Tuesday, February 25, 2014
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XEP Editor Team — logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/editor/

[09:21:10] *** Lloyd has joined the room
[10:02:55] *** Lloyd shows as "online"
[10:08:31] *** Lloyd shows as "online"
[15:35:37] *** winfried has joined the room
[15:37:01] *** m&m has joined the room
[15:44:49] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[15:44:54] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[15:57:56] <winfried> editor meeting in 5 minutes, right?
[15:58:00] <m&m> correct
[15:58:18] <winfried> I will give a shout in the xsf muc... ;-)
[15:58:26] <m&m> graze (-:
[15:58:49] <Lloyd> yep, although my invite says its in council@muc.xmpp.org.
[15:59:23] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:59:55] *** Dave Cridland has joined the room
[16:00:07] *Dave Cridland lurks
[16:00:24] *winfried was wondering what that sound was...
[16:00:26] *** Steffen Larsen has joined the room
[16:00:29] *m&m goes to cobble together today's agenda from the emails
[16:00:34] <Steffen Larsen> Hi Guys!
[16:00:45] <winfried> hi!
[16:00:48] <Lloyd> Hello
[16:00:49] <Steffen Larsen> almost everybody here?
[16:01:21] <Lloyd> Ash should be along in a moment, his daughter is a little unwell at the moment
[16:01:28] <m&m> yuck
[16:01:54] *** Kev has joined the room
[16:01:55] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:01:57] <Steffen Larsen> oohh I know the problem
[16:02:06] <Steffen Larsen> all of the family sick at the moment
[16:02:34] <winfried> Yeah, on holiday with sick kids right now...
[16:02:42] <Dave Cridland> My kids aren't sick.
[16:02:55] <Steffen Larsen> congrats Dave!
[16:02:57] <Steffen Larsen> :-)
[16:03:08] <winfried> Dave Cridland should leave the muc right now...
[16:03:24] <winfried> Shouldn's Joachim be here?
[16:03:32] <stpeter> heh, another advantage of text chat
[16:03:37] <winfried> LOL
[16:04:02] *** Ash has joined the room
[16:04:12] <m&m> ok, that looks like everyone
[16:04:31] *Lloyd realises he can take his headset off
[16:04:38] <Steffen Larsen> :-)
[16:04:45] <Dave Cridland> Lloyd, Leave it on, everyone will leave you alone.
[16:04:47] <Ash> Hi All.
[16:04:49] <m&m> heh
[16:04:54] <m&m> ok, let's get started
[16:04:59] <m&m> some of us are time-constrained
[16:05:01] *Dave Cridland puts his on to get the kids to be quiet.
[16:05:33] <m&m> 1) "What I Do" by Peter Saint-Andre
[16:05:38] <winfried> has everybody read the xep-readme?
[16:05:45] <m&m> did all of the editors read http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-README.html ?
[16:05:46] <Steffen Larsen> yes. I have
[16:05:50] <stpeter> first of all, I'd like to thank you all for volunteering to help!
[16:05:51] <winfried> I have
[16:05:52] <Ash> Affirmative
[16:05:56] <Steffen Larsen> svn is a bit outdated maybe
[16:05:59] <Steffen Larsen> ;-)
[16:06:05] <Steffen Larsen> otherwise fine
[16:06:25] <stpeter> right
[16:06:35] <m&m> ok, some updates are necessary
[16:06:56] <stpeter> ack
[16:06:58] <winfried> peter: do you have any additions to the readme?
[16:07:10] <winfried> things we need to know right now?
[16:07:29] <Steffen Larsen> I assume that the XEP for svn is in git? ;-)
[16:07:31] <stpeter> the "Counting Council Votes" is outdated
[16:08:03] <winfried> the council posts the votes to the standards list, right?
[16:08:11] <stpeter> I'll fix up some details in the README this week
[16:08:29] <stpeter> the radar page is no longer used
[16:08:40] <Steffen Larsen> cool
[16:08:51] <stpeter> etc.
[16:08:55] <stpeter> but the basics are correct
[16:09:16] <Steffen Larsen> stpeter:how often do the editor do work? I mean, maybe we should meet 2 a month or so to distribute work
[16:09:44] <winfried> stpeter: obvious changes to the readme can be made us too...
