Monday, September 20, 2010
council@muc.xmpp.org
September
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
    1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
     
             
XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

[05:55:29] *** Tobias has joined the room
[06:39:00] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[06:58:59] *** Tobias shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[07:09:29] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[09:29:52] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[09:34:09] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[12:05:03] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:10:03] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[13:20:41] *** Tobias has left the room
[14:21:46] *** Kev has joined the room
[14:21:46] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:09:11] *** jkhii has joined the room
[16:49:13] *** jkhii shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[16:51:20] *** Tobias has joined the room
[16:52:08] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[17:07:33] *** Fritzy has joined the room
[17:07:33] *** Fritzy shows as "online" and his status message is "Disregard females, acquire currency."
[17:09:13] *** jkhii shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[17:16:55] *** stpeter has joined the room
[17:16:59] <stpeter> hiya
[17:17:05] <Kev> Evening.
[17:17:13] <stpeter> how goes it?
[17:17:15] <Kev> 43minutes by my watch :)
[17:17:24] <stpeter> time check verified, sir!
[17:17:39] <Kev> I've actually read the protoXEPs in advance, it must be a Monday :)
[17:17:46] <Fritzy> :)
[17:18:22] <Kev> stpeter: I gave waqas r/o access to the repo, btw, when he asked earlier. Said he didn't need r/w yet.
[17:18:29] <stpeter> ok
[17:18:32] <stpeter> WFM
[17:18:53] <Tobias> what's r/o?
[17:18:58] <Kev> read/only
[17:19:03] <Tobias> ahh :)
[17:21:36] *** MattJ has joined the room
[17:22:26] <MattJ> Doesn't everyone have read access?
[17:22:33] <Kev> Not through ssh.
[17:22:40] <Kev> And we've not set up a public mirror yet afaik.
[17:24:38] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[17:29:16] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[17:30:52] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[17:31:30] <Tobias> Kev: gitosis only manages access to the repo, right?
[17:31:40] <Kev> Yes.
[17:33:58] <Kev> Why or what were you wondering about?
[17:35:22] <Tobias> since we seem to have no git savvy email post commit hook notification expert around i'm making myself one :)
[17:35:54] <Kev> Does such a thing not exist already?
[17:35:59] <Tobias> it does
[17:36:07] <Tobias> it just needs to be activated by someone :)
[17:37:32] <Tobias> k..i wonder if that work
[17:37:36] <Tobias> *works
[17:38:32] *** Kooda has joined the room
[17:44:52] *** MattJ shows as "xa" and his status message is "Not available as a result of not being here"
[17:45:33] <stpeter> of the Council members, I see Ralph and Remko online, with Matthew being awat
[17:45:35] <stpeter> away even
[17:46:04] <Fritzy> I'm here too
[17:46:09] <Kev> Yep, got 15mins though.
[17:46:20] *** Kooda shows as "away" and his status message is " (Absent(e) car inactif depuis plus de 15 min)"
[17:46:22] <stpeter> just noting :)
[17:47:13] *** ralphm has joined the room
[17:47:15] *stpeter wanders off for tea
[17:48:03] *ralphm slowly gets back into action after a well-deserved-but-way-too-short holiday
[17:48:27] *** jkhii shows as "online"
[17:48:49] <Kev> Mine was a week.
[17:48:53] <Kev> Well, 4 days away.
[17:50:56] <ralphm> yeah, mine was 7 workingdays
[17:51:02] <ralphm> including today
[17:51:13] <ralphm> but we had a colo outage over the weekend
[17:51:14] <ralphm> so...
[17:53:22] *** Kooda shows as "online"
[17:55:26] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[17:57:07] *MattJ is back
[17:57:16] <MattJ> Timed dinner just right :)
[17:57:30] <stpeter> heh
[17:59:42] <Kev> Just enough time for me to brb before 7.
[18:00:48] <Kev> And we're on.
[18:01:01] <MattJ> Has anyone poked Remko?
[18:01:08] <Kev> I've reminded him at 14 minutes and 0 minutes.
[18:01:17] <MattJ> Fair enough
[18:01:18] <Kev> I expect he'll be along, he acked the 14minute reminder.
[18:01:47] *** remko has joined the room
[18:01:48] *** remko shows as "online"
[18:01:50] <remko> howdy
[18:01:53] <Kev> There.
[18:01:54] <MattJ> Yay :)
[18:02:03] *** jkhii shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:02:08] <Kev> 1) Roll call.
[18:02:11] <Kev> Sausage bap.
[18:02:11] <Fritzy> here
[18:02:15] <Kev> Also: all here.
[18:02:18] <Fritzy> <presence />
[18:02:19] <Kev> 2) Agenda bashing.
