Wednesday, November 27, 2013
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[09:42:39] <fippo> are there diffs for the 0124 and 0206 changes?
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[09:54:28] <fippo> the template needs an update to use &LEGALNOTICE;
[10:05:45] <Kev> fippo: http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/
[10:11:36] <fippo> thanks kev
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[12:54:39] <Kev> So Event Logging's off the agenda, if it's not been updated, presumably.
[12:55:09] *Tobias is just working through last meetings agenda :)
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[13:20:54] <Tobias> regarding rayo-fax, isn't sending and receiving facsimile via bare HTTP kind of insecure? how can you be sure you've got the right document?
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[13:57:16] <Tobias> are the changes to XEP-0206 really just the remove of references to RFC 3920?
[13:58:39] <Lance> Tobias: yeah, all of the substantive fixes are in 124
[13:58:49] <Tobias> ok..thx
[14:16:43] <Kev> Is it only me who thinks dynamic-forms is a little like 301 for 004?
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[14:19:39] <Lance> heh, that's a pretty good comparison
[14:24:10] <Kev> The note beneath example 3 is a bit wonky, it seems to be mandating the tab order in the UI.
[14:24:44] <Lance> i like the idea of dynamic forms, but i think the xml bits as defined are too messy
[14:38:08] <Kev> Do we habitually only show payloads without the wrapping stanzas anywhere else?
[14:40:00] <Lance> yes, we do that sometimes
[14:40:18] <Lance> the PEP ones in particular
[14:40:55] <Lance> but that's in an explicit data format section
[14:46:01] <fippo> kev: 0167 does that as well
[14:46:12] <fippo> in an "application format" section
[14:49:12] <Kev> OK, ta.
[14:50:52] <Kev> Hmm, errors with type='result' is a bit odd.
[14:51:53] <Kev> I was hoping to get everything reviewed in 2 hours. It's nearly been one, and I'm still on dynamic forms.
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[14:56:45] <fippo> ah... i'll have to vote on-list then :-/
[14:57:06] <fippo> at least for that item
[15:08:56] <Kev> I'm not convinced about some bits of this, not enough to block Experimental, I think, but I think it'd need rework before Draft.
[15:10:10] <Lance> what would block experimental, in general?
[15:10:41] <Kev> I'd generally block Experimental if something was clearly broken, or conflicted with existing specs.
[15:21:37] <Kev> I really want some chocolate before Council. Who wants to provide some? :)
[15:26:26] <Lance> yay, winfried reviewed the bosh updates
[15:28:48] <Tobias> the wizard stuff reminds me of the horror of adjusting to QWizards strange innards :)
[15:29:05] <fippo> "Patches to XEP-0206 only delete refs, without replacing them" sounds like he used the diff tool
[15:29:31] <Tobias> fippo, yeah...it seems to have problems with out cites
[15:39:58] <Tobias> Kev, how does it mandate tab ordering?
[15:40:56] <Tobias> you mean "should wait for the response before deciding which control is the next control to go to."?
[15:43:15] <Kev> Yes.
[15:44:51] <Tobias> it'd be doable...but what if the user just clicks on a another field...but yeah...it's not such nice of an experience
[15:46:55] <Kev> But why should it be doing this?
[15:47:51] <Tobias> probably preventing navigation to a field that a server-pushed update is removing
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[15:51:48] <fippo> we start in 19 minutes, right?
[15:52:18] <Tobias> yup
[15:52:35] *fippo drives home. will be back in time
[15:52:49] <Lance> For reference, here's the patch for 124 I missed when collecting them all: http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2013-February/027118.html
[15:55:06] <Kev> Does that mean we're not advancing 124 today?
[15:57:19] <Lance> I think so
[15:57:21] <Lance> :/
[15:57:53] <Lance> But keep it on the agenda to bring up any issues that have been found so far
[16:03:11] <Kev> And I'm finished reviewing stuff with 8 minutes to spare. Go me.
