Wednesday, May 08, 2013
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[07:11:57] <Tobias> anything important on the agenda for today?
[07:13:00] <Kev> The two proposals from yesterday.
[07:14:01] <Tobias> do we want to handle them this week or next? might be a bit close for today...
[07:19:32] <Kev> Today seems fine, we have two weeks to deal with them after the meeting.
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[14:54:24] <m&m> mea culpa
[14:54:32] <m&m> I will not be able to attend today
[14:54:40] <m&m> even if I appear online!
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[14:57:35] <stpeter> howdy
[14:58:58] <Tobias> hi
[14:59:18] <stpeter> brb
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[15:02:47] <Kev> m&m: Ta.
[15:04:27] <Kev> Right, it is time.
[15:04:31] <Kev> 1) Roll call.
[15:04:32] <Kev> I'm here.
[15:04:37] <Tobias> soami
[15:04:41] <MattJ> Me to
[15:04:43] <MattJ> o
[15:04:53] <Kev> I poked Ralph, and m&m's not here.
[15:05:03] <stpeter> "Harpier cries 'Tis time, 'tis time."
[15:05:35] <Kev> 2)http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/pubsub-subs.html
Accept?
[15:05:36] <Kanchil> Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/pubsub-subs.html:
XEP-xxxx: Pubsub Subscription
[15:06:14] <Kev> I didn't really get the whole 'id' thing in this.
[15:06:30] <MattJ> I think it's so you don't end up with duplicates, for example
[15:06:43] <Kev> And I'm not sure that the security considerations should have been copy/pasted from user tune :)
[15:06:46] <MattJ> or can easily check for the presence of an item in the list
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[15:06:58] <MattJ> The hash isn't correct, I checked :)
[15:07:19] <MattJ> It doesn't have a JID in it anyway
[15:07:25] <Kev> But, can't you easily check for the presence of an item in the list anyway?
[15:07:36] <MattJ> How?
[15:07:36] <Zash> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#entity-subscriptions ← What about that format that already exists?
[15:07:38] <Kanchil> Zash: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0060.html#entity-subscriptions:
XEP-0060: Publish-Subscribe
[15:07:41] <stpeter> why not just use UUIDs?
[15:08:08] <Kev> Zash: It's a reasonable question - although I think the one-sub per item they're going for might be sensible.
[15:08:17] <MattJ> stpeter, well then you can let the server generate them for you... but that still lets you have duplicates of a subscription
[15:08:26] <stpeter> MattJ: ah, sure
[15:08:50] <Kev> MattJ: But won't you only have duplicates of a subscription if you put them there?
[15:08:56] <Kev> Or are you thinking of two clients with a race condition?
[15:08:57] <MattJ> With the hash, if I want to see if someone is subscribed to a node, I can just do a simple iq get for that item id
[15:09:12] <MattJ> Well two clients is a case it could easily happen
[15:09:42] <stpeter> given that we deferred most of the other "User *" specs for lack of interest years ago, I wonder what the compelling use cases are here...
[15:10:31] <Kev> stpeter: Presumably they have a use for it, and we don't judge community interest until going to Draft.
[15:10:34] <Kev> So I'm not opposing it.
[15:10:46] <MattJ> Me neither, it has some editorial work to be done, but I like it
[15:10:47] <stpeter> Kev: agreed, I was just curious
[15:11:03] <Tobias> i'm with MattJ here
[15:12:03] <Kev> 3) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/http-over-xmpp.html
[15:12:04] <Kanchil> Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/http-over-xmpp.html:
XEP-xxxx: HTTP over XMPP transport
[15:12:08] <Kev> I need to read this.
[15:12:24] <Kev> I'm assuming the ultimate aim is to do XMPP over BOSH over HTTP over XMPP over websockets?
[15:12:29] <stpeter> heehee
[15:12:38] <Tobias> yeah..who wouldn't want that...