[16:09:55] <Steffen Larsen> yes for sure
[16:10:04] <stpeter> Steffen Larsen: in general there might be editorial tasks before or after each Council meeting
[16:10:16] <stpeter> e.g., publishing incoming proto-XEPs
[16:10:16] <Steffen Larsen> stpeter: ok
[16:10:29] <stpeter> issuing Last Calls, counting votes, etc. after meetings
[16:10:33] <stpeter> that kind of thing
[16:10:34] <Steffen Larsen> stupid question: how often are there council meetings?
[16:10:38] <stpeter> once a week
[16:10:39] <stpeter> usually
[16:10:42] <winfried> I have made a list of 'events' we should respond to, it is quite easy:
[16:10:42] <Ash> We could do with some kind of ticket/issue tracker system so people can pick up stuff that needs to be done rather then work having to be divvied out
[16:10:42] <Dave Cridland> Steffen Larsen, Once per week 1600 Wed.
[16:10:43] <Steffen Larsen> :-) ok
[16:10:44] <stpeter> sometimes there's no meeting
[16:10:52] <stpeter> Ash: sure
[16:11:02] <Steffen Larsen> yes
[16:11:06] <Steffen Larsen> we had jira once
[16:11:07] <stpeter> Ash: we used Jira in the past but I'm open to anything else you guys like
[16:11:08] <winfried> we should respond to: incoming xeps in editor@..
[16:11:13] <Steffen Larsen> but it was never actively used
[16:11:16] <stpeter> winfried: yes
[16:11:17] <winfried> to: council decisions
[16:11:17] <Steffen Larsen> besides me and some others
[16:11:40] <stpeter> editor@ is currently just an alias that sends stuff to me
[16:11:40] <winfried> and we should monitor experimental xeps not being updated for 12 month
[16:11:40] <m&m> I'd rather re-use infrastructure that's available
[16:11:49] <stpeter> winfried: correct
[16:11:52] <Steffen Larsen> I like a ticket system.. especially when there is more than one person
[16:11:58] <stpeter> Steffen Larsen: WFM
[16:11:58] <m&m> rather than spin up something new
[16:11:59] <Steffen Larsen> m&m: +1
[16:12:02] <Ash> Would be great if emails to editor@ could be fed straight into the ticketing too
[16:12:09] <Dave Cridland> As an alternative, a rota would probably work fine.
[16:12:11] <stpeter> Ash: sure thing
[16:12:15] <stpeter> rota?
[16:12:26] <Dave Cridland> That is, have one duty editor per week.
[16:12:31] <stpeter> ah
[16:12:34] <winfried> or should we make editor@ a mailinglist?
[16:12:46] <stpeter> winfried: possible, yes
[16:12:48] <winfried> can we coordinate to ourselves too ;-)
[16:12:51] <Steffen Larsen> hmm no I think a muc and jira is perfect
[16:13:01] <m&m> I think making editor@ a mailing list is reasonable
[16:13:05] <Steffen Larsen> emails are not a ticket system. :-)
[16:13:08] <m&m> essentially write-only
[16:13:46] <stpeter> well, editor@ does receive inbound messages from authors, so making it a mailing list would enable everyone to know what's incoming
[16:13:51] <winfried> Is there already a ticketing system at the xsf?
[16:14:08] <m&m> as long as the traffic on editor@ is relatively low (which I assume it is), I think we can live with the manual conversion to a ticket
[16:14:11] <Steffen Larsen> I only know of jira
[16:14:13] <stpeter> winfried: we sort-of have Jira
[16:14:16] <Ash> \me has been working on deploying a ticketing system for the past few months so has ticketing on the brain!
[16:14:24] <m&m> (-:
[16:14:28] <stpeter> m&m: yes, I think that would be fine
[16:14:52] <Ash> Jira is great as it's hosted and free and even better if it's already set up
[16:15:02] *** stpeter shows as "dnd" and his status message is "XSF Editor meeting"
[16:15:05] <Steffen Larsen> how many are we (editors)?
[16:15:14] <Steffen Larsen> yes
[16:15:21] <Lloyd> 8 with joachim?
[16:15:22] <stpeter> Steffen Larsen: 6 or 7, I think
[16:15:25] <m&m> 6 not including stpeter
[16:15:29] <Steffen Larsen> ok
[16:15:30] <m&m> 7 if we include stpeter
[16:15:42] <Lloyd> - Dave, course :)
[16:15:52] <Steffen Larsen> stpeter: we might use you as a shadow in the start.. to ask questions etc.
