Wednesday, September 28, 2011
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[14:44:37] <linuxwolf> T −20? just enough time to get caffeine!
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[14:44:43] <Kev> Yep.
[14:49:28] <stpeter> gosh, the identi.ca XMPP interface just seems to be dead, eh?
[14:49:49] <Kev> I don't know, I've not dented via XMPP for a long time.
[14:50:14] <stpeter> I gave up denting, for the most part
[14:50:25] <stpeter> because there's no XMPP interface any longer
[14:50:33] <stpeter> might as well just use Twitter at that point
[14:50:35] <dwd> I was astonished at how much more productive I became when I turned the XMPP feed off.
[14:50:48] <stpeter> dwd: you've become productive?!?
[14:51:01] <dwd> stpeter, More productive. Relative, not absolute.
[14:51:30] <dwd> Reminds me, I should probably update my Board application, given I have become even more managerial as of today. :-)
[14:51:47] <stpeter> dwd: congrats, I hope
[14:52:19] <dwd> stpeter, As "VP Engineering (XMPP)", I need that as a Form 538/B, in triplicate.
[14:54:38] <dwd> Mind you, no point in updating my board application if nobody else is standing. :-/
[14:55:06] <stpeter> dwd: recruitment in progress behind the scenes
[14:55:17] <stpeter> I'm also poking people about standing for Council
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[14:55:57] <Kev> I'll be filling out a Council app at some point.
[14:55:58] <stpeter> OT: I'm chatting in another tab with one of the OTR guys, and we're aiming to publish an initial Internet-Draft by the end of October
[14:56:04] <Kev> That'd be nice.
[14:56:37] <Kev> Get a XEP published and I imagine we'd be interested in putting support in Swift :)
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[14:57:48] <Kev> Ouch. Kindles just got silly-cheap. So very tempting.
[14:57:55] <stpeter> Kev: given that OTR is not an XMPP-specific technology (or even XMPP-friendly at this point, although I hope to influence its direction in that regard), I think the IETF is the right place to publish this spec
[14:57:58] <stpeter> did they?
[14:58:16] <Kev> stpeter: Right. I was assuming OTR would be RFCd, and then a XEP would explain how to use it for XMPP.
[14:58:22] <stpeter> Kev: yes
[14:58:25] <Kev> I don't much care if an RFC defines how to use it for XMPP instead.
[14:58:29] <stpeter> Kev: or, probably
[14:58:30] <Kev> Just that there's an implementable spec.
[14:58:35] <stpeter> right :)
[14:58:51] <Kev> The article I'm reading says the base Kindle just became $79.
[14:59:05] <Kev> Had that happened a fortnight ago I'd have come home with one.
[14:59:07] <stpeter> I do think we'd want to at least define more Jabberish ways to discover support for OTR, but that's easy
[14:59:11] <dwd> Kev, UK prices haven't appeared to change.
[14:59:19] <Kev> dwd: Why would they? :)
[14:59:34] <stpeter> perhaps the price change hasn't take effect yet, still $114 at the website
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[15:01:07] *stpeter tries to finish an email to the hybi@ietf.org list before the Council meeting
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[15:03:01] <MattJ> You're brave
[15:03:28] <stpeter> I'm the responsible AD so I'm trying to be responsible :)
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[15:04:42] <Kev> And ... ding.
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[15:04:52] <Kev> So.
[15:05:00] <Kev> 1) Roll call
[15:05:01] <Kev> I'm here.
[15:05:17] <linuxwolf> presente
[15:05:25] <ralphm> and me
[15:06:05] <MattJ> me too
[15:06:11] <Kev> Excellents.
[15:06:21] <Kev> 2) 258-to-Draft.
[15:06:24] <ralphm> eh
[15:06:27] <ralphm> agenda?
[15:06:47] <Kev> ralphm: Mail thread was called 'Meeting 20110928'.
[15:06:52] <ralphm> heh
[15:07:06] <ralphm> I meant I want to bash it
[15:07:13] <MattJ> Ha
[15:07:13] <ralphm> adding FOSDEM to it
[15:07:17] <MattJ> AOB? :)
[15:07:22] <Kev> Oh. We decided some weeks ago not to bash agendas in the meetings anymore, as you can do that on list prior.
[15:07:26] <Kev> Leave it for AOB :)
[15:07:40] <stpeter> by "258-to-Draft" you mean "issuing a Last Call", not voting, right?
[15:07:48] <Kev> stpeter: I do.
