XMPP Council - 2013-11-06


  1. Tobias has left
  2. Tobias has joined
  3. tato has joined
  4. tato has left
  5. Lance has left
  6. tato has joined
  7. stpeter has joined
  8. tato has left
  9. tato has joined
  10. stpeter has left
  11. stpeter has joined
  12. stpeter has left
  13. Tobias has left
  14. tato has left
  15. stpeter has joined
  16. stpeter has left
  17. stpeter has joined
  18. stpeter has left
  19. stpeter has left
  20. stpeter has left
  21. stpeter has left
  22. stpeter has left
  23. Neustradamus has joined
  24. Tobias has left
  25. Tobias has joined
  26. Kev has left
  27. Kev has left
  28. fippo has joined
  29. Peter Waher has joined
  30. Peter Waher has left
  31. Peter Waher has joined
  32. Peter Waher has left
  33. Peter Waher has joined
  34. Peter Waher has left
  35. Tobias has joined
  36. Lance has joined
  37. Tobias has joined
  38. MattJ has left
  39. MattJ has joined
  40. ralphm has joined
  41. Kev And five minutes to spare. Excellent.
  42. stpeter has joined
  43. stpeter hi!
  44. stpeter waves from IETF 88 in Vancouver
  45. Kev Howdy.
  46. Kev 'Tis time, tis time.
  47. Kev 1) Roll call.
  48. stpeter yepper!
  49. Lance here
  50. Kev I am here.
  51. ralphm here
  52. fippo here
  53. Tobias here
  54. MattJ Here
  55. Kev Fabulous.
  56. Kev 2) Welcome
  57. Kev Hi all, welcome to class of 2013. Or 2014. Or something.
  58. m&m has joined
  59. Kev 3) New Chair.
  60. stpeter the lucky 13th council :-)
  61. Kev We should choose a chair. I'm happy to do it again, or does anyone else fancy it?
  62. MattJ stpeter, uh-oh :)
  63. m&m heh
  64. Tobias Kev, what does it involve, other than running the meeting and posting minutes?
  65. stpeter triskaidekaphobics beware!
  66. m&m Tobias: running the meeting and posting minutes
  67. Kev That, keeping track of what needs to go on the agenda, pretty much.
  68. MattJ Kev, you were getting rather busy towards the end of the term - sure you can manage it? If yes, I'm happy with you as chair
  69. Kev Trying to keep to time, etc.
  70. Kev MattJ: Yeah. I need to get less busy than I was for my sanity as much as anything else. But I think things are better now.
  71. Tobias ah..ok
  72. Kev And will be better soon once I get a Swift hire :D
  73. Lance I'm happy with Kev as chair if he's up to it
  74. fippo '+1 for ke as chair
  75. stpeter Kev: indeed
  76. Tobias i'm happy with Kev, if he has the time for it
  77. Kev Fab, ta.
  78. Kev 4) 156. Peter wanted to talk about this.
  79. stpeter and Kevin Smith survives the no-confidence vote! ;-)
  80. stpeter oh yes
  81. stpeter 156
  82. stpeter so
  83. Tobias that was the alternative connection one, right?
  84. stpeter the XMPP Over Websocket references 156
  85. stpeter yes
  86. Kev XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html
  87. stpeter Lance and I have provisionally updated it to also have a web method
  88. Kanchil Kev: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0156.html: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  89. stpeter instead of the DNS TXT method (ick)
  90. stpeter http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html
  91. Kanchil stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  92. Lance Primarily because in a browser, we can't do DNS lookups
  93. stpeter http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http
  94. Kanchil stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  95. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  96. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  97. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  98. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  99. stpeter heh
  100. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  101. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  102. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  103. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  104. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  105. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  106. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  107. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  108. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  109. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  110. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  111. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  112. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  113. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  114. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  115. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  116. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  117. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  118. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  119. stpeter kick the bot!
  120. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  121. Kev I don't have rights to kick.
  122. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  123. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  124. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  125. Kev BRB.
  126. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  127. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  128. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  129. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  130. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  131. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  132. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  133. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  134. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  135. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  136. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  137. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  138. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  139. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  140. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  141. Tobias facepalms
  142. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  143. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  144. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  145. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  146. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  147. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  148. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  149. Kanchil Kanchil: http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html#http::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: XEP-0156: Discovering Alternative XMPP Connection Methods
  150. Kanchil has left
  151. Kev Destroyed the process.
  152. stpeter yay
  153. m&m whew
  154. stpeter ok
  155. ralphm (as a side remark, it would be pretty helpful if people would include titles along with XEP numeric references in e-mail (subjects))
  156. stpeter as I was saying
  157. m&m our long nightmare is over
  158. stpeter so
  159. m&m ralphm: +1
  160. ralphm revenge of the colon
  161. fippo ralphm: or the shortname at least
  162. Kev So, I'm not able to demote, which seems like it might be a Prosody bug and we should upgrade. And I should fix Kanchil.
