Monday, April 12, 2010
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[11:03:46] <Fritzy> Kev: feel like making me a moderator?
[11:13:33] <Kev> Nope.
[11:13:47] <Kev> I don't think Prosody does moderators atm.
[11:13:57] <Kev> Or, well, not admins, anyway.
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[12:57:31] <ralphm> hello fans!
[12:57:42] <Kev> Howdy.
[12:57:45] <Fritzy> ralphm: are you saying we blow?
[12:57:57] <Kev> ralphm: please sign up as a mentor for gsoc.
[12:58:12] <Kev> http://socghop.appspot.com
[12:58:14] <ralphm> Fritzy: nah ;-)
[12:58:39] <ralphm> Kev: unlikely
[12:59:39] <Kev> It's your Council-ly duty to vote on the apps :p
[13:00:13] <ralphm> Kev: do I need to be a mentor for that?
[13:00:32] <ralphm> i.e. I sign up but not actually be a mentor?
[13:00:48] <Kev> You need to have the mentor flag set in the application.
[13:00:59] <Kev> You don't have to mentor a project
[13:01:03] <ralphm> right
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[13:02:22] <Kev> Blimey, everyone who's coming is here before 7.
[13:02:43] <Kev> Best leave it a minute for spectators to turn up, anyway
[13:03:55] <Kev> And we're there, let's start.
[13:03:57] <Kev> 1) Roll call.
[13:04:07] <Kev> Kev, Nathan, Matt, Ralph here.
[13:04:14] <ralphm> woot
[13:04:15] <Kev> Remko sends apologies, as does Peter.
[13:04:17] <MattJ> (/me saves a comment about thinking Prosody doesn't do MUC admins for later :) )
[13:04:44] <Kev> 2) Agenda bashing?
[13:04:58] <Kev> I have some, but I guess I can manage that myself.
[13:05:08] <Fritzy> not this time
[13:05:32] <Kev> 3) XEP-0060 : Publish-Subscribe
Accept version 1.13? http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0060-1.13.html
Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0060/diff/1.12/vs/1.13rc15
[13:05:47] <ralphm> I started a complete review of the changes
[13:06:11] <Fritzy> There's at least one error in the spec. In particular publish-only should not be able to configure the node as indicated.
[13:06:19] <ralphm> I do have some comments
[13:06:49] <ralphm> publish-only sounds like an odd thing
[13:06:56] <Fritzy> do I need to vote -1 in order to get such a correction in there?
[13:07:06] <Kev> Fritzy: that would be usual.
[13:08:01] <Kev> I'm -1 because of the config bug, but only because of that, I believe.
[13:08:05] <ralphm> I didn't notice before that publisher information (section 7.1.2.3) is not in SHIM, but in an attribute
[13:08:19] <Fritzy> ralphm: I've been doing thinking about publish-only, and I do see use cases for it.
[13:08:33] <MattJ> Likewise
[13:08:41] <ralphm> Fritzy: really? If you just get another JID you /can/ subscribe?
[13:08:55] <ralphm> or would it be useful if you have a non-open node?
[13:08:58] <Fritzy> ralphm: only potentially -- depends on the auth model.
[13:08:59] <MattJ> ralphm, the latter
[13:09:11] <Fritzy> right
[13:09:14] <ralphm> ok
[13:09:20] <ralphm> I'm not against it
[13:09:24] <ralphm> just wondering
[13:09:25] <Kev> ralphm: the use case suggested (back in September last year!) when this was added was for stuff like myfacefriendsnet
[13:09:47] <Kev> Where you'll allow some service to put photos in your photo stream, but not read what else is there.
[13:09:57] <ralphm> Kev: the temporal aspect is not too important for me :-)
[13:10:03] <Fritzy> contributing to a vote/suggestion box would be another use case.
[13:10:10] <Kev> Right.
[13:10:27] <Fritzy> cool, we're all in agreement then
[13:10:56] <ralphm> ok, but then maybe it should be explained more a bit, that it's only useful with a non-open node
[13:10:57] <Kev> I admit I'm much happier with IQ gone from this.
[13:11:03] <ralphm> Kev: indeed
[13:11:19] <Kev> ralphm: it could be, but equally if you choose to use it, you probably have a use case.
[13:11:21] <ralphm> I'm a bit curious about the removal of batch options
[13:11:23] <Fritzy> -1 due to the ability for publish-only affiliations to configure the node.
