Wednesday, March 26, 2014
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[14:27:20] <Kev> Unless the Editors get back to me, I don't think we have anything that we need to discuss today.
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[15:47:50] <stpeter> Kev: BTW m&m sends his regrets
[15:48:10] <stpeter> or sent
[15:48:12] <stpeter> or something
[15:48:20] <Kev> Ta.
[15:48:24] <Kev> Not that he's obliged to turn up :)
[15:48:26] <stpeter> have you folks changed to Summer Time yet?
[15:48:29] <Kev> No.
[15:48:33] <stpeter> ah ok
[15:48:51] <Zash> You mean Wrong Time?
[15:49:07] <stpeter> I admit that I keep a few clocks on standard time :-)
[15:49:52] <Tobias> stpeter, like the oven clock :P
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[15:50:24] <Zash> Probably this weekend that Sweden goes silly time. Last weekend in Mars or somesuch.
[15:50:45] <Tobias> Zash, yeah...on the 30th
[15:50:51] <Tobias> at least in DE
[15:51:19] <Zash> Standardized by the EU? :)
[15:51:43] <Kev> I believe it's consistent across Europe, at least.
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[16:00:44] <Kev> 'tis time, 'tis time.
[16:00:55] <Tobias> here
[16:00:56] <Kev> Should be short, as I think we have no agenda.
[16:00:58] <Kev> 1) Roll call.
[16:01:01] <Kev> Tobias: Too eager :p
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[16:01:21] <Lance> here
[16:01:24] <Tobias> Kev, you're connection is too laggy...i bet you've already typed it in
[16:01:34] <stpeter> :)
[16:01:45] <stpeter> Tobias is using the new FTL transport
[16:01:55] <Kev> XMPP-over-Neutrinos.
[16:01:59] <Tobias> Kev, your connection is too laggy...i bet you've already typed it in
[16:02:06] <Tobias> :)
[16:02:29] <Kev> MattJ: Here?
[16:02:44] <MattJ> Here
[16:03:00] <Zash> MattJ: There?
[16:03:06] <MattJ> There also
[16:03:07] <Kev> I don't remember Fippo sending apologies, will check the logs.
[16:03:17] <Kev> 2) Date of next.
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[16:03:51] <stpeter> I can ping Fippo if needed :-)
[16:03:56] <Kev> stpeter: I did so.
[16:04:06] <Kev> I think we move to 17:00Z next week, yes?
[16:04:11] <MattJ> Yes
[16:04:28] <Kev> Everyone OK with that?
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[16:04:50] <stpeter> fine with me
[16:04:54] <Kev> I'll take that as a yes.
[16:04:59] <stpeter> I'll update the calendar events
[16:05:01] <Kev> 3) Any other business.
[16:05:03] <Kev> stpeter: Ta.
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[16:05:24] <Peter Waher> haven't received any comments or questions on the IoT Discovery proposal
[16:05:26] <Kev> Anticipating Peter's question about discovery - it was presented to Council last week. Objection period ends next Wednesday.
[16:05:26] <stpeter> speaking of which, I need to ping Tobias about getting the right code onto perseus.jabber.org so that we can run calgen.py
[16:05:29] <Peter Waher> if you have any, please send them to me
[16:05:41] <Kev> And he still beat me :/
[16:05:49] <Peter Waher> :)
[16:05:59] <Tobias> stpeter, can have a look at it later today
[16:06:05] <Kev> stpeter: I can probably sort that out, if you tell me what you need.
[16:06:12] <Kev> OK, I think we're done then.
[16:06:14] <Kev> Thanks all.
[16:06:17] *Kev bangs the gavel.
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[16:06:37] <Peter Waher> (y)
[16:06:39] <stpeter> the icalendar python lib is missing at the least, not sure what else because I got distracted from testing :-)
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[16:06:54] <Kev> I'll make you a virtualenv now.
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[16:07:42] <Tobias> virtualenv rings a bell...i've either used it for gen.py or calgen.py or both
[16:09:23] <Kev> stpeter: There is now a virtualenv in /usr/local/virtualenv/calgen with icalendar installed.
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[16:27:25] <stpeter> Kev: thanks!
[16:28:50] <Kev> It's owned by the xsf user, so if you need anything else in it, you can /usr/local/virtualenv/calgen/bin/easy_install THAT_THING.
[16:44:11] <bear> if the virtualenv is active it will have pip in the local path
[16:44:22] <bear> so "pip THAT_THING" will be all that is required
[16:45:29] <Kev> bear: I think 'activating' virtualenvs is just going to cause us pain, compared to using them explicitly.
[16:45:55] <Kev> YMMV, what with me not being a Python person.
[16:46:07] <bear> it can be done in any scripts and it *really* is the sanest way
[16:46:17] <Kev> In scripts, yes.
[16:46:31] <Kev> But doing it in a shell, I don't think is a good idea.
[16:46:32] <bear> I should be able to help craft scripts and the .profile stuff to make it happen for logins
[16:46:42] <bear> ". bin/activate"
[16:46:45] <bear> that's all you need to type
[16:46:50] <Kev> I understand the mechanics.