  163. stpeter Ben Campbell (XMPP WG chair) mentioned that the 156 reference only talks about DNS TXT now
  164. stpeter which we'll fix
  165. ralphm right
  166. stpeter the question is how to handle the WebSocket-related registrations
  167. stpeter I'm inclined to leave 156 as it will be, but register the WebSocket entries from the RFC instead of putting them directly into 156
  168. bear has joined
  169. stpeter because all 156 1.1 does is say "here's a format for the URIs"
  170. Kev So leave 156 with the 1.1 .well-known stuff.
  171. stpeter in fact, I think the XMPP Over WebSocket RFC can register its desired .well-known URI directly with IANA, now that I think about it
  172. stpeter yes
  173. Kev stpeter: And by 'registrations' you mean the protocol registrations, not user registration.
  174. ralphm stpeter: so the XMPP Registrar doesn't need to be involved
  175. stpeter I mean urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket
  176. stpeter sorry, I mis-spoke
  177. Kev Right. And that just goes into the links in 156, right?
  178. stpeter yes
  179. stpeter as 156 1.1 says: Because the link relations specified here are extension relation types rather than registered relation types (see Section 4 of RFC 5988), this document requires no interaction with the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) [9].
  180. Kev So I think this is orthogonal to 156.
  181. Kev Ah, well, that's slightly inconvenient, but not a problem, I think. Websockets-xmpp can just give the right URI.
  182. stpeter so I think the X.O.W. RFC can register urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket with the XMPP Registrar, which is novel at least
  183. ralphm well, we can just add a back reference in the registry
  184. m&m given some of the discussion in past XMPP WG sessions (notably the lack of SRV in a number of registrars), would it be worth adding the equivalents for the existing SRV-based one?
  185. ralphm that seems fine to me
  186. Kev stpeter: Or we just allow free use of URIs in 156.
  187. ralphm yay for distributed standardization
  188. stpeter or of course the IETF could define its own URIs
  189. stpeter Kev: "free use"?
  190. Kev Not say these are special extension relation types, and allow more than urn:xmpp:alt-connections:httppoll urn:xmpp:alt-connections:websocket urn:xmpp:alt-connections:xbosh
  191. stpeter ah
  192. stpeter sure
  193. Kev But I'm fine with XOW registering too, I think it's a non-issue.
  194. stpeter agreed
  195. stpeter moving on, then?
  196. Lance which is already the case. 156 is using the host-meta file, which would potentially include other services
  197. Kev And we don't have so many of these that we seem to have scalability problems.
  198. stpeter Kev: right
  199. ralphm I'm sure our Registrar doesn't mind adding one or two things later
  200. stpeter Lance and I can communicate this to the XMPP WG on Friday
  201. Kev Fab, ta.
  202. Kev Moving along, then.
  203. Kev 5) http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xmpp-council/ Can people send their new bios along to someone with write access to that page, please?
  204. Kev I have a bad feeling that I have write access, and so that could be me.
  205. Kev I'm looking for an ack :)
  206. Lance will do
  207. fippo ack.
  208. Kev Good enough.
  209. stpeter if your don't write your own, I write 'em for you
  210. stpeter beware
  211. ralphm heh
  212. Kev 6) 300 (hashes) Fippo?
  213. ralphm I just noticed that I actually served 9 terms.
  214. m&m ralphm: longest running!
  215. fippo right... i would like to get 0300 to draft
  216. m&m fippo: +1
  217. Kev As-is, or do we need changes?
  218. fippo it seems well written and it would solve a problem i in 0320
  219. stpeter I haven't looked at it in a while
  220. fippo as-is. there has been little (or rather no) feedback on standards@
  221. Kev OK. Shall we shove LC onto the agenda for next meeting, then?
  222. fippo but matt miller has something in the works which will use it, too
  223. m&m I agree with fippo
  224. Kev stpeter: You happy with reinstating it without changes, or do we need to make a dummy change to move back to Experimental?
  225. stpeter as I recall, it didn't solve the problem for all XMPP extensions, but it would be useful for new ones
  226. Lance I seem to recall some issue with 300, I'll double check and post if that's true
  227. Kev Lance: OK, ta.
  228. stpeter thanks
  229. stpeter I shall review it again as well
  230. Kev Right.I think that was it for this meeting.
  231. Kev 7) Date of next.
  232. stpeter during the Pervasive Surveillance discussion this morning at the IETF meeting
  233. m&m at one point I wanted some way of having a convention for within data forms, but that's not very important to me anymore
  234. stpeter which should be quite entertaining :-)
  235. Kev Next week is one of my 'not good for me' weeks.
  236. stpeter live streaming will be available :-)