[18:02:20] <ralphm> woot!
[18:02:39] *stpeter wanders back in
[18:02:39] <MattJ> None
[18:02:51] <Fritzy> current agenda is ok
[18:02:56] <remko> none
[18:03:06] <Kev> 3) ProtoXEP - Spim Markers and Reports:
http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/spim.html

[18:03:09] <Kev> Accept as a XEP?
[18:03:25] *** waqas has joined the room
[18:03:26] <Kev> I had various comments to make about this, but nothing to stop us throwing it up as Experimental.
[18:03:27] <Fritzy> I have a lot of problems with it
[18:03:55] <ralphm> oh, the evil bit
[18:04:01] *MattJ waits to hear Fritzy's problems
[18:04:04] <ralphm> I thought we already had a spec for that
[18:04:05] <Kev> ralphm: Yes.
[18:04:11] <Fritzy> I'm going to vote -1 and email to the list my comments
[18:04:42] <Kev> Ok - this is substantial stuff that can't be sorted out while it's on the vine, then?
[18:04:56] <Fritzy> Well, sure -- let me go stream of thought
[18:05:05] <ralphm> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0076.html
[18:05:14] <stpeter> heh
[18:05:30] <Kev> I'd rather we had something we could put in the minutes as a reason for rejecting it :)
[18:05:43] <ralphm> I see many things wrong with this spec even at a glance
[18:05:49] <Fritzy> I don't like the filters extending the presence stanza
[18:05:50] <ralphm> like abusing presence for pubsub
[18:06:02] <MattJ> ralphm, eh?
[18:06:02] <ralphm> Fritzy: fools seldom differ
[18:06:11] <Fritzy> ?
[18:06:20] <ralphm> MattJ: like example 3
[18:06:39] <ralphm> this is clearly a horrible way to do things
[18:06:50] <MattJ> ralphm, I don't see why... it's not abusing presence for pubsub
[18:06:59] <MattJ> Those tags could be on a message stanza too
[18:07:03] <Fritzy> Also, I don't see how a complaint actually associates itself with what it is complaining about -- maybe I'm missing something here?
[18:07:09] <ralphm> it is, it is soliciting a subscription for stuff through presence
[18:07:14] <MattJ> Fritzy, the "key" attribute
[18:07:21] <stpeter> OT hmph, did we not add this meeting to the calendar?
[18:07:39] <MattJ> stpeter, if you didn't and I didn't then I guess not
[18:07:51] <stpeter> oops
[18:07:55] <Fritzy> MattJ: the key is associated with the subscription to the filter -- not the stanza it is complaining about
[18:08:02] <Fritzy> MattJ: or am I really missing something big here?
[18:08:04] <MattJ> ralphm, no, you're missing it...
[18:08:17] <MattJ> ralphm, that's a normal subscription request from one user to another user
[18:08:34] <MattJ> The <report> elements are to tell the recipient where to report spim to
[18:08:38] <waqas> stpeter: I'd also request notifications posted on identi.ca for council meetings. I always miss the meetings.
[18:08:48] <MattJ> They are inserted by the filters as the stanza passes through
[18:09:00] <ralphm> MattJ: I understand that
[18:09:04] <Kev> waqas: I'm not opposed to that. Although I'd rather I didn't have to remember it.
[18:09:14] <MattJ> Fritzy, subscription to the filter?
[18:09:17] <Kev> Something for AOB.
[18:09:20] <ralphm> anyway
[18:09:34] *** dwd has joined the room
[18:09:36] <Fritzy> I don't see what the complaint is for since it only contains to the key to the filter subscription.
[18:09:53] <MattJ> What filter subscription?
[18:10:06] <Fritzy> example 3
[18:10:12] <dwd> [log URI?]
[18:10:18] <MattJ> Fritzy, Read what I said to ralphm above
[18:10:25] <MattJ> You and he need to read the XEP again I suspect :)
[18:10:27] <ralphm> I believe we once figured out a way to discover special addresses at servers
[18:10:35] <ralphm> e.g. for reaching admins and what not
[18:10:36] <Fritzy> ah
[18:10:37] <Fritzy> ok
[18:10:39] <Fritzy> I get that now
[18:10:43] <ralphm> I think that should cover it
[18:11:00] <MattJ> Fritzy, to be clear that stanza is just an example, it could also be a <message>
[18:11:01] <Fritzy> so you're complaining about a specific jid
[18:11:18] <MattJ> Obviously if 2 *council members* don't understand this then the XEP needs clarifying :)
[18:11:20] <Kev> For what it's worth, I didn't think this was anything like as bad as you two do.
