Wednesday, February 08, 2012
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[12:40:34] <Tobias> Kev, so what's on todays agenda...seems i can't make it today
[12:40:42] <Tobias> ?
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[15:50:12] *stpeter blearily wonders if there truly is a Council meeting today :)
[15:51:34] <Tobias> stpeter, yeah?!?!
[15:51:35] *stpeter also wonders why Firefox won't load on his machine anymore
[15:51:38] <Tobias> according to the calendar, there is
[15:51:45] <stpeter> Tobias: correct
[15:51:59] <stpeter> Tobias: I'm quite jetlagged, but I can participate today
[15:55:17] <linuxwolf> I almost forgot
[15:55:36] <linuxwolf> Kev did send out an agenda
[15:55:56] *stpeter looks among the 3000 messages in his inbox
[15:56:13] <linuxwolf> 2) Obsoleting XEP-0237
[15:56:16] <Tobias> yeah...deprecating roster versioning...it's deprecated if not changed for a year
[15:56:39] <Tobias> ahh..obsoleting...got that wrong
[15:57:00] <linuxwolf> well, it starts with deprecated, then goes to obsoleting … technically
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[15:59:24] <Tobias> is experimental, right?
[15:59:45] <stpeter> well right
[15:59:46] <linuxwolf> it's draft, actually
[16:00:15] <Tobias> but doesn't obsoleting/deprecating happen automatically?
[16:00:18] <stpeter> but 190, 192, 193, and 237 were all effectively obsoleted by publication of the RFCs
[16:00:24] <stpeter> Tobias: that's deferring
[16:01:00] <Tobias> stpeter, ahh..versioning got added to the RFCs
[16:01:02] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:01:13] <linuxwolf> right
[16:01:19] <Tobias> ok..then it makes sense to obsolete it
[16:01:51] <stpeter> Tobias: yes, it's in RFC 6121
[16:01:55] <ralphm> I'm here
[16:02:09] <linuxwolf> oh, it's time
[16:02:19] *** linuxwolf shows as "dnd" and his status message is "XSF Council"
[16:03:08] *stpeter has no idea what time it is :)
[16:03:25] <linuxwolf> 16:01Z
[16:03:25] <ralphm> 16:00 UTC
[16:03:36] <Tobias> right..hammertime
[16:03:41] <ralphm> STOP!
[16:03:43] <linuxwolf> heh
[16:04:32] <linuxwolf> ok, well … Kev's away
[16:04:36] <linuxwolf> anyone object to me running in Kev's absence?
[16:04:42] <ralphm> sure
[16:04:46] <ralphm> go ahead
[16:04:49] <Tobias> no objections from me
[16:05:02] <linuxwolf> grazie
[16:05:02] <linuxwolf> ok
[16:05:07] <linuxwolf> 1) Roll call
[16:05:10] <linuxwolf> presente
[16:05:14] <Tobias> here
[16:05:46] <linuxwolf> ralphm: still with us?
[16:05:47] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:06:00] <stpeter> just pinged MattJ
[16:06:09] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[16:06:11] <ralphm> yeah
[16:06:11] <linuxwolf> grazie … was just about to do that
[16:06:24] *** MattJ has joined the room
[16:06:33] <linuxwolf> and MattJ is now with us
[16:06:43] <linuxwolf> ok
[16:06:45] <MattJ> Present :)
[16:06:51] <linuxwolf> 2) Obsolete 237
[16:06:55] <ralphm> +1
[16:06:58] <MattJ> +1
[16:07:12] <linuxwolf> technically, it should move to Deprecated first
[16:07:18] <ralphm> that's stupid
[16:07:32] <ralphm> as it was obsoleted by a followup spec
[16:07:37] <ralphm> (an RFC in this case)
[16:07:41] <Tobias> +1
[16:07:46] <linuxwolf> let's say the vote is for both deprecated and obsolete
[16:07:50] <ralphm> I move we skip that step
[16:07:52] <linuxwolf> +1
[16:07:56] <ralphm> +1
[16:08:00] <MattJ> Heh, +1 :)
[16:08:04] <Tobias> +1
[16:08:11] *linuxwolf goes takes note
[16:08:22] <linuxwolf> we'll give Kev a fortnight to vote onlist
[16:08:29] <ralphm> right
[16:08:42] <linuxwolf> 3) AOB
[16:08:47] <ralphm> FOSDEM report
[16:08:47] <linuxwolf> stpeter?
