-
Kev
!agendaappend XEP-0237: Roster Versioning Accept version 1.2? http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0237/diff/1.1/vs/1.2rc1 http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0237-1.2.html
-
Kanchil+
Kev: Done.
-
Kev
!agendaup -6
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 0) Fini.
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 1) Roll call
-
Kev
!agendaup -1
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 0) Fini.
-
dwd
!agenda
-
dwd
Oh. It's not here.
- dwd gives up and reads the scrollback instead.
-
Kev
It is here, it just won't listen to you
-
Kev
!agenda
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 1) Roll call 2) Agenda bashing 3) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Header Extensions Negotiation http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtp-hdrext.html Accept as XEP? 4) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Feedback Negotiation http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtcp-fb.html Accept as XEP? 5) Proposed XMPP Extension: Sensor-Over-XMPP http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html Accept as XEP? 6) XEP-0237: Roster Versioning Accept version 1.2? http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0237/diff/1.1/vs/1.2rc1 http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0237-1.2.html 7) Date of next meeting 8) Any other business Fini
-
dwd
Interesting. I don't see it...
-
Kev
Are you looking at the moderators?
-
dwd
Yes. Probably it's just that I really need to update my server to a recent build. :-)
-
dwd
Oh, either that or I got desynched at some point.
-
Kev
Could be.
-
stpeter
ah, from my perspective today's Council meeting is shifted forward an hour -- I think European countries go forward on March 26, right?
-
Kev
Sounds right for the UK.
-
stpeter
great, I get to lose two hours this year because I'll be in Prague then
-
Kev
I was aware the US wasn't in sync with the UK (is it even in sync with itself?), that's why I warned everyone last week :)
-
stpeter
plus I lose that hour the night I arrive -- fun :)
-
stpeter
ah, the glamour of international travel
- stpeter crawls back under his rock to concentrate on document reviews for tomorrow's IESG telechat
-
Kev
Enjoy :)
-
stpeter
Kev: BTW I noticed http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Radar in the room subject -- perhaps I should delete that page or redirect it to http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/
-
stpeter
set the topic to
XMPP Council Room | http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/
-
Kev
One hour.
-
Kev
For those wondering about timezones :)
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
stpeter
hi Ralph and Fritzy!
-
Fritzy
howdy
-
Kev
Right, enough time to graba sammich :)
-
linuxwolf
!agenda
-
linuxwolf
Kanchil+ is so capricious
-
stpeter
maybe Kanchil ain't feeling so plus today
-
Kev
!agenda
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 1) Roll call 2) Agenda bashing 3) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Header Extensions Negotiation http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtp-hdrext.html Accept as XEP? 4) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Feedback Negotiation http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtcp-fb.html Accept as XEP? 5) Proposed XMPP Extension: Sensor-Over-XMPP http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html Accept as XEP? 6) XEP-0237: Roster Versioning Accept version 1.2? http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0237/diff/1.1/vs/1.2rc1 http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0237-1.2.html 7) Date of next meeting 8) Any other business Fini
-
Kev
Seems good to me :)
-
stpeter
:P
-
Kev
I do have a patch to make that command "anyone" instead of "owner", but haven't deployed it.
-
Kev
Anyway, it is time.
-
Kev
Fritzy, linuxwolf, ralphm: PIING :)
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 1) Roll call
-
Kev
I'm here
-
linuxwolf
pong
-
Kev
MattJ sent apologies.
-
ralphm
woot
-
Kev
Fritzy: you there?
-
Fritzy
yeah
-
Kev
Jolly good.
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 2) Agenda bashing
-
Fritzy
I like what we have today
-
Kev
No-one, then?
-
Kev
Jolly good :)
-
linuxwolf
I'd like to talk about..
-
linuxwolf
gah…slow down there, Tex
-
stpeter
:)
-
Kev
:)
-
linuxwolf
moving carbons fwd (-:
-
linuxwolf
that's it
-
Kev
!agendaappend Moving carbons forward.
-
Kanchil+
Kev: Done.
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 3) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Header Extensions Negotiation http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtp-hdrext.html Accept as XEP?
-
Kev
I'm ok with this.
-
linuxwolf
+1
-
Fritzy
it seems fine to me +1
-
Kev
ralphm: ?
-
ralphm
I was wondering if sdp is used in combination with jingle
-
dwd
A question - is there any mileage in having entities advertise supported RTP headers via Disco as well?
-
dwd
ralphm, We basically use the same semantics as SDP but within an XML syntax, in Jingle.