[18:11:41] <Tobias> MattJ: or the xep needs to wait for a new council ;)
[18:11:42] <MattJ> No, I like it... it's simple, and fits well with the other XEPs we have
[18:11:45] <Fritzy> MattJ: or wait, you're complaining about the stanza that is marked with a key.
[18:11:56] <MattJ> Fritzy, yes, now you're getting it :)
[18:12:01] <ralphm> MattJ: maybe you are right. I am still unsure about the usefulness.
[18:12:24] <Fritzy> sounds useful to me... if a bit noisy
[18:12:29] <MattJ> For example, reports could lower entity reputation, they could automatically add to block lists, etc.
[18:12:50] <Kev> I'll agree with it being noisy, but I think you need that if you want this level of control.
[18:12:54] <MattJ> Fritzy, if you read further it says to only include these tags in certain stanzas
[18:12:59] <Fritzy> right, I see that.
[18:13:07] <MattJ> Like initial subscription requests, or messages from people not in your roster
[18:13:20] <MattJ> So yes, it's "noisy", but only where it has to be
[18:13:38] <Fritzy> There might also be a need to optionally have a form for complaints from specific filters to make it more useful.
[18:13:43] <MattJ> The alternative would be to drop per-stanza reporting, but that has issues
[18:13:47] <Fritzy> so you could explain what you're complaining about
[18:13:51] <Fritzy> or suggest an action
[18:14:13] <ralphm> I think the marking bit is ok, but I'm not very sure about soliciting reports on individual stanzas
[18:14:14] <MattJ> Yes, I think Dave may have suggested something like that on the list
[18:14:20] <Kev> Ok, so, cutting this short.
[18:14:29] <Kev> Are Fritzy and/or Ralph still -1?
[18:14:31] <stpeter> using <presence type='subscribe'/> seems odd for this purpose...
[18:14:39] <MattJ> stpeter, not you too... :)
[18:15:07] <Kev> I picked a good day to take time out to read the proposals at length, I think :)
[18:15:09] <MattJ> stpeter, that is a normal subscription request from one user to another user
[18:15:15] <MattJ> Kev, likewise :)
[18:15:28] <stpeter> anyway I can post to the list about it
[18:15:30] <Kev> So, the proposal clearly needs clarification.
[18:15:33] <ralphm> MattJ: the problem is not in the fact that it is presence, it is the fact that every stanza is littered with lists of filters that you could report a stanza to as 'spim'.
[18:15:36] <MattJ> stpeter, the "filters" inject these tags so that the recipient can know where to report the stanza to
[18:15:37] <Fritzy> stpeter: it isn't using -- it's just marking that to show how to complain about
[18:15:38] <dwd> FWIW, my general thought was that it's an interesting start, we need something like this, and this is a solidly documented proposal.
[18:15:49] <Kev> The question is if Fritzy and Ralph are still vetoing it.
[18:15:50] <MattJ> dwd, I agree
[18:16:03] <Kev> There are much less well-written protoXEPs.
[18:16:05] *MattJ is +1
[18:16:05] <ralphm> dwd: true
[18:16:08] <Kev> Several are sitting in my outbox.
[18:16:12] <dwd> The details could be a lot better, but it's a step in the right direction and a solid base.
[18:16:23] <ralphm> dwd: would you implement something like this?
[18:16:23] <stpeter> however, I am almost always in favor of publication to get discussion going, put the spec into source control, etc.
[18:16:26] <ralphm> MattJ: ?
[18:16:35] <Kev> ralphm: I'd strongly consider it (client)
[18:16:35] <MattJ> ralphm, yes?
[18:16:36] <stpeter> not that I have vote at the moment :)
[18:17:01] <Kev> Ok, this item is going on much too long.
[18:17:03] <ralphm> I am trying to get a feel of the demand for something like this
[18:17:05] <Kev> Fritzy: Are you still -1?
[18:17:08] <Kev> ralphm: Are you still -1?
[18:17:17] <MattJ> ralphm, I'd implement it
[18:17:21] <MattJ> For sure
[18:17:38] <Fritzy> I'm no longer vetoing it for experimental, but I think it warrants some cleanup and discussion.
[18:17:42] <dwd> I suspect some of our partners may be interested. I suspect we might be too. With some evolution, obviously.
[18:17:45] <Kev> Spam filtering is something that would really interest me to implement server-side.
[18:17:47] <ralphm> I'm 0
[18:17:49] <dwd> Fritzy, Oh, for sure.
[18:17:53] <MattJ> We've accepted far worse protoXEPs... :)
[18:17:55] <Kev> Appeals to my past life as a labrat.
[18:17:58] <Kev> Ok, excellent.
[18:18:00] <MattJ> Yay
[18:18:11] <dwd> Kev, Just *don't* mention it to David...
[18:18:24] <Kev> The XEP Editor can publish, and we'll free-for-all on the standards list.