[15:07:54] <linuxwolf> (-:
[15:07:54] <MattJ> Great, I'm +1 then
[15:07:58] <linuxwolf> +1 also
[15:08:07] <Kev> Or, rather, I mean "The Author's requested we consider it for advancement to Draft, so we should vote on Last Calling it".
[15:08:19] <MattJ> Security labels may become one of my favourite XEPs
[15:08:40] <MattJ> I have favourite XEPs, wow.
[15:08:46] <ralphm> +1
[15:08:49] <Kev> I have a long-standing grumble about hierachies being a nuisance to represent, but I'm +1 on LCing.
[15:08:56] <ralphm> MattJ: that took a while
[15:09:03] <MattJ> Heh
[15:09:09] <ralphm> Kev: nod
[15:09:23] <stpeter> this will force me to finally read it carefully
[15:09:31] <linuxwolf> heh
[15:09:32] <dwd> MattJ, How can you like 258? Not even a prime number.
[15:09:47] *linuxwolf goes to kill a branch
[15:09:52] <Kev> Ok.
[15:09:59] <Kev> 3) MUC-unique.
[15:10:21] <MattJ> Yes...
[15:10:25] <ralphm> linuxwolf: you hate trees?
[15:10:26] <linuxwolf> well, it's certainly started a conversation at least
[15:10:42] <linuxwolf> ralphm: yes, and I demonstrate it by printing XEPs and RFCs
[15:11:29] <MattJ> How about we publish it as experimental, and have people put their code where their mouth is? :)
[15:11:49] <linuxwolf> I've no objections to accepting it
[15:11:58] <Kev> I think I'm the last person who wanted to keep it, and I've finally accepted that it can die.
[15:12:04] <linuxwolf> heh
[15:12:05] <Kev> But I've no objection to accepting it.
[15:12:31] <MattJ> It's not the end of the world if it dies, but I see no reason to when some people are in favour of keeping it
[15:12:48] <MattJ> It's already implemented in places, so having that document would be useful regardless
[15:12:52] <Kev> It does offer things that client-generated things don't.
[15:12:53] <linuxwolf> /nod
[15:12:57] <linuxwolf> eh
[15:13:00] <ralphm> +1 on accepting MUC-unique
[15:13:16] <dwd> FWIW, M-Link implements MUC-unique, but I don't think it needs to be in the core spec.
[15:13:35] <linuxwolf> it would be more efficient than what a client can do by itself, but it is possible to do unique rooms with only a client
[15:13:52] <ralphm> Although I wondered if we shouldn't just make an iq set for creating the room
[15:14:06] <MattJ> linuxwolf, in 99.9999999999% of cases it would be less efficient than the client just making up a room name
[15:14:12] <linuxwolf> ralphm: that boat sailed many years ago…unless we work on MUC-NG (-:
[15:14:31] <ralphm> linuxwolf: I don't see how it would interfere with XEP-0045
[15:14:36] <Kev> linuxwolf: It is possible to make unique rooms with only a client. MUC-Unique lets the server do more than guarantee unique room names, if it so wishes.
[15:14:37] <linuxwolf> MattJ: slightly less efficient (-:
[15:14:49] <ralphm> now rooms are simply created implicitly
[15:14:56] <Kev> In any case. We've all agreed to accept it, so yay.
[15:15:07] <linuxwolf> Kev: sure, I get that, but it's not like a client can't make the same guarantees before it displays the room GUI
[15:15:08] <ralphm> and there would be no reason add protocol to create rooms explicitly
[15:15:22] <Kev> 4) Date of next meeting.
Peter said he wasn't around next week, I think. Do we want a meeting regardless?
[15:15:24] <linuxwolf> I should know, I've implemented that to customers' satisfaction in the past
[15:15:29] <linuxwolf> (-:
[15:15:32] <ralphm> expecially if you need to do something special for creating unique ones
[15:15:43] <ralphm> especially, too
[15:15:49] <MattJ> I've no objection to meeting without stpeter if there's stuff to discuss
[15:15:57] <linuxwolf> regarding next meeting, next still works for me…if we have something to do
[15:15:59] <stpeter> right, I shan't be online then
[15:16:02] <MattJ> if stpeter has no objection to us meeting without him, which I suspect he won't :)
[15:16:08] <Kev> Ok, shall we plan for next week, and skip it if we lack things that need action.
[15:16:12] <linuxwolf> stpeter: staycation afficianado!
[15:16:12] <ralphm> +1
[15:16:14] <stpeter> MattJ: no objections here
[15:16:14] <MattJ> +1
[15:16:17] <linuxwolf> +1
[15:16:23] <Kev> SBTSBC, then.
