Wednesday, January 09, 2013
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[15:52:58] <Kev> Blah, the diff tool isn't working. This is going to make checking Kurt's diff somewhat harder.
[15:53:03] <m&m> yeah
[15:53:10] <m&m> noticed that earlier this morning
[15:53:35] <Kev> https://gitorious.org/xmpp/xmpp/commit/c1d9716bfe7e0171a8b82a5f69da811d3e2f0d1b
[15:53:56] <m&m> hrmph
[15:54:24] <m&m> ok, now that is loading (-:
[16:01:23] <Kev> Righty, it is time.
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[16:01:51] <ralphm> hi
[16:01:53] <Kev> I don't see Tobias online.
[16:01:54] <Kev> Hi Ralph.
[16:01:58] <Kev> 1) Roll call.
[16:02:00] <Kev> I'm here.
[16:02:01] <m&m> presente
[16:02:04] <Kev> I have apologies from MattJ.
[16:02:08] <ralphm> I'm here
[16:02:22] <Kev> Tobias seems missing.
[16:02:24] <Kev> 2) XEP-0258
Accept 1.1?

http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0258/diff/1.0/vs/1.1rc1

http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0258-1.1.html
[16:02:48] <Kev> This is a simple change, I'm happy with it.
[16:03:49] <ralphm> that first link doesn't work for me
[16:04:01] <Kev> Yeah, it's down. There's a git diff further in your scrollback.
[16:04:02] <m&m> There's a typo in the first sentence s/returned/return/
[16:04:14] <Kev> m&m: So there is.
[16:04:17] <m&m> https://gitorious.org/xmpp/xmpp/commit/c1d9716bfe7e0171a8b82a5f69da811d3e2f0d1b
[16:04:39] <m&m> otherwise I'm +1
[16:04:40] <Kev> That's editorial, so I think we can ask Peter to just fix it as he pushes the new version.
[16:04:47] <m&m> /nod
[16:04:50] <ralphm> oh right, +1
[16:05:08] <Kev> 3) Obsoleting compliance
[16:05:26] <Kev> Peter'd like to obsolete the obsolete compliance suites.
[16:05:50] <Kev> Seems sensible to me. Keeping the latest version not obsolete also seems sensible to me.
[16:06:03] <m&m> right
[16:06:09] <m&m> no objections from me
[16:06:24] <ralphm> I've come to terms with the fact that those entities we would like to strongly get into compliance will not actually be coerced into that by these compliance suites at all.
[16:06:29] <Zash> Time for compliance suite 2013 soon? :)
[16:07:13] <ralphm> that said, I'm +1 on obsoleting the obsolete
[16:07:16] <m&m> I'd rather have "Now THAT'S What I call Compliance 7" or some such … not actually based on a year
[16:07:17] <Kev> ralphm: I think there are entities that can be encouraged by this marketing ploy if they know about it.
[16:07:43] <Kev> ralphm: And keeping the 'current' one not obsolete?
[16:07:56] <ralphm> Kev: I am thinking of the truly big entities, like Google.
[16:08:02] <ralphm> Kev: yeah
[16:08:12] <Kev> Cool.
[16:08:13] <Kev> 4) XHTML-IM to Final (do I need to publish an updated version?)
[16:08:32] <Kev> Has Waqas's feedback been addressed yet? I thought it hadn't.
[16:08:42] <m&m> has Waqas provided feedback?
[16:09:35] <Kev> Was it not Waqas? Someone had found bunches of security holes in various implementations, and we/Peter were/was going to update the XEP to discuss them and suggest it's better if you don't have them. I'm pretty sure that was Waqas.
[16:10:19] <m&m> I remember Waqas saying he found a bunch, but I never saw was that list was
[16:10:30] <m&m> maybe it was shared with a limited party
[16:10:42] <Kev> Ah, maybe he didn't send it, then.
[16:10:48] <Kev> I don't recall seeing it, it's true.
[16:10:58] <Kev> OK, I'll chase Waqas, then.
[16:10:58] <m&m> in which case, his publicized concerns have been addressed, IMO
[16:11:04] <m&m> please
[16:11:15] <Kev> I'd rather delay Finaling it until it's clear that they're addressed.
[16:11:16] <ralphm> Aren't those basically implementation issues. I don't think the actual protocol will need to change.
[16:11:24] <ralphm> so that's ready for Final
[16:11:37] <m&m> I don't remember seeing a list, so I don't know if they were implementations or actual protocol problems
[16:11:44] <ralphm> possible editorial clarifications or security notices can always be added if needed
[16:12:05] <m&m> how about we give him a fortnight to publicize the concerns?
[16:12:26] <m&m> assuming Kev chases him down soon
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[16:12:38] <Kev> How about we go for after FOSDEM?