-
ralphm
right
-
Kev
You know, CSN would be useful in MUCs sometimes...
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
stpeter
dwd: sounds like a good question to ask on the jingle@ list
-
stpeter
Kev: in meetings, yes
-
Fritzy
dwd: I think that could be useful, and could easily be added to the spec... but I don't know the answer.
-
linuxwolf
to the list!
-
Kev
ralphm: Did you have an opinion on it right now?
-
Fritzy
I mean, it's already there
-
ralphm
I'm +1
-
Kev
Ta.
-
Kev
I'm assuming dwd volunteered to mail the list with the question.
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 4) Proposed XMPP Extension: Jingle RTP Feedback Negotiation http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/rtcp-fb.html Accept as XEP?
-
Kev
I'm similarly +1 on this.
-
linuxwolf
also +1
-
Fritzy
yup, along the same lines +1
-
Kev
ralphm: ?
-
dwd
So as this is another SDP reframed, is it worth considering making a generic SDP-in-XML specification somewhere instead?
-
dwd
Otherwise someone has to "port" each new SDPism into Jingle, which seems unfortunate.
-
stpeter
dwd: I don't think SDP is generically-structured enough for that to be possible
-
linuxwolf
I seem to recall some attempt at that, but SDP isn't generic enough
-
linuxwolf
gah…beat by the saint
-
ralphm
+1
-
ralphm
dwd: right, that was really my point earlier but I got distracted
-
Kev
dwd: Is that volunteering to bring stuff up on list again?
-
ralphm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/95534/Jingle-Multimedia-Description-Using-SDP
-
ralphm
is something I found
-
dwd
I never volunteer. I might assign a staff member, though.
-
ralphm
which looks horrible
-
Fritzy
haha, there you go
-
linuxwolf
maybe the council can volunteer dwd
-
linuxwolf
(-:
-
dwd
I can delegate to an underling. :-)
-
ralphm
minion, is the term
-
stpeter
I didn't realize dwd had minions
-
stpeter
heh
-
Kev
Oh, well, that's one way of wrapping SDP, I suppose.
-
linuxwolf
or peon
-
dwd
stpeter, Henchmen.
-
Fritzy
I have authenticated linuxwolf's identity by his backwards smile
-
linuxwolf
(-;
-
Kev
Ok, moving on then.
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 5) Proposed XMPP Extension: Sensor-Over-XMPP http://www.xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html Accept as XEP?
-
linuxwolf
oof
-
Fritzy
so, I have a concern
-
linuxwolf
that was a hard hard read
-
Kev
This one has enough problems that I'm tempted to -1 it.
-
dwd
I read most of that one. At least the first 270 pages.
-
Kev
Let me find them.
-
Fritzy
using pubsub to send commands (actuators in this case) is a mis-use.
-
linuxwolf
agreed
-
Kev
Fritzy: Actually, that's one thing that I'm not *too* worried about.
-
linuxwolf
the structuring is awkward…and the differences in timestamping..and ....
-
dwd
Fritzy, Erm... Perhaps. Queueing commands that should be processed by available actuators seems like a non-misuse.
-
Kev
The semantics seem to fit.
-
ralphm
I never considered solving this problem domain so generically
-
stpeter
dwd: I'll volunteer you for the IESG, then you'll find out about reading long documents...
-
Fritzy
really, this spec could be watered down to a payload schema and some basic intro.
- linuxwolf is surprised stpeter's desk has not collapsed from the weight of printed I-Ds
-
Kev
I had general XEPpish concerns. The XSD should be at the end, not upfront. The use cases shouldn't be duplicated.
-
Kev
Quibbles like SHOULDs for naming, with UUIDs ,and _data/_meta.
-
Kev
Wondering why it advertises iPhones particularly.
-
dwd
Kev, Also there was some redundant text, like the repeated use cases.
-
stpeter
Kev: right, and the timestamp stuff etc.
-
Fritzy
dwd: subtle
-
Kev
Extensibility should probably be through namespaced children, not through generic name/value pairs.
-
ralphm
for one thing I'd assume using URIs for defining types
-
dwd
Fritzy, In a brickesque manner.
-
Kev
Fritzy: From the department of redundancy department.
-
linuxwolf
it seems like something that could be split up
-
Kev
The examples aren't actually protocol examples, so there's no easy way of following what actually happens.
-
dwd
Personally I shuddered a bit at the bit where you specify the SI prefix.
-
Kev
I realised after reading that I hadn't noticed a namespace anywhere.
