XSF logo XMPP Council - 2011-04-27


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  22. stpeter good morning, afternoon, or evening as the case may be
  23. Kev Afternoon Peter.
  24. MattJ Afternoon
  25. Fritzy has joined
  26. Kev !agendaclear
  27. Kanchil+ Kev: Done.
  28. Kev !agendaappend Vote on advancing XEP-0261 (Jingle In-Band Bytestreams Transport Method) to Draft http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-March/024267.html
  29. Kanchil+ Kev: Done.
  30. Kev !agendaappend Update XEP-0178 (Best Practices for Use of SASL EXTERNAL with Certificates) with the interim version 1.1rc5: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0178-1.1.html http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0178/diff/1.0/vs/1.1rc5
  31. Kanchil+ Kev: Done.
  32. Kev !agendaappend Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html as a XEP?
  33. Kanchil+ Kev: Done.
  34. Kev !agendaappend Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP?
  35. Kanchil+ Kev: Done.
  36. Kev !agendaappend Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP?
  37. Kanchil+ Kev: Done.
  38. Kev !agenda
  39. Kanchil+ Kev: 1) Roll call 2) Agenda bashing 3) Vote on advancing XEP-0261 (Jingle In-Band Bytestreams Transport Method) to Draft http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2011-March/024267.html 4) Update XEP-0178 (Best Practices for Use of SASL EXTERNAL with Certificates) with the interim version 1.1rc5: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0178-1.1.html http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0178/diff/1.0/vs/1.1rc5 5) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html as a XEP? 6) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP? 7) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP? 8) Date of next meeting 9) Any other business Fini
  40. Kev !agendaup 0
  41. Kanchil+ Kev: Command 'agendaup' failed: bot/scripts/agenda.lua:41: attempt to perform arithmetic on field '?' (a nil value)
  42. Kev !agendaup -10
  43. Kanchil+ Kev: Command 'agendaup' failed: bot/scripts/agenda.lua:41: attempt to perform arithmetic on field '?' (a nil value)
  44. Kev Hrmph.
  45. Kev Silly Lua.
  46. Kev !agendaup
  47. Kanchil+ Kev: Command 'agendaup' failed: bot/scripts/agenda.lua:41: attempt to perform arithmetic on field '?' (a nil value)
  48. linuxwolf has joined
  49. linuxwolf /whew
  50. Fritzy I apologize for my absence last week.
  51. stpeter :)
  52. remko has joined
  53. Kev Right, I guess we should think about starting.
  54. linuxwolf is thinking
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  57. Kanchil+ Kev: Done.
  58. Kanchil+ Kev: Done.
  59. Kanchil+ Kev: 1) Roll call 2) Agenda bashing 3) Vote on advancing XEP-0261 (Jingle In-Band Bytestreams Transport 4) Update XEP-0178 (Best Practices for Use of SASL EXTERNAL with 5) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html as a XEP? 6) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP? 7) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP? 8) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP? 9) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP? 10) Date of next meeting 11) Any other business Fini