[18:18:24] <Fritzy> yeah, so when will this be in M-link?
[18:18:28] <Fritzy> ;)
[18:18:28] <Kev> dwd: Could get interesting.
[18:18:37] <Kev> 4) ProtoXEP - Bidirectional Server-to-Server Connections.
http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/bidi.html
[18:18:40] <Kev> Accept?
[18:18:42] <MattJ> +1
[18:18:48] <ralphm> +1
[18:18:54] <Kev> I object to the formatting of example 3 breaking the XML highlighter, but am in favour.
[18:18:58] <MattJ> Only time has stopped me implementing this
[18:19:02] <Kev> I've already complained to one of the authors about that :)
[18:19:02] <ralphm> dwd: I'm curious about idleness and disconnects
[18:19:10] <dwd> This is Fippo's write-up of my suggestion of resolving Justin's issue as raised in 2003 or something.
[18:19:16] <Fritzy> Definitely +1
[18:19:21] <Fritzy> we need to get somethign out there that solves this.
[18:19:24] <Kev> remko:?
[18:19:26] <remko> +1
[18:19:46] <ralphm> dwd: did you think about that yet?
[18:19:54] <dwd> ralphm, I believe that's unaffected. Indeed, I think it's much easier to manage idleness and 198 and things with bidi.
[18:20:10] <Kev> 5) New term applications reminder.
[18:20:18] <dwd> ralphm, For a start, doing ping-checks across S2S is a PITA.
[18:20:22] <MattJ> Reminded, thanks :)
[18:20:25] <dwd> ralphm, (without bidi)
[18:20:31] *stpeter notices that Kev is in 30-minute-meeting mode
[18:20:32] <Kev> Just a reminder to anyone thinking of reapplying or applying that the application period will close in a touch over a week.
[18:20:38] <remko> ok
[18:20:42] <Kev> stpeter: Kev is *always* in 30min meeting mode.
[18:20:44] <Kev> Or ideall 20.
[18:20:48] <MattJ> dwd, it's not when you have send_iq() :)
[18:20:58] <Kev> 6) Date of next meeting.
[18:21:09] <Kev> Fritzy: Mondays are difficult for you - when is less difficult?
[18:21:11] <dwd> MattJ, No, because the response still comes back over a different socket.
[18:21:26] <MattJ> dwd, doesn't matter... it means the one you sent on is fine
[18:21:33] <Fritzy> Tues-Fri any other time is less difficult
[18:21:43] <Kev> Fritzy: Any *other* time?
[18:21:48] <Kev> Implying this time is bad any day?
[18:21:50] <dwd> MattJ, Track that over a cluster...
[18:22:03] *** jkhii shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[18:22:05] *** jkhii shows as "online"
[18:22:07] <MattJ> dwd, I shall do some day :)
[18:22:11] <Fritzy> Monday afternoon or Tues-Fri any time.
[18:22:20] <ralphm> Fritzy: UTC times, please
[18:22:39] <Kev> Later than this is a nuisance for me, and I suspect other .eu people, although I could manage an hour later ok I think.
[18:23:01] <Fritzy> +2 hrs than this or Tues-Fri
[18:23:04] *** waqas has left the room
[18:23:21] <Fritzy> I'm fine with next Monday same time though
[18:23:27] <Fritzy> just as a tendency
[18:23:34] <ralphm> :-)
[18:23:35] <Fritzy> I often have meetings on Monday morning
[18:23:37] <Kev> Ok.
[18:23:39] <Fritzy> and other catch-up
[18:23:48] <stpeter> is it worth working this out before the new Council is elected?
[18:23:51] <Kev> Well, does anyone have difficulty with Tuesday, at the same time?
[18:23:55] <ralphm> stpeter: my thought
[18:24:06] <Fritzy> stpeter: yeah, I'm fine with working this out in the next council if I'm still on
[18:24:08] <ralphm> lets just finish the term with this slot
[18:24:09] <Kev> stpeter: There are enough weeks left that if 20% of Council can't make the meetings, it's probably worth sorting IMO.
[18:24:15] <stpeter> (if there is a new Council considering that http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2010 is empty!)
[18:24:21] <ralphm> woops
[18:24:22] <MattJ> :D
[18:24:25] *ralphm copy/pastes
[18:24:26] <Fritzy> haha
[18:24:30] <Kev> stpeter: My app's written, but not linked.
[18:24:46] <stpeter> darn, I was hoping to be elected the Council-of-One :)
[18:24:46] <Fritzy> let's just do Monday next week for now
[18:24:50] <Fritzy> same time same bat-channel
[18:24:55] <Kev> Ok.
[18:24:56] <remko> ok
[18:24:59] <Kev> Any other business?
