Wednesday, January 25, 2012
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[15:57:10] *stpeter sends a five minute warning via identi.ca
[15:57:37] <Kev> Thanks.
[15:57:44] <Kev> I got caught up, forgot to send a mail to the list.
[15:57:47] *stpeter nods
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[16:00:32] <ralphm> Hello Fans!
[16:00:32] *** linuxwolf shows as "dnd" and his status message is "XSF Council"
[16:01:18] <Kev> Howdy.
[16:01:20] <Kev> 1minute to ...
[16:01:23] <Kev> No minutes to go.
[16:01:34] <Kev> I don't see a MattJ here or in my roster.
[16:01:39] <Tobias> hi
[16:01:53] <Kev> Right.
[16:01:55] <Kev> 1) Roll call
[16:02:00] <Kev> IIIIIII'm here.
[16:02:09] <linuxwolf> presente
[16:02:10] *ralphm too, for a change
[16:02:16] *linuxwolf gasps
[16:02:34] <stpeter> aha
[16:02:43] *stpeter apologizes to linuxwolf
[16:02:49] <linuxwolf> ??
[16:03:00] <stpeter> for PM pokage when you were already here :)
[16:03:00] <Kev> 2) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/pubsub-uri.html
Accept as Experimental?
[16:03:03] <linuxwolf> hehe
[16:03:21] <Kev> I'm -1 on this on the basis that Board have recommended we talk to IETF folks first.
[16:03:26] <ralphm> Kev: that
[16:03:40] <ralphm> Kev: also, I wonder if this couldn't be done within the current xmpp schema
[16:04:23] <Kev> ralphm: Possibly, although not easily, perhaps.
[16:04:31] <ralphm> Kev: wait what?
[16:04:54] <ralphm> Kev: xmpp:pubsub.ik.nu?;node=test;id=itemid
[16:05:16] <Kev> I said only perhaps.
[16:05:30] <Kev> I'm aware there are simple cases for which it's blindingly obvious how to do it :)
[16:05:32] *** Kooda shows as "online"
[16:05:49] <Zash> Doesn't the proposed format conflict with full jids?
[16:05:49] <ralphm> oh, it's 'item', not 'id'
[16:06:07] <stpeter> I tend to agree with Ralph -- we have a way to do this using the existing scheme
[16:06:23] <linuxwolf> and I'm loathe to add to the scheme registry
[16:06:26] <ralphm> XEP-0060 examples 225-228
[16:06:35] <Kev> Zash: I don't remember, I read it yesterday, I've forgotten it by now.
[16:06:46] <Zash> :)
[16:06:55] <Kev> Oh, yes, I remember being unclear whether it'd end up with legal URIs or not.
[16:07:40] <Kev> Anyway, -1 for now.
[16:07:56] <Kev> Moooving on.
[16:07:58] <Kev> 3) http://doomsong.co.uk/extensions/render/xep-0311.html
Accept as Experimental?
[16:08:15] <Kev> I updated the not-quite-a-XEP-0311 so it doesn't now say "and here I stopped writing".
[16:08:23] <Kev> I think it's now ok to push.
[16:08:23] <stpeter> oh yes, the one I screwed up by publishing
[16:08:43] <linuxwolf> I've no objections to publishing as now-actually-311
[16:09:06] <ralphm> +1
[16:09:13] <Tobias> +1 on that too
[16:09:40] <Kev> Cool. My empire expands.
[16:09:46] <stpeter> :)
[16:09:51] <Kev> 4) http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0077-2.4.html

http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0077/diff/2.3/vs/2.4rc1
[16:10:27] <Kev> This just adds a disco identity, I think, which I'm fine with.
[16:10:34] <ralphm> Kev: maybe you can occupy Brussels and make it a fun place :-P
[16:10:34] <linuxwolf> exactly
[16:10:42] <Kev> It doesn't address questions of what advertising that entity *means*.
[16:10:55] <linuxwolf> +1 on −0077#2.4
[16:11:05] <Tobias> yeah..+1 on that change too.. a lot services do it that way anyway already
[16:11:07] <Kev> (i.e. M-Link would advertise it because it allows password changing, but it doesn't allow open registration)
[16:11:22] <Kev> (In fact, I think M-Link *does* advertise, although I might misremember)
[16:11:34] <linuxwolf> a lot do advertise
[16:11:37] <stpeter> Kev: right, if you support that protocol in any way, you can advertise the feature
[16:11:37] <Kev> I think for Peter's use case, which is finding if it supports registration, the stream feature is the way to go, FWIW.
