Thursday, October 11, 2012
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[14:56:34] <m&m> T - 10
[14:57:35] <Kev> Yes.
[14:57:43] <Kev> And I'm even here. With an alarm set on my phone.
[14:59:41] <m&m> (-:
[15:00:44] <Kev> Although anything could happen in the next 6 minutes.
[15:04:09] <Kev> Alarm went off.
[15:04:16] <Kev> So I'm on my own now.
[15:05:54] <m&m> 30 seconds!
[15:06:21] <Kev> Matt and Ralph poked.
[15:06:23] <Kev> I don't see Tobias.
[15:06:26] *** ralphm has joined the room
[15:06:38] *ralphm waves
[15:06:42] <Kev> Hi Ralph.
[15:07:03] <m&m> hola
[15:07:03] <Kev> Matt's marked AFK,so I guess there's not too much hope there.
[15:07:07] <m&m> /-:
[15:07:08] <Kev> 1) Roll call.
[15:07:15] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:07:20] <m&m> presente
[15:07:20] <Kev> I'm here.
[15:07:21] <stpeter> howdy
[15:07:25] <Kev> Evening Peter.
[15:07:38] <Kev> And Ralph seems here too.
[15:07:51] <Kev> 2) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xml-media-element.html
Accept (newer version)?
[15:07:52] <Kanchil> Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xml-media-element.html:
XEP-xxxx: Data Forms XML Element
[15:08:06] <m&m> no objections
[15:08:23] <stpeter> I think this one just fell off my radar screen
[15:08:29] <ralphm> no objections to publish
[15:08:31] <Kev> I do wonder if this needs some text about jabber:client|server.
[15:08:37] <Kev> But this isn't a reason to not publish.
[15:08:59] *** Tobias has joined the room
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[15:09:02] <ralphm> I reiterate that I'm not sure the idea itself is a good one
[15:09:03] <Kev> AFAICS, it would be illegal to do:
[15:09:06] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "@uni"
[15:09:12] <Tobias> hi
[15:09:32] <Kev> <message>
<wrapper xmlns='...'>
<not-from-xmpp xmlns='jabber:client'/>
</wrapper>
</message>
[15:09:40] <Kev> Hi Tobias.
[15:10:15] <Kev> Tobias: objections to http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xml-media-element.html ?
[15:10:16] <Kanchil> Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/xml-media-element.html:
XEP-xxxx: Data Forms XML Element
[15:10:42] <m&m> wouldn't we have to add that to every XEP, though?
[15:11:06] <m&m> I don't think it's worth calling out any more here than we've done in other places.
[15:11:10] <Kev> m&m: How many other XEPs claim to allow you to include arbitrary XML as a child?
[15:11:18] <m&m> pubsub
[15:11:27] <m&m> ok, at least one (-:
[15:11:34] <Kev> This specifically calls out that you can use it for shipping XMPP logs, and it doesn't allow that.
[15:11:47] <Kev> Assuming by 'logs' we mean 'telemetry'.
[15:12:15] <Kev> But anyway, I'm not objecting to this.
[15:12:27] <Kev> And I think Tobias has wandered off again.
[15:12:37] <Tobias> what?
[15:12:47] <Tobias> ah..one sec
[15:13:06] <ralphm> I don't particularly like that you can have more than one child of wrapper
[15:13:16] <ralphm> also not quite sure if you actually need a wrapper
[15:13:43] <Kev> ralphm: Yes, I wondered that, but I think you do.
[15:13:52] <m&m> I think the wrapper helps
[15:13:57] <ralphm> iff you need one, it should only have one child element
[15:13:58] <Kev> That is - you need to know "This is a blob of XML that is an answer to this field".
[15:14:07] <Kev> Rather than "This is some field type that you don't understand".
[15:14:33] <ralphm> otherwise it is more than one xml blob
[15:14:39] <ralphm> (possibly)
[15:14:48] <Kev> Yes, although whether that matters is another issue.
[15:14:56] <Kev> Do you want to block it on that basis, or just comment onlist?
[15:15:19] <ralphm> I said already I have no objections to it being published
[15:15:30] <ralphm> I am not sure I like the way it works
[15:15:32] <Tobias> no objections to it from my side
[15:15:40] <Kev> You did - I was checking you hadn't changed your mind :)
[15:15:42] <Kev> OK.
[15:16:02] <Kev> 3) Date of next meeting.
[15:16:23] <ralphm> I'll be in SF/Portland the coming two weeks
[15:16:29] <Kev> Next Wednesday looks OK for me, unless I get called to be onsite again with short notice.
[15:16:35] *stpeter glances at http://wiki.xmpp.org:12480/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2012
[15:16:36] <Kanchil> stpeter: http://wiki.xmpp.org:12480/web/Board_and_Council_Elections_2012:
Board and Council Elections 2012 - XMPP Wiki
[15:16:55] <Tobias> that wiki should be available on port 80, btw
[15:17:07] <stpeter> ah, good
[15:17:12] <ralphm> Tobias: interestingly, it is!