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[16:11:14] <Kev> And it's timee
[16:11:22] <Kev> 1) Roll call
[16:11:24] <Lance> here
[16:11:33] <Kev> (I've poked Matt)
[16:11:57] <fippo> here
[16:12:11] <Tobias> here
[16:12:18] <Tobias> Kev, both?
[16:12:26] <Kev> Both?
[16:12:31] <Tobias> nvm
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[16:12:43] <Kev> 2) http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0124-1.11.html
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[16:12:50] <Tobias> mattm isn't on the council anymore :)
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[16:13:10] <Kev> Lance still has pending changes before publishing 1.11, but are there any objections to what's there so far?
[16:13:27] <MattJ> I'm going to vote on BOSH on-list, I likely have quite a bit of feedback (I already pointed out one issue with the new doc)
[16:14:03] <Tobias> http://xmpp.org/extensions/diff/api/xep/0124/diff/1.10/vs/1.11rc1#added-diff-15 <--space separated -> comma-separated is it just fixing the documentation or is it implemented in both ways out there?
[16:14:05] <MattJ> But I may not object if the remainder isn't serious
[16:14:17] <MattJ> But stpeter said he would put up a new version
[16:14:25] <MattJ> (iirc)
[16:15:20] <Kev> Fippo?
[16:15:27] <fippo> looked good to me so far
[16:15:38] <Lance> Tobias: the text used to say space, but the example used commas
[16:15:57] <Kev> 3) http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0206-1.4.html
[16:16:05] <Tobias> Lance, ahh..okay..and out there it's implemented with commas
[16:16:20] <Tobias> i'm +1 on 206
[16:16:29] <fippo> i'm +1 too
[16:16:39] <Kev> I'm +1
[16:16:41] <Lance> +1 for 206
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[16:17:06] <Kev> MattJ?
[16:17:15] <MattJ> One sec, checking my notes
[16:17:17] <Kev> Oh, right, on list for this too, I guess.
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[16:17:21] <Kev> Or not :)
[16:17:32] <MattJ> +1 on this
[16:17:44] <Kev> 4) http://xmpp.org/extensions/tmp/xep-0156-1.1.html
[16:19:00] <Kev> Anyone? I'm +1
[16:19:04] <Tobias> +1
[16:19:07] <Lance> +1
[16:19:10] <MattJ> +1
[16:19:11] <fippo> yeah... i had a nit but poked lance
[16:19:38] <fippo> which resolved it so +1
[16:19:41] <Kev> Ta.
[16:19:53] <Kev> 5) http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/dynamic-forms.html
[16:20:48] <Lance> i have reservations with how this one is defined
[16:21:28] <fippo> i'll vote on list, no time to review it yet
[16:21:31] <Lance> not enough to block experimental, but it would need significant reworking
[16:21:39] <ralphm> Lance: agreed
[16:22:31] <Kev> I'm not blocking Experimental, although I think it needs work.
[16:22:33] <Tobias> i like the general idea and what possibilites it enables, although we don't want to enforce to much constraints on the UI
[16:22:57] <MattJ> I'm +1 for experimental
[16:22:59] <Kev> Tobias: What's that in terms of block or not?
[16:23:48] <Tobias> i'm okay with accepting it as experimental...but before it goes to draft this should be taken care of, at least discussed in the XEP
[16:23:57] <Kev> OK.
[16:24:22] <Kev> The new eventlogging was on the agenda, but that's not been published yet so it'll have to wait.
[16:24:27] <Kev> 6) Date of next.
[16:24:52] <Kev> I'm not able to make next week, so up to everyone else if you meet without me.
[16:25:13] <MattJ> I'm ok for next week
[16:25:22] *Lance checks calendar
[16:25:29] <Lance> oh, i won't be able to make next week either
[16:25:33] *Dave Cridland stripes calendar
[16:25:38] <Kev> Meetings usually get a little eratic around Christmas.