-
Fritzy
there is almost no protocol here
-
Fritzy
it is just a payload schema
-
Fritzy
with some naming convention advice
-
stpeter
ralphm's point is a good one -- do we need such a generic approach? (and have other standards groups defined such an approach already so that we can reuse their schema?)
-
ralphm
dwd: that too, I'd expect a numeric exponent
-
Kev
Fritzy: Yes, but that's not a good reason not to have a couple of example stanzas, just so you can see what's happening.
-
Kev
IMHO.
-
Fritzy
but yeah, I really dislike the idea of sending commands over pubsub -- especially the way they are.
-
stpeter
on the plus side, it does use "atto", "zepto", and "yocto" ;-)
-
linuxwolf
the few examples I think I see are partial protocol
-
Kev
stpeter: Yes, I was wondering if that was a plus side when I read it :)
-
linuxwolf
stpeter: yeah, I didn't see that as a plus (-:
-
Kev
linuxwolf: Yeah, but not whole stanzas, and not (I think) namespaced.
-
linuxwolf
definitely not namespaces
-
linuxwolf
s/namespaces/namespaced/
-
Kev
Which makes this invalid to implement, even if you read through all the pages.
-
ralphm
stpeter: tradionally, we've defined very application specific protocols, formats
-
stpeter
ralphm: right
-
ralphm
e.g. we used our own geo/address stuff instead of horribly long specs
-
Fritzy
yeah, I'm not opposed to this being a XEP
-
ralphm
and defined mappings, where needed
-
Kev
I don't know, this could be cleaned up, without significant underlying changes probably, so maybe I shouldn't block it.
-
dwd
One thing I did like is that none of the protocol actually defined anything new - this can be done, as I understand things, with a generic XEP-0060 service.
-
Kev
I don't object to the approach, I object to the document.
-
Fritzy
They should use ad-hoc commands for commands.
-
linuxwolf
heh
-
Kev
So I'm +/-0
-
Fritzy
and Matt earns another $.25
-
ralphm
dwd: we have multiple "payload format" specs, maybe this should be one
-
stpeter
BTW, I've been talking of late with a number of "smart grid" / "smart energy" folks and OASIS is defining a whole raft of payload formats, which we could send over XMPP instead of their current default (which is web services)
-
linuxwolf
Fritzy: tell hildjj he owes me $0.25
-
Kev
stpeter: Excellent.
-
Fritzy
ralphm: agreed
-
Fritzy
stpeter: I've talked to some of those types too... but it's been about a year.
-
linuxwolf
sounds like we should link this XEP's authors with those folks
-
ralphm
I'm still not convinced it should be defined at the XSF, though
-
stpeter
(and in fact a number of people in the smart grid space are already using XMPP)
-
Kev
Ok, so, what does everyone think at this stage? I'm +-0
-
linuxwolf
-0
-
stpeter
hey, no +/- voting :P
-
Kev
-0 then :p
-
linuxwolf
that's the ticket!
-
Fritzy
sqrt(-1)
-
linuxwolf
Fritzy has to be irrational
-
Fritzy
I think this should be redrafted as an informational spec.
-
Fritzy
but perhaps...
-
Kev
Fritzy: Are you vetoing or not vetoing? (And ralphm the same)
-
Fritzy
thinking... give me a second
-
ralphm
-0
-
Fritzy
I don't want to discourage them from resubmitting, but I think they should resubmit.
-
Fritzy
I don't think this should go into experimental.
-
Fritzy
not in the standards track
-
Kev
So that's a veto, then?
-
linuxwolf
so that's -1?
-
Fritzy
yeah, -1
-
Kev
Ok, ta.
-
stpeter
units="celcius"?
-
ralphm
oh, -1 then
-
ralphm
:-D
-
Fritzy
units=votes
-
ralphm
obviously that should be Kelvin
-
Kev
ralphm: I'm to assume that's flippant, yes?
-
ralphm
Kev: yeah
-
Kev
Fritzy: You'll need to write up an explanation to standards@, with why it's vetod, and what the path forward is then :)
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 6) XEP-0237: Roster Versioning Accept version 1.2? http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0237/diff/1.1/vs/1.2rc1 http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0237-1.2.html
-
Kev
+1
-
linuxwolf
+1
-
Fritzy
Kev, will do
-
MattJ
+1 :)
-
linuxwolf
whoa
-
Kev
He's there!
-
Kev
Kinda.
