XSF logo XSF Communications Team - 2019-09-10


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  16. nyco I am scheduling the tweets it is a good practice to remind and publish multiple times on Twitter
  17. nyco please all review: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Basic_communication_guide_for_XMPP_techies
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  21. pep. I like it. Probably some phrases to change but I think that's good advice.
  22. pep. I'm really not good at illustrations though, and I'd rather not waste time on it if I can :x
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  24. ralphm nyco: well, I think there a lot of people that find such repetition quite annoying (like me). Especially if there's nothing in between.
  25. tom it's horrible. we gotta start over from scratch and rewrite it in rust
  26. jcbrand ralphm: agreed.
  27. jcbrand I generally unfollow accounts that do that
  28. jcbrand At least that do it in an obvious and annoying easy
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  31. ralphm Indeed
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  35. pep. I'm happy not to be on Twitter
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  43. Nÿco the people in this room are not targeted, obvioulsy
  44. Ge0rG So I'd like to channel the discussion about the usage of the @xmpp twitter account into here.
  45. Ge0rG ralphm: IIRC you had a comment on that as well?
  46. Ge0rG Nÿco: ping :)
  47. Nÿco ping what?
  48. Nÿco why the smiley?
  49. Nÿco hey commTeam, we are quite passive here, wanna stay that way?
  50. Ge0rG Nÿco: I agree that we need to make some noise, but in the form of actual content and not just by spamming slightly-related word-lists
  51. Nÿco some tweets do not kill a few repetitions on Twitter is a must, because once posted, a tweet is drown and forgotten
  52. Ge0rG If there is an article about XMPP, or a newsletter, fire it out! If there is none: write an article and tweet it
  53. Ge0rG Nÿco: I'm actually reading all my Twitter timeline.
  54. Nÿco that's your opinion: it is advise and a good, proven practice to promote newsletter for a week, via a few tweets, showing/summarising different parts of the content
  55. Nÿco you're welcome
  56. Ge0rG cross-posting from xsf@, as it is publically archived: <Guus>  Are we intentionally sending out repeated newsletter tweets? It is starting to get annoying. <Guus>  nyco are you triggering these? Maybe cut down on the frequency?
  57. Nÿco you do read the whole thing, most people don't again you're not targeted here
  58. Ge0rG Nÿco: our feed reads like a hyperactive ADHD teenager.
  59. Nÿco again your opinion
  60. Nÿco and that's not nice to say
  61. Nÿco and who is "our"
  62. Nÿco ?
  63. Ge0rG Nÿco: @xmpp
  64. Nÿco oh our, what have you done for it?
  65. Nÿco next time, let's schedule together the tweets, ok?
  66. Nÿco quite sure you agree on the checklist: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/News_and_Articles_for_the_next_XMPP_Newsletter#Newsletter_editors:_TODO.2Fchecklist
  67. Ge0rG Nÿco: I do agree on the checklist, yes. But I don't see "make five tweets for one newsletter" there.
  68. Nÿco five is ok, all are different, each have likes/retweets from different accounts
  69. Nÿco it is working...
  70. Nÿco not for you, and for a few members, I have heard and understood
  71. Ge0rG Nÿco: sorry for my frustration, but you were disappeared from XMPP and still tweeting, and apparently nobody was able to reach out to you.
  72. Nÿco this burst is not meant for you
  73. Nÿco nobody tried
  74. Nÿco your frustration must not translate in burst of misplaced opinions and aggressivity
  75. Nÿco I have heard what a handful of the inner circle are complaining about I anticipated it I took the risk so far, it pays off
  76. Ge0rG Nÿco: okay, please let me focus and rephrase my criticism. The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO. For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097 is listing a bunch of XMPP implementations and a link to the subscription page (not even to the newsletter), and most of the implementations aren't even covered by the last newsletter.
