XSF logo XMPP Council - 2016-07-13


  1. SamWhited has left
  2. Dave Cridland has left
  3. Tobias has joined
  4. Tobias has joined
  5. narcode has left
  6. Dave Cridland has left
  7. Dave Cridland has joined
  8. Kev has left
  9. narcode has joined
  10. Dave Cridland has left
  11. Dave Cridland has joined
  12. Neustradamus has left
  13. Neustradamus has joined
  14. SamWhited has left
  15. Tobias has joined
  16. Neustradamus has left
  17. Neustradamus has joined
  18. Dave Cridland has left
  19. ralphm has joined
  20. ralphm has left
  21. Dave Cridland has joined
  22. Dave Cridland has left
  23. Dave Cridland has joined
  24. Dave Cridland has left
  25. Dave Cridland has joined
  26. Dave Cridland has left
  27. Dave Cridland has joined
  28. ralphm has left
  29. Dave Cridland has left
  30. Dave Cridland has joined
  31. Dave Cridland has left
  32. Dave Cridland has left
  33. Zash has joined
  34. ralphm has left
  35. Tobias has joined
  36. Flow has joined
  37. Tobias has left
  38. Tobias has joined
  39. Tobias has joined
  40. ralphm has joined
  41. Tobias has joined
  42. Tobias has joined
  43. Tobias has joined
  44. Tobias has joined
  45. Tobias has joined
  46. Tobias has joined
  47. Tobias has joined
  48. Tobias has joined
  49. Tobias has left
  50. Dave Cridland has left
  51. Dave Cridland has left
  52. Zash has joined
  53. Zash has joined
  54. Dave Cridland has left
  55. Tobias has left
  56. Dave Cridland has left
  57. Dave Cridland has left
  58. Dave Cridland has left
  59. Dave Cridland has left
  60. Dave Cridland has left
  61. Dave Cridland has left
  62. Dave Cridland has left
  63. Dave Cridland has left
  64. Dave Cridland has left
  65. Neustradamus has left
  66. Neustradamus has left
  67. SouL has left
  68. ralphm has joined
  69. Tobias has left
  70. Neustradamus has left
  71. ralphm has left
  72. psa has joined
  73. Dave Cridland has left
  74. Lance has joined
  75. SouL has left
  76. Lance I'm not going to be able to be in the meeting today. Agenda item is: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/pars.html
  77. MattJ Here
  78. Dave Cridland Also present.
  79. SamWhited notates
  80. Tobias here :P
  81. MattJ Anyone else? or should we skip?
  82. MattJ Great :)
  83. Zash 3/?
  84. Tobias of 5 i think
  85. ralphm hi
  86. Zash psa?
  87. SamWhited Who chairs in Lance's absence?
  88. psa here
  89. MattJ I nominate Dave Cridland
  90. Dave Cridland Oh. I suppose so.
  91. Dave Cridland wonders what he's done to MattJ.
  92. Dave Cridland Anyone object?
  93. Dave Cridland If not:
  94. MattJ Dave Cridland, you're a born leader, it was inevitable
  95. Dave Cridland 1) Roll Call:
  96. Tobias here
  97. MattJ here
  98. Dave Cridland MattJ, Leaders called Dave are going out of fashion.
  99. SamWhited *snort*
  100. Tobias Donald is en vogue now I've heard
  101. Dave Cridland 2) I think PARS is the only thing on the agenda. Anyone have a vote?
  102. Tobias i'll vote on list
  103. Dave Cridland Tobias, We almost have May as PM, it's looking promising we'll have Hammond as Chancellor as well. Many are holding out for Clarkson as Foreign Sec.
  104. psa Personally I don't (yet) see the need for PARS
  105. psa But that would make me +0 on publication.