[15:16:25] <Kev> 6) AOB.
[15:16:26] <Kev> FOSDEM!
[15:16:37] <stpeter> I'll add the meeting to the calendar
[15:16:41] <Kev> Thanks.
[15:17:32] <ralphm> I'll request a room
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[15:18:09] <MattJ> Thanks
[15:19:04] <Kev> Thanks.
[15:19:08] <Kev> Anything else?
[15:19:13] <linuxwolf> nay from me
[15:19:18] <MattJ> Me neither
[15:19:23] <ralphm> Who's planning on going"?
[15:19:39] <dwd> To FOSDEM? I will be.
[15:20:06] <linuxwolf> I'll have to see
[15:20:25] <Kev> I imagine I'll be, short of fluishness.
[15:20:36] <MattJ> I'll be going
[15:20:49] <stpeter> not sure yet
[15:20:52] <MattJ> Kev, it wasn't the same without you... :)
[15:21:08] <linuxwolf> (-:
[15:21:09] <Kev> I'm sure. 'Not the same' covers a multitude of sins.
[15:21:14] <Kev> Ok, I think we're done then.
[15:21:15] <MattJ> Heh
[15:21:17] <Kev> Thanks all.
[15:21:22] <linuxwolf> grazie
[15:21:24] *Kev bangs the gavel.
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[15:21:35] *linuxwolf waves
[15:21:56] *ralphm rides the waves
[15:22:03] <MattJ> Thanks
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[15:26:26] <Kev> Re: New Kindles.
[15:26:32] <Kev> Sems they've now hit the .com and .co.uk websites.
[15:26:37] <Kev> So .com now offers for $79
[15:26:45] <Kev> and .co.uk now offers for £89.
[15:27:24] <dwd> Indeed... I wonder how much the 3G version is.
[15:27:38] <Kev> £149
[15:27:46] <MattJ> Spotify Premium UK: £10, Spotify Premium US: $10
[15:27:46] <Kev> According to the homepage.
[15:27:55] <Kev> MattJ: Yes, that's fairly normal.
[15:28:11] <Kev> Costing *more* in absolute GBP than USD is quite impressive, though.
[15:28:28] <stpeter> yep, http://www.amazon.com/ has been updated here too
[15:29:16] <dwd> Oh, I see - this is a new keyboard-less kindle.
[15:29:27] <stpeter> which, the Touch?
[15:29:33] <Kev> Both.
[15:29:36] *stpeter finishes his email to the hybi wg
[15:29:37] <Kev> Or all three, rather.
[15:30:41] <MattJ> FWIW a Kindle died on me last night
[15:30:50] <MattJ> to make matters worse, it wasn't mine
[15:31:08] <stpeter> erk
[15:31:10] <linuxwolf> /-:
[15:31:14] <MattJ> The screen has failed somehow, half of it is frozen and won't update
[15:31:19] <linuxwolf> my nookColor is still going strong
[15:31:29] <MattJ> I prefer e-ink :)
[15:31:38] <stpeter> the books I read never experience screen failure
[15:31:41] <linuxwolf> MattJ: I learned to give up and love the LCD (-:
[15:31:53] <linuxwolf> it works well enough for me on the bus and at bus stops
[15:31:53] <MattJ> stpeter, that's the first thing someone said to me :)
[15:31:56] <linuxwolf> which are largely outdoors
[15:31:58] <stpeter> :P
[15:32:16] <MattJ> Unfortunately the books I wanted to take with me to the US wouldn't fit in my suitcase
[15:32:30] <stpeter> MattJ: yeah, there is that
[15:32:40] *stpeter thinks of his upcoming trip to Taipei
[15:32:52] <linuxwolf> /nod
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[15:45:01] <stpeter> email sent, tweet posted :P
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[16:18:45] <stpeter> aha, if you want the cheaper prices on the Kindles then you must agree to receive "special offer" screensavers -- advertising FTW
[16:19:05] <MattJ> Ha
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[18:26:07] <ralphm> no such thing as a free lunch
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[18:43:30] <stpeter> TANSTAAFL, baby!
[18:46:20] <linuxwolf> more bikesheds!
[18:47:31] <stpeter> well it looks like I'll be around for next week's Council meeting, change of PTO plans...
[18:47:37] <linuxwolf> oh no
[18:47:39] <ralphm> let's paint it red
[18:47:41] <stpeter> bbiaf
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