  77. Nÿco > The twitter wave really looks like cheap SEO. Twitter is "cheap" It is NOT SEO, does not contribute to it
  78. Ge0rG Just because Google isn't indexing twitter?
  79. Nÿco > For example, https://twitter.com/xmpp/status/1169145821704708097 5 people not in the inner circle have liked it, contributing to its amplification proofs by the number, not any opinion
  80. Nÿco I hear you, do you hear me?
  81. Ge0rG Nÿco: how many people stopped following @xmpp since september 3rd?
  82. Nÿco and we have two new newsletter subscribers, which is low
  83. Nÿco I don't know, do you?
  84. Nÿco and *WHO* would have unfollowed AND followed? number are important here, indeed, but also who we target
  85. Ge0rG Nÿco: you should
  86. Nÿco should whatN
  87. Ge0rG Nÿco: you should know how many people stopped following on twitter.
  88. Nÿco reach out, touch people outside our community, expand
  89. Nÿco you should too
  90. Nÿco as you should contribute to the newsletter and tweets
  91. Ge0rG Nÿco: no. I'm not the one doing risky campaigns.
  92. Nÿco after all, you are a product manker and should know how to promote
  93. Nÿco you risk even more not doing anything
  94. Nÿco and the risk is your opinion, again
  95. Ge0rG Nÿco: you did a campaign. Fine. You didn't align with the commteam. Not so fine. You didn't even measure the negative impact. Not fine at all.
  96. Nÿco I have the account, I will get numbers
  97. Ge0rG Nÿco: that would be awesome
  98. Nÿco the commTeam did nothing
  99. Nÿco did you measure?
  100. Nÿco enough... :'(
  101. Nÿco dormant accounts show a wrong image
  102. Nÿco a few repetitions are at worst some kind of annoying
  103. Ge0rG Nÿco: please don't get me wrong. It's really great to increase our outreach, and to do experiments, but when we do so, we should know the pros as well as the cons
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  105. Nÿco our survival is at stake here
  106. Ge0rG Nÿco: yes, but what do you gain if 100 people unsubscribe because they think it is spamming, and only 10 new people subscribe at the same time?
  107. Nÿco if it is great, then so be it, end of discussion, no need to thank me
  108. Nÿco when I try to get feedback before doing something I got at best a "yeah, cool" and that's it
  109. Nÿco teh commTeam is not active, I know, I contributed to create it years ago
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  111. Nÿco number and WHO, again, "WHO" is important 100 XSF members unfollow? good! 10 new key developers and decision makers? FAR BETTER!!!
  112. Nÿco while we argue, I can't search the analytics
  113. Nÿco https://analytics.twitter.com/
  114. Ge0rG Nÿco: who can?
  115. Nÿco let me check
  116. Nÿco btw, I have improved my spreadsheet regarding the newsletter
  117. Nÿco https://movim.eu:5280/upload/1ab8cd5d50a081e2fdf8ce43dca3047f8bd49889/XJSI6xSnciPpYpG43zrpH8t0goFs4Zx6Tu7GjQRf/Capture_d_e_cran_2019-09-10_a__16.15.10.png
  118. Ge0rG Nÿco: is the above chart the number of subscriptions?
  119. Nÿco yep
  120. Nÿco JC's accomplishments, congrats and thanks to him
  121. Nÿco I only contributing most links, and a few copywriting
  122. Nÿco JC did setup the newsletter and blog post habits
  123. Nÿco so I can't find the @xmpp password: someone, I can't know who, added me to Tweetdeck so I can post
  124. Nÿco analytics are available to the ones possessing the password
  125. Nÿco some individual public numbers of available on each tweet
  126. Nÿco if you got the account, individual tweets have the full funnel
  127. Nÿco analytics website is a high-level view
  128. Nÿco generally, you need more than Twitter's analytics
  129. Nÿco you need to gather and aggregate all your channels
  130. Nÿco I'd say LinkedIn is a good channel
  131. Nÿco it is worthwhile to invest it
  132. Ge0rG Do you have to pay for linkedin?
  133. Nÿco pleas note: on LinkedIn it is not acceptable to post multiple times about a blog post, due to post retention and natural amplification on Twitter it is different and due to the fire-and-forget nature of that platform
  134. Nÿco nope
  135. Nÿco how come can you not know that, and criticise the communication effort made? either you know how to promote or not