-
ralphm
+1
-
MattJ
Yeah, kinda
-
Fritzy
+1
-
MattJ
In a busy office (that isn't mine), but I managed to get them to set me up with a network connection
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 7) Moving carbons forward.
-
Fritzy
I'm in a castle.
-
linuxwolf
heh
-
linuxwolf
ok, so
-
linuxwolf
I'm hearing of lots of interest, and we've had a modicum of list discuss
-
Kev
linuxwolf: I have changes I want to make to this, that depend upon MattJ's as-yet-unsubmitted stuff.
-
linuxwolf
Kev: right
-
Kev
So I propose that Matt submits http://doomsong.co.uk/extensions/render/forwarding.html
-
linuxwolf
I'm agreed, and ready to make the edits…once I have something to reference
- Fritzy looks up Modicum.
-
Kev
I update Carbons.
-
Kev
Or you do :)
-
Kev
Then we can advance it :)
-
MattJ
Sure
-
linuxwolf
I'm happy to update it
-
linuxwolf
it == message carbons
-
ralphm
so what is that the council needs to do now?
-
Kev
ralphm: Council, nothing. Council members (Matt/Matt) need to do stuff :)
-
linuxwolf
cajole Matthew into submitting forwarding (-:
-
Kev
With MattJ first.
-
MattJ
Yeah ok... perhaps I can set aside some time on Saturday
-
MattJ
I've been having lots of discussions that I need to incorporate
-
linuxwolf
/nod
-
Kev
MattJ: Oh, changes to this?
-
linuxwolf
I have some security concerns with as currently defined, but will wait until you have the update
- MattJ reads Kev's changes to recall
-
linuxwolf
s/with as/with it as/
-
stpeter
in time for next week's meeting I hope to review XEP-0065 one more time and perhaps request a vote on the revisions
-
Kev
stpeter: Ok, great.
-
stpeter
(trying to finish off the file transfer stuff)
-
linuxwolf
ooo…I'm just about down with a first draft BCP on resource locking
-
linuxwolf
(finally)
-
Kev
Great.
-
MattJ
65? I need to update my implementation for that
-
Kev
So, we're done with this, I think.
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 8) Date of next meeting
-
Kev
Next Wednesday 1600 GMT?
-
MattJ
Kev, the lacking thing in MAM/forwarding is specifying an archive-unique id for the message
-
Fritzy
I'm good with that. +1
-
MattJ
+1 for next week
-
linuxwolf
sure
-
Kev
MattJ: I thought that'd go in MAM, but it can go in forwarding I guess. That makes sense.
-
stpeter
MattJ: please have a look at http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0065-1.8.html and http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0065/diff/1.7/vs/1.8rc3 :)
-
MattJ
stpeter, thanks
-
MattJ
I also wanted to implement the Jingle IBB stuff at the same time
-
MattJ
Currently Verse only does Jingle+proxy65
-
Kev
Ok.
-
Kev
!agendaup
-
Kanchil+
Kev: 9) Any other business
-
Kev
Anything else?
-
MattJ
Nay
-
Fritzy
0
-
linuxwolf
world peace?
-
Kev
linuxwolf: Thanks for volunteering.
-
Fritzy
whirled peas
-
linuxwolf
I'd just nuke'em all
-
ralphm
Fritzy: peashake?
-
stpeter
calendar updated
-
Kev
Ok, then I guess we're done.
-
linuxwolf
humus?
-
Kev
stpeter: Thanks.
-
MattJ
Thanks stpeter
-
Kev
I'll do minutes tomorrowish.
-
Kev
I think we're done then
-
Fritzy
rad
-
Kev
Thanks all
-
Fritzy
thanks
- Kev bangs the gavel
- linuxwolf waits fwding
- stpeter has had no time to work on an April 1 spec, maybe next year...
-
Kev
!agendaup -10
-
Kanchil+
Kev: -1) Fini.
-
MattJ
Kev, FTR I'm happy with the decision on sensor-over-XMPP, but I'll look at the Jingle stuff later
-
linuxwolf
adios all
-
Kev
MattJ: Ok, thanks.
- stpeter likes Kev's 30-minute meeting philosophy
-
MattJ
:)
-
stpeter
oh yay, another round of AUTH48 review just arrived in my inbox
-
stpeter
http://www.rfc-editor.org/authors/rfc6121-diff.html in case you're curious :)
-
dwd
How long has your 48 hours been so far?
-
stpeter
about 47 so far
-
stpeter
er
-
stpeter
no
-
stpeter
23
-
stpeter
I try to be quick