[16:16:02] <Steffen Larsen> :-)
[16:16:04] <Dave Cridland> Right, there's 8 people here, but Kev, stpeter and I aren't actually editors.
[16:16:09] <stpeter> Steffen Larsen: yes, of course!
[16:16:20] <Dave Cridland> However you're missing Joachim.
[16:16:24] <m&m> hrm … we're missing someone
[16:16:27] <Steffen Larsen> stpeter: we dont wanna mess things up.. just want to help
[16:16:30] <m&m> was Joachim on the list?
[16:16:34] <Steffen Larsen> to sec
[16:16:41] <m&m> I pulled it from Board and Council logs
[16:17:06] <winfried> Joachim raised his hand in Brussels, but was not on the list approved by the board
[16:17:27] <Steffen Larsen> hhmm maybe I should write and ask him
[16:17:29] <winfried> (And he raised his hand again on the members list)
[16:17:30] <m&m> the other name on the list was Stefan Strigler
[16:17:41] <winfried> Ah, indeed, Stefan
[16:17:43] <Steffen Larsen> yes. stefan should be here
[16:17:48] <Steffen Larsen> I'll write him now
[16:17:50] <stpeter> regarding access, IMHO each member of the editor team should have git privileges and an account on athena to run the scripts (or, you guys can figure out some subset of people)
[16:18:12] <m&m> Steffen Larsen: thanks. He should have been part of the email chain
[16:18:13] <Dave Cridland> Right, yes. Not Joachim, but Steffan.
[16:18:27] <m&m> I think granting everyone is fine
[16:18:28] <winfried> Just pinged Steve
[16:18:32] <Steffen Larsen> me too!
[16:18:34] <Steffen Larsen> :-9
[16:18:47] <winfried> LOL
[16:18:52] <Steffen Larsen> prob. in erlang world..
[16:18:58] <Steffen Larsen> he is coming in now
[16:19:05] <winfried> concurrent processes ;-)
[16:19:19] <Steffen Larsen> ha ha
[16:19:20] <Steffen Larsen> yes
[16:19:23] <Dave Cridland> winfried, Really slow message passing, though.
[16:19:33] <m&m> heh
[16:19:42] <Steffen Larsen> :-)
[16:20:05] *** zeank@jwchat.org has joined the room
[16:20:14] <Steffen Larsen> Hi Steve!
[16:20:16] <zeank@jwchat.org> hey, hi! :)
[16:20:17] <Steffen Larsen> :-)
[16:20:19] <winfried> Welcome!
[16:20:19] <stpeter> so what action items do we have?
[16:20:23] <zeank@jwchat.org> sorry, sorry, sorry
[16:20:30] <m&m> from what I've gathered so far ...
[16:20:42] <winfried> transfering editor@.. to a mailinglist
[16:20:45] <m&m> #1: setup a ticketing system
[16:20:53] <Steffen Larsen> #git access
[16:21:08] <m&m> #2: transfer editor@ to a mailing list
[16:21:11] <Ash> # update xep-README
[16:21:47] <zeank@jwchat.org> couldn't we just use github to handle most of it?
[16:21:52] <m&m> no
[16:21:56] <Lloyd> zeank: Yes!
[16:22:00] <Lloyd> I agree
[16:22:01] <m&m> github is not canonical
[16:22:11] <stpeter> BTW we'll need list admins for editor@ to approve legitimate incoming messages
[16:22:35] <stpeter> (and we plan to deploy greylisting on atlas soon to avoid an overload of spam)
[16:23:03] <winfried> ok, editor gets 99,5% spam?
[16:23:12] <stpeter> probably
[16:23:15] <Steffen Larsen> auch
[16:23:18] <winfried> :-(
[16:23:23] <m&m> such is life
[16:23:27] <stpeter> I have it redirect to my gmail.com address so all the spam magically goes away
[16:23:29] <Dave Cridland> Technically, ProtoXEP submissions MUST have a specific subject line.
[16:23:31] <stpeter> but greylisting should help
[16:23:36] <stpeter> Dave Cridland: true
[16:23:43] <stpeter> I'll let the list admins work out methods :-)
[16:23:53] <winfried> LOL...!
[16:23:56] *Dave Cridland is re-reading XEP-0001 and referenced docs.
[16:23:59] <Steffen Larsen> thanks peter :-)
[16:24:26] <winfried> On access:
[16:24:44] <winfried> to do the job we need shell access to ...
