Ge0rGCurrently, the examples in the XEP are missing the feature, right?
jonas’are you talking about #715 or #716?
SamWhited-1; I agree that it's weird to always include it even though it's obvious that it's supported, but I don't see the need to modify a final XEP and add optional behavior. My recommendation to implementations is to just follow the standard as its written, weird quirk and all, and if you need to check disco support make this assumption yourself.
jonas’that’s the most sensible word I heard about that so far, SamWhited :-)
SamWhitedI apologize for not replying to the list about this; I meant to do so earlier.
Ge0rGWill accepting 715 make the examples consistent with the standard and include the feature everywhere?
jonas’Ge0rG, the former, yes. the latter, haven’t checked.
Ge0rG...and increase the number of examples where it's included?
jonas’if it is councils wish that the feature shall be in every disco#info/disco#items example in that XEP, I can do that upon merge.
KevI need to catch up, but I'm not keen on making any non-vital changes to 30.
KevOr any substantial non-vital changes.
SamWhitedIndeed; even in the state we're in today where everything ignores this, it's probably not going to break anything as is.
Ge0rGI'm not sure we need to have it in all examples of all XEPs, I'd rather add a note to 0030 that the feature might not be present in *examples* but needs to be implemented
SamWhitedA little non-normative note seems reasonable.
Ge0rGYes, and it wouldn't change the normative text.
SamWhitedAlthough I don't think it's necessary either, but that would probably be for the next council to decide.
Ge0rGSo it's an editorial change.
Ge0rGI don't see the need to hunt all XEPs for compliance
SamWhitedThat's true, I'd be happy for the editors to just make that change
KevSounds like time to move along, to me?
Kev9) Date of next
jonas’Ge0rG, SamWhited, please propose wording.
Ge0rGjonas’: can you remind me tomorrow around noon?
jonas’Ge0rG, not really
pep./send_delayed "tomorrow around noon" poke Ge0rG
Kev10) Yay, double-figures. AOB?
SamWhited"Note that this may be omitted in examples in the XEP series"
Ge0rGKev: did we have any expired votes to recast?
Ge0rGOpen votes from last week?
Is the only open one from last week, I think.
Ge0rGSamWhited: s/this/the disco#info feature /
jonas’I think the expired stuff was already covered
Kev(And which I need to deal with)
KevThe expired stuff is what Tedd put on the agenda, I believe. I've not checked the SoD to verify.
Ge0rGI have started working on the Moved XEP but it turned out to be a huge mess, implementation wise.
Ge0rGThere's a rendered version of a preliminary proposal on my private server, but nothing official yet. Will submit it to the next council
Ge0rGThe only reasonable way I see is to use messages instead of presence, but I'm not clear yet whether we need messages from the old account or from both
KevMoved is a bit of a nightmare if you want to do anything automatically because you need your server to also do things automatically (like link MAM archives) and all sorts of horrors follow from entities causing your archive to be rewritten.
KevI'm hearing a silence of 'no'.
KevSo, thanks all.
Ge0rGKev: we can solve Moved with a permanent roster annotation
Ge0rGIs there precedent for roster annotations?
KevGe0rG: I find your ideas intruiging and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
KevGe0rG: I find your ideas intriguing and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
jonas’and it’s a horrible precendent, IMO.
Ge0rGKev: you can rent my services at only 180€/hr... 😢
Ge0rGYes, MIX is a mess.
Ge0rGBut a Moved message will only be retained for so long, if at all.
jonas’(I’m not saying the concept of roster annotations is a horrible precedent, but that particular implementation is)
Ge0rGIf you have MAM=contacts, and the old JID is removed, will your server purge the Moved message?
jonas’would be terrible if it did
jonas’both for how MAM works, and for users
Ge0rGDid I mention that implementing Moved on top of real life XMPP is a mess mm
Ge0rGDid I mention that implementing Moved on top of real life XMPP is a mess?
KevFWIW, roster annotations have been a thing we've been discussing for well over a decade.
KevMIX is just the first time we had a concrete use for them.
Ge0rGKev: but it never happened?
Ge0rGMoved would be a concrete use case.
jonas’IMO, the easierst for both clients and servers would be a namespaced element within the roster <item/>
Ge0rGA PEP tombstone would be another possibility, but less flexible
jonas’(regarding the general concept of roster annotation?)
Ge0rGjonas’: that would be a roster annotation, right?
jonas’(regarding the general concept of roster annotations)
jonas’Ge0rG, yes, that’s my point (just clarifying; I understand you’re probably behind latency)
Ge0rGjonas’: and I'm approaching the next coverage hole. Also typing on a touch screen
Ge0rGThanks. Looks like I survived the meeting well enough at least
jonas’also, xsf@ maybe.
Ge0rGIf implementing roster annotations takes as long as persistent PEP, I'm out.