[15:12:41] <MattJ> Heh
[15:13:00] <stpeter> probably it's to tunnel HTTP over XMPP-over-EXI
[15:13:13] <stpeter> for some reason :-)
[15:13:16] <MattJ> It reminded me of this part of an interview with jer: http://prosody.im/pastebin/95529bb1-b125-46ff-ab0e-526f78b4f176
[15:13:25] <Tobias> wouldn't shoving it through IBB be way easier?
[15:13:31] <Kev> To be entirely fair, I /can/ see situations in which HTTP over XMPP might be a sensible thing to do.
[15:13:33] <MattJ> ...in 2001
[15:13:34] <stpeter> now, I admit it would have been helpful for our friends in Cuba a few years ago
[15:14:00] <Kev> So I need to vote onlist for this.
[15:14:05] <Kev> Matt /Tobias?
[15:14:35] <MattJ> I'm +1, but as ever it needs some work :)
[15:14:36] <Tobias> i'll vote on list too, after i've read it
[15:14:49] <Kev> OK.
[15:14:53] <MattJ> My thought on it is that people are going to do it anyway, and it's best to spec it
[15:14:57] <Kev> 4) Date of next. I can't do next week. Week after?
[15:15:01] <MattJ> and this doesn't seem like a terrible solution
[15:15:13] <MattJ> Week after is fine
[15:15:14] <Kev> MattJ: I'm not opposed to the principle, but I've not read the spec at all, and I want to before voting.
[15:15:57] <MattJ> Yep, I understand :)
[15:16:17] <Kev> I'll take that as an OK from Tobias.
[15:16:21] <Kev> 5) Any other business?
[15:16:31] <Tobias> yeah..fine with me as long as it ends up in the calendar
[15:16:41] <stpeter> as to AOB, the http-over-xmpp proposal raised the issue of whether we can re-use SHIM headers
[15:16:54] <Kev> I also haven't read that thread.
[15:16:59] <stpeter> heh ok
[15:17:09] <MattJ> I've read the thread, but not the SHIM spec
[15:17:11] <stpeter> our resident literalist took issue with my suggestion
[15:17:15] <MattJ> :)
[15:17:36] <stpeter> Kev: no worries, we can discuss on the list
[15:17:52] <stpeter> maybe XEP-0131 was worded too narrowly
[15:17:52] <Kev> I don't have anything intelligent to say here, at least.
[15:17:54] *stpeter shrugs
[15:17:59] <stpeter> yep, understood :-)
[15:18:15] <MattJ> stpeter, you speak in the past tense, but it's still Draft :)
[15:18:21] <Kev> Although, at a very high level, I'm not sure re-use of 131 buys very much if people don't implement 131 much :)
[15:18:30] <Kev> But anyway, I'll try to catch up and comment on list.
[15:19:03] <stpeter> was, is, has been, will be...
[15:19:05] <stpeter> yep
[15:19:12] <MattJ> What will be will be
[15:19:29] <Kev> OK, we're done then?
[15:19:33] <Tobias> i think so
[15:19:34] *MattJ nods
[15:19:41] <Kev> Right, thanks all.
[15:19:44] *Kev bangs the gavel.
[15:19:46] <Tobias> thanks you
[15:19:50] <MattJ> Thanks
[15:19:55] <stpeter> Tobias: shall I update the calendar to remove next week's meeting?
[15:20:27] <Tobias> will it annoy people too much when it's wrong? :)
[15:20:31] <stpeter> maybe I'll add some June meetings while I'm at it
[15:20:33] <Tobias> i don't care personally
[15:20:40] <stpeter> fixing it now
[15:23:34] <stpeter> hmm, lots of php5-cgi processes using memory on athena, will have to check into that
[15:23:44] <stpeter> er, lots of CPU
[15:24:17] <Tobias> wordpress :)
[15:24:26] <stpeter> it's evil
[15:24:43] <Zash> moar caching!
[15:24:52] <Tobias> less dynamic pages
[15:24:53] <stpeter> calendar updated
[15:25:41] <Kev> Ta.
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