Wednesday, March 15, 2017
council@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Council Room | https://xmpp.org/about/xmpp-standards-foundation#council | Room logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/council/ | https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda

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[14:12:17] <SamWhited> FYI: I have a meeting that got rescheduled for 1630z today, so I might dissapear half way through the council meeting or somewhere thereabouts.
[14:13:55] <daniel> I won't make it today
[14:20:57] <Tobias> ok..thanks for letting us know
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[16:00:41] <Tobias> sounds it's about time
[16:00:45] <Tobias> 1) roll call
[16:00:59] <SamWhited> here
[16:01:25] <Tobias> Dave Cridland, Link Mauve?
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[16:02:57] <Tobias> hmm..let's see if we can be more than two people for our meeting today :)
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[16:03:30] *Tobias plays jeopardy jingle
[16:04:10] <Dave Cridland> I am here, sorry
[16:04:22] <Dave Cridland> Just finishing off a phone call. Blame Phil.
[16:04:33] <Tobias> oki doki
[16:04:44] <Tobias> 2) Minute taker
[16:04:52] <Tobias> I can write up minutes for today
[16:05:23] <Tobias> 3) https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2017-February/032328.html
[16:05:58] <Tobias> I think Link Mauve is planning to do a review and come up with a migration plan. Any news on that?
[16:07:02] <Dave Cridland> Tobias, I thought Jonas had come up with a replacement XEP-0115 that solves all these things, at least in this case?
[16:07:34] <Tobias> right...I was planning to review that...might as well do it this evening, with other github PRs
[16:07:55] <Tobias> Dave Cridland, it was just that the trello card mentioned Link Mauve https://trello.com/c/IUXIWOdC/170-https-mail-jabber-org-pipermail-standards-2017-february-032328-html
[16:08:12] <Dave Cridland> Fairy Nuff.
[16:08:14] <SamWhited> I think Link Mauve was going to come up with a general deprecation policy / audit existing usages
[16:08:21] <Dave Cridland> That would be useful.
[16:09:14] <Tobias> so nothing actionable for us here it seems, other than reviewing Jonas' XEP
[16:09:28] <Tobias> 4) IEEE IoT https://trello.com/c/5SHoH80M/171-ieee-iot
[16:10:34] <Tobias> Dave Cridland, you suggested we appoint a liason as a first step?
[16:10:38] <SamWhited> I sent out an email; no response.
[16:10:40] <Dave Cridland> Yeah...
[16:10:46] <Dave Cridland> SamWhited, I totally missed that.
[16:10:54] <Tobias> SamWhited, yeah...just read it, haven't replied to it yet
[16:11:15] <Tobias> maybe the council should have a meeting together with our IoT SIG?
[16:11:30] <Dave Cridland> That sounds sane.
[16:11:41] <SamWhited> I would prefer to not be a part of that, but will be there if people feel strongly that we should.
[16:12:13] <Dave Cridland> I was thinking a formal liaison because most SDOs - like IEEE and ITU, as well as IETF - actually have processes for these.
[16:12:31] <Tobias> Dave Cridland, do we (XSF) have processes for that?
[16:12:47] <Dave Cridland> So they can be allowed into all the meetings, etc.
[16:13:06] <Dave Cridland> Tobias, Yes, sorta. Council picks a person, Board ratifies, and "it happens". Somehow.
[16:13:40] <Dave Cridland> Tobias, Undocumented process, probably. But we needed it for ... erm, something. UPnP, I think.
[16:13:43] <Tobias> didn't we vote on that already?
[16:14:08] <Tobias> probably confusing that with something else, can't find it in my mail
[16:14:14] <Dave Cridland> A Liaison to IEEE's IoT group? Not that I know of.
[16:14:42] <Tobias> but yeah, I will talk with the people from our IoT SIG about that
[16:14:50] <Tobias> also will reply to Sam's mail later today
[16:15:16] <Tobias> 5) AOB
[16:15:31] <Tobias> There are still outstanding votes for some things
[16:15:33] <SamWhited> Editor hat reminder about outstanding votes
[16:15:37] <SamWhited> Yah, that. Tobias ++
[16:15:48] <Dave Cridland> Probably lots of mine. I'll look.
[16:16:16] <Tobias> yeah...have a look at trello https://trello.com/b/ww7zWMlI/xmpp-council-agenda , reply to the corresponding meeting minutes with your votes, ta
[16:16:27] <Tobias> further AOB from anyone?
[16:16:48] <SamWhited> I've lost track of what's in LC and what ends when again; I'll ping ralph and try to get a trello again during the board meeting.
[16:16:53] <SamWhited> And then try to clean that up.
[16:16:54] <Dave Cridland> Only that implementing MIX is suggesting it's not nearly as complete as we might have hoped. :-/
[16:17:24] <Tobias> Dave Cridland, well..p1 implemented it too, not?
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[16:17:43] <Dave Cridland> Tobias, They implementing grouchat over pubsub; not quite the same thing.
[16:18:06] <Tobias> misread mikael mail then probably
[16:18:48] <Tobias> seems there's no further AOB
[16:18:57] <Tobias> 6) Date of next
[16:19:07] <Tobias> same day of week, next week, same time of day
[16:19:09] <Tobias> ?
[16:19:20] <Dave Cridland> Sounds good.
[16:19:22] <SamWhited> WFM
[16:19:29] <Tobias> great
[16:19:31] *Tobias bangs the gavel
[16:19:34] <Dave Cridland> Although if Wednesday is causing problems, I'm open to changes.
[16:19:39] <Tobias> thanks everybody
[16:20:08] <Tobias> Dave Cridland, please reply to my upcoming meeting minutes with more ideal alternatives and we'll see what works for everybody
[16:20:31] <Dave Cridland> Wednesday is fine for me.
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[16:25:09] <Kev> Haven't followed the meeting, but:
> Only that implementing MIX is suggesting it's not nearly as complete as we might have hoped. :-/

This is why we have experimental, and why I've been keen people try to implement it because I wasn't at all convinced we'd solve everything spec-only.
[16:25:28] <Dave Cridland> Oh, it's not unexpected.
[16:25:41] <Kev> I've not read the list post yet either, but I'm not at all surprised to find things that are incomplete, or just outright stupid or wrong.
[16:25:48] <Tobias> na...it's now implemented everywhere, we can't change it anymore. Let's move it to draft, nah..it has issues that should be fixed first....
[16:25:54] <Dave Cridland> Just I'd been honestly thinking we were much closer than we actually are. My misinterpretation.
[16:26:35] <Dave Cridland> We have, though, switched from using MUC in our app to using MIX.
[16:31:38] <Kev> I thought we were close.
[16:31:51] <Kev> I still do, although I might change my mind once I've seen your mail.
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[16:42:29] <Dave Cridland> I thought we were close until I saw Steve's reply...
[16:43:50] <Kev> I've not reviewed the spec in months. It might be approaching the point I need to, but it's grown somewhat in length beyond what I expected to be necessary and I'm struggling to find the multiple days I need!
[16:44:49] <Dave Cridland> Well, this is more or less where we are as well - hence we're reviewing by tripping over things as we come to them.
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[16:47:11] <Kev> I truly thought I was going to get to write some code today. But nope, now I need to catch up on this. *sigh*
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[23:36:42] *** daniel has joined the room
[23:37:53] *** ralphm has left the room
[23:38:02] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[23:46:58] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"