[16:25:04] <m&m> right
[16:25:15] <winfried> where is also a git repository that is used to publish... (right?)
[16:25:35] <Steffen Larsen> I think I have access alraedy
[16:25:35] <m&m> a couple of us might already have shell access (or had it in the past)
[16:25:37] <Steffen Larsen> already
[16:25:56] <Steffen Larsen> form way back.. doing some jingle stuff in 2007/8
[16:25:59] <m&m> I had shell access at one point, but I think those ssh keys were lost
[16:26:08] <winfried> I have no shell access...
[16:26:15] <Steffen Larsen> prob. me neither
[16:26:18] <winfried> who can coordinate that?
[16:26:28] <Steffen Larsen> how will do this? tobi?
[16:26:54] <stpeter> tobi, kev, and I have shell access to that machine
[16:26:55] <m&m> anyone from the i-team should be able to do it, no?
[16:27:02] <stpeter> and others, likely
[16:27:45] <m&m> I can harass —erm — follow up with one of those three
[16:27:57] <stpeter> editor@ list set up
[16:28:06] <m&m> gracias
[16:28:17] <winfried> thanks, hit me with the spam :-P
[16:28:25] <Ash> :)
[16:28:42] <m&m> I'm already moderator for other lists, what's one more? (-:
[16:29:12] <stpeter> anyone else want to be a moderator?
[16:29:14] <m&m> I assume for shell access that the box admins will need SSH keys
[16:29:19] <winfried> shall we send pgp-signed ssh-keys to the editor list?
[16:29:21] <Steffen Larsen> ok. who is gathering the list and doing action on our bullit points?
[16:29:21] <stpeter> m&m yes please
[16:29:26] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, Stating the obvious, it's open to non-subscriber posts, right?
[16:29:27] <stpeter> winfried: sure
[16:29:30] <Steffen Larsen> yes
[16:29:39] <stpeter> Dave Cridland: it will be once I configure it correctly
[16:30:08] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, Just seemed like something worth double-checking. :-)
[16:30:23] <stpeter> yep
[16:30:28] <stpeter> T-2 minutes, right?
[16:30:30] *m&m pesters Tobias about shell access
[16:30:31] <stpeter> anything else?
[16:30:32] <m&m> yes
[16:30:47] <winfried> - how to keep git tidy
[16:31:03] <winfried> - how to divide labour :-)
[16:31:05] <m&m> we should setup another meeting to finish up inauguration
[16:31:12] <Steffen Larsen> so are we using branch strategy or just pure master?
[16:31:16] <Steffen Larsen> or git flow?
[16:31:23] <zeank@jwchat.org> ugh
[16:31:30] <winfried> ugh what?
[16:31:32] <m&m> see, we have more to do than just divvy out work (-:
[16:31:37] <stpeter> which email address is right for Lloyd?
[16:31:41] <zeank@jwchat.org> git flow for this sounds a bit like overhead ;)
[16:31:52] <stpeter> evilprofessor?
[16:31:58] <Lloyd> stpeter lloyd@evilprofessor.co.uk please
[16:32:00] <Steffen Larsen> nah.. well it depends on the scenario
[16:32:23] <stpeter> ok I've added a bunch of you to the editor@ list
[16:32:30] <winfried> great!
[16:32:31] <m&m> stpeter: thanks
[16:32:33] <zeank@jwchat.org> uhm, added myself already ;)
[16:32:42] <stpeter> 7 members, I must be missing someone
[16:32:43] <m&m> now, could the editor team be made admins for this room, please (-:
[16:32:53] <m&m> 7 sounds right
[16:32:53] <stpeter> heh yes
[16:32:58] <Steffen Larsen> yes please
[16:33:00] <Steffen Larsen> :-)
[16:33:11] *** psa has joined the room
[16:33:19] <m&m> ok, I need to get going … how about we have a follow up meeting
[16:33:23] <Steffen Larsen> will we recevie an email about the editor list?
[16:33:25] <zeank@jwchat.org> can't you post the list of email addresses subscribed?
[16:33:28] <m&m> I cannot meet next week
[16:33:42] <Steffen Larsen> next week I am on ski
[16:33:51] <Steffen Larsen> so maybe next week again?
[16:34:12] <Steffen Larsen> some of you guys will prob. meet in london, right?
[16:34:15] <m&m> WFM, unless we have a quorum in London
[16:34:16] <m&m> (-:
[16:34:21] <m&m> right
[16:34:30] <psa> hmm, how do I change affiliations in Adium?