[15:17:21] <Kev> We can have one last meeting on the 30th then, I guess.
[15:17:25] <Tobias> ralphm, got an url?
[15:17:29] <stpeter> WFM
[15:17:36] <ralphm> Tobias: just chop off the port part
[15:17:45] <Kev> Without anaesthetic? :o
[15:17:46] <m&m> WFM
[15:17:50] <Tobias> ralphm, ahh..thx...
[15:18:11] <ralphm> Tobias: someone should fix the config that it doesn't expose that additional weird port
[15:18:18] <Tobias> indeed
[15:18:24] <ralphm> Also, Cool URLs Don't Change!
[15:18:42] <Kev> Someone needs to finish the porting of athena from lighttpd to nginx.
[15:18:46] <stpeter> I have one AOB.... XEP-0071 and how to come to agreement on structured elements vs. stylistic presentation, but I suppose I'll just post to the list about that
[15:18:50] <Kev> I started and then got distracted, as so often happens.
[15:18:57] <ralphm> I wish to stamp that on the head of everyone involved the slightest in anything related to publishing web pages
[15:19:23] <Kev> stpeter: I think at this stage the answer is "We don't substantially change the XEP".
[15:19:34] <Kev> But yes, that discussion can happen on-list.
[15:19:45] <Kev> OK, so next meeting 30th October, just before we get kicked out.
[15:19:47] <m&m> /nod
[15:19:47] <ralphm> To be more blunt. I'm a solid -1 on anything adding stuff
[15:19:55] <ralphm> like rdfa
[15:20:01] <Kev> Any other any other business?
[15:20:07] <stpeter> not adding anything, just softening some of the language, but I'll post to the list :)
[15:20:27] <m&m> where are we on xep-0297 ?
[15:21:07] <Kev> Was I supposed to be giving that a read-through before we ask for an LC?
[15:21:14] <m&m> yes (-:
[15:21:18] <Kev> OK.
[15:21:33] <Kev> Have added to my TODO.
[15:21:36] <m&m> I need to look at the list again … there might have been some comments that need addressing
[15:21:50] <Kev> Any other any other business?
[15:22:11] <m&m> none from me
[15:22:12] <ralphm> -
[15:22:28] <Tobias> none here
[15:22:31] <Kev> OK.
[15:22:34] <Kev> I think we're done then.
[15:22:36] <Kev> Thanks all.
[15:22:39] *Kev bangs the gavel.
[15:22:40] <ralphm> yay
[15:22:42] <ralphm> thanks all
[15:22:43] <m&m> w00t
[15:22:45] <Tobias> thanks
[15:22:47] <Tobias> bbl
[15:23:00] <stpeter> bbiaf
[15:23:26] *m&m wonders in search of caffeine
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[15:23:43] <ralphm> flash!
[15:24:01] *stpeter wonders why m&m wonders instead of wanders
[15:24:13] <ralphm> hehe
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[15:30:22] <m&m> because too much caffeine is a bad thing, and I've had at least 300mLs so far this morning
[15:30:42] <m&m> well, 300mLs of coffee
[15:30:54] <m&m> and 300mLs of green tea
[15:31:28] <ralphm> m&m: the SI designation for liter is lowercase l.
[15:31:32] <ralphm> and no -s
[15:31:38] <m&m> graze
[15:31:48] <m&m> I'm a silly American, anyway
[15:32:03] <ralphm> well, /you/ could still do the proper thing
[15:32:18] <ralphm> it is a wonder (haha see above) you even know about them
[15:32:22] <m&m> in the end, I'm filled up my 150ml cup with more coffee
[15:32:26] <ralphm> (them being the SI units)
[15:32:34] <m&m> I said silly, not ignorant
[15:32:35] <m&m> d-:
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[15:32:50] <ralphm> m&m: I'm sorry, you're in the middle of hahaland
[15:33:01] <m&m> oh yesh
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[15:33:38] <ralphm> too bad you won't be in porland
[15:34:00] *MattJ grumbles at timezones
[15:34:17] <ralphm> MattJ: seriously?
[15:34:20] <m&m> I know, but there's only so much travel I can get away with before the family complains
[15:34:37] <ralphm> m&m: right
[15:34:58] <MattJ> ralphm, seriously :P
[15:35:08] <ralphm> MattJ: coming weeks will be interesting for you
[15:35:20] <MattJ> Quite
[15:35:47] <m&m> oh crap … that's right
[15:35:53] <ralphm> The council meeting of the 30th will be in between the daylight switch of europe and the states
[15:36:05] <m&m> I'll be traveling to Atlanta on the next change in the US
[15:36:08] <MattJ> Lovely
[15:36:55] <m&m> this is why we should abolish DST
[15:37:18] <ralphm> I think we didn't pick I time. I suggest 16:00 UTC
[15:38:04] <m&m> I think that works for me
[15:38:15] <MattJ> Me too
[15:42:47] <Kev> Yes.
[15:45:27] <stpeter> ok, I sent a message to the standards@ list about structure vs. style, we'll see what comes of it
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