[16:08:58] <linuxwolf> or ralphm — go ahead!
[16:09:03] <ralphm> ok
[16:09:04] <stpeter> BTW http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0190.html should be moved to Obsolete too
[16:09:10] <stpeter> well also 192 and 193
[16:09:16] <stpeter> the latter two are Deprecated
[16:09:19] <linuxwolf> one AOB at a time please (-:
[16:09:26] <stpeter> but we never Deprecated 190a nd 237
[16:09:28] <stpeter> just FYI :)
[16:09:29] <linuxwolf> /nod
[16:09:33] <ralphm> stpeter: noted
[16:09:38] <ralphm> So FOSDEM
[16:09:48] <ralphm> We had a splendid long weekend
[16:09:53] <stpeter> (someone at the Summit started implementing roster versioning based on XEP-0237...)
[16:09:55] <stpeter> heh
[16:09:55] <ralphm> I missed the the friday
[16:10:10] <stpeter> BTW I updated the FOSDEM / Summit notes on the plane yesterday
[16:10:11] <ralphm> but the Devroom was packed as ever
[16:10:28] <linuxwolf> nice
[16:10:32] <linuxwolf> and /-: on 237
[16:10:32] <Tobias> ralphm, was it a larger room this time?
[16:10:39] <ralphm> and the new location and set up of our real-time lounge was awesome
[16:10:45] <ralphm> especially as a first start
[16:10:49] <ralphm> Tobias: 100 seats
[16:11:11] <ralphm> Tobias: and also stricter rules on not standing in the paths/sides
[16:11:18] <ralphm> Tobias: so no
[16:11:26] <Tobias> ah..ok
[16:11:30] <MattJ> We had that room the year before last, no?
[16:11:40] <ralphm> It was a different room
[16:11:43] <MattJ> Hmm, ok
[16:11:45] <ralphm> Last year we were in AW
[16:11:45] <Tobias> do they have bigger dev rooms at all?
[16:11:49] <ralphm> they do
[16:12:04] <ralphm> but there are over 2x as many applicant projects than rooms
[16:12:25] <ralphm> we don't really have a say in it
[16:12:34] <ralphm> I think it was fine, though
[16:12:57] <stpeter> http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/summit/2012-February/001084.html
[16:13:02] <linuxwolf> noted
[16:13:02] <stpeter> updated notes
[16:13:11] <ralphm> We might shoot for one main-track speaker next year, instead of wanting a bigger room
[16:13:21] <ralphm> stpeter: many thanks for that
[16:14:16] <ralphm> For next year we'll probably do some things better/different
[16:14:56] <stpeter> oh yes
[16:14:57] <ralphm> see stpeter's notes
[16:15:03] <stpeter> yes
[16:15:15] <ralphm> also, we might want to think about moving the 'monday' to thursday instead
[16:15:21] <ralphm> i.e. 2 days before FOSDEM
[16:15:31] <stpeter> those are notes from the piratepad, but I did the majority of the scribing, I think
[16:15:37] <ralphm> that leaves us less tired and late on monday
[16:15:39] <MattJ> ralphm, what's the logic behind that?
[16:15:39] <stpeter> ralphm: we talked about that on Monday night
[16:15:45] <MattJ> Ok
[16:15:47] <stpeter> (at the "meating")
[16:15:55] <ralphm> stpeter: yeah, intosi mentioned this
[16:15:57] <stpeter> I think it's a good idea
[16:16:32] <linuxwolf> almost sorry I missed out
[16:16:39] <stpeter> heh
[16:16:41] <Kev> Urgh.
[16:16:42] <ralphm> I mean, we effectively used about 4 hours on monday
[16:16:43] <linuxwolf> well, no, I am sorry I missed out
[16:16:46] <ralphm> which could be done better
[16:16:48] <stpeter> so we'd have the Summit on Thursday and Friday
[16:16:48] <linuxwolf> (Kev appears)
[16:16:53] <Kev> Sorry, was out and couldn't get away.
[16:17:06] <linuxwolf> no worries … we started without you (-:
[16:17:09] <ralphm> stpeter: nod
[16:17:41] <Kev> Right.
