Friday, February 16, 2018
commteam@muc.xmpp.org
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Submissions for the newsletter: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/News_and_Articles_for_the_next_XMPP_Newsletter

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[06:08:04] <Seve> One of my questions is if this can be done from the XSF or it has to be done as something independent/
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[08:36:22] <jcbrand> Do you guys have any suggestions for the name of the newsletter?
[08:37:42] <jcbrand> About online copies, I'm thinking of creating a Jekyll blog/website, with each blog entry being the newsletter instalment. AFAIK this can be done, so we'll then get a website (which we control) and a newsletter.
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[08:41:01] <Seve> My question is related to that. Because if it was under the XSF, we could have it somewhere like xmpp.org/newsletter
[08:41:19] <Seve> but if it's not related to the XSF at all, then we have to set up something smewhere
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[09:03:44] <jcbrand> Well, when it was asked whether the Comms team should be resurrected as an official team, Kev (IIRC) said no (at least for now)
[09:04:34] <SaltyBones> Guus said he would happily take pull request for xmpp.org
[09:04:40] <SaltyBones> Guus said he would happily take pull requests for xmpp.org
[09:05:34] <SaltyBones> Guus said he would happily take pull requests for xmpp.org ( https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org )
[09:06:46] <jcbrand> I'll talk to Guus about it
[09:06:58] <jcbrand> The XSF is quite bureaucratic sometimes
[09:07:23] <jcbrand> I'm not sure I want to make a pull request every time a newsletter is sent out
[09:07:30] <jcbrand> Especially if the newsletter gets generated from the blog post
[09:07:49] <SaltyBones> jcbrand, neither do I think you should, just wanted to relay the information
[09:08:01] <jcbrand> sure, it's good to know
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[09:34:14] <Guus> jcbrand will have xmpp.org commit rights in three, two, one...
[09:34:23] <Guus> or, perhaps, the entire comms team?
[09:34:47] <Seve> o/
[09:44:05] <jcbrand> xmpp.org uses a static site generator (Pelican) to generate its content.
[09:44:33] <jcbrand> I'd like to check out the xmpp.org repo and see whether I can generate posts under /newsletter which will then be the newsletter installments
[09:45:01] <jcbrand> I think it might even be possible to have tinyletter.com send out HTML emails based on content from xmpp.org/newsletter
[09:46:02] <jcbrand> That way, we have the newsletter hosted on xmpp.org and sent out via emails
[09:46:05] <Seve> That would be nice if it can be automated, so just write the post and be sent :D
[09:46:44] <jcbrand> I think it can, I'm just wary of HTML emails, since it's apparently very difficult to test that they render properly in all clients
[09:46:52] <jcbrand> So the emails' HTML must be very simple IMO
[09:47:24] <jcbrand> So you'd need to render one set of HTML for xmpp.org/newsletter, and different HTML for the email
[09:47:45] <jcbrand> Guus will help us officially ressurrect
[09:47:51] <Guus> To facilitate this effort (and hopefully other efforts related to the XSF providing outwards communication) I suggest that you guys ask Board for the Communications Work Team to be (re)created. It was disbanded, if I recall correctly. When we have a CommsWT again, we can easily define that its members should have access to the tools needed for their activities (permission on the corresponding github repos, access to our social media accounts, etc).
[09:48:15] <jcbrand> Guus: how do we ask?
[09:48:33] <Seve> I agree, yes.
[09:48:40] <Guus> The most pragmatic way to do this is to request this on the members mailing list - including a charter that defines the mission statement.
[09:49:14] <SaltyBones> Seems easier to just give rights to jc and make changes go through him.
[09:49:32] <SaltyBones> #cuttheredtape
[09:49:44] <Guus> That will give other members the ability to pitch in on the idea (maybe others have suggestions), and will give me an explicit request to bring for the board.
[09:50:04] <Seve> SaltyBones, that's lazy!
[09:50:07] <Seve> :P
[09:50:19] <Seve> Guus, do you know why the previous team was disbanded?
[09:50:25] <Seve> And what were their 'goals'?
[09:50:26] <SaltyBones> Seve, no, that's pragmatic and efficient. :p
[09:50:34] <Guus> SaltyBones: although I agree that the tape is annoying, there are many members that feel comfortable with it. On top of that, I don't want to depend on any one person, if I can.
[09:51:13] <Guus> Seve, it was disbanded for a lack of activity, iirc. I think at one point, it was just nyco, who didn't get any support.
[09:51:42] <Guus> SaltyBones: to prevent endless discussions of why we need or need not have red tape, the pragmatic approach in XSF sadly is to follow the tape. :)
[09:51:59] <SaltyBones> Guus, ...I can't even. ;)
[09:52:15] <Guus> also, I'm perfectly willing to assist here - should be fairly straightforward.
[09:52:17] <SaltyBones> We don't XMPP2 we need XSF2. :p
[09:52:42] <Seve> I'm lost now. What does the tape expression mean?
[09:52:50] <Seve> (sorry for the offtopic)
[09:53:03] <SaltyBones> Seve, "red tape" is an expression for annoying processes that have to be followed
[09:53:28] <SaltyBones> It's an even more negative term for bureaucracy ;)
[09:53:32] <Guus> red tape is a metaphore for 'annoying bureaucratic processes'
[09:54:14] <Guus> my advice on that within the XSF: go with it. It's actually not so bad if you avoid the discussions on why we have them in the first place.