  106. Dave Cridland I don't think I have any objections either.
  107. Dave Cridland MattJ, ?
  108. Tobias Dave Cridland, sounds like a fun team to obvserve from the mainland ;)
  109. SamWhited Dave: I'd consider moving to the UK if that were the case; Clarkson would make an awesome Foreign Sec; no messing about, if a country annoys him, they'd get punched in the face :)
  110. ralphm SamWhited: +1
  111. ralphm Also looking forward to him testing out all gov vehicles
  112. MattJ +1 to PARS
  113. Dave Cridland SamWhited, You appreciate that Clarkson's policies would be the same as Trump's?
  114. SamWhited (sorry, on topic, Dave does "no objections" mean +1 or +0?)
  115. psa sheesh, even in the XMPP Council meeting I can't get away from politics
  116. SamWhited Dave Cridland: Yah, except with more common sense and less racism
  117. Dave Cridland SamWhited, It makes no difference, actually. We don't vote for protoxeps, we only veto (or not).
  118. SamWhited ah, okay, I'll just mark you as a +1 then.
  119. MattJ SamWhited, you'll regret asking :)
  120. Dave Cridland SamWhited, But I'm more 0 than +1, i think.
  121. MattJ SamWhited, we don't +1 proposals, we just object or don't object, for $reasons
  122. SamWhited 👍 thanks for the clarification.
  123. MattJ All the same in the end
  124. SamWhited Cool, I've recorded "no objection" for everyone but Tobias who will review and vote on list.
  125. Tobias sound correct
  126. SamWhited (wanted to clarify since we got a bit off topic; sorry :) )
  127. Dave Cridland OK, AOB?
  128. Dave Cridland I do note that there is an outstanding pull request to XEP-0053 (Registrar). It'd benefit the Board, I think, to have views from Council members.
  129. Tobias is there any action need from the council
  130. Tobias i put in in trello on behalf of Flow
  131. Dave Cridland Tobias, Council is not mandated to do anything. But I'll be recommending that Board ask Council's opinion.
  132. SamWhited Just having opinions here on the record would be good
  133. ralphm What's the status of the Registrar pages?
  134. Dave Cridland And yes, if anyone has opinions, then that'd short-cut that process.
  135. ralphm (not that this is a question for Council directly)
  136. SamWhited (related: Can someone make a "Needs Board" label on Github or give me permission to create labels?)
  137. MattJ Link to the PR?
  138. SamWhited https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/192
  139. MattJ If I had any context on this, I don't remember
  140. MattJ Thanks
  141. ralphm (is not)
  142. Tobias i think it sounds sensible
  143. MattJ Ah yes
  144. MattJ I agree with this
  145. SamWhited Note that this would be work for the already behind editor team (but I'm not against it and also think it's sensible)
  146. Dave Cridland OK. Moving on:
  147. ralphm I thought somebody was working on having those pages generate again, but it's been a while since I hear about it
  148. Dave Cridland 4) Next meeting:
  149. Dave Cridland Same time same place?
  150. Tobias wfm
  151. psa WFM
  152. Dave Cridland 5) Ite, Meeting Est.
  153. MattJ +1
  154. psa @ralphm yes we need to get that fixed, I need to head to the airport soon but maybe I can look at it again on Friday when I'm back
  155. Dave Cridland Thanks all.
  156. MattJ Thanks Dave Cridland
  157. psa yep thanks!
  158. Dave Cridland And thanks to SamWhited for the minute-taking.
  159. SamWhited Date of next confirmed as 2016-07-20 15:00:00 UTC (going to start putting actual times in the minutes because I can never remember what or when sbtsbc is
  160. ralphm psa: there was also the question on where the source for it is now with the reshuffling of repos. I seem to remember the registrar section would need to be extracted from the old repo (preserving history)
  161. ralphm Kev: right?
  162. Kev Sorry, just sat down, how much context do I need to read?
  163. ralphm few lines back
  164. ralphm I was talking about the status of the registrar pages
  165. Kev I created https://github.com/xsf/registrar with all the old context in
  166. Kev But I don't remember if I did anything more with it.
  167. ralphm so it just needs something to autogen from that?