  136. Nÿco https://www.linkedin.com/company/xmpp-standards-foundation/about/
  137. Nÿco who does it belong to?
  138. Nÿco on Twitter, individual and company/organisations have similar accounts
  139. Nÿco on LinkedIn, both have different nature, and thus it is harder for an org to promote content, still possible
  140. Nÿco on a FB page for example, it is almost impossible
  141. Nÿco btw, it has been mentionned that we could fusion commeTeam and SCAM, as there is common
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  143. Nÿco sorry, correction: 7 new subscribers on the newsletter since latest one published my bad
  144. Nÿco I was looking at the new subscribers since last time I checked, on sep 9
  145. Nÿco in other words: we gained 16 new subscribers doing nothing during 2 months we gained 7 new subscribers, posting the latest and tweeting
  146. Nÿco unfortunately, we don't know where the new subscribers are coming from... unless, we have analytics on our website
  147. Ge0rG Nÿco: it looks like we don't have analytics on the website
  148. Nÿco later, at the end of the month, I'll schedule a few tweets: * promote the newsletter, encourage people to subscribe before the next one is sent * call for contributions, so makers can promote their work
  149. Nÿco that's a shame, I'd blame no one, cause I know...
  150. Ge0rG Nÿco: both of these goals are worthy, and maybe they can fit into a single tweet? ;)
  151. Nÿco I propose to schedule tweets on the wiki so it's transparent
  152. Nÿco no they can't, different goals, different targets
  153. Nÿco the likers/retweters will be different
  154. Ge0rG Interesting point.
  155. Ge0rG Nÿco: maybe we need different twitter accounts then? One for developers, one for... dunno?
  156. Nÿco note: I have promoted the XMPP newsletter in a company's newsletter, contributing probably a few hits and no new subscribers
  157. Nÿco sure, what would be your segmentation? who would take care of the different accounts?
  158. Nÿco I'd go for LinkedIn first
  159. Ge0rG Nÿco: The Matrix is doing a weekly "This week in matrix" video podcast. How about that? ;)
  160. Nÿco no go
  161. pep. We can reuse the idea, but not enough content for that
  162. Nÿco we don't have the content, we don't have the resources
  163. pep. Yeah, both
  164. Nÿco I will not do it, too much effort
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  166. pep. If developers would write more about their projects, maybe
  167. pep. *were to write more
  168. Nÿco YES PLEASE: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Basic_communication_guide_for_XMPP_techies
  169. Ge0rG I hardly managed to write the ten-years-of-yaxim blog post in time
  170. Nÿco and that was great
  171. Nÿco thx
  172. ralphm A for the question on who admin's the XMPP Standards Foundation organization over at LinkedIn, that's Neustradamus. I've asked him to hand it over to me (and I'd in turn hand it over to commteam), but so far he hasn't.
  173. Nÿco one of the best article of the summer!
  174. pep. Nÿco, I have seen that yes, I also should write stuff
  175. Ge0rG It was not half as great as I wanted it to be
  176. Nÿco we should all write, we must write, we have no choice
  177. pep. Ge0rG, write about your current efforts on MAM? :)
  178. Nÿco it is greater published than in someone's head
  179. Ge0rG pep.: that would be a technical blog post on my personal blog that's not on the planet
  180. Nÿco I confess I do not blog about Nayego neither
  181. pep. Better than nothing, it can still be linked on the newsletter
  182. Ge0rG Nÿco: do you know that old saying? "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach"
  183. Nÿco I do not agree with that, but that's funny :)
  184. Nÿco done is better than perfect
  185. Ge0rG Nÿco: yeah
  186. SouL Hey guys, I would like to thank you both for discussing this, I'm super glad about Nÿco putting all this effort, I think it is important to state that. I'm short on time this week, but I would like to get up to speed with him and try to align the CommTeam on this matters, like scheduled tweets and so on. I feel I would like to discuss about how frequent the Newsletter is sent out and such stuff, but can't right now. I will follow the conversations and say something later today/this week
  187. Ge0rG my last tech-post on xmpp is from 2017
  188. Nÿco https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Twitter_scheduling
  189. Nÿco align what commTeam?
  190. Ge0rG Nÿco: to make a constructive proposal: if there is no new content (i.e. blog post / newsletter), limit twitter posts to one per week
  191. Ge0rG retweets don't count into that of course
  192. Nÿco there are doers, and others
  193. Nÿco no
  194. Nÿco one tweet per week is not enough in a period of news, like a newsletter
  195. Nÿco 3 per week is cool
  196. Ge0rG Nÿco: 3 per day is also cool, if there is actual new content
  197. Nÿco please discuss frequency and content, I will listen and adapt, but please get to speed first
  198. ralphm Could we maybe use what's coming in for the next newsletter and have Tweets on those when they come in?