  60. Kanchil+ Kev: 0) Fini.
  61. Kanchil+ Kev: -10) Fini.
  62. Kanchil+ Kev: -9) Fini.
  63. Kev Yay, fixed
  64. Kev !agendaup 9
  65. Kanchil+ Kev: 0) Fini.
  66. Kev Let's start!
  67. Kev I don't see Ralph online
  68. Kev !agendaup
  69. Kanchil+ Kev: 1) Roll call
  70. Fritzy Yay Lua!
  71. linuxwolf presente
  72. Fritzy here
  73. stpeter increases the window size
  74. stpeter ack, no sign of Ralph
  75. emcho has joined
  76. Kev MattJ: There?
  77. MattJ Present
  78. linuxwolf yay
  79. Kev !agendaup
  80. Kanchil+ Kev: 2) Agenda bashing
  81. Fritzy whoah, lag
  82. Fritzy None
  83. MattJ No bashing
  84. MattJ (yet)
  85. stpeter heh
  86. stpeter I don't think I have any bashing
  87. linuxwolf nay
  88. Kev Good enough
  89. Kev !agendaup
  90. Kanchil+ Kev: 3) Vote on advancing XEP-0261 (Jingle In-Band Bytestreams Transport
  91. linuxwolf I will vote onlist
  92. Kev It's not clear that we've had *any* feedback on the last call.
  93. Kev +to me
  94. MattJ No, I didn't see any
  95. MattJ Plus I wanted to implement this myself, but haven't yet :)
  96. Fritzy I'll vote on list
  97. Kev Which vaguely implies that no-one thinks it's needed to fill gaps etc.
  98. Kev I can't believe this is true.
  99. MattJ Me neither, I think it's just a case that implementations aren't ready enough yet
  100. linuxwolf nods
  101. linuxwolf I do hear desire for it…might just be too new still?
  102. linuxwolf /shrug
  103. stpeter as I recall there might be implementations in Pidgin and Psi
  104. Fritzy oh really
  105. Kev Oh.
  106. stpeter not sure if those are released
  107. Kev I didn't know it was in Psi.
  108. MattJ There might be an implementation in Gajim, but I'm not 100% sure
  109. remko IBB is, not jingle
  110. remko the spec is fairly trivial to be fair ;-)
  111. stpeter well, someone poked me on-list about a Psi plugin or patch for Jingle file transfer
  112. stpeter he wanted to know when the specs would be done :)
  113. stpeter anyway we can round up the implementers
  114. remko anyway, there's a typo in it, but i think it has been caught before :)
  115. Fritzy perhaps we should contact the authors and extend last call?
  116. Kev It'd be good to have *some* last call feedback before voting on this.
  117. remko i implemented part of it, but the summer will bring more :)
  118. Kev Fritzy: Right.
  119. stpeter we need to decide if we are going to require implementations, and implementation feedback, before advancing things to Draft
  120. Kev stpeter: Given that people have implemented this, it'd be good for them to speak up.
  121. MattJ I didn't know that was up for decision :)
  122. remko stpeter: did you have the invalid xml typo in example 1 already?
  123. stpeter MattJ: it seems to be an implicit criterion here
  124. MattJ stpeter, it begs the question of the purpose of last call if we don't really need any feedback
  125. remko is there a reason why this xep is in last call btw?
  126. stpeter hmph I thought I fixed that
  127. remko shouldn't it be in last call together with all other jingle FT specs?
  128. stpeter remko: because we're trying to get the whole jingle file transfer suite to Draft
  129. Kev stpeter: It's not that it's required to have implementations - it's that Last Call gave absolutely no feedback.
  130. stpeter per http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-roadmap/
  131. remko and given that this xep only adds some jingle sprinkles on top of an existing spec, i personally would suggest waiting for implementation feedback :)
  132. stpeter and doing them all at the same time would have been too much for people to review
  133. stpeter remko: chicken and egg
  134. stpeter "oh I can't implement that, it's only experimental"
  135. stpeter however
  136. remko stpeter: right, makes sense. But the state of the ohter xeps is not up to date, which means nobody will implement this or be able to give feedback without being consistent with each other at least.
  137. stpeter I'm happy to wait
  138. Kev I'd like to extend the last call, anyway
  139. stpeter I mean, it's not like there is a huge hurry
  140. stpeter XMPP is dying anyway :)
  141. MattJ So let's update XEP-0001 for Final as the only state :)
  142. linuxwolf Kev: +1 to that
  143. MattJ +1 to an extension... 2 weeks?
  144. linuxwolf heh
  145. Fritzy >_<
  146. Kev MattJ: Seems reasonable to me.
  147. stpeter I can reach out to various people who have implemented this or have been thinking about it
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  149. MattJ stpeter, thanks, that would help