  237. stpeter I'll be on a plane next week
  238. Kev Would anyone like a meeting without me, or skip a week?
  239. Kev I'm proposing 16:10Z 20th November.
  240. stpeter WFM
  241. fippo WFM -- no urgent issues
  242. Lance wfm
  243. Kev MattJ/Tobias?
  244. Tobias wfm
  245. Kev Dangerously close to time here :)
  246. Kev OK, let's assume MattJ is OK too.
  247. Kev 8) AOB?
  248. stpeter AOB ... Lance was good enough to gather all the BOSH changes into a single patch, so I will apply that for review by the Council (124 + 206)
  249. Kev I saw that note, I just didn't think it needed discussion until the patch was out :)
  250. stpeter yep
  251. Kev Anything else?
  252. stpeter nothing here, I think
  253. Kev Good enough!
  254. Kev A minute over, don't want to make a habit of this :)
  255. Kev Thanks all.
  256. ralphm :-D
  257. Kev bangs the gavel.
  258. m&m hehe
  259. Tobias thank you
  260. stpeter good first meeting
  261. ralphm I blame it on Kanchil
  262. m&m ralph and me are Waldorf and Statler
  263. fippo ralphm: it looked like a silo...
  264. MattJ Sorry folks, power (and my router) went off
  265. ralphm m&m: They aren’t half bad.
  266. m&m they aren't half good either!
  267. Kev Everyone loves those guys.
  268. m&m HAR HAR HAR HAR
  269. stpeter looks at XEP-0300
  270. fippo stpeter: arguably base64 is better than something like 02:1A:CC:54:27:AB:EB:9C:53:3F:3E:4B:65:2E:7D:46:3F:54:42:CD:54:F1:7A:03:A2:7D:F9:B0:7F:46:19:B2
  271. Lance ah, found the issue, and looks like it was resolved. it was use of urn:xmpp:hash-function-textual-names vs urn:xmpp:hash-function-text-names
  272. Tobias but what form of base64 ^^
  273. Lance previous version was using both, but latest uses the '-text-' version only
  274. fippo i think it needs a sentence which describes that this is the base64 of the raw output something (i need to look it up) of the hash
  275. MattJ XEP-0115 has some text for that
  276. fippo right, in 5.1 bullet 9. perfect
  277. m&m has left
  278. m&m has joined
  279. stpeter I wonder if "These recommendations ought to be reviewed yearly by the XMPP Council" is a bit optimistic
  280. ralphm looks nice and vague to me :-D
  281. stpeter it is possible that URNs like "urn:iana:hash-function-text-names:md5" (not urn:xmpp) might be minted at some point
  282. Kev I don't know. Council seem able to turn up to their meetings, which is beating 60% of the new Board :)
  283. stpeter I was working with IANA on that for a while
  284. stpeter heh
  285. stpeter oh is there a Board meeting now? yikes
  286. ralphm stpeter: well, not yet, I suppose :-(
  287. Tobias has joined
  288. stpeter hmm
  289. m&m has left
  290. stpeter BTW the IETF plenary is live streamed at http://www.ietf.org/live/ if you're interested (the fun technical content hasn't started yet)
  291. bear when does it start?
  292. stpeter the plenary has started, but preliminaries are happening right now
  293. stpeter I can tell you when Bruce's talk starts
  294. bear I have the youtube channel up but it says "Please Stand By"
  295. bear the text stream is going strong tho
  296. m&m has joined
  297. stpeter http://ietf88streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf889.m3u is the audio
  298. m&m has left
  299. Tobias has joined
  300. bear opens m3u
  301. Tobias is the video steam working for any one?
  302. bear yes but i had to refresh many times
  303. stpeter fippo says "http://vancouver.conf.meetecho.com/WebLite/event.jsp?w=plenary might provide an alternative if youtube doesn't work"
  304. Tobias that works
  305. fippo tobias: your'e living in a developing country too, eh?
  306. Tobias fippo, apparently
  307. Tobias for me it just showed "This video is not available.", "Sorry about that" also known as ..."We're sooooo sorryyyy"
  308. Tobias fippo, did they geolock the youtube stream? ^^
  309. stpeter the audio stream might be good enough
  310. Tobias stpeter, the meetecho link worked :)
  311. stpeter great
  312. stpeter the meetecho guys are cool
  313. stpeter plus they like xmpp ;-)
  314. Neustradamus has joined
  315. Tobias has joined
  316. ralphm Is GEMA blocking even the IETF now?
  317. bear laughs at how quickly the "so sometimes it is possible to have consensus" comment was responded to
  318. Tobias has joined
  319. Tobias has left
  320. ralphm has left
  321. ralphm has joined
  322. ralphm has left
  323. ralphm has joined
  324. stpeter has left
  325. Lance has joined
  326. stpeter has joined
  327. Lance has joined
  328. Lance has left
  329. Lance has joined
  330. Tobias has joined
  331. ralphm has left
  332. Tobias has joined
  333. Tobias has joined
  334. stpeter has left
  335. stpeter has joined