[16:34:33] <winfried> m&m anything that stops us from getting started?
[16:34:41] <psa> winfried: I don't think so
[16:35:02] <m&m> winfried: shell access
[16:35:04] <winfried> just keep each other informed..
[16:35:07] <winfried> ;-)
[16:35:10] <winfried> right!
[16:35:33] <Steffen Larsen> yes please keep me in the loop
[16:35:39] <Ash> We can always continue the discussion on the mailing list
[16:35:39] <Dave Cridland> winfried, Well, git and shell.
[16:35:40] <Steffen Larsen> when I am on vacation next week
[16:35:51] <Ash> In slower time
[16:36:28] *m&m is pestering tobias about shell/git access now
[16:36:52] <winfried> git: we decided on branching strategy not?
[16:37:08] <zeank@jwchat.org> winfried: did we? which one? where? when?
[16:37:26] <Dave Cridland> I'd suggest pure master unless there's a reason to go branching.
[16:37:32] <zeank@jwchat.org> (y)
[16:37:35] <stpeter> +1
[16:37:37] <winfried> well: I counted your 'ugh' as a vote for branching...
[16:37:38] <winfried> ah
[16:37:38] <m&m> +1
[16:37:39] <winfried> ok
[16:37:50] <m&m> master + email-based MINE-ing
[16:37:53] <Steffen Larsen> ash: creepy with the email!
[16:38:11] <stpeter> and the first spam message arrives!
[16:38:15] <stpeter> that didn't take long
[16:38:16] <Steffen Larsen> master is fine if work is that little
[16:38:23] <Ash> Hehe. Yeah. Great minds, eh!
[16:38:33] <Steffen Larsen> Ash: :-)
[16:38:36] <stpeter> BTW, this room is archived, as is the editor@ list
[16:38:46] <Steffen Larsen> stpeter: super!
[16:38:50] <winfried> +1
[16:39:05] *** Tobias has joined the room
[16:39:06] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[16:39:29] *** simon has joined the room
[16:39:37] <zeank@jwchat.org> for everything else there is git rebase ;)
[16:39:37] <m&m> Steffen Larsen: there's not usually much to do with the XEPs themselves
[16:39:59] <zeank@jwchat.org> uhm no I mean git push -f :D
[16:40:20] <m&m> ok
[16:40:40] <m&m> so, let's plan to meet back here in exactly two weeks
[16:40:41] <Dave Cridland> BTW, thanks to all of you for volunteering.
[16:40:46] <stpeter> m&m WGM
[16:40:50] <stpeter> WFM even
[16:40:52] <Steffen Larsen> two weeks! great!
[16:40:58] <zeank@jwchat.org> ok
[16:41:01] <m&m> 2014-02-11T16:00Z
[16:41:04] <Steffen Larsen> 11. March?
[16:41:06] <Steffen Larsen> yes
[16:41:11] <stpeter> we can create a calendar for the editor team, too
[16:41:12] <m&m> yes (-:
[16:41:17] <Steffen Larsen> 17:00 CET?
[16:41:21] <Tobias> Kev, what do people need to access xsf git? isn't that handled by gitosis or so?
[16:41:25] <Dave Cridland> m&m, 2014-03-11T16:00Z then
[16:41:30] <winfried> OK, will take some planning for me.. but probably I can make it...
[16:41:36] <m&m> oh, duh
[16:41:39] <Dave Cridland> Tobias, Yeah, gitosis IIRC.
[16:41:46] <m&m> yes 2014-03-11T16:00:00Z
[16:41:55] <stpeter> I need to step out for a few minutes, bbiab
[16:42:12] <Steffen Larsen> in my calendar
[16:42:28] <Steffen Larsen> are we done or more on the agenda?
[16:42:28] <stpeter> also I think a third list admin would be helpful to cut down on the admin duties (at least until we get greylisting deployed)
[16:42:39] <stpeter> bbiab
[16:42:56] <m&m> for now, I think we're done
[16:43:05] <m&m> I'll try to gather minutes on this meeting, but we have the logs
[16:43:15] <Steffen Larsen> m&m: perfect!
[16:43:18] *** simon has left the room
[16:43:26] <m&m> and I'll send it through editor@xmpp.org for now, fwd to standards@xmpp.org
[16:43:26] <zeank@jwchat.org> stpeter: you can add me as well
[16:43:44] <m&m> I take it y'all are ok with me assuming the Chair role, yes? (-:
[16:43:59] <m&m> if someone else wants it, speak up!
