XSF logo XMPP Council - 2018-06-06

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  131. Dave Afternoon all.
  132. Kev Here.
  133. daniel hi
  134. jonasw .
  135. Dave 1) Roll Call [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_Call_(Hank_Mobley_album)]
  136. Dave Do we have Ge0rG and SamWhited ?
  137. SamWhited oops, yup, sorry
  138. jonasw (last messgae I have from georg is around :59, so I guess he’ll be right back)
  139. Dave OK, we'll hope Ge0rG joins us later.
  140. Dave 2) Isn't it nice that Tedd Sterr does the minutes?
  141. jonasw yes.
  142. jonasw I like his minutes :)
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  144. Dave It *is*, but he is starting to complain about this section.
  145. Dave 3) Proposed XMPP Extension: OMEMO Media sharing Title: OMEMO Media sharing Abstract: An informal way of sharing media files despite limitations in the OMEMO encryption URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/omemo-media-sharing.html
  146. Dave Anyone any opinions on this one?
  147. daniel +1. but i know it might be controversial so no hard feelings if other people are -1 on that :-)
  148. SamWhited I don't love the way Conversations shares encrypted files, but I'm not against standardizing it either. I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense to send the files in an encrypted ZIP archive or something though.
  149. SamWhited That way they can still be opened even if your client doesn't support them, and ZIP is well standardized (or some similar format if there are others that are widely supported)
  150. daniel note it's not exactly standarizing just 'informational'
  151. jonasw isn’t zip encryption horribly broken?
  152. SamWhited It might be
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  154. Dave That's good. So I'm concerned with inventing a new URI scheme, and also including a thumbnail in the same field. I get that this is Informational, but that usually describe "Best Practices", and this doesn't strike me as one.
  155. Kev I think making this Informational seems wrong (less wrong than standards-track, but still).
  156. Kev I could see the argument for historical (in its more recent meaning, rather than the formal one).
  157. Dave Kev, You have a view on this?
  158. Dave Oh. Lag.
  159. SamWhited ZIP specifically supports an AES mechanism that's apparently not broken (according to one random site on the internet), but really that was just an example because I knew Windows could open it. There may be some other standard format that's better.
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  161. Kev But I wouldn't even be fond of historical.
  162. Kev Sorry, I think muc.xmpp.org just froze for a few minutes.
  163. Dave Ah, that was weird.
  164. Dave OK. Votes, then?
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  166. SamWhited +0
  167. Kev -1
  168. Dave I'm -1 - I think if we had this now we'd be trying to deprecate it.
  169. Dave 4) Proposed XMPP Extension: Ephemeral Messages Title: Ephemeral Messages Abstract: This specification defines a protocol to send ephemeral messages over XMPP and synchronize timer value setting across devices. URL: https://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/ephemeral-messages.html
  170. Dave Let it flow, let it flow! Oh, let those stanzas flow...
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  172. Dave Ah, better. It seems frozen again, hence the song...
  173. Kev I'm not entirely sure I even understand this one.
  174. daniel as someone who has implement burner messages a couple of times I don’t think this is how it should be done at all
  175. Dave I understand it (well, mostly), but I don't see how one can do ephemeral messages in an open environment with any kind of reliability.
  176. Kev I think the argument on-list was that it was advisory.
  177. SamWhited Yah this didn't seem great to me. Sounds like we're all more or less in agreement here.
  178. Kev And you can do advisory ephemeral messages in an open environment.
  179. Dave Well, yes. But I have no idea how you communicate the advisory nature to your user.
  180. daniel but for something that is 'advisory' there is way too much weird stuff going on in the xep. if you want to achieve the advisory effect just add a <please-burn-after seconds="5"/> to the message and be done with it
  181. Kev Or deal with the UX of your messages all vanishing at different times from your local archive.
  182. Kev Lua is pegging the CPU.
  183. Dave Right - votes, anyone?
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  185. daniel that's how i usually implement it
  186. daniel and not everyone running xmpp is in an open enviroment
  187. Dave daniel, Well, that's certainly true.
  188. SamWhited -1
  189. Kev -1
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  191. Dave But yeah, NTP-over-XMPP is enough for me to -1 this one.