[16:17:48] <Kev> 1) Here, late.
2) Yes, get rid of it.
[16:17:56] *linuxwolf hands gavel back to Kev
[16:18:01] <Kev> 3) Thu/Fri seems better than Fri/Mon.
[16:18:14] <Kev> linuxwolf: Happy for you to finish up with it :)
[16:18:56] <linuxwolf> ok then (-:
[16:18:58] <ralphm> I assume most of the improvement notes will come up in board soonish
[16:19:00] <linuxwolf> anything else on FOSDEM
[16:19:20] <ralphm> thanks everyone!
[16:19:24] <Kev> Is anyone writing up technical notes?
[16:19:25] <MattJ> +1 :)
[16:19:27] <stpeter> linuxwolf: not really, see the notes I posted
[16:19:27] <linuxwolf> yes
[16:19:31] <MattJ> and next year I'd really like to at least audio-record the talks
[16:19:38] <ralphm> MattJ: nod
[16:19:40] <MattJ> I know it takes someone to step up and do that, but I think I can
[16:19:52] <Kev> I can write up a summary if no-one else is.
[16:19:55] <linuxwolf> Kev: I'm working on council notes as we speak, stpeter posted Summit notes on list
[16:19:57] <Kev> And yes, thanks to everyone who arranged stuff.
[16:20:00] <Kev> Ah, great.
[16:20:17] <linuxwolf> ok, moving on
[16:20:26] <ralphm> Maybe we should put up a wiki page on this
[16:20:29] <linuxwolf> 3.2) Obsolete 190
[16:20:33] <ralphm> so that improvements can be added there
[16:21:00] <linuxwolf> not a bad idea, anyone willing to take that on?
[16:21:09] <ralphm> +1 on deprecating and deleting 190
[16:21:27] <Kev> 190 is covered by 6120 now, is it?
[16:21:31] <stpeter> Kev: yes
[16:21:34] <linuxwolf> It's more or less replaced by 6120
[16:21:47] <ralphm> eh, obsoleting, hehe
[16:22:08] <linuxwolf> +1 on deprecating and obsoleting
[16:22:08] <Kev> I should probably check 6120 before I vote on this, will do on list.
[16:22:14] <linuxwolf> notes
[16:22:16] <linuxwolf> noted even
[16:22:44] <stpeter> as mentioned above, when the new RFCs were published we deprecated 192 and 193, but neglected to deprecate 190 and 237
[16:22:59] <linuxwolf> Tobias?
[16:23:02] <Tobias> yeah?
[16:23:07] <Tobias> +1 on obsoleting
[16:23:11] <linuxwolf> grazie!
[16:23:37] <linuxwolf> MattJ?
[16:23:46] <linuxwolf> on list, or do you have a position now?
[16:23:51] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:24:02] <MattJ> I'm +1
[16:24:20] <linuxwolf> grazie
[16:24:33] <linuxwolf> 3.3) Obsolete 192
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[16:24:44] <ralphm> +1
[16:24:46] <linuxwolf> again, replaced by RFC 6120
[16:24:50] <Kev> +1
[16:24:54] <linuxwolf> I'm +1 also
[16:24:56] <MattJ> +1
[16:25:15] <linuxwolf> Tobias: your vote?
[16:25:35] <Tobias> ü1
[16:25:36] <Tobias> +1
[16:25:40] <linuxwolf> (-:
[16:25:48] <linuxwolf> 3.4) Obsolete 193
[16:26:05] <Kev> +1
[16:26:15] <ralphm> +1
[16:26:17] <linuxwolf> yet again, replaced by RFC 6120
[16:26:20] <linuxwolf> +1 also
[16:26:30] <MattJ> +1
[16:26:33] <Tobias> +1
[16:26:39] <linuxwolf> ok
[16:26:45] <linuxwolf> and one last item ...
[16:27:05] <linuxwolf> I finally put my vote on XEP-0045, so I believe it's good to be updated now
[16:27:15] <linuxwolf> publish 1.25 rather
[16:27:49] <ralphm> nod
[16:27:52] <Kev> Yep, saw that, thanks.