[16:12:09] <Kev> ralphm: Everywhere I go is a fun place.
[16:12:19] <Kev> Almost by definition. Just not necessarily for me :)
[16:12:42] <Kev> Anyway, who're we missing? Ralph, I think we need your +-[01] still.
[16:12:47] <ralphm> Whereas for things other than IM servers, it means different every time. I'd say it just advertises understanding the protocol, nothing more.
[16:12:52] <ralphm> +1
[16:13:01] <stpeter> well, the server directory use case has other means of figuring out whether another server supports IBR, but I still think we need a way to discover jabber:iq:register support in any case
[16:13:13] <linuxwolf> /nod
[16:13:16] <Kev> stpeter: Yes, although mostly for password changing, I think.
[16:13:20] <Kev> Ok, all +1 on 77.
[16:13:30] <Kev> 5) http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0114-1.6.html

http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0114/diff/1.5/vs/1.6rc1

[16:13:36] <linuxwolf> I'd rather do a new protocol than try to fix more of −0077 for those "what does support mean"
[16:13:39] <linuxwolf> anyhoo
[16:13:50] <stpeter> linuxwolf: true indeed
[16:14:14] <ralphm> my comment was mostly about things like MUC and pubsub services and gateways that also support this namespace
[16:14:19] *Kev hands linuxwolf a tinopener and a can labeled "not worms, honest guv".
[16:14:29] <Kev> ralphm: Understood.
[16:14:32] <linuxwolf> ralphm: right … which is kind of my point
[16:14:48] <linuxwolf> and which I now realize I shouldn't have said anything (-:
[16:15:07] <Kev> I'm +1 on (5)
[16:15:09] <ralphm> I think disco rarely explains exactly what a 'feature' means. It just says 'I support this protocol'
[16:15:12] <linuxwolf> sleeping dogs left to lie
[16:15:18] <linuxwolf> anyhow
[16:15:26] <linuxwolf> +1 on −0114#1.6
[16:15:56] *Kev pokes MattJ
[16:16:16] <ralphm> +1 on 0114
[16:16:43] *Zash pokes MattJ
[16:16:52] <Kev> Tobias: ?
[16:17:00] <Tobias> yeah...+1
[16:17:12] <Kev> 6) Date of next meeting.
[16:17:27] *** MattJ has joined the room
[16:17:29] <Kev> (now) usual slot?
[16:17:31] <Tobias> hi MattJ
[16:17:38] <MattJ> Gaah, sorry, time confusal :/
[16:17:46] <stpeter> heh
[16:17:58] <linuxwolf> I have a conflict at this time next week
[16:17:58] <stpeter> I've never seen the word "confusal" before, I like it!
[16:18:02] <linuxwolf> but just next week
[16:18:03] <Kev> See if you can backlog skim and vote before we decide on date and AOB.
[16:18:19] <MattJ> Do I still have time to reject MFR again? :P
[16:18:21] <Kev> linuxwolf: Next week is bad for me anyway, so I'm happy to skip.
[16:18:27] <Kev> MattJ: You have.
[16:18:33] <ralphm> I will be in Brussels next week already
[16:18:40] <MattJ> Well I'm +1 on it, you'll be glad to know
[16:18:44] <MattJ> Just loading log now
[16:18:46] <Kev> Shall we do fortnight today?
[16:18:55] <ralphm> who will not be there next week?
[16:18:55] <linuxwolf> Kev: wfm
[16:19:03] <linuxwolf> I will not
[16:19:09] <ralphm> linuxwolf: SAD!
[16:19:12] <Tobias> k
[16:19:21] <linuxwolf> too much traveling at the end of last year … still recovering
[16:19:23] <Kev> I'll be at the summit et al.
[16:20:07] <Kev> I'll take that as a +1 from everyone on this time in a fortnight.
[16:20:23] <Kev> 7) AOB
[16:20:26] <stpeter> I'll be jet-lagged :)
[16:20:27] <Kev> Anyone?
[16:20:30] <stpeter> but probably functional
[16:20:31] <linuxwolf> "silence is acquiescence" is what I always say (-:
[16:20:40] <linuxwolf> none here
[16:20:42] <Kev> I'll be trainlagged, but I'll probably cope :)
[16:20:46] <stpeter> heh
[16:21:04] <stpeter> I need to capture votes on XEP 45
[16:21:09] <stpeter> and those from today
[16:21:11] <Kev> Oh. Sorry.