  150. Kev stpeter: That would be good, please.
  151. stpeter same with the other jingle ft specs
  152. linuxwolf /nod
  153. Kev Ok, moving on then.
  154. remko stpeter: i looked at them, i can give you feedback too ;-)
  155. Kev !agendaup
  156. Kanchil+ Kev: 4) Update XEP-0178 (Best Practices for Use of SASL EXTERNAL with
  157. MattJ with <it's a mystery>? :)
  158. Kev So broken :(
  159. Kev See the agenda sent to the mailing list :)
  160. linuxwolf Certificates) with the interim version 1.1rc
  161. linuxwolf 5
  162. linuxwolf (-:
  163. Kev I'm voting onlist on this anyway.
  164. linuxwolf ditto
  165. MattJ This, as dialback, is in my queue for thorough review
  166. Fritzy I need to take a look
  167. MattJ Dialback I'm halfway through, but not completed yet
  168. MattJ I forgot how long it was :)
  169. Kev Ok. Votes onlist in the next couple of weeks then.
  170. Kev !agendaup
  171. Kanchil+ Kev: 5) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/sensors.html as a XEP?
  172. Kev Fritzy: As I recall, you were going to post your objections to-list for the authors to address, and I don't *remember* seeing that.
  173. MattJ That's a very good question
  174. stpeter I think the Council needs to re-review XEP-0220, given the recent discussions and the fact that one of the co-authors said my handling of it was "ridiculous"
  175. Fritzy Kev: You're right.
  176. stpeter so I would propose a re-vote on the latest version (0.9)
  177. Kev stpeter: OK.
  178. MattJ If we're going for a re-vote, Kev/stpeter please put me down as -1 on the last vote rather than DNV :)
  179. linuxwolf (-:
  180. MattJ Because I do think it needs further review
  181. MattJ Anyway, sensors...
  182. linuxwolf ugh
  183. Fritzy seems like a suggested practices XEP to me except for the parts that aren't. I'm -1, and I'll post about it on the list (I failed to last time)
  184. Kev So I'm not blocking sensors, I think.
  185. Kev Ok.
  186. linuxwolf good, I can be −0 (-:
  187. MattJ I never thought I'd see a non-humorous XEP with a section titled "Transducer values"
  188. Kev Please remember that the deal is that if you're -1 you have to post with justifications and potential remedies within a fortnight of doing so.
  189. linuxwolf MattJ: At least it doesn't have "timey-wimey bits"
  190. Fritzy Kev: right
  191. Kev !agendaup
  192. Kanchil+ Kev: 6) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP?
  193. Fritzy or a "bugger' log level
  194. Kev I'm similarly not blocking this, although there seems to be list discussion as to whether it's the right aproach, it seems to be *an* approach that could be not broken.
  195. MattJ +1 to sensors, +1 to coin
  196. MattJ Yep, and I'm glad to see the discussion, but I see no reason this can't be an accepted XEP
  197. linuxwolf not blocking either
  198. MattJ Considering the number of DMUC XEPs we have :)
  199. linuxwolf haha
  200. Fritzy +1
  201. linuxwolf ok, +1 too
  202. Kev I largely think of Experimental as being "Not obviously the wrong approach"
  203. Kev Which brings us on to...
  204. Kev !agendaup
  205. Kanchil+ Kev: 7) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP?
  206. MattJ :D
  207. linuxwolf -1
  208. MattJ -1
  209. linuxwolf and I'll post some reasons why
  210. linuxwolf like "does not meet the first requirement"
  211. MattJ Can I re-post Dave's?
  212. linuxwolf MattJ: why not (-:
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  214. linuxwolf this looks like it was taken directly from an XML.com article I read awhile back
  215. MattJ linuxwolf, people read xml.com?
  216. linuxwolf which noted the deficiencies of this encoding
  217. Kev I'm -1 as well, although I'll let linuxwolf post to the list first and add to it if I have anything else on top.
  218. linuxwolf MattJ: occasionally, for the lulz (-:
  219. stpeter MattJ: it's on my list to harmonize those DMUC things, but I won't get to it until June at this rate (first I need to do i18n stuff and that's taking me a while...)