[09:54:17] <jcbrand> I agree that's it's better to have a team instead of relying on one person
[09:54:46] <jcbrand> It helps with transferring knowledge and avoiding a low bus factor
[09:54:57] <jcbrand> And it helps prevent burnout if the load is shared
[09:55:29] <Guus> exactly. That said, you can formally define whatever set of work teams that you want: the entire effort stands or falls with having people actually doing the legwork.
[09:55:29] <jcbrand> Also, if multiple people have access to the newsletter source, they can help craft it before it gets sent out
[09:55:41] <Seve> Well, based on my experience on struggling to find time to do something else except work and personal stuff, I know jcbrand will not be able to do it always, so the more people that can help out the better, I think.
[09:55:42] <jcbrand> Don't skip leg day
[09:55:51] <jcbrand> yes
[09:56:04] <jcbrand> I also don't want to be solely responsible
[09:56:20] <Guus> I think we're in agreement?
[09:57:08] <jcbrand> We can wait a bit for others in the list to state objections if they have any
[09:57:14] <jcbrand> in the MUC I mean
[09:57:22] <Guus> here's the old wiki page for comms: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/CommTeam
[09:57:52] <Guus> jcbrand, I'd take this to the members list, and let people object to a specific proposal to reinstate the work team.
[09:58:15] <jcbrand> yes, are you saying literally you, or are you suggesting that it be done?
[09:58:54] <jcbrand> I agree with writing to the members list, I just thought we might want to hear from Daniel_W and nyco
[09:58:55] <Guus> I'd be happy to draft the text with you, but I think it'd be good if we have someone else than me spearheading this.
[09:59:06] <jcbrand> I'm happy to send out the email
[09:59:12] <jcbrand> so we're all happy
[09:59:14] <jcbrand> which is good ;)
[09:59:30] <Guus> I shall make my bliss complete by getting another cup of coffee then! :)
[09:59:32] <jcbrand> I agree it should come from someone within the proposed comms team
[10:01:19] <Guus> ok, lets do it :)
[10:01:45] <Seve> I have a question but I was not sure if I should say this out loud.
I wanted to do something like 'In today's What can I do with XMPP?: Message corrections' and explain a little bit the XEP in a practical way, (maybe just for users, not sure yet), and including maybe clients supporting this and that. Would thes be possible under the XSF and would this fit this team or...?
[10:01:55] <Seve> Because I thought the CommTeam would be something to promote XMPP in some way
[10:01:59] <Seve> But this is not clear for me
[10:02:05] <Seve> `The team's mission is to continuously improve the editorial quality of written, spoken, and visual materials produced by the XMPP Standards Foundation. `
[10:03:43] <SaltyBones> Seve, I think that would be great.
[10:04:32] <SaltyBones> Since this is going to be mostly links you can actually do anything as long as you do it somewhere else. Then we can just link to it.
[10:05:06] <SaltyBones> Linking to a "why gajim is trash" post would not even mean that we support this position or anything.
[10:05:21] <Guus> (note that there's no requirement to retain the previous charter. If you want to change it for the new team, go for it)
[10:05:26] <SaltyBones> So I think it's safe and any content you want to produce would be awesome.
[10:08:11] <Seve> I just say that because I wanted to see how this goes in order to understand if I could fit in the team or not. I would like to help on something but I'm a very very bad communicator. My skills for that are not good (starting with my english), so that's why I was afraid at saying "Count me in".
But depending on what...
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[10:09:25] <guus.der.kinderen> Seve, don't worry
[10:09:35] <guus.der.kinderen> Go for it
[10:21:08] <Guus> hey, mobile me
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[10:21:47] <Guus> there, we are one now.
[10:22:27] <Seve> Well, what do you guys think about it, then?
[10:29:07] <Seve> How do you guys see the Work team? What would be the goal? I would like to understand this, if possible. Do you see it as a group of people that promotes XMPP? Do you see it as what the previous work team said `improve the editorial quality of materials`? Or how do you see it?
[10:30:16] <Guus> I'd suggest something like this: "The Communcation Work Team primary goal is to facilitate the production and distribution of audio/visual media on behalf of the XSF and its mission. This can includes, but need not belimited to, management of the XSF Blog, website, newsletter and social media accounts."
[10:30:54] <Guus> that probably can be improved upon
[10:34:39] <jcbrand> Seve: I'm writing the email to the members list now
[10:35:34] <jcbrand> IMO the goal is informing the people who are interested in XMPP news about what's happening within the XMPP world
[10:35:42] <jcbrand> Simple as that
[10:35:51] <jcbrand> How it's done can be left up to the comms team members
[10:36:01] <Seve> jcbrand, please count me in
[10:36:16] <jcbrand> But there are some obvious tools, like the newsletter, social media, blogging etc.
[10:42:07] <jcbrand> Seve: ok!
[10:46:13] <Seve> Greaat! :D
[10:47:13] <Guus> it's good to see this springing back in action guys! thanks!
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[11:12:11] <jcbrand> I've sent out the email
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[12:58:32] <Seve> Thank you very muc for writing the email, jcbrand :)
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[13:04:49] <SaltyBones> class xmpp saying
[13:04:52] <SaltyBones> thank you very muc
[13:05:50] *Seve laughs :D
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[13:14:18] <Guus> I didn't even spot that... :)
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[22:43:33] <Neustradamus> Whaouuuuu jc jcbrand, good news to read you ;)
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