  168. Kev We're still suffering the aftermath of the dismal new site launch.
  169. Dave Cridland SamWhited, That was impressively quick, thanks.
  170. SamWhited Dave Cridland: Thanks; I like to take notes live, otherwise getting context afterwards is tricky, so they're already right there and ready to be sent :)
  171. Tobias there's also https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/issues/192
  172. ralphm Kev: oh? I thought it was really smooth!
  173. Kev ralphm: I think how we update various things is still unclear.
  174. ralphm marvelous
  175. ralphm has left
  176. SouL has left
  177. Tobias right...i'm all for keeping the URLs working...just the question, where to keep the schema info..if we got it in a repo it's trivial to add 2 lines to the cronjob script that updates a directory with changes
  178. Dave Cridland has left
  179. SamWhited Let's keep the canonical version in the repo Kev made and have the website generate from that. If they're all mixed up it's just going to make updating registry entries (and keeping track of issues) harder for the editors.
  180. Tobias does the registrar repo include the schamata?
  181. Tobias psa, btw: were the schemata extracted from the XEP XML or were they independent?
  182. ralphm I don't think it is in that repo, and it might be better off either independent or as part of the XEP repo
  183. ralphm Tobias: good question
  184. SamWhited oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I didn't realize XSLs were something different from schemas.
  185. Tobias i think the repo Kev created is for the registry, it includes XSL files to translate the XML to XHTML i think
  186. psa Tobias: yes, extracted from the XEP once it advanced to Draft or whatever
  187. psa XSL, XSD, whatever ;-)
  188. Tobias so we have hisotric versions? or why was it not always taked from the XEPs and turned into XML/HTML, ....wonder why the intermediate files were version controlled
  189. Tobias if it's all in the XEPs we probably won't need another repo, right?
  190. psa these were intended to be machine-readable
  191. SamWhited Oh, these are the things in the XEPs? I'm so confused. I should probably learn how XML works outside of the basic profile XMPP uses one of these days…
  192. psa i.e., separate files so that a validating XMPP server (not recommended, but there are some!) could ingest those files directly into its process
  193. Tobias psa, and the schemata in the XEP XML isn't? were there manual steps involved?
  194. Tobias right
  195. psa how does someone (a machine) know where the schemas begin and end if they're mixed in with all that prose?
  196. SamWhited If this data is all in the XEPs, the XEPs are probably the source of truth, so I think where the extracted data lives is a matter of whos responsibility it is. If it's the editors responsibility to extract these from the XEPs, I'd say separate repo. If it's just a website thing and it's someone on the website teams responsibility, wherever they want (probably in the website repo)
  197. Tobias just want to avoid all to much duplicated work for editors or whoever...so thought it'd be possible to just take each of the blocks from http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#schemas and put it in its own XML schema file, right?
  198. Tobias i mean that's basically what was done with the old repo, not?
  199. Tobias just that the output was then version controlled
  200. psa But yeah at this point I don't think we probably need a separate schemas directory / repo - however, setting up redirects from the old URLs to the XEP URLs would be good
  201. ralphm has left
  202. Tobias ok
  203. Tobias if someones knows how to rescue the schema folder from our old repo and put it in a github repo that would be great
  204. Tobias if that's done i'm happy to do the integration of registrar and schema repos in the new website
  205. Kev You mean extract the schema folder such that there's a new repo with all the old history of the folder, but containing only the contents of that one folder?
  206. Tobias right
  207. Tobias the thing you did for the registry folder
  208. Kev Yep, no idea how to do that :)
  209. Kev I've not been following the conversation, but is that something that there's agreement I should be doing now?
  210. Tobias i don't think we'll ever see more agreement than we have right now
  211. Kev OK.
  212. Kev You're Council, so I'll believe you :)
  213. SamWhited dissapeared for a moment, but if we want the history of one directory tree in a git repo you can do it with read-tree; it's fantastic.
