stpetermiles to go before we sleep, at least with respect to tomorrow's IESG meeting
Johann Prieurhas joined
bearlurks in the corner with his Board Member hat on
Kev(I asked bear along for the FOSDEM discussions)
stpeterI wish there were a way to move tabs around in Psi, as there is in Firefox
stpetertoo many tabs...
KevThere is, but you won't like it :)
KevAaaaaanyway, it's Wednesday, it's four o'clock, and it's Council time!
Fritzyit's 8am, and I'm in my pajamas.
Kev1) Roll call.
KevI believe I'm here also.
KevRalph has just gone AFK, and I've not seen MattJ today.
Kev2) Agenda bashing.
KevSeems fairly quiet.
FritzyI'll be there. Last time we talked, I wasn't going, but I am now.
Fritzyhave we determined what we're doing for a competition?
stpetersorry, had a phone call
KevDoes Council need to do anything in preparation for this? Board asked me to send a mail to members@ asking what people wanted to do for the hackfest on the Friday, which no-one has yet replied to.
stpeterlet's get Florian in here
Kevstpeter: That's why bear's been invited :)
KevI would have asked Florian as our man on the ground, but his status indicates he's on his mobile.
stpeterthere he is
KevFlorian: see above :)
stpeterFlorian is Mr. Competition
firstname.lastname@example.orgWow, I seem to be able to do MUC
email@example.comSo, what's up?
KevDoes Council need to do anything to prepare for FOSDEM?
KevI sent my mail to members@ asking about the Friday, as requested, although no-one's answered.
bearis Interop going to be an official event?
firstname.lastname@example.orgInterop on Friday maybe?
KevWhat sort of interop?
email@example.comAs we have people hacking on clients and servers?
Fritzyeither interop or a hackfest
bearthat's why I was asking kev
KevI'm happy to have a day hacking on stuff, and it'd be fun, the question is whether it's the best use of time/resources.
stpeterreplies to Kev's message on the summit@ list
bearI would (personally) love to see some client lib hacking against the interop servers
KevOh, was it summit@ that I mailed? Whatever :)
Fritzywell, we've done a bunch of s2s interop, and even some c2s interop. It's time for some client to server interop, right?
Fritzyerrr. c2c not c2s
KevIsn't c2s interop synonymous with client to server interop?
linuxwolfthat's what I was thinking...
KevRight, let's try the whole sentence again with the right words :)
bearright what fritzy meant to say: some basic c2c across each interop server
Fritzyok, we've done s2s and client-to-client, but we haven't done much client-to-server that I'm aware of.
Fritzymaking sure that clients are treating certificates correctly, etc.
Fritzydealing with jid binding correctly for edge cases, etc
linuxwolfnods … and expects lots of failures there
KevRight, there was a little of that in interop week, but Swift was the only client that was keeping up with the tests I published.
linuxwolfit's good to be the King? (-;
Kev(where keeping up isn't used as a synonym for passing)
Kevlinuxwolf: I think there was a general lack of interest from client devs, compared to server devs.
Fritzywhat client devs are we going to have there? I'd be happy to run Sleek through it.
FritzyI think there was general unawareness from client devs.
Kevstpeter: Is our 'net connection going to be sensible this year?
Fritzywe'll be at Cisco, so I'd hope so.
KevIf it is, I can have the various test servers for invalid certs etc. set up for testing against remotely.
KevFritzy: Never hurts to check.
bearthat's my secret/evil plan - alternating server interop with client/lib interop. so they are continually building on the successes of the prior sessions
stpeterKev: yes, it should be!
Fritzyand maybe the council/board could seek out client devs ahead of time, poking them individually.
waqasTests for non-ASCII hostnames in certs would be good. Along with unusual DNS configurations.
Kevbear: Well, I'd rather we ran them at the same time tbh.
bearkev - just trying to avoid burnout of one or the other
KevClient testing relies on having the test servers up, and there's no motivation for the server vendors to spend (significant) resources on the event for client testing.
Kevwaqas: We can test those things, but given the simultaneous upheaval in internationalisation stuffs, it's not clear to me that it's a worthwhile exercise.
KevWe'll find out how good support is for the standard we're about to change :)
bearmy working assumption is until we get both sides generating data interest will be hard to maintain
Fritzywhat kind of data?
bearthis server does xep x, y, z but not q
KevOk, so, I propose that what we do on Friday is (apart from Peter's early session on internationalisation), we don't schedule talks, and that we spend the day in a combination of hacking and informal testing.
bearthis client supports y, z but fails on x
stpeterBTW I volunteered to present an internationalization tutorial on Friday
bear+1 to kev's idea
Kevbear: Note that we have those data (and published them) for all of the participating clients and servers for the last test event.
Kevstpeter: Yes, isn't that what I said?
bearkev - yep, and that's the first step
FritzyI think we need to reach out to people individually ahead of time
KevSo, I think we need to decide if either testing or hackfesting is going to be formalised in any way for the Friday. I'm inclined to say 'no', but if people want it to be, we'll need to decide how/what.
KevFritzy: Yes, that should have happened with the last interop, but didn't really.
Fritzysounds like a board thing. ;)
KevIt was :)
bearit was and it was early in that board iteration :(
Fritzybear, how about we work together to seek out client dev participants? you and I can get it done.
KevSo, my opinion is that there's nothing for Council to be doing in planning Friday at this stage, unless further discussion changes this.
KevWhich brings us to the date of next meeting.
KevNext Wed. as usual?
KevAny other business?
FritzyWill we have the whole council at FOSDEM?
stpeterat least for toda
stpeterFritzy: I think so, but not sure about lw
Fritzythat'll be a first
linuxwolfI've gotten conflicting answers so far
Fritzywe might have a meeting while we're there in peron.
ralphmI couldn't get in here
ralphmstill loads of lag
Fritzywe could plan some council discussions over theweekend.
KevWe could. Or we could just let them happen naturally :)
KevSo, I think we're done then.
Kevralphm: There'll be more meetings.
Kevbangs the gavel.
stpeterthe one time we had a formal council meeting in person, everyone else just zoned out :)
ralphmdoesn't sound like I missed very much
Kevstpeter: That was 2008, I think.
stpeter2007 sounds right
Fritzyyeah, this is 2011... things have changed! Humanity has evolved!
ralphmstpeter: yeah, that didn't quite work
stpeterso much evolution, so little progress...
ralphmwe can just sit in a corner and maybe people want to join
FritzyIn any case, I wouldn't have the meeting with the group as a whole. After hours.
ralphmI wouldn't do it planary
Johann Prieurhas left
ralphmMattJ: welcome anyway
MattJwas out and didn't make it back in time
MattJSomeone needs to write a decent MUC-capable Android client
stpeterralphm: did we receive confirmation regarding the FOSDEM stand?
ralphmstpeter: I didn't
stpeterralphm: discussing FOSDEM in xmpp:firstname.lastname@example.org?join
stpeterchecks his email
ralphmstpeter: I'm unsure now if we applied
stpeterum, ok, perhaps I left that for you and you left that for me
ralphmstpeter: possible. we suck :-(
ralphmstpeter: I do regret I didn't check that, though
stpeterralphm: it's ok
stpeterdo we have a Council meeting planned for next week?