Monday, June 14, 2010
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[13:03:41] <Kev> Evening.
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[13:04:38] <Fritzy> Thanks for the poke.
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[13:05:03] <ralphm> hi
[13:05:19] <Kev> Matt's on his way, and Remko's online.
[13:05:25] <Kev> And now Remko's on his way.
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[13:05:45] <MattJ> Sorry, had my head down in a release :)
[13:05:54] <Fritzy> Congrats, Matt.
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[13:06:01] <Kev> Know what that feels like.
[13:06:03] <Kev> Well, betas anyway.
[13:06:07] <Kev> Full house!
[13:06:09] <remko> hi all!
[13:06:41] <remko> powerrr!
[13:06:49] <MattJ> :)
[13:06:50] <Kev> Shiny new JID, Matt?
[13:07:00] <Fritzy> so, when're we upgrading xmpp:xmpp.org?
[13:07:07] <Kev> 1) Roll call.
All present.
[13:07:18] <MattJ> I've been using this for some time, it depends which Gajim decides to use to join the a new MUC :)
[13:07:31] <Kev> 2) Agenda bashing?
[13:07:35] <MattJ> None here
[13:07:38] <Kev> I've poked Peter in case he'd like to join.
[13:07:52] <Fritzy> nodda
[13:08:24] <Kev> He doesn't seem to be about on his public account though, so I imagine he's head-down with something, and his presence isn't mandatory :)
[13:08:44] <Kev> I confess I've not reviewed much for Council today, and'll be voting on list.
[13:08:46] <Kev> 3) XEP-0124: BOSH
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0124-1.10.html
Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0124/diff/1.9/vs/1.10rc1
[13:08:51] <Kev> Accept new version?
[13:09:13] <remko> same here, i'll vote on list
[13:09:15] <Fritzy> I'll vote on list
[13:09:32] <ralphm> +1
[13:09:53] <Fritzy> looks like it's just jabber.org -> example.com
[13:10:11] <ralphm> and scram instead of DIGEST-MD5
[13:10:13] <MattJ> +1
[13:10:30] <Kev> I see other changes.
[13:10:41] <Kev> But they seem to be wordsmithing.
[13:10:44] <Kev> 4) XEP-0206: XMPP Over BOSH
http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0206-1.3.html
Diff: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0206/diff/1.2/vs/1.3rc1

Accept new version?
[13:10:49] <MattJ> Hmm, there was meant to be a 'restartlogic' attribute somewhere, I don't see it
[13:10:50] <ralphm> yeah, the changelog only mentions restartlogic stuff
[13:10:53] <MattJ> Maybe next version :)
[13:10:55] <ralphm> see section 4
[13:11:10] <MattJ> The diff shows no changes in section 4
[13:11:16] <ralphm> in 206
[13:11:30] <MattJ> Whoops :P
[13:11:43] <ralphm> they are just released together
[13:11:51] <ralphm> +1 by the way
[13:12:10] <Kev> Matt, Remko, Fritzy?
[13:12:18] <Fritzy> list on this as well
[13:12:24] <remko> dito
[13:12:26] <Fritzy> I'll go through it today.
[13:12:29] <MattJ> I'd like to say I don't find 'restartlogic' an explanatory name, but +1
[13:12:44] <Kev> 5) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sxe.html

Accept as Experimental?
[13:12:59] <ralphm> I have some notes on this
[13:13:00] <Kev> I need to read this again.
[13:13:19] <Fritzy> it's been awhile
[13:13:20] <ralphm> I wonder why it doesn't establish a more generic p2p stream, like the xep we have for that
[13:13:22] <MattJ> I need to read it again, but I looked at it not long ago
[13:13:31] <remko> i ned to read it too, but i don't -1 against making it experimental
[13:13:42] <MattJ> Has anyone mentioned Infinote: http://infinote.org/ ?
[13:13:58] <Kev> ralphm: Is that "I'm going to to -1 it and make comments" or "Ok, and I'll post comments", or "I'll postcoments and veto/notveto later"?
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[13:14:14] <MattJ> It seems like there's some duplication that may be going on here (perhaps that's not terrible)
[13:14:33] <ralphm> I meant XEP-0246
[13:14:39] <ralphm> no a strong +1
[13:14:51] <MattJ> Though Infinote is geared towards just text documents, where-as I understand SXE is aiming above that
[13:15:03] <ralphm> just wanted to get this out, before I forget
[13:15:05] <MattJ> They just seem related
[13:15:07] <Fritzy> right -- any XML based document.
[13:15:11] <ralphm> so it could be in the notes
[13:15:20] <Kev> I probably need to read up on operational transforms at some point.
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[13:15:47] <stpeter> sorry about that
[13:15:48] <Kev> Evening Peter.
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[13:16:21] <Kev> Ok, so we'll wait for everyone's comments on list, apart from Ralph who's in favour.
[13:16:23] <stpeter> I was so focused that I missed your IM
[13:16:25] <Fritzy> I'll read up on infinote and vote on list.
[13:16:25] <ralphm> this space needs a solution, and making it a XEP enables people to go forward
[13:16:40] <Fritzy> SXE has been around for quite awhile.
[13:16:56] *stpeter consults http://xmpp.org:5290/muc_log/muc.xmpp.org/council/100614/
[13:16:59] <Kev> I'm principally in favour, i jsut want to read it again.
[13:16:59] <Fritzy> and I get questions about this problem space a lot.
[13:17:16] <Fritzy> so you're definitely right, Ralph.
[13:17:16] <Kev> 6) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/moved.html