[18:25:05] <ralphm> stpeter: you're running?
[18:25:06] <Kev> Calendaring and microblogs from waqas.
[18:25:13] <Fritzy> yay
[18:25:14] <ralphm> oh
[18:25:18] <ralphm> application for fosdem
[18:25:22] <Kev> k.
[18:25:31] <Kev> So, Matt - are you still (generally) doing the calendar entries?
[18:25:33] <ralphm> we want the full shebang again?
[18:25:36] <stpeter> ralphm: I was going to if no one else did, that way I could dispense with all this democratic-process nonsense :)
[18:25:42] <Kev> ralphm: Let's do the other first.
[18:25:48] <ralphm> Kev: ok
[18:25:51] <MattJ> Kev, I was, then stpeter was... that got me out of the habit :)
[18:25:58] <MattJ> I can start reminding myself again
[18:26:01] <Kev> Ok.
[18:26:07] <Kev> Who wants to announce on identi.ca?
[18:26:16] <ralphm> wait what?
[18:26:19] <Kev> Is there an XSF account?
[18:26:20] <MattJ> stpeter is busy enough that we should ban him from trivial things like editing calendars
[18:26:22] <Kev> Do we want to do this?
[18:26:24] <stpeter> if it's in the calendar, people will tend to remember it
[18:26:38] <MattJ> There is an XSF account
[18:26:39] <stpeter> Kev: there is
[18:26:39] <Fritzy> I believe there is an XSF account on identi.ca
[18:26:48] <ralphm> do what?
[18:27:01] <Kev> Announce meetings on identi.ca - it was waqas's suggestion earlier.
[18:27:04] <ralphm> ah
[18:27:05] <ralphm> sure
[18:27:07] <ralphm> +1
[18:27:15] <Kev> I'm happy to delay such changes to process until the new Council take over.
[18:27:17] <stpeter> attendance goes up if we announce it 15 minutes before the meeting
[18:27:17] <Fritzy> xmpp uris!
[18:27:23] <ralphm> Kev: nah
[18:27:26] <Kev> But we can start doing it now
[18:27:31] <Kev> who wants to do it?
[18:27:46] <ralphm> Kev: you!
[18:27:53] <stpeter> I find myself not paying attention to identi.ca anymore :(
[18:27:54] <Kev> I guess the Chair can do it, but he's likely to forget.
[18:28:00] <MattJ> How about... I take it on, but I'll write a bot
[18:28:08] <Kev> stpeter: I've disabled the XMPP bot now, too distracting.
[18:28:08] <ralphm> MattJ: haha
[18:28:09] <stpeter> +1 to bot
[18:28:12] <Kev> MattJ: perfect, ta.
[18:28:16] <Kev> Ok.
[18:28:18] <Kev> FOSDEM:
[18:28:20] <Kev> Ralph :)
[18:28:23] <ralphm> right
[18:28:26] <Kev> Your 2 minutes start now.
[18:28:34] <stpeter> MattJ: poke me if you need the password for the XSF account
[18:28:36] <ralphm> it's that time of year again to apply for a devroom and a booth
[18:28:41] <MattJ> stpeter, I think I know it, thanks
[18:28:42] <ralphm> at FOSDEM
[18:28:43] <stpeter> k
[18:28:56] <ralphm> 5/6 feb 2011
[18:29:00] <Kev> ralphm: I'm inclined to say we want the status quo.
[18:29:05] <ralphm> ok
[18:29:10] <Kev> devroom was overflowing last year.
[18:29:20] <stpeter> yeah that was fun
[18:29:22] <ralphm> Did I do the application this year?
[18:29:23] <MattJ> Heh
[18:29:28] <ralphm> I forgot
[18:29:44] <ralphm> I can do it this time, again
[18:29:48] <stpeter> yes you did
[18:29:51] <stpeter> at least, I didn't :)
[18:29:54] <ralphm> :-)
[18:30:04] <Kev> I think this is probably Board, rather than Council, mind.
[18:30:09] <MattJ> ralphm, you could always ask the assistance of the communications team if you need it :)
[18:30:12] <stpeter> Board meeting on Tuesday of this week
[18:30:15] <stpeter> we could discuss there
[18:30:18] <Tobias> dwd: a little late, just had to add an A record, but here are the logs :P http://logs.xmpp.org/muc_log/muc.xmpp.org/council/100920/
[18:30:22] <ralphm> Kev: nah, it has always been done by me, basically
[18:30:25] <stpeter> xmpp:xsf@muc.xmpp.org?join
[18:30:29] <stpeter> it's in the calendar, too
[18:30:32] <ralphm> with no particular strong binding to the xsf
[18:30:35] <Fritzy> Can bidi be extended to include dwd's multi-domain per s2s connection with signatures?