[16:12:48] <stpeter> sorry I'm late
[16:12:50] <m&m> that works
[16:12:53] <Kev> It's not clear to me whether I'll be able to do meetings between now and then anyway.
[16:13:00] <Kev> stpeter: Forgiven :)
[16:13:36] <ralphm> +1
[16:13:56] <stpeter> I can ping Waqas
[16:14:38] <stpeter> I too recall some possible implementation stupidities (really)
[16:14:53] <stpeter> like allowing silly CSS stuff
[16:15:20] <m&m> even though they're NOT RECOMMENDED in the spec
[16:15:25] <stpeter> IIRC they were things that you'd have to be really stupid about in HTML, but I suppose some people are
[16:15:30] <stpeter> m&m: right
[16:15:32] <m&m> I just can't find that list
[16:15:56] <Kev> stpeter: OK, if you're pinging him fab, thanks. One fewer thing for me to forget to do.
[16:16:03] <m&m> (-:
[16:16:14] <Kev> 5) Date of next meeting.
[16:16:17] <ralphm> stpeter: stupid is usually just throwing the incoming stuff verbatim into an HTML renderer
[16:16:27] <stpeter> ralphm: among other things, yes
[16:16:28] <Kev> I'd quite like to delay until Feb, depending whether other people are OK with that.
[16:16:34] <stpeter> Kev: seems OK
[16:16:36] <ralphm> +1
[16:16:40] <m&m> wfm
[16:17:00] <Kev> OK, so next meeting whatever the first Wed in Feb is, normal time.
[16:17:02] <Kev> 6) AOB?
[16:17:13] <stpeter> reading the log, I'm not quite sure what to do about the compliance suite specs -- obsolete them all? (it seems some folks think it might be beneficial to have a "living document")
[16:18:00] <Kev> stpeter: I think we agreed to obsolete all but the latest.
[16:18:12] <ralphm> what Kev said
[16:18:13] <stpeter> right, and then figure out what to do
[16:18:15] <stpeter> sure
[16:18:16] <stpeter> WFM
[16:18:20] <m&m> exactly
[16:18:55] <stpeter> will do, then
[16:19:00] <Kev> Ta.
[16:19:05] <Kev> Any OB?
[16:19:11] <m&m> none from me
[16:19:13] <stpeter> none here
[16:19:33] <Kev> I will be at FOSDEM, BTW, although I still need to book stuff (I think I wasn't sure last time we had a meeting).
[16:19:49] <Kev> So, I think we're done.
[16:19:50] <stpeter> ok
[16:19:51] <Kev> Thanks all.
[16:19:53] <stpeter> yep
[16:19:54] *Kev bangs the gavel.
[16:19:57] <stpeter> thanks indeed!
[16:20:13] <ralphm> stpeter: did we come up with a final room schedule?
[16:20:28] <stpeter> ralphm: I don't think so -- will work with bear on that today or tonight
[16:20:37] <ralphm> ah, ok
[16:20:48] <ralphm> I should be around tonight (for me) as well
[16:20:53] <ralphm> if needed
[16:20:59] <ralphm> hard dead line is tomorrow
[16:21:01] <stpeter> ok thanks
[16:21:01] <stpeter> yes
[16:21:03] <stpeter> got it
[16:21:27] <stpeter> so I'll get to work on that sooner rather than later :)
[16:21:38] <stpeter> but first, some tea :)
[16:21:39] <stpeter> brb
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[16:22:05] <Kev> I think there was some confusion over whether talks were for FOSDEM or the summit.
[16:22:13] <Kev> Last I saw on the list.
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[16:26:37] <stpeter> aha
[16:27:00] <bear> that confusion was only with me I think
[16:27:12] <stpeter> hi bear :)
[16:27:17] <Kev> Well, I wasn't sure, so at least I was confused as well.
[16:27:40] <bear> I like to share my confusion with others it seems ;)
[16:27:46] <stpeter> heh
[16:28:41] <stpeter> generally all the talks are for FOSDEM unless they're too geeky
[16:28:51] <Kev> Right.
[16:29:27] <bear> does fosdem have that speaker app/tool again?
[16:29:33] <stpeter> bear: oh yes
[16:29:42] <stpeter> bear: it's quite the fun thing IIRC
[16:30:19] <bear> yea, I remember using an earlier version of it
[16:31:22] <stpeter> bear: will ping you via PM here soonish to coordinate, but first I need to get vaguely organized :)
[16:31:28] *bear nods
[16:44:01] <Kev> bear: You're at FOSDEM this time aren't you?
[16:44:13] <bear> I leave sunday, but yes
[16:44:22] <Kev> Excellent.
[16:44:29] <Kev> I'm probably going to leave Sunday, myself.