[16:28:09] <stpeter> yay
[16:28:15] <linuxwolf> finally
[16:28:19] *stpeter is too tired to cheer enthusiastically :)
[16:28:27] <ralphm> For next time, maybe we should discuss if we want to do something about the lenght of XEP-0060 (and maybe other specs)
[16:28:28] <linuxwolf> let's try not to let that happen again (-:
[16:28:32] <Kev> You're not alone. I'm hoping to be human again tomorrow.
[16:28:35] <ralphm> this came up at FOSDEM
[16:28:35] <linuxwolf> although I'm afraid there's a large backlog for 60
[16:28:40] <stpeter> ralphm: right
[16:28:51] <linuxwolf> /nod
[16:29:06] <stpeter> I think we could move lots of the management stuff to separate specs for both 45 and 60
[16:29:14] <ralphm> right
[16:29:20] <ralphm> So I'd like to put that on the agenda
[16:29:25] <ralphm> for next week or so
[16:29:33] <linuxwolf> noted in minutes
[16:29:37] <Kev> ralphm: Put what on the agenda, particularly?
[16:29:49] <ralphm> Kev: the discussion on that
[16:30:04] <Kev> Just a discussion, ok.
[16:30:28] <linuxwolf> 4) DateTime of next meeting
[16:30:34] <linuxwolf> unless there was more AOB?
[16:30:44] <linuxwolf> it didn't read like it, though
[16:30:59] <Kev> AOB: Thanks linuxwolf for chairing in my lateness.
[16:31:05] <Kev> DateTime: +1week.
[16:31:06] <linuxwolf> (-:
[16:31:10] <stpeter> I'll bring up more AOB stuff next week
[16:31:12] <linuxwolf> works for me
[16:31:24] <MattJ> +1
[16:31:30] <Tobias> wfm
[16:31:32] <linuxwolf> so next meeting 2012-02-15T16:00Z
[16:31:32] <ralphm> stpeter: if you have agenda points, that's not quite AOB :-D
[16:31:49] <linuxwolf> I think you all need to recover first
[16:31:51] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:31:54] <linuxwolf> and we're at the bell now
[16:31:57] <ralphm> right
[16:32:03] <Kev> Right.
[16:32:10] <linuxwolf> if nothing crucial ...
[16:32:14] <Kev> Not here.
[16:32:16] <stpeter> ralphm: right, agenda items
[16:32:25] <ralphm> linuxwolf: bang it
[16:32:28] *linuxwolf bangs gavel
[16:32:29] <Tobias> so are we done?
[16:32:30] <Tobias> yay
[16:32:33] <linuxwolf> (-:
[16:32:34] <Kev> Thanks all, thanks linuxwolf.
[16:32:36] <ralphm> thanks all!
[16:32:37] <linuxwolf> no problem
[16:32:37] <stpeter> MattJ and Kev: would you like to review my updates to XEP-0300 before I push it out?
[16:32:38] <Tobias> thx
[16:32:44] <linuxwolf> I'll have the notes out after I get through my meetings
[16:32:45] <Kev> linuxwolf: Are you ok with sending out minutes?
[16:32:49] <Kev> Great, thanks.
[16:32:52] <linuxwolf> which I'm already late for!
[16:33:14] <Kev> stpeter: Happy to do so, but don't think it's necessary. I'll shout if I object to them :)
[16:33:22] <stpeter> ok! :)
[16:33:23] <Tobias> cya
[16:33:24] <MattJ> stpeter, sure
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[16:33:55] <MattJ> stpeter, btw, when you get around to XEP-0060... I have a bit of feedback I've been collecting, and probably will have more as I flesh out the pubsub support in Prosody
[16:34:08] <stpeter> MattJ: I have a lot of feedback to incorporate :)
[16:35:03] <stpeter> MattJ: we didn't discuss "other uses of message forwarding" in Brussels, but it seems to me that http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0297.html might be ready for a last call (will ask for agenda time next week)
[16:35:18] <MattJ> Sure
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[16:37:56] <ralphm> MattJ: could you send that to the pubsub ml?
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[16:38:55] <MattJ> Sure
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[17:06:19] *stpeter processes various summit and council related items
[17:18:18] <linuxwolf> do we still not have room logs?
[17:18:59] <linuxwolf> nevermind … answered my own question!
[17:19:49] <stpeter> :)
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