[18:30:36] *** Tobias changed the title to "XMPP Council Room | http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Radar | http://logs.xmpp.org/muc_log/muc.xmpp.org/council/"
[18:30:37] <stpeter> ralphm: right
[18:30:41] <ralphm> although we always went as such
[18:30:46] <stpeter> ralphm: and I'm fine with that!
[18:30:52] *** Tobias changed the title to "XMPP Council Room | http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Radaras"
[18:30:55] <MattJ> Tobias, sensible URLs for the logs? You deserve a bonus :)
[18:31:02] <MattJ> Tobias, I couldn't get that working
[18:31:06] <Tobias> MattJ: i didn't do nothing :)
[18:31:11] <Tobias> just had the record added :D
[18:31:14] <ralphm> just more of a reminder, and I'm wondering if we plan to do a summit again
[18:31:18] <Kev> ralphm: Well, if we get a room, I'm happy.
[18:31:29] <Tobias> MattJ: config and all was already there
[18:31:34] <MattJ> We're doing a summit if we can get somewhere with windows, I think
[18:31:36] <Kev> I'd hope we'd do a summit again, although that needs (probably Board) volunteers to arrange.
[18:31:44] <ralphm> MattJ: +1
[18:31:49] <Kev> Right, windows would be nice. Internets even nicer.
[18:31:51] <MattJ> We've been underground far too long :)
[18:31:53] <stpeter> I've heard that I can get a free meeting room at a Cisco location near the airport (not in the center)
[18:32:03] <Kev> stpeter: I think that's worth strongly considering.
[18:32:04] <stpeter> but I need to ask and get that organized
[18:32:11] <stpeter> to see if it's doable
[18:32:18] <Kev> Could someone ask Board to discuss this tomorrow, please?
[18:32:21] <stpeter> yes
[18:32:23] <Tobias> MattJ: but i guess it would be nice to eliminate the the mud_log/muc.xmpp.org parts..it blows the whole thing up and there aren't any other muc components running
[18:32:24] <Kev> Ta.
[18:32:30] <MattJ> Tobias, +1
[18:32:34] <stpeter> Board meetings are open, BTW
[18:32:35] <Kev> I think we're out of agenda items then, unless there's AOAOB.
[18:32:36] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:32:42] <MattJ> I'm done
[18:32:45] <Kev> stpeter: I'll be trying to remember to attend.
[18:32:54] <Kev> I'll knock out the minutes tomorrow morning, probably.
[18:33:02] *ralphm hands the gavel
[18:33:09] <Kev> Ok, we're done then
[18:33:12] *Kev bangs the gavel.
[18:33:14] <Kev> Thanks all.
[18:33:19] <MattJ> Thanks
[18:33:25] <ralphm> hooray
[18:33:50] <Fritzy> Kev/stpeter: has there been any progress made on multi-domain and single cert + signatures per s2s connection?
[18:33:52] <remko> thanks
[18:33:55] <stpeter> Kev: added to http://typewith.me/EyJg4G3XSr
[18:33:59] <ralphm> oh, fosdem also requests ideas for main track speakers
[18:34:01] <Kev> stpeter: ta.
[18:34:06] <Fritzy> aka: the gtalk problem
[18:34:14] <ralphm> not something I've done, but if anyone wants to speak...
[18:34:16] <stpeter> Fritzy: see http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-barnes-xmpp-dna-00
[18:34:37] <Fritzy> stpeter: thanks
[18:35:04] <stpeter> Fritzy: there is also http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-xmpp-dna-00 (expired), but the doc from Richard Barnes incorporates discussion at the meeting in Maastricht in late July
[18:35:31] <Fritzy> cool
[18:35:38] <MattJ> ralphm, I'd likely forget to take my coat off ;)
[18:35:50] <stpeter> Kev: will you have time to write up minutes for this meeting? any other volunteers?
[18:36:03] <Kev> Isode are fairly kind people, I'll do it tomorrow morning.
[18:36:15] <Kev> Unless someone else has a burning desire to get involved!
[18:36:36] <stpeter> :)
[18:37:05] <stpeter> I might find time to do it this evening (Mountain Time)
[18:37:08] <stpeter> but not before then
[18:37:10] <stpeter> brb
[18:38:13] <Fritzy> stpeter: thanks!
[18:39:48] <Kev> stpeter: If you want to beat me to it, feel free.
[18:39:48] <Tobias> k..would be handy if one of those *admin folk* would add this to the topic line: http://logs.xmpp.org/council
[18:40:54] *** MattJ changed the title to "XMPP Council Room | http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Radar | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council"
[18:41:49] <MattJ> It's not happy with that... the URLs it directs to are wrong
[18:42:11] <Tobias> works for me
[18:42:24] <Kev> Not for me.