[16:47:27] *stpeter nods
[16:47:30] <bear> yea, I wasn't going to short my self by not going to at least one day of fosdem
[16:48:30] <ralphm> meating
[16:48:52] <stpeter> :)
[16:49:07] <ralphm> leaving after it, I think
[16:50:27] <stpeter> ralphm: I'm happy to see that you have your priorities in line :)
[16:51:11] <Kev> Are we likely to be meating on the Saturday or the Sunday?
[16:51:20] <ralphm> Sunday, I am guessing
[16:51:35] <Kev> Seems a shame to miss that, but I'm not sure I'll hang around long enough for the Sunday night.
[16:51:39] <ralphm> if florian is indeed going to fix Saturday for dinner
[16:51:55] <Kev> Oh. I thought the suggestion was much earlier for dinner - Thursday or whatever.
[16:52:26] <ralphm> last time I talked with him about it, he said that the place is closed on Thursday
[16:52:32] <Kev> Ah.
[16:53:00] <ralphm> Of course Friday is the pre-FOSDEM drink event. But I don't care for that as much.
[16:53:12] <Kev> Words fail to describe how little I wish to attend that :)
[16:53:16] <ralphm> used to be awesome with around 200 people
[16:53:59] <ralphm> But now first some zuurkool met spek.
[16:54:05] <stpeter> agreed on Friday
[16:54:20] *bear checks...
[16:54:39] <bear> yep, leaving sunday morning
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[17:30:49] <Kev> ralphm: I suspect it used to be awesome /for people who drink/ :)
[17:31:49] <stpeter> yeah, it's pretty insane
[17:32:08] <stpeter> the first time I went (still at L'Roi d'Espagne or whatever) it was fun
[17:32:26] <stpeter> so we'll simply need to make other plans
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[17:34:35] <Kev> My preference, which doesn't count for much, would be to have the XSF dinner on the Friday and then just a meating on the Saturday.
[17:35:05] *bear agrees with Kev
[17:35:27] <stpeter> that would work for me
[17:35:33] <bear> the dinner on friday can happen early enough to give time for the drinkers to wander over to the other event
[17:38:49] <Kev> Was there going to be a Board meeting after the Council meeting today, or has that habit stopped now?
[17:39:53] <bear> hmm, there could have been
[17:40:29] <bear> the only two things on the "must get done" list were the hotel and planning for fosdem
[17:41:07] <Kev> XSF meal is on the Thursday.
[17:41:22] <Kev> Just checked with Florian
[17:41:29] <Kev> I think Thursday is preferable to Friday :)
[17:41:35] <bear> same
[17:41:57] <bear> then the only item to finish is the speaker list, and we will be doing that later in the day
[17:42:24] <bear> let me send an email to the members list saying that so anyone can pipe up if they have something they are worried about
[17:42:25] <Kev> Fab.
[17:42:42] <Kev> It wasn't a case of needing a Board meeting to discuss anything, I just like to turn up whenever they are.
[17:42:48] *bear nods
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[18:38:27] <ralphm> .
[18:39:59] <stpeter> .
[18:40:06] <stpeter> shall we chat here instead? ;-)
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[19:13:59] <Tobias> friday sounds way better...especially since i'll arrive friday morning :D
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[20:19:36] <ralphm> Tobias: bad planning
[20:20:11] <Tobias> ralphm, well...i have collisions with end semester exams on thursday
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[20:26:11] <ralphm> sadness
[20:26:24] <ralphm> I missed 1 FOSDEM because of my master's thesis
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[20:26:55] <Tobias> ralphm, what was your master thesis about?
[20:28:48] <ralphm> Tobias: a research vehicle for streaming video with graceful degradation
[20:29:03] <Tobias> ah..interesting
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[20:29:56] <ralphm> http://alexandria.tue.nl/extra1/afstversl/wsk-i/meijer2004.pdf
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[21:55:29] <ralphm> stpeter, bear: as always, the deadline slipped. They want it before the 15th, with a hard deadline the 18th
[21:56:00] <ralphm> our room is H.2213
[21:56:12] <bear> thanks ralphm
[21:56:30] <ralphm> but you may still finish it today, of course :-)
[21:57:07] <stpeter> ralphm: I will certainly do so this week, anyway, but will endeavor to get it mostly stable this evening
[21:58:40] <bear> stpeter - if you get the list wrangled on the wiki - I will do the data entry
[22:00:07] <stpeter> bear: ok
[22:00:11] <stpeter> the data entry is the fun part :)
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[22:00:47] <bear> haha - well, i'm not going to take away your fun - just figured that was a good split
[22:00:52] <stpeter> for sure
[22:01:02] <stpeter> will ping you later, time for another meeting here :)
[22:01:22] <bear> k
[22:14:01] <ralphm> stpeter: do you still have valid pentabarf credentials?
[22:14:05] <ralphm> (I do)
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[23:00:18] <stpeter> ralphm: probably, but I need to check
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