Accept as Experimental.
[13:17:18] <ralphm> Fritzy: I know, I'm pretty sure I voted in favour before ;-)
[13:17:29] <ralphm> +1
[13:17:33] <remko> +1
[13:17:45] <ralphm> and wondering why it doesn't use the 'gone' xmpp stanza error
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[13:17:54] <Kev> I remember reading this and having assorted comments. I'll write them up at some point.
[13:18:02] <stpeter> ralphm: yeah I mentioned that to the author but he didn't add it yet
[13:18:02] <Kev> +1 in the meantime.
[13:18:11] <ralphm> stpeter: cool
[13:18:14] <MattJ> Well if we're happy it's going to be changed, +1
[13:18:18] <Fritzy> +1 + comments on list.
[13:18:44] <Kev> 7) Date of next meeting.
[13:18:52] <Kev> Next Monday, 1600GMT as usual?
[13:18:57] <ralphm> +1
[13:18:59] <MattJ> +1
[13:19:01] <ralphm> ehm
[13:19:04] <Kev> 1800
[13:19:05] <ralphm> 1800UTC
[13:19:06] <Kev> ahem :)
[13:19:15] <remko> wfm
[13:19:15] <Fritzy> ok
[13:19:25] <Kev> 8) Any other business.
[13:19:34] <stpeter> (BTW there is an implementation of SXE for whiteboarding on the iPad, developed by the new co-author of the spec)
[13:19:47] <Fritzy> What are we going to work on at the OSCON Summit?
[13:19:51] <Kev> There are other items on Radar that I need to chat with Peter about and see where we are with Council actions.
[13:19:59] <Kev> Fritzy: 'we'? :)
[13:20:02] <stpeter> Fritzy: feel free to write the agenda
[13:20:03] <ralphm> stpeter: does that mean that changes are difficult?
[13:20:13] <stpeter> ralphm: no
[13:20:44] <stpeter> I met Tom at the Anaheim IETF and he was quite flexible about fixes to the spec
[13:20:55] <ralphm> nod
[13:21:24] <stpeter> Fritzy: personally, I'm not sure about the value of a Summit if all we do is have interesting discussions (as at the last one) but nothing tangible comes out of it
[13:21:49] <stpeter> so if we can have hackfests, interop, code sprints, or something other than bloviating I'd be all in favor :P
[13:22:08] <stpeter> (and I'm the bloviator-in-chief so it's mostly my fault)
[13:22:18] <Fritzy> The last one? Didn't you have some of that in Belgium?
[13:22:19] <Kev> stpeter: you're welcome to get everyone coding with Swiften :)
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[13:22:35] <stpeter> Fritzy: I missed that first day
[13:22:42] <Fritzy> N900 day?
[13:22:44] <ralphm> I'm not sure I'm going to make it
[13:22:52] <Kev> The thing about the summits, I find, is that the value is mostly in all the out-of-band stuff.
[13:22:54] <Fritzy> I'll save a seat for you, Ralph.
[13:22:57] <Kev> That can only happen because there's a summit.
[13:22:59] <ralphm> but I sure would have enjoyed people staying around longer
[13:23:01] <stpeter> ralphm: do you know about the microblogging summit the day before?
[13:23:08] <ralphm> eh, no
[13:23:23] <stpeter> plus this Summit is happening right before I need to fly to Europe for IETF 78
[13:23:26] <ralphm> I'm a bit out of touch with stuff :-(
[13:23:41] <Kev> Anyway, I think we're treading out of 'Needs to be in Council' now.
[13:23:43] <stpeter> maybe we could have an informal get-together in Maastricht
[13:23:48] <stpeter> Kev: yepper
[13:23:50] <Kev> Anything else that needs doing before gavel-banging time?
[13:23:52] <ralphm> stpeter: very much so
[13:24:21] <stpeter> ralphm: I could request a room for an XMPP hackfest on Sunday before the IETF meeting really gets going
[13:24:36] <ralphm> cool
[13:24:43] <Kev> Right, sounds like we're done with Council.