  220. MattJ linuxwolf, I thought it died a decade ago :)
  221. linuxwolf MattJ: just before XMPP died (-:
  222. MattJ stpeter, right, but again it needs to see implementation I think
  223. linuxwolf stpeter: I think we should concentrate on i18n more than DMUC...personally
  224. Fritzy I'm 0
  225. Kev !agendaup
  226. Kanchil+ Kev: 8) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/coin.html as a XEP?
  227. Kev !agendaup
  228. Kanchil+ Kev: 9) Publish http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/json.html as a XEP?
  229. Kev !agendaup
  230. Kanchil+ Kev: 10) Date of next meeting
  231. Kev There we go.
  232. MattJ Next week is fine I think
  233. Kev Next Wed, same bat time, same bat channel?
  234. linuxwolf should be fine for me, also
  235. Fritzy sure
  236. Kev Peter's not here then, hink.
  237. linuxwolf correct
  238. linuxwolf he'll be on a plane back from Amsterdam (-:
  239. stpeter linuxwolf: agreed on DMUC
  240. stpeter right, I won't be available next Wed
  241. stpeter but you guys can handle things :)
  242. Kev Righty ho.
  243. Kev !agendaup
  244. Kanchil+ Kev: 11) Any other business
  245. MattJ I was going to mention dialback, but I'll do so on-list
  246. MattJ Anyway, fippo isn't here for me to stand behind
  247. stpeter as I said, I think the Council needs to re-vote on 220 0.9
  248. linuxwolf yeah, dialback … I need to read it again, and I'm going to pester some locals to read it with me
  249. remko has left
  250. stpeter perhaps it is indeed ridiculous
  251. MattJ It doesn't seem to be so far :)
  252. stpeter but 0.8 really bothered me because it was so confusing
  253. linuxwolf I would rather the author not be confused by their own spec
  254. linuxwolf (-:
  255. MattJ I think the improvements are good overall
  256. stpeter we needed to go in one direction or another, and perhaps fippo didn't like the direction I took
  257. Kev So we've got got anything for AOB?
  258. stpeter his statements were a bit cryptic to me
  259. Kev Beyond adding 220 for next week, which is in my TODO.
  260. stpeter none here
  261. MattJ stpeter, he's given me similar cryptic statements this morning that I need to decipher :)
  262. linuxwolf Kev: it doesn't sound like it…but we do have an agenda item for next week (-: (XEP-0220)
  263. linuxwolf gah…meatspace lag
  264. waqas has left
  265. stpeter per remko's comments, I think it might be useful to update XEP-0234 before pushing forward with the rest of the Jingle FT suite
  266. Kev Righty ho. Are we dones then?
  267. linuxwolf (T −0:02)
  268. stpeter remko and I were just chatting via PM, and he noted that 234 is wildly out of sync with 260/261
  269. linuxwolf hrm
  270. stpeter I have 234 printed and will review it on the plane or in an airport sometime in the next week
  271. linuxwolf /nod
  272. waqas has joined
  273. stpeter so we could do 260, 261, and 234 together
  274. stpeter that makes sense to me
  275. stpeter not in a huge hurry :)
  276. MattJ :)
  277. linuxwolf sounds good to me
  278. Kev I think that's a "we're done".
  279. Kev So
  280. stpeter yep
  281. linuxwolf "are we done yet?"
  282. Kev bangs the gavel
  283. stpeter done
  284. Kev Thanks all.
  285. linuxwolf (-:
  286. linuxwolf adios
  287. Kev I'll sort out minutes tomorrow or so.
  288. linuxwolf rushes to next meeting
  289. stpeter "are we *almost* done yet"? ;-)
  290. MattJ I'm still trying to figure out what "meatspace lag" entails
  291. linuxwolf I'll get comments about json by Friday
  292. stpeter MattJ: IRL interrupt?
  293. MattJ Possibly :)
  294. stpeter that's my interpretation
  295. stpeter OK
  296. linuxwolf MattJ: "engineer needs coffee badly"
  297. MattJ Heh
  298. linuxwolf and some interuptions
  299. stpeter I need to pack for my trip
  300. linuxwolf anyway…I'm late! (-:
  301. stpeter I'll be in and out, but mostly out
  302. linuxwolf has left
  303. Fritzy thanks guys
  304. Fritzy has left
  305. stpeter I still need to read all the position papers for http://www.w3.org/2011/track-privacy/ -- I suppose I'll be doing that on the plane today :)
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