[16:25:49] <Kev> +spelling
[16:26:05] <fippo> next week works for me, the week after that likely doesn't
[16:26:35] <Kev> Tobias?
[16:27:06] <MattJ> I can make both weeks
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[16:27:25] <Tobias > both works
[16:27:30] <Dave Cridland> ETOOMANYTOBIAS
[16:27:54] <Kev> Ok, so Tobias, Matt, Fippo want to meet just the three of you?
[16:28:10] <Kev> Just +1/-1 for the sake of ease, please.
[16:28:24] <Tobias > i broke key input on mac by enabling assistive technologies
[16:28:26] <MattJ> -1, I don't see an urgency
[16:28:44] <fippo> -1, if something comes up we can still coordinate quick enough
[16:28:44] <Kev> (This is taking longer than any of the real items!)
[16:28:50] <ralphm> Just schedule all weeks. If no quorum, defer.
[16:28:52] <MattJ> It's a complex issue
[16:28:58] <Kev> OK, good enough. Shall we meet the following week, then?
[16:29:03] <MattJ> +1
[16:29:05] <Lance> +1
[16:29:07] <Dave Cridland> ralphm, Ha! Back in our day [etc]
[16:29:08] <Tobias > +1
[16:29:20] <Kev> ralphm: Planning to not have quorum seems ill-advisable.
[16:29:29] <Kev> 7) AOB?
[16:29:32] <MattJ> ralphm, Dave Cridland: Don't you have a video call to attend to? ;)
[16:29:34] <fippo> ben langfield updated the nits in the rayo-cpa and -fax btw
[16:29:48] <MattJ> Kev, none here
[16:30:09] <winfried> Can I drop in a bit?
[16:30:12] <Tobias > none XSF related from me
[16:30:13] <Kev> winfried: Sure.
[16:30:14] <ralphm> Kev: Good, I'm not advising you plan to not have quorum.
[16:30:56] <winfried> I checked the XEP-0124 and XEP-0206 changes against te lists we made at FOSDEM
[16:31:26] <winfried> there are still some patches misssing and some (minor) issues with the patches
[16:31:33] <winfried> (sorry for doing this so late)
[16:31:44] <MattJ> winfried, can you post to the list?
[16:31:46] <ralphm> winfried: you should post that to the list
[16:31:49] <MattJ> Since I'm to do the same anyway
[16:31:50] <Dave Cridland> He has.
[16:31:51] <fippo> he did.
[16:31:53] <Kev> winfried already has :)
[16:31:55] <MattJ> Oh :P
[16:31:56] <ralphm> yay
[16:32:03] <MattJ> Well I'll take a look then, must have missed it
[16:32:10] <Kev> Only just before Council.
[16:32:13] <Lance> that's why I asked for 124 to be postponed for me to correct those
[16:32:15] <winfried> yep...
[16:32:28] <Kev> winfried: Anything to discuss here? We delayed 124 anyway.
[16:32:29] <MattJ> Got it
[16:32:36] <Dave Cridland> winfried, Is there any sense if putting through this update and then adding the open issues later?
[16:33:03] <Dave Cridland> winfried, Perfect being the enemy of good, and all that.
[16:33:24] <winfried> the missing patch of M&M better should be incorporated
[16:33:36] <winfried> other updates can be done later
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[16:33:41] <winfried> (maybe better even)
[16:33:46] <Kev> This can all happen on list, yes? There's no Council actions here.
[16:33:53] <winfried> OK
[16:34:00] <Kev> Marvellous.
[16:34:01] <Kev> Thanks all.
[16:34:04] *Kev bangs the gavel
[16:34:04] <MattJ> Thanks Kev
[16:34:08] <winfried> thanks
[16:34:14] <Tobias> thanks kev
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[16:34:20] *Dave Cridland trots over to the Board meeting.
[16:34:27] *ralphm follows Dave Cridland
[16:34:32] <MattJ> Simon, nothing to see here, just discussing BO*H
[16:34:54] <winfried> ;-)
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