[18:42:36] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:42:38] <Tobias> http://logs.xmpp.org/100714/ <-- this is wrong indeed :)
[18:42:40] <Kev> You end up trying http://logs.xmpp.org/100920/council/council/council/council/council/council/
[18:42:59] <Kev> Before deciding that no matter how many times you press it, it won't work.
[18:43:08] <stpeter> heh
[18:43:36] <Tobias> Kev: what did you do to get that?
[18:43:46] <MattJ> I'll probably look at that, the person who wrote the code originally has gone AWOL :)
[18:43:48] <Kev> Clicked today's tade, then clicked council
[18:43:52] <Kev> then clicked council
[18:43:55] <Kev> then clicked council
[18:43:56] <Kev> etc.
[18:44:18] *** remko shows as "away"
[18:44:52] <ralphm> FOSDEM this year marks a preference for 'encompassing topics'
[18:45:28] <ralphm> shall I suggest related, open protocols as a possible grander theme?
[18:45:41] <Kev> Isn't that always our grander theme?
[18:45:47] <Tobias> Kev: the link seems to have to have a / at the end
[18:46:03] <Tobias> mind changing that in the topic?
[18:46:09] <ralphm> Kev: sure, but we've always 'marketed' the room as xmpp specific
[18:46:17] <Kev> Ah, I see.
[18:46:22] <ralphm> even though our community is clearly broader in interest
[18:46:28] <Kev> Well, we could do extensible social stuff.
[18:46:41] *** Tobias changed the title to "XMPP Council Room | http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Radar | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/"
[18:47:10] <ralphm> they might then opt to have a bigger room and hook us up with other open protocols people
[18:47:25] <ralphm> which I think is nice
[18:47:32] <ralphm> (and we do the summit, too)
[18:47:39] *** remko shows as "online"
[18:47:43] <Kev> I think our tie to open social stuff is more useful than our tie to generic open protocols.
[18:47:46] <Kev> open social protocols works.
[18:47:49] <ralphm> nod
[18:47:59] <ralphm> that'd be the thing
[18:48:20] <ralphm> most of the talk on open protocols revolves around this topic anyway
[18:48:29] <Kev> Well, they should all be using XMPP, so sure :D
[18:48:38] <ralphm> oauth, openid, discovery thingies, etc.
[18:48:41] <ralphm> haha
[18:54:16] *** Kooda shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Je regarde un film."
[18:55:17] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[18:55:49] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[18:56:51] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[18:57:13] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[18:59:07] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[18:59:19] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[19:00:30] <Tobias> Kev: mind adding a / to the log url at top?
[19:00:33] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[19:00:55] <ralphm> application done
[19:01:53] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[19:02:16] *** MattJ changed the title to "XMPP Council Room | http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Radar | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/"
[19:02:31] <Tobias> thanks kev
[19:02:39] <MattJ> np
[19:02:46] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:03:14] *stpeter wanders off to run an errand...
[19:03:25] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "running an errand"
[19:03:32] <MattJ> Tobias, without '/' should probably redirect
[19:03:41] <MattJ> I'll add that to the tracker
[19:03:48] <MattJ> (prosody-modules tracker, that is)
[19:03:55] <Tobias> ok :)
[19:04:08] <Tobias> since i tried that and failed pretty fast and though i should give up pretty fast too
[19:04:08] <Tobias> :P
[19:04:30] <MattJ> :)
[19:05:32] *** ralphm has left the room
[19:06:00] <Tobias> MattJ: do you have admin access to the MLs?
[19:06:16] <Kev> I do.
[19:06:17] <MattJ> No, thankfully
[19:06:39] <Tobias> Kev: could you tell me if there's something in xmpp-commit moderation queue?
[19:06:44] <Kev> Peter normally manages them, mind.
[19:07:19] <Tobias> since i pushed something to the repo and it was supposed to send a mail to there
[19:09:38] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:10:32] <Kev> what's the mailing list address?
[19:10:38] <Kev> xmpp-commit@xmpp.org?
[19:11:11] <Kev> Gottit, nevermind.
[19:11:15] <Tobias> k
[19:11:16] <Kev> Now, let's work out what the password is.
[19:11:19] *** Fritzy shows as "away" and his status message is "Disregard females, acquire currency."
[19:12:10] <Kev> I don't see any pending mails.
[19:12:17] <Tobias> strange
[19:14:09] <Tobias> i've added the mailinglist = foo stuff to the hook section of the repo config
[19:14:31] <Tobias> and enabled the post-receive hook
[19:16:41] *** jkhii shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[19:17:13] *** jkhii shows as "online"
[19:19:39] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:22:50] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[19:23:41] *** mlundblad has joined the room
[19:45:34] *** jkhii shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[19:47:52] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:53:36] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[19:53:48] <mlundblad> was there a council meeting tonight?