  192. daniel i offered a while ago to write down what i usually use but nobody really wanted me to
  193. daniel -1
  194. Kev I don't think this *is* NTP over XMPP.
  195. Kev It's trying to synchronise agreement on the age of messages before they expire, I *think*.
  196. Dave 4a) XEP-0045: Add a feature for the voice request flow #653 https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/653
  197. daniel but offer still stands if people find it useful
  198. daniel on list
  199. daniel ok never mind. +1
  200. daniel and meh lag
  201. Kev daniel: I'm almost inclined, although I have no interest in it myself at the moment, to say it'd be worthwhile to head off other people doing it in stranger ways.
  202. Dave So this wasn't on the agenda (sorry!), but I figured I'd raise it and if people want to vote on list I'll totally understand.
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  204. Kev I think the PR should really mention that although it's normatively should now, it wasn't in the past - but equally that voice requests are so rarely (if ever) implemented that we're probably not going to see much fallout from adding as-is.
  205. Kev That said, it probably is not hard to just add "this feature advertisement wasn't present in earlier versions of the specification, so servers might implement voice requests and not advertise it".
  206. Dave +1 on this PR. Looks straightforward, though if the caveat Kev mentions were added I'd be even happier.
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  208. SamWhited I don't love adding more things for a feature that is rarely used and slowly growing 0045 even more, but I'm not sure that I'd block either.
  209. Kev I'm also not sure what it achieves, other than being certain that a voice request is supported - as you have no way of knowing that it's not supported.
  210. Dave OK - votes?
  211. Ge0rG I'm very sorry, I just had somebody at the door
  212. Kev So I'm +0 on this. I don't see how it's actually helping anything, but won't block it.
  213. SamWhited I'm on list I suppose. I keep going back and forth between "it doesn't matter" and "we need to stop adding cruft"
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  215. daniel Ge0rG, pizza or the police?
  216. Dave OK (And welcome Ge0rG).
  217. Dave daniel, Could be both.
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  219. Ge0rG OMEMO Media sharing --> on-list Ephemeral Messages --> I've had a look at it and I don't like it, but I have no constructive ideas how to make ephemeral messages work better. on-list 4a #653 --> +1
  220. Dave 5) Outstanding Votes
  221. jonasw SamWhited: I don't see how a feature var is cruft, tbh. Without it, the existing feature spec is pretty useless.
  222. Dave Ge0rG, Thanks.
  223. Dave So I haven't updated the Spreadsheet of Doom, which I'll do after this, so I don't actually know what's outstanding.
  224. Ge0rG I've heard that I missed a vote on IM-NG and nobody noticed.
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  226. Dave But if you know you're outstanding, please... instand? ... yourself.
  227. Dave 6) AOB [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abom_language]
  228. Dave Anyone got AOB?
  229. Kev Not here.
  230. daniel nope
  231. SamWhited nope
  232. Ge0rG I think that AOB is not aob, but if we insist on it, we should backronym to tlh.
  233. Dave 7) Next Meeting
  234. Dave I think that'd be 2018-06-13 at 1500Z?
  235. Kev Sounds likely.
  236. Ge0rG I know I can't do next week.
  237. SamWhited WFM
  238. daniel > I think that'd be 2018-06-13 at 1500Z? 👍
  239. Dave Ge0rG, Noted.
  240. Dave 8) Ite, Meeting Est.
  241. Dave Thanks all.
  242. Kev Thanks all.
  243. Dave goes to update the spreadsheet.
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  246. jonasw Dave: thanks 😺
  247. Dave jonasw, No oustanding action I can see for the Editor, but the spreadsheet is updated.
  248. jonasw good thanks
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