XMPP Council - 2018-08-08


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  231. Ge0rG Good morning. I'm here but will be probably interrupted in the middle of things.
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  233. Ge0rG -1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/690 because the change makes the schema inconsistent with the text. We should fix that by making 'id' mandatory in both places, but I really don't want to version-bump over this.
  234. Ge0rG I'd be okay to changing it to a MUST without a version bump, because the protocol doesn't make sense otherwise.
  235. Kev It's time.
  236. Kev 1) Rolls
  237. Kev Here
  238. Ge0rG Still here. For now.
  239. Kev Dave sent apologies.
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  241. Kev daniel, SamWhited.
  242. SamWhited here, sorry
  243. Ge0rG SamWhited: no need to be sorry for being here
  244. daniel Hi
  245. SamWhited on phone, got stuck in traffic. May be slow to respond.
  246. Kev 2) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/693
  247. Kev I didn't get a chance to review before the meeting, will onlist (for this and the following two)
  248. SamWhited +1
  249. Ge0rG I only just realized the three PRs 15mins ago
  250. Ge0rG onlist
  251. daniel On last
  252. daniel *List
  253. SamWhited ahh, switching between things is now very painful on Android 9
  254. Kev 3) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/692
  255. Kev OL again.
  256. SamWhited OL
  257. Ge0rG OL as well, but with my lacking knowledge of PubSub I'll probably bring this up next meeting with further questions
  258. Kev daniel?
  259. daniel On list
  260. Kev 4) https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/690
  261. Kev Ol
  262. daniel On list
  263. Ge0rG -1 as written above, right before the meeting start
  264. Ge0rG For Tedd: > -1 to https://github.com/xsf/xeps/pull/690 because the change makes the schema inconsistent with the text. We should fix that by making 'id' mandatory in both places, but I really don't want to version-bump over this. > I'd be okay to changing it to a MUST without a version bump, because the protocol doesn't make sense otherwise.
  265. Ge0rG I'd like to hear what other Council members think of making the 'id' a MUST
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  267. Ge0rG ...and doing so without a bump.
  268. SamWhited OL
  269. Ge0rG and *if* we bump 0184, I'd also add multi-ACKs
  270. daniel A version or a name space bump?
  271. daniel What's the problem with version bumps
  272. Ge0rG daniel: is there a difference between version and namespace bumps?
  273. Kev Yes.
  274. Ge0rG the version is encoded in the namespace, isn't it?
  275. Kev Every change to the XEP has a version bump, most don't touch the namespace.
  276. daniel But you mean NS bump then
  277. daniel Yeah I wouldn't want to bump the ns
  278. Ge0rG I'm indifferent to bumping the version of the XEP document.
  279. Ge0rG That's not what causes interop to break ;)
  280. peter IIRC we didn't want to assume that everyone would want to do tracking, but I'd be OK with saying that if you send a <received/> element you MUST include an 'id' attribute.
  281. Kev It's fairly meaningless otherwise, or I'm being dense. 50:50.
  282. Link Mauve This is already implied by <request/> being optional in a message, btw.
  283. Ge0rG the alternative would be something like "a receipt without an 'id' is an acknowledge for all messages received so far OMG RACE CONDITIONS!!!"
  284. Link Mauve In this PR I did interpret SHOULD as MUST, because it doesn’t make any sense otherwise. I can change it to the MUST it should always have been, in a future version.
  285. peter And I don't see a need for a namespace bump - an entity who gets a <received/> back might now get more information, which is nice but AFAICS doesn't break anything in the field.
  286. Kev I suppose you could build a synchronous system using receipts without ids.
  287. Kev peter: The argument for the bump would be that previously you'd be compliant without the id, but now you wouldn't be.
  288. Kev I don't think the disruption is warranted here, but I think a note to the effect that you might receive one without because of previous versions would be sane.
  289. peter Sure.
  290. peter nods
  291. Link Mauve Ack, I’ll update the PR with such a note.
  292. Kev Link Mauve: Ta muchly.
  293. Ge0rG Link Mauve: 👍
  294. SamWhited If it's just about compliance then that seems fine, but I think a NS bump might be necessary because you couldn't rely on their being IDs despite it being a MUST, no?
  295. Kev SamWhited: That's what the note would alert you to.
  296. Ge0rG has to go off
  297. SamWhited oh right; sorry, need to catch up.
  298. Kev You can't really do anything useful with a receipt without an id anyway, even now.
  299. Kev Unless you're really building a synchronous system that can't have multiple messages in flight before an ack.
  300. Kev But I still need to OL to check it properly.
  301. Kev 5) Date of next
  302. Kev SBTSBC?
  303. SamWhited WFM
  304. Kev 6) AOB?
  305. daniel Should work for me. That's the day I'm coming back from vacation. But my plane is scheduled to land a few hours before the meeting
  306. daniel None from me
  307. SamWhited I apologize for being behind (on last week still too); I will try to catch up. Probably today, at the latest before Friday.
  308. Kev Right, I think we're done then. Thanks all :)
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  310. peter BTW if you ever think that my participation is needed (as XEP author), feel free to poke me via email or at-mention me at GitHub.
  311. Kev Thanks Peter.
  312. peter I'm working on very different things these days (e.g., payments), but I'm always happy to help where needed.
  313. jonasw peter, while I have you here, have you received my email to trademark@?
  314. Dave has left
  315. peter I don't recall seeing it.
  316. jonasw mmm
  317. peter Those messages redirect to board@ and maybe it's in a queue.
  318. jonasw it’s from 2018-07-29
  319. Kev board@ is members-only, drop everything else, IIRC.
  320. jonasw that would be unfortunate if trademark@ redirects there.
  321. peter Nope, we have an admin queue for that list.
  322. peter I clear it out every week or so.
  323. Kev So if trademark@ is redirecting there I suspect it's being less helpful than it might be.
  324. Kev Ah, ok.
  325. Kev I remember changing stuff for Laura a few years ago, but I guess we changed it back.
  326. peter jonasw: please resend
  327. peter I think I deleted it in error
  328. jonasw did just now, peter
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  347. peter jonasw: received and approved (sorry about the delay, I was in a meeting)
  348. jonasw thank you :)
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