XMPP Council - 2018-06-20


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  87. Kev Anything on the agenda for today?
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  142. jonasw tedd sterr secretly trying to take over council chair?
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  160. Kev I think it's fairly overt.
  161. Kev 'tis time.
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  164. Kev Who's here?
  165. SamWhited Oh hey, I appear to be here now and not silently dropped. *sigh* mcabber.
  166. daniel hi
  167. Kev We seem to not have a chair. So
  168. Kev 1) Roll call
  169. Kev Me, Daniel and Sam, I think.
  170. Kev 2) Isn't it nice that Tedd Sterr does the agenda?
  171. Kev 3) Advance XEP-0363: HTTP File Upload
  172. Kev I'm afraid that without the agenda in advance, I failed to look at this again, so onlist for me.
  173. SamWhited I'm also on list; I'm still nervous about he http headers stuff being too restrictive.
  174. daniel +1
  175. Kev 4) Deprecate XEP-0229: Stream Compression with LZW (and XEP-0138: Stream Compression)
  176. SamWhited +0 for both.
  177. Kev I'm missing context for this being on the agenda - does anyone remember the background?
  178. daniel didn’t we vote on that 6 month ago?
  179. Kev We have certainly had this come up before.
  180. daniel i think the background is 'insecurity'
  181. Kev Right, but I mean the background for why it appeared Right Now :)
  182. daniel not that i agree necessarily but that's probably why someone requested to deprecate
  183. Kev The last thing I can see was back in April when we decided not to advance it.
  184. Kev So I'm -0 on this right now.
  185. Kev daniel?
  186. daniel -0
  187. Kev 5) Any outstanding votes people want to make now?
  188. daniel in general i think that compression is nice to have. maybe with proper business rules (resetting the compression when ever the address changes or something) this can be made secure and useful
  189. daniel that way the 100+ stanzas a server sends you with the archive can be compressed
  190. Kev I think that's a "no" for this one.
  191. Kev 6) Date of next
  192. Kev SBTSBC?
  193. daniel wfm
  194. Kev Sam?
  195. SamWhited WFM
  196. Kev 7) AOB
  197. SamWhited I agree with daniel about compression FWIW. I'm not against getting rid of it, but it also helped us massively at HipChat.
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  199. Kev Clearly some sort of compression is desirable, as XMPP is used on poor links sometimes, and XML is heavily compressible.
  200. daniel Yes we should resurrect this soon ish
  201. Kev Whether that's these two XEPs, or EXI or whatever, I don't know, but I'm not sure deprecating at the moment is the Right Thing.
  202. Kev I think that's "No AOB" unless someone shouts imminently.
  203. SamWhited Yah, I agree.
  204. daniel Exi doesn't really seem in usable state
  205. Kev So, thanks all, we're done.
  206. Kev (Fini)
  207. Kev daniel: EXI itself, or the XEP?
  208. SamWhited Both
  209. daniel And compression with proper secure business rules is probably easier to do
  210. daniel Both
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  212. daniel i like the idea of exi
  213. daniel but it doesn't seem achievable any time soon
  214. Kev EXI is a bit like 138 with preshared dictionaries, in effect, which is something that's been pondered about before.
  215. Kev (I use "a bit like" somewhat loosely here)
  216. SamWhited Except it also is extremely specialized (to XML) and doesn't have implementations anywhere. Meanwhile every platform, language, and even a lot of hardware have LZ4 and gzip implementations.
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  218. daniel I mean the promise of exi is that you parse that directly instead of converting that to an XML stream first
  219. daniel Thus saving CPU time
  220. SamWhited At HipChat we actually saved CPU time from using zlib or whatever it was because encryption overhead is a lot higher and it reduced the number of packets that needed to be encrypted.
  221. SamWhited Since most people are using TLS these days (I hope), that seems like it would be pretty common.
  222. daniel Right. Yeah no argument here that gzip is beneficial for multiple reasons compared to plain
  223. daniel So depreciating stream compression will send the wrong signal I'm afraid. But someone should rework the xep and bump the NS
  224. Kev daniel: Except you'll end up converting to XML anyway, because good luck with your server design that is carrying two stream formats through it without an abstraction that looks a lot like a DOM.
  225. daniel To enforce the rules
  226. Kev That was 'except' in reply to "I mean the promise...".
  227. daniel Kev: yeah that's the problem I was talking about when I said it's not really usable right now
  228. daniel Both from the xep and the exi side
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