Monday, July 05, 2010
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[13:01:32] <Kev_> Wow, two members of Council here already.
[13:01:40] <Kev_> </sarcasm>
[13:02:13] <MattJ> I got here before 19:00 ;)
[13:02:31] <Kev_> Yes, me three.
[13:04:46] <Kev_> Give them until ten past, I guess.
[13:05:32] <MattJ> *nod*
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[13:10:21] <ralphm> *phew*
[13:10:40] <MattJ> Haha
[13:10:55] <Kev_> Well done, with 30 seconds to spare.
[13:11:30] <Kev_> Or, 60, rather.
[13:11:55] <Kev_> Ok, ten past.
[13:12:05] <Kev_> 1) Roll call.
[13:12:17] <Kev_> Kev, Ralph, Matt present. Remko and Fritzy still AWOL.
[13:12:25] <Kev_> 2) Agenda bashing.
[13:12:45] <MattJ> None
[13:12:49] <Kev_> I only really wanted a meeting to get everyone back in reviewing specs after Remko and Fritzy dropped off the Council radar.
[13:12:53] <Kev_> 3) Pubsub
[13:13:02] <MattJ> What's to discuss?
[13:13:14] <Kev_> The only thing holding this up now is Ralph approving Peter's rollbacks, I think.
[13:13:17] <MattJ> Besides, I've changed my mind, I like pubsub now
[13:13:23] <Kev_> So Ralph - can you check them and let Peter know, please?
[13:13:34] <Kev_> 4) Voting.
[13:13:46] <Kev_> And, the people this applies to aren't here.
[13:14:13] <Kev_> I wanted to remind people that the reviewing and voting is the reason we've got a Council, and failing to do that isn't helping.
[13:14:20] <ralphm> yeah
[13:14:38] <Kev_> Dave stepped down because he wasn't managing to hit the meetings, and was having to vote on-list.
[13:15:05] <Kev_> It's entirely inappropriate for the other of Council to not attend meetings *and* not vote on list.
[13:15:09] <Kev_> But hi Choir.
[13:15:32] <Kev_> 5) Date of next meeting.
[13:15:38] <Kev_> Next Monday as usual?
[13:15:40] <ralphm> Kev_: did stpeter announce the changes yet, or are they just in vcs?
[13:15:45] <MattJ> +1
[13:15:52] <Kev_> There's a small chance I'll be unavailable, will update if so.
[13:16:03] <MattJ> ok
[13:16:05] <Kev_> ralphm: I do not know - could you coordinate with him, please?
[13:16:21] <Kev_> I suspect that once you're generally ok with the changes there'll need to be another vote.
[13:16:30] <ralphm> ah: "FYI. Ralph, this is for you. :)"
[13:16:33] <ralphm> in the pubsub list
[13:16:39] <ralphm> missed that :-)
[13:16:42] <Kev_> But it seems pointless to go through another vote for everyone if the changes weren't what you wanted.
[13:16:55] <Kev_> So, AOB?
[13:17:16] <ralphm> Kev_: seeing the summary, I'm ok with it then
[13:17:22] <MattJ> I was going to mention that I'm working on a replacement/successor series of XEPs to 136
[13:17:26] <Kev_> Ok, I'll speak to Peter and arrange a new vote.
[13:17:29] <Kev_> MattJ: excellent.
[13:17:32] <MattJ> But that's all for now
[13:17:36] <ralphm> we can quibble about details, but the document is never static
[13:17:37] <Kev_> But we've discussed that offlist anyway :)
[13:17:47] <Kev_> I think we're all done then.
[13:17:53] <Kev_> Thanks to those who turned up.
[13:18:18] <MattJ> np, thanks for chairing as usual :)
[13:18:38] *Kev_ bangs the gavel.
[13:18:45] <ralphm> MattJ: oh, that sounds painful. The amount of discussion on XEP-0136 is uncountable, it seems
[13:18:57] <Kev_> I'll write minutes and send around - possibly tomorrow.
[13:18:58] <MattJ> ralphm, the problem precisely :)
[13:19:00] <ralphm> Although it'll probably never beat XEP-0060
[13:19:07] <ralphm> :-P
[13:19:23] <MattJ> ralphm, but it turns out the only active client implementation is using one feature of the XEP, and that's about it :)
[13:19:35] <Kev_> I would like to use the successor in Swift.
[13:19:40] <Kev_> As long as it's modular and sane.
[13:19:53] <MattJ> I'll try not to let you down :)
[13:20:01] <Kev_> I don't object to all the 136 options existing - only to having them all in one place, and some of them being such a silly way of doing them.
[13:20:08] <Kev_> Anyway, I'm off out, bibi.
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[13:20:16] <MattJ> See you
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[13:20:20] <ralphm> MattJ: that is sad
[13:20:32] <MattJ> ralphm, indeed
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[13:21:09] <MattJ> This only came to light to me because of the student implementing it in Prosody for GSoC
[13:21:52] <MattJ> Some of the design decisions I still can't fathom
[13:21:53] <ralphm> I'm going to try keep 'features' out of any spec if there isn't a high probability of it being implemented
[13:22:03] <ralphm> i.e. let implementations drive specifications more
[13:22:10] <MattJ> Yes, agreed
[13:22:25] <MattJ> Put out a basic spec, see what direction it gets pushed in (if any)
[13:22:31] <ralphm> implementations == experiments, really
[13:22:35] <MattJ> Indeed
[13:23:02] <MattJ> and to be fair this is usually what the XSF does very well
[13:23:21] <MattJ> It just happens that there are some specs that really take everyone's fancy, and end up a dog's dinner
[13:27:15] <ralphm> haha
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[15:02:06] <Kev> ralphm: I think it's more thn "If it's not needed, don't put it in"
[15:02:22] <Kev> I think it's "If it's possible to implement without it, don't put it in", and then put it in another spec.
[15:02:26] <Kev> No-one dislikes small specs.
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[15:22:58] <ralphm> Kev: right
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