[16:43:59] <Ash> Fine by me :)
[16:44:04] <Steffen Larsen> +1
[16:44:16] <Steffen Larsen> I am just a simple working man. :-)
[16:44:19] <stpeter> zeank@jwchat.org: thanks
[16:44:20] <winfried> its ok, but are you fine with it, m&m?
[16:44:48] <m&m> winfried: I'm fine with it … for now (-:
[16:44:58] <m&m> I think it'll work out just fine
[16:45:16] <Steffen Larsen> steve: thanks for the email :)
[16:46:09] <stpeter> zeank: do you have a preferred email address for such things?
[16:46:09] <winfried> Everybody got the test mail on the editor list?
[16:46:18] <Lloyd> (y)
[16:46:18] <m&m> I got it
[16:46:23] <Steffen Larsen> ok guys. I am out of here. Have to cook some food for the family!
[16:46:23] <stpeter> winfried: I think I left Stefan off the list, let me check
[16:46:23] <Ash> Yup
[16:46:39] <Steffen Larsen> got it!
[16:46:46] <stpeter> nope, n/m
[16:47:04] <zeank@jwchat.org> stpeter: zeank@jwchat.org is fine
[16:47:21] <zeank@jwchat.org> or can it be the same I registered with?
[16:47:27] <zeank@jwchat.org> then please use stefan.strigler@gmail.com
[16:47:30] <stpeter> yep
[16:47:33] <stpeter> used @gmail
[16:48:00] <stpeter> anyway, bbiaf
[16:48:21] <zeank@jwchat.org> perf
[16:48:29] <Ash> Excellent
[16:48:56] *stpeter wanders off
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[16:49:33] *winfried smells nice food and hears diner sounds
[16:49:46] <zeank@jwchat.org> winfried: enjoy ;)
[16:49:46] *** winfried shows as "xa" and his status message is "Food, need some food! ;-)"
[16:50:15] <Kev> "
I have it redirect to my gmail.com address so all the spam magically goes away stpeter @ 16:21"
[16:50:21] <Kev> Yes, that's what gets atlas blacklisted :)
[16:50:31] *** simon has joined the room
[16:50:31] <zeank@jwchat.org> done with work for today as well, so bye bye ;)
[16:50:42] <winfried> cu!
[16:50:45] *** simon has left the room
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[16:51:23] *Ash Going to go and help with dinner and my cuddle my poorly little girl!
[16:52:00] <m&m> thanks everyone
[16:52:13] <m&m> I'll track down the git/ssh access minutea
[16:52:16] <Kev> "Kev, what do people need to access xsf git? isn't that handled by gitosis or so? Tobias @ 16:38"
Send me their keys.
[16:52:16] <Ash> :)
[16:52:32] <m&m> sorry, missed it!
[16:55:28] *** psa shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:00:37] *** psa shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[17:07:15] <Kev> m&m: This is just for access to the Git repo?
[17:07:28] <Dave Cridland> Kev, Shell as well.
[17:07:35] <Kev> Shell to do what?
[17:07:48] <Dave Cridland> Kev, Run the scripts in-situ, I think.
[17:07:55] <Kev> Which scripts, as which user?
[17:08:16] <Dave Cridland> Kev, This is beyond the ken of mortal folk.
[17:08:45] <Dave Cridland> Kev, I'd suggest asking stpeter but he is, sadly, in an XSF Editor meeting it seems.
[17:09:19] <m&m> it's to run the various XEP scripts as the "xsf" user
[17:10:02] <m&m> however, if you're not comfortable with the whole editorial team, this team will need to know what subset is acceptable
[17:11:39] <Dave Cridland> I think in practical terms, it really needs to be the whole team.
[17:11:44] <m&m> I agree
[17:12:08] <Kev> The whole team being able to regenerate XEPs seems fine.
[17:12:18] <Kev> I'm just not keen on handing out root to accomplish it - thus needing to know what's involved.
[17:12:30] <m&m> /nod
[17:13:02] <m&m> stpeter can provide more info, but the XEP-README should have the major points
[17:13:17] *** psa shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:13:21] *** psa shows as "online"
[17:15:55] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[17:16:21] <stpeter> we don't use root to run the editor scripts
[17:16:37] <stpeter> wouldn't we just need to add folks to the 'xsf' group?