[16:46:53] <Kev> I think it's a bad idea.
[16:47:08] <Kev> It just encourages you to slip and install the wrong thing in the wrong place.
[16:47:23] <bear> ah
[16:47:41] <bear> that's is a common view for non-python folks who don't spend all day in venvs
[16:48:25] <Kev> As I said.
[16:48:33] *bear nods
[16:48:43] <bear> sorry - distracted and tired bear is ... distracted and tired
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[16:49:08] <Kev> I can relate.
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[17:01:59] <Kev> I note that I screwed up the timezone switch, and I think what we meant to agree to was a move to 15:00Z, not to 17:00Z.
[17:03:08] <MattJ> Heh
[17:06:21] <stpeter> OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/virtualenv/hg/build'
[17:06:38] <stpeter> perhaps 'xsf' needs to own that one, too (not just calgen)?
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[17:06:59] <Kev> Oh, you need to install stuff in there?
[17:07:03] <Kev> I thought I'd got that one all working.
[17:07:44] <stpeter> when I tried 'pip install icalendar' I got that error
[17:08:03] <Kev> Why does the difftool need icalendar?
[17:10:32] <stpeter> ask Tobias :-)
[17:11:56] <Kev> I thought I had the difftool working - what's broken?
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[17:15:58] <Kev> stpeter: What caused you to want to install icalendar into the difftool's virtualenv?
[17:17:59] <stpeter> um
[17:18:03] <stpeter> I didn't want to
[17:18:06] <Kev> Oh.
[17:18:10] <Kev> Ah.
[17:18:18] <stpeter> I probably don't understand virtualenv
[17:18:25] <Kev> I think you're doing half of what Bear suggested, and not what I suggested.
[17:18:47] <stpeter> I did 'pip install icalender' at /usr/local/virtualenv/calgen but perhaps that's not right
[17:18:50] <Kev> If you want to run a script in the calgen virtualenv, just make the shebang into #!/usr/local/virtualenv/calgen/bin/python
[17:18:57] <Kev> Yes, that's not right.
[17:19:02] <Kev> Completely ignore what Bear said :)
[17:19:03] <stpeter> k :-)
[17:19:05] <stpeter> heh
[17:19:13] <stpeter> ah, ok
[17:19:15] <bear> yes, I was wrong to interject - apologies
[17:19:22] <stpeter> bear: no worries!
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[17:19:27] <Kev> Bear was giving advice based on us being fluent in Python :)
[17:20:42] <Kev> If you want to install packages into the calgen virtualenv, use /usr/local/virtualenv/calgen/bin/easy_install THE_THING. You could use /usr/local/virtualenv/calgen/bin/pip instead, but I habitually use easy_install and always have.
[17:22:20] <stpeter> ok
[17:22:33] <stpeter> well, I still have issues:

$ ./calgen.py
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "./calgen.py", line 45, in <module>
from icalendar import Calendar, Event, Alarm, UTC, vText
ImportError: cannot import name UTC

but I've made progress
[17:22:54] <Kev> The reason we use multiple virtualenvs is to avoid screwing up e.g. the difftool when we're installing packages for calgen. Or whatever.
[17:23:09] <stpeter> sure, makes perfect sense
[17:23:51] <Kev> That suggests to me a change in the icalendar package.
[17:24:07] <Kev> (If the package was completely missing, I wouldn't have expected the other imports to succeed)
[17:24:20] <Kev> This is where bear is likely to be useful :)
[17:25:07] <bear> that is a version mismatch (smells like a version mismatch)
[17:25:45] <stpeter> right, that's what I was thinking
[17:25:48] <bear> are you running python v3 and not noticing
[17:26:02] <bear> because UTC was renamed to Utc in the python v3 package
[17:26:06] <bear> of icalendar
[17:26:17] <stpeter> heh nice
[17:26:24] <Kev> Python 2.7.3 (default, Mar 13 2014, 11:03:55)
[17:26:37] <bear> yea, 2.7+ picks up a lot of v3 changes
[17:26:48] <bear> so change the code to import Utc instead of UTC
[17:27:21] <stpeter> ok, well, something to investigate a bit later
[17:27:41] <bear> sorry - in non python speak... library maintainers like to keep their source running in python v2.7 like it is in python v3 as that makes their life easier
[17:28:06] <Kev> I got that :)
[17:31:26] <stpeter> ah yes, "Renamed the UTC class to Utc, so it would not clash with the UTC object, since that rendered the UTC object unpicklable." https://github.com/collective/icalendar/blob/master/CHANGES.rst
[17:31:49] <Kev> stpeter: I think all you need to do is edit the import line in Tobias's script. I can do this if you'd like.
[17:32:31] <stpeter> yeah I tried that already but it's still not happy, we might multiple versions installed or something strange, checking
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[17:34:03] <stpeter> oh well, I think this will be an evening project, I need to do some paying work :-)
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