[13:24:47] <Fritzy> Kev: I think so.
[13:24:51] <Kev> Thanks all - I'll send around minutes tomorrow.
[13:24:55] *Kev bangs the gavel.
[13:24:58] <ralphm> Fritzy: seat from .nl?
[13:25:28] <MattJ> Thanks Kev
[13:25:29] *stpeter is working through http://matthewwild.co.uk/uploads/3920bis_wglc_feedback.html today
[13:25:46] <ralphm> wow
[13:25:59] *MattJ has been working through http://blog.prosody.im/prosody-0-7-0-released/ and is now going to take the week off :)
[13:26:14] <Kev> A week off sounds lovely, and I only just had one :)
[13:26:31] <stpeter> heh
[13:26:32] <ralphm> Personal stuff and work has kept me from doing proper reviews :-(
[13:26:32] <Kev> Three betas in a fortnight has been hard work :)
[13:26:45] <stpeter> my vacation time is piling up, no time to take it
[13:27:01] <ralphm> I had to promise to take time off
[13:27:08] <stpeter> :)
[13:28:41] <ralphm> time to watch some soccer
[13:28:48] <stpeter> heh
[13:28:53] <stpeter> world cup time yet again
[13:28:58] <ralphm> indeed
[13:29:05] <ralphm> .nl vs .dk 2-0
[13:29:10] <ralphm> today
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[13:29:28] <stpeter> yep
[13:29:32] <stpeter> het oranje!
[13:30:55] <ralphm> MattJ: hope the freebsd port gets an update soon
[13:31:12] <MattJ> I'm going to install FreeBSD myself if needs be
[13:31:17] <MattJ> It *shall* be fixed :)
[13:31:21] <ralphm> haha
[13:32:42] <ralphm> I've been thinking about sift a bit, for clients that don't support it directly, maybe having some kind of server setting for enabling it based on resource or some other means would be nice
[13:33:36] <ralphm> (like my N900, presence seems to hammer the battery quite a bit)
[13:33:39] <Fritzy> MattJ: You found the BOSH leak then?
[13:34:03] <MattJ> Fritzy, yep, that was quite amazing :)
[13:34:09] <Fritzy> ralphm: interesting.
[13:34:13] <MattJ> It was about 4 issues combined to cause the same symptoms
[13:34:20] <Fritzy> love those!
[13:34:22] <Kev> ralphm: tried compiling Swift for it yet? :)
[13:34:30] <MattJ> 1 only occured when the user used Firefox, one only occured when Apache was used to proxy
[13:34:34] <ralphm> Kev: I expected a package from you ;-)
[13:34:37] <MattJ> 1 was essentially random
[13:34:43] <Kev> I don't have a shiny n900 to test with :)
[13:34:57] <Kev> Those nasty Nokia people made me give it back.
[13:34:59] <Fritzy> MattJ: crazy... well, I'll run 0.7 through it's paces in production starting today.
[13:35:08] <MattJ> Good luck :)
[13:35:21] <ralphm> Kev: don't you need it for work?
[13:35:34] <MattJ> It's made a record for having 1 minor bug during a 2+ week RC
[13:35:48] <Kev> ralphm: heh, that might be a hard sell :)
[13:35:51] <Fritzy> Kev: is Swift getting SCRAM?
[13:35:56] <Kev> Fritzy: Getting?
[13:36:51] <Fritzy> ah, it has it? very nice.
[13:37:40] <Kev> November 21st, says git log
[13:37:51] <Kev> commit 2c8bfd7c49bd16bebbf0b89c01fce7817afab74f
Author: Remko Tronçon <git@el-tramo.be>
Date: Sat Nov 21 01:59:21 2009 +0100

Implemented SCRAM-SHA-1 for real now.

[13:38:41] <MattJ> Also of interest: http://www.nödåtgärd.se/non-scientific-jabber-client-test/
[13:38:46] <Kev> Yes.
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[13:55:51] <stpeter> heh, http://xmpp.org:5290/muc_log/muc.xmpp.org/council/100614/ doesn't think that URL is legit :)
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[14:08:24] <MattJ> :P
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