[16:21:18] <Kev> I said I'd add it to agendaness and didn.t
[16:21:23] <MattJ> 1) present, 2) -1 (afaik this is already possible with the current scheme), 3) +1 (thanks Kev), 4) +1 (Prosody already does this iirc), 5) +1 (and this), 6) +1, 7) ...
[16:21:34] <Kev> 5b) Everyone ok on the new version of MUC now?
[16:21:35] <Kev> +1
[16:21:39] <MattJ> +1
[16:21:53] <linuxwolf> I need to read it through one more time … sorry
[16:21:59] <ralphm> +1
[16:22:02] <stpeter> in fact http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/tenth-council/ is the last voting page, so I need to create one for the eleventh council :)
[16:22:06] <linuxwolf> will have a new vote before the next meeting
[16:22:15] <Kev> linuxwolf: Thanks.
[16:22:19] <Kev> Tobias: ?
[16:22:22] <ralphm> I just sent my -1 comment to standards@
[16:22:27] <Kev> ralphm: Thanks.
[16:22:38] <Tobias> Kev, kev?
[16:22:49] <Tobias> yeah..ok
[16:22:52] <Kev> "5b) Everyone ok on the new version of MUC now?"
[16:23:04] <Tobias> +1
[16:23:09] <Kev> Ta.
[16:23:13] <Kev> Now we're really done then, I think.
[16:23:18] <Tobias> yay
[16:23:21] <linuxwolf> w00t
[16:23:25] <Kev> I'll send minutes.
[16:23:26] *linuxwolf goes back to e2e
[16:23:29] <Kev> Thanks all.
[16:23:37] <ralphm> woah, 22 min.
[16:23:54] *Kev bangs gavel order go words out the so the of
[16:24:31] <ralphm> Kev: good luck with that
[16:25:26] *** linuxwolf shows as "dnd" and his status message is "in a meeting!"
[16:31:20] <stpeter> http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/eleventh-council/
[16:32:10] <Kev> Ta.
[16:32:39] *stpeter double-checks the voting record
[16:35:35] <stpeter> I wonder why 114 is Historical
[16:35:51] <ralphm> because it existed before XMPP was formalised
[16:35:56] <stpeter> yeah I know
[16:36:01] <stpeter> but still, it's so widely used
[16:36:05] <stpeter> ah well :)
[16:36:09] <Kev> Which is the exact definition of Historical :)
[16:36:26] <stpeter> yeah yeah yeah
[16:36:38] <stpeter> I'm sure it's my fault for writing XEP #1 :)
[16:37:02] <ralphm> We'll just drink to that next week
[16:37:14] <stpeter> sounds good!
[16:37:14] <linuxwolf> (-:
[16:39:48] <stpeter> OK, http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/eleventh-council/ is up to date
[16:39:57] <linuxwolf> grazie
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[18:29:48] <stpeter> you know, I'm looking forward to our advancing XEP-0045 to Final :)
[18:30:37] <Kev> We may have a way to go for that...
[18:30:57] <Kev> My recent review was, largely, only of your proposed changes for the new version, not a complete readthrough, for one thing :)
[18:31:30] <stpeter> well, my proposed changes were the result a complete readthrough :)
[18:31:36] <stpeter> that's something
[18:31:48] <stpeter> it did advance to Draft on 2002-11-21 ;-)
[18:34:16] <stpeter> Kev: did you check your changes to 311 into git? I'm probably not looking in the right branch :)
[18:34:36] <Kev> I *thought* I'd pushed them up to master.
[18:34:56] *stpeter checks
[18:34:59] <Kev> My local repo tells me I've no uncommitted changes, and no commits that haven't been pushed.
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[18:37:59] <stpeter> does http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0311/diff/0.0.1/vs/0.1 look right to you?
[18:38:22] <Kev> It does.
[18:38:40] <stpeter> OK
[18:38:41] <stpeter> thanks
[18:38:43] <Kev> Thanks :)
[18:38:51] <stpeter> I got thrown off because is said "ProtoXEP"
[18:39:11] <stpeter> thanks to Tobias as always for his work on the diff tool!
[18:40:05] *stpeter fixes the status
[18:40:14] <Tobias> still suboptimal i think...changed numbering (footnotes and stuff) etc. aren't that interesting
[18:40:29] <Kev> I think having a diff of everything that changed is useful.
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[18:47:42] <stpeter> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0311.html updated
[18:49:18] <Kev> Thanks muchly.
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