  199. Nÿco note: thinking out loud on the newsletter, maybe we should split the specs from the other content, like we used to do for the roundup
  200. ralphm I think people would be less annoyed by repeats if there's stuff in between.
  201. Nÿco assumption again, ready to listen
  202. Nÿco again, people annoyed here are not the targets
  203. ralphm Ok, let me rephrase that: *I* would be less annoyed.
  204. Nÿco if those people unfollow, then it is not a problem
  205. Nÿco yep, correct :)
  206. Nÿco if the communities feel like we are reviving the "defunct XMPP", then good
  207. Nÿco 1k+ follower is not where we should be
  208. Ge0rG Nÿco: so let's check how many people stopped following on twitter since the last newsletter
  209. Nÿco I can't, said that, repeating
  210. Ge0rG vs. how many started
  211. Ge0rG Nÿco: yes, but maybe ralphm can
  212. Nÿco again, again, again, not how many, but who followed/unfollowed more important: who has been reached
  213. Nÿco message in a bottle: we need analytics, both Twitter and the website
  214. Ge0rG Nÿco: we can't measure the *who*, but we can measure the *how many*
  215. Nÿco Twitter alone is not enough, I repeat
  216. ralphm Ge0rG: I don't know if I can keep track of number of followers on @xmpp.
  217. Ge0rG analytics only make sense if we have somebody look at them
  218. Nÿco yes, you can, with unfollowers products
  219. Ge0rG ralphm: do you have the login credentials?
  220. SouL >align what commTeam? Let's stay calm Nÿco, jcbrand you and me are active (as in we are very reachable online), just need to write down tasks and check what can we do.
  221. Ge0rG ralphm: maybe you can see it on https://analytics.twitter.com then?
  222. Nÿco feeling pressure and aggression
  223. Nÿco let's ALL calm, no only me (and you're welcome)
  224. ralphm I'm not sure who has credentials. I might have had credentials to a thing that allowed me to post.
  225. ralphm But I forget what it is named
  226. Ge0rG ralphm: something-i-team-something?
  227. ralphm I am not on iteam
  228. Ge0rG Nÿco: would it be ok to move the wiki twitter pages to under /CommTeam/?
  229. Nÿco sure, please do, and the original link
  230. ralphm Nÿco: no aggression intended, I just wanted to state how I felt when seeing those tweets come in.
  231. Nÿco that is what I feel, no one can deny this
  232. Ge0rG Nÿco: wiki does that automatically
  233. Nÿco good
  234. Ge0rG Nÿco: https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/CommTeam/Twitter_scheduling
  235. SouL >let's ALL calm, no only me (and you're welcome) Don't take it wrong :( I'm happy to have you working hard here
  236. Nÿco does not look that way: "we will align", looks like you are correcting my, condescending teacher
  237. Nÿco let's align what' to be aligned
  238. Nÿco if there is a team, then let's align it
  239. Nÿco let's not slow down contributions, rather encourage them, and help people get up to speed
  240. Nÿco I see a lot of help on the git
  241. Nÿco I will help regarding social media
  242. Nÿco but I won't tell anyone how to use git
  243. SouL Ok then I'm sorry
  244. Ge0rG Nÿco, SouL: it would be great if you could tag all the commteam-relevant pages with [[Category:CommTeam]]
  245. Ge0rG in the wiki
  246. Nÿco good idea, if there is a need, seems like premature optim to me, but I may be wrong
  247. Nÿco https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/CommTeam/Twitter_scheduling#Template
  248. Nÿco added my intentions, I will fill later
  249. Nÿco to all: good for transparency and collaboration, I double-approve but it is much much more work: copy, paste, adapt, download, upload...
  250. Nÿco goota go, kids cannot wait
  251. Nÿco thx all for this discussion, I feel like the collab might take off
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