[17:16:37] <Kev> No, I gathered that. But normal shell accounts presumably won't do :)
[17:16:43] <Kev> I don't know.
[17:16:51] <Kev> That's why I asked what they need :)
[17:16:52] <stpeter> that's my impression, anyway
[17:17:02] <stpeter> currently I run all those scripts as 'xsf'
[17:21:45] <Kev> Could I start with giving m&m access as a member of the xsf group, then, and waiting for the reports of "I can't do X" to come in?
[17:23:40] <Dave Cridland> If there are scripts that are safe to run (as in, they're idempotent or whatever), then could we devise a dry-run test?
[17:24:23] <Kev> I think 'safe to run' and 'idempotent' are very different things.
[17:24:30] <Kev> rm -rf / is idempotent.
[17:24:44] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[17:25:08] <Kev> (Well, loosely. It's technically not operating on itself, so it's not really idempotence)
[17:25:19] <stpeter> Kev: I think have a smaller group of script-runners seems fine to me
[17:25:31] <Dave Cridland> Yes, I've fallen foul of the "using an impressive sounding word but in the wrong way" fallacy.
[17:28:34] <Tobias> stpeter, right...basically it's changing to xsf home dir, switch to xmpp-hg, run "hg pull -u" and then ./calgen.py or extensions/gen.py -a
[17:28:55] <stpeter> Tobias: yep
[17:29:11] *stpeter reviews the XEP-README
[17:29:12] <Kev> Tobias: "switch to xmpp-hg'?
[17:29:24] <Tobias> Kev /home/xsf/xmpp-hg folder
[17:29:34] <Kev> Righty.
[17:29:44] <Kev> Nowhere in there did you change user :)
[17:29:56] <Tobias> well..i was already the xsf user
[17:29:59] <Tobias> :)
[17:30:25] <Tobias> maybe a setuid bit or so, but that might be too much
[17:31:03] <stpeter> Kev: what's your feeling about making the editor README a XEP?
[17:31:21] <Kev> I think there's no need and no harm.
[17:31:29] <stpeter> sounds about right
[17:31:37] <m&m> WFM
[17:31:41] <Kev> Well. Limited harm.
[17:31:47] <Kev> It's extra work without any clear(to me) benefit.
[17:31:57] <Kev> What's the motivation for doing so?
[17:32:09] <stpeter> no motivation here
[17:32:21] <m&m> I don't have any
[17:32:30] *m&m rejects some posts to editor@xmpp.org
[17:32:40] <winfried> I don't see any reason to publish internal procedures...
[17:32:46] <stpeter> m&m: we can do those in bulk sometime
[17:32:51] *stpeter nods to winfried
[17:33:04] <m&m> I was testing my password, seemed like a worthy test case (-:
[17:33:13] <stpeter> setting up greylisting seems like a higher priority now
[17:33:19] <m&m> /nod
[17:40:39] <Kev> Next question is: how do I use gpg to verify m&m's key? :)
[17:41:32] <Tobias> gpg, the pinnacle of usability
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[17:43:48] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[17:45:23] <Kev> m&m: Key ID?
[17:45:24] <stpeter> BTW, when the editor team processes files, we might want to not use personal initials, or use a convention like editor+psa
[17:45:37] <stpeter> e.g., when publishing initial versions
[17:45:47] <stpeter> that seems reasonable
[17:45:52] <stpeter> it's similar to what the RFC Editor does
[17:46:04] <Kev> XEP Editor(PSA), I'd have thought, would do?
[17:46:23] <Kev> Which is slightly less cryptic - but hills, etc.
[17:46:31] <stpeter> <initials>editor(psa)</initials>
[17:46:33] <stpeter> or somesuch
[17:47:07] <stpeter> I don't particularly care, as long as we're consistent :-)
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[17:53:35] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "stuffage"
[17:57:24] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:01:48] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "Doing too much at once, so you might chat with me as well... ;-)"
[18:03:58] *** winfried has left the room
[18:06:06] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[18:16:42] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:19:08] *** m&m shows as "online"
[18:21:21] <m&m> back now
[18:21:58] <m&m> my gpg key should be in the public keyring by now
[18:22:19] <m&m> otherwise you'll have a wonderful opportunity to verify it a week from today (-:
[18:23:32] <m&m> if tracking the specific editor is necessary, then editor(initials) seems fine, but I don't see a problem with just using "editor"
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[18:34:42] <Kev> It seems like information it's potentially useful to have, and not harmful to have, so I don't see why not to.