[13:11:38] <Kev> The XEP doesn't *need* to tell people why they might use it ;)
[13:11:39] <ralphm> because it is unclear what happens for earlier clients
[13:11:56] <Kev> I'm +1 once the config thing is fixed (so -1 for the few hours it'll take Peter to fix that :))
[13:12:15] <ralphm> Kev: then it can be added as a security concern, for open nodes
[13:12:20] <Fritzy> ralphm: maybe that's prep work for the iq thing?
[13:12:23] <Kev> ralphm: that's fair.
[13:12:36] <Kev> ralphm / MattJ: are you voting tonight,or onlist?
[13:12:43] <Fritzy> was batch only removed to make iq delivery easier?
[13:12:49] <ralphm> Fritzy: I don't mind the removal per se, but I'm unsure what older clients would do
[13:13:04] <ralphm> they would basically fail and have no useful fallback without recoding
[13:13:22] <MattJ> Kev, I think I'm +1, but I wanted to re-read, so I'll vote on-list ASAP
[13:13:31] <Kev> OK.
[13:13:43] <Kev> ralphm: were you voting tonight or on-list?
[13:13:49] <ralphm> on-list
[13:13:52] <Kev> OK.
[13:13:53] <ralphm> I have some more comments
[13:14:02] <ralphm> here or on list?
[13:14:02] <Kev> 4) XEP-0163: PEP
Accept version 1.2? http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0163-1.2.html
Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0163/diff/1.1/vs/1.2rc4
[13:14:38] <Fritzy> +1
[13:14:47] <MattJ> +1 also
[13:14:54] <ralphm> I'm +1 on XEP-0163
[13:14:55] <Kev> I was +1 on this last time around, so I imagine I'm +1 now too :)
[13:14:59] <Kev> Excellent.
[13:15:02] <Kev> 5) GSoC
[13:15:36] <Kev> Not much to say - all of Council are mentors now, I've asked Jack to make sure Board all sign up, and we've put a few project people through, if they have applications for those projects.
[13:15:58] <Kev> I'll be sending a mail in a little bit to ask people to start voting on the proposals. I think that's it.
[13:16:40] <Kev> 6) Next meeting.
[13:16:43] <Kev> Same time next week?
[13:17:06] <ralphm> yeah
[13:17:09] <Fritzy> sure
[13:17:13] <Kev> Good enough for me.
[13:17:15] <Kev> 7) AOB?
[13:17:24] <ralphm> Welcome Fritzy!
[13:17:31] <Fritzy> Thanks. :)
[13:17:37] <Kev> Ah yes, that.
[13:17:47] <MattJ> Yes, welcome :)
[13:17:49] <Kev> Thanks to Fritzy for joining the madhouse.
[13:18:30] <Kev> So, we're done then, I think.
[13:18:31] <Fritzy> I'm really excited to a part of this!
[13:18:33] <Kev> Thanks all.
[13:18:36] <Fritzy> cool. ciao
[13:18:37] *Kev bangs the gavel.
[13:18:42] <ralphm> thanks all!
[13:18:48] <Kev> I'll write up some minutes and send them out at some point before too long.
[13:19:05] <Fritzy> Until we meet again.
[13:19:19] <MattJ> Kev, have you tried making people MUC admins? If it fails, it shouldn't
[13:19:48] <Kev> No, I just thought we couldn't do it for some reason.
[13:20:07] <ralphm> Kev: can you edit the room config?
[13:20:12] <MattJ> None that I know - just lacking automatically making service admins owners
[13:20:52] <MattJ> Oh
[13:20:53] <Kev> ralphm: I can, why?
[13:20:59] <ralphm> (as that's another way of adding moderators)
[13:21:00] <Kev> It's an extensive configuration.
[13:21:00] <MattJ> Whatever happened to the hats proposal?
[13:21:10] <Kev> MUC 3.0
[13:21:21] <MattJ> Simplicity is key :)
[13:21:23] <ralphm> MattJ: It needs to be written up still
[13:21:38] <Kev> Someone should sort that out. I don't think I have time, although I'd love to do so.
[13:21:39] <ralphm> I haven't gotten hold of hildjj yet
[13:21:48] <ralphm> but I haven't tried very hard lately
[13:22:10] <MattJ> It would help pubsub too at this point, it seems :)
[13:22:17] <ralphm> MattJ: yeah
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