  214. SouL has left
  215. SamWhited I made this issue for follow up work on proposed XEPs, please correct me if anything there is glaringly wrong or misunderstood: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/issues/209
  216. SamWhited I suppose if the registries are generated straight from the XEPs we won't have to actually go through them all, the tooling can just check if they're experimental and add them to the proposed category
  217. Dave Cridland has left
  218. Dave Cridland has left
  219. Kev So, 'schemas' as the name of the new repo?
  220. Kev Good - https://github.com/xsf/schemas
  221. Kev And the Editors have write access.
  222. SamWhited goes ahead and submits a PR for a pet peeve of his
  223. Kev goes ahead and merges
  224. SamWhited wonders if there's a high five emoji; if not, there should be
  225. Kev I don't *think* so.
  226. psa ^5 @SamWhited
  227. SamWhited Oh wow, I've seen people use that and thought it was some kind of odd twisty winky face :)
  228. Dave Cridland has left
  229. MattJ
  230. psa SamWhited: yeah, took me awhile to figure out
  231. MattJ Could become a new complement in code reviews...
  232. Dave Cridland has left
  233. Dave Cridland has left
  234. Dave Cridland has left
  235. Neustradamus has left
  236. Dave Cridland has left
  237. Dave Cridland has left
  238. Dave Cridland has left
  239. Lance has joined
  240. psa has left
  241. Dave Cridland has left
  242. Lance has joined
  243. SouL has left
  244. Tobias Dave Cridland, seem you've got Johnson instead of Clarkson ;)
  245. SamWhited Do we have a general rule for what to do if an author never replies to the "Your XEP was updated, please approve" email?
  246. Tobias Do the have to approve?
  247. Tobias Do they have to approve?
  248. SamWhited Also, I forgot to bring this up at the meeting this morning, but this could use council approval (or disaproval) next week: https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/204
  249. SamWhited (I think it needs council since 0045 is Draft)
  250. SouL has left
  251. Tobias there is also https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/184 luring around for months :)
  252. Dave Cridland has left
  253. Tobias has left
  254. Kev I think the thing to do if an author doesn't respond is to ask Council what to do.
  255. Kev There's nothing in our bylaws (of which I'm aware) that requires authors to approve - Council is the body that is responsible for (most) XEPs.
  256. Kev Just that we usually have the authors manage these things, because why wouldn't we?
  257. Tobias And council rolls a dice?
  258. Kev Presumably Council would review the change and decide whether to accept it.
  259. Tobias ah ok
  260. Flow has left
  261. Dave Cridland has left
  262. Kev I imagine usually authors don't reply because either they miss the poke, or they're not interested in working on the XEP any more.
  263. Kev If it's that they're active and missed it, poking again is sensible. If they're not interested in working on the XEP any more and it's stable and stuff, just Council reviewing a change makes sense, if it's a XEP that needs continuing authorship, finding a new author probably makes sense.
  264. Dave Cridland has left
  265. Tobias right..poking definitely makes sense...just wanted to express that we shouldn't block any updates just because the original author is unresponsive
  266. Kev /schemas and /registry wasn't it?
  267. Kev Not sure.
  268. Tobias nearly correct https://web.archive.org/web/20141029032728/http://xmpp.org/resources/registrar/
  269. SouL has left
  270. SouL has left
  271. SouL has left
  272. SouL has left
  273. SouL has left
  274. SouL has left
  275. SouL has left
  276. SouL has left
  277. SouL has joined
  278. Dave Cridland has left
  279. Tokodomo has left
  280. Tokodomo has joined
  281. Zash has left
  282. Dave Cridland Tobias, I so hope that's a poor joke.
  283. Dave Cridland Oh, crap. It is, but it's Boris.
  284. Tobias yup :/
  285. Tobias has joined
  286. Dave Cridland has left
  287. Lance has joined
  288. Dave Cridland has left
  289. Dave Cridland has left
  290. SouL has left
  291. Dave Cridland has left
  292. Dave Cridland has left
  293. Dave Cridland has left
  294. Dave Cridland has left
  295. Dave Cridland has left
  296. Lance has joined
  297. Tobias has joined
  298. Tobias has joined