[19:54:00] <remko> yes
[19:56:57] *** Fritzy shows as "online" and his status message is "Disregard females, acquire currency."
[19:57:22] <Tobias> remko: btw: did you get your prosody issues sorted out?
[19:57:44] <remko> mattj is on it, as always
[19:57:48] <remko> it's related to xep-198
[19:57:53] <Tobias> ah.ok
[19:58:16] <MattJ> remko, btw... I found no broken hashes in my contact list
[19:58:38] <MattJ> Well, actually I found 2... let me send that email, I'm getting like waqas :)
[19:59:20] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:01:09] <remko> you found no broken hashes, but actually 2?
[20:01:22] <remko> that doesn't sound like 'no' to me :)
[20:02:00] <Tobias> more noish :)
[20:02:26] <remko> yes, my contact list is also clean, but the latest adium beta has a bug
[20:02:36] <remko> and i suspect jabbim and jabber2jabber as well
[20:02:52] <Tobias> latest? the one released yesterday?
[20:03:07] <remko> oh darn, was there a release yesterday?
[20:03:13] <Tobias> yup
[20:03:25] <Tobias> 1.4b19
[20:03:34] <remko> ah yes, it was a beta
[20:03:43] <remko> actually, i even tried the nightly, same problem
[20:03:48] <Tobias> k
[20:04:32] <remko> and jabber2jabber uses gloox i'm told
[20:04:39] <remko> so that seems to be aligned with mattj's mail
[20:05:05] <MattJ> Yes... Spectrum also uses gloox, and it's likely the same issue
[20:05:22] <MattJ> since someone found that Spectrum contacts report as invalid also
[20:05:34] *** jkhii shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:05:47] <MattJ> It generates a correct hash, but doesn't add any features to the disco results when a node is included
[20:05:49] <remko> jabber2jabber uses spectrum
[20:06:01] <remko> right, adium has a similar problem
[20:06:09] <remko> it hashes correctly, but doesn't update the hash if you add some features
[20:06:26] <MattJ> Ah
[20:06:32] <remko> that's the price you pay for caching ;-)
[20:06:38] <remko> bugs
[20:06:43] <remko> :)
[20:06:47] <remko> anyway, i'm off, ttyl
[20:06:53] *** remko has left the room
[20:06:54] <MattJ> Prosody caches it too, but it regenerates for every new feature added/removed :)
[20:06:59] <MattJ> Heh
[20:09:26] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:09:30] *** dwd shows as "online"
[20:20:23] *** jkhii shows as "online"
[20:34:50] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[20:35:31] *** Kooda shows as "online"
[20:39:02] *** Kooda has left the room
[20:48:50] *** MattJ shows as "xa" and his status message is "Not available as a result of not being here"
[20:51:56] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:01:12] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:01:36] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:09:11] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:09:25] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:10:26] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:12:02] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:17:17] *** Tobias has left the room
[21:19:11] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:20:12] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:20:22] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:24:16] *** Tobias has joined the room
[21:25:26] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:33:54] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:36:02] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:37:26] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:39:12] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:40:24] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:40:25] *** jkhii shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:41:42] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:41:50] *** Fritzy shows as "away" and his status message is "Disregard females, acquire currency."
[21:44:26] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:44:41] *** Fritzy shows as "online" and his status message is "Disregard females, acquire currency."
[21:47:30] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:49:48] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:51:53] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[21:52:00] *** mlundblad has left the room
[21:54:22] *** stpeter has left the room
[21:55:06] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:57:40] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[22:00:25] *** jkhii shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[22:04:27] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[22:08:26] *** jkhii shows as "online"
[22:09:18] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[22:09:41] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[22:19:29] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[22:20:41] *** Tobias has left the room
[22:25:10] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:33:29] *** MattJ shows as "xa" and his status message is "Not available as a result of not being here"
[22:35:10] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:42:13] *** jkhii shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[22:55:16] *** jkhii shows as "online"
[22:56:01] *** jkhii has left the room
[22:56:15] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:00:16] *** Kev has left the room
[23:00:30] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:14:30] *** MattJ shows as "xa" and his status message is "Not available as a result of not being here"
[23:18:02] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:19:54] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:20:26] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:22:02] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:22:46] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:24:11] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:25:21] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:26:43] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:26:49] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:27:51] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:28:54] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:30:06] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:32:30] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:34:40] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:39:28] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:48:42] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:49:58] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:55:40] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:56:36] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:57:44] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:58:14] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[23:59:14] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"