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[18:45:08] <stpeter> http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-README.html updated
[18:47:24] <m&m> gracias
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[19:01:00] <Kev> sighup:~/tmp/mmkey/> gpg --verify id_rsa.pub.sig id_rsa.pub.txt 5:43pm
gpg: Signature made Tue Feb 25 17:00:42 2014 GMT using RSA key ID 109E05BB
gpg: BAD signature from "Matthew A. Miller <linuxwolf@outer-planes.net>"
[19:01:02] <Kev> Uhhoh!
[19:01:15] <m&m> hrmph
[19:01:58] <Kev> I think there's an argument about whether a key only signed by you is trusted, too :D
[19:06:00] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:06:08] *** Ash shows as "online"
[19:07:53] *stpeter sets the editor@ mailman config to set only a daily digest of messages in the admin queue
[19:12:08] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[19:17:38] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[20:01:59] *** stpeter shows as "online"
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[20:25:14] <Kev> Editors - Does Council need to do BOSH things?
[20:25:38] <Kev> If so, what please? :)
[20:26:47] <stpeter> hmm
[20:34:16] *stpeter catches up on council minutes and such
[20:34:24] *** m&m shows as "online"
[20:57:16] <Neustradamus> I have missed some discussions... but there are not logs since some months:
http://logs.jabber.org/new/ Can you help me?
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[20:59:08] <stpeter> Neustradamus: that doesn't have anything to do with the XEP Editor Team
[20:59:59] <Neustradamus> There is not discussion here?
[21:00:04] *stpeter redirects the conversation to the appropriate chatroom
[21:00:15] <Neustradamus> before "<m&m> /nod"?
[21:02:12] <Kev> If you want the logs for this room, note that it's not on jabber.org, and look at http://logs.xmpp.org
[21:02:12] <stpeter> Neustradamus: this room is for discussion about the XEP Editor Team, not jabber.org logging issues
[21:02:41] <stpeter> right, see http://logs.xmpp.org/editor/ for logs of this room
[21:04:13] <m&m> /-:
[21:04:44] <Neustradamus> ho yes, sorry!
[21:04:45] <m&m> git clone failed for me:
mamille2$ git clone git@athena.jabber.org:xmpp.git
Cloning into 'xmpp'...
ssh: connect to host athena.jabber.org port 22: Connection refused
fatal: Could not read from remote repository.

Please make sure you have the correct access rights
and the repository exists.

[21:06:03] <Kev> m&m: Right. I've not set it up for you because I'm hoping I have some way of verifying your key first :)
[21:06:16] <stpeter> it's not on port 22 either
[21:06:23] <Kev> Send me your key over XMPP and I'll vaguely trust it :)
[21:06:32] <Steffen Larsen> hey stpeter. I just made a quick wiki: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Editor_team . Who was the last couple of persons?
[21:06:37] <Neustradamus> I mix jabber.org/xmpp.org logs but my request was originaly about to see previous conversations before line that I have noted before...
[21:06:56] <Kev> Neustradamus: So follow the link that we gave you.
[21:06:57] <m&m> http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/259/943/694.png
[21:07:20] <Neustradamus> Kev: :)
[21:07:21] <stpeter> m&m: 5284 is your friend
[21:07:36] <Kev> Host athena.jabber.org
Port 5284
[21:07:39] <m&m> I'm following the instructions on http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-source-control/
[21:07:40] <Kev> ~/.ssh/config
[21:07:45] <m&m> thanks
[21:09:59] <Neustradamus> little question: editor@... is a ML? because it is not listed on http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo
[21:10:09] <stpeter> Steffen Larsen: I think that list is complete
[21:10:19] <Kev> m&m: You should have access to the xmpp repository.
[21:10:27] <stpeter> Neustradamus: it's mostly an alias and not really a mailing list -- we have other lists that are not listed there
[21:10:38] <m&m> "Ashley" ==> Ashley Ward
[21:10:42] <stpeter> right
[21:10:44] <m&m> otherwise that looks like the right list to me
[21:10:53] <Kev> Which we very probably want to split up to only contain XEPs and associated at some point.
[21:11:13] *** Ash shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[21:11:21] *** Ash shows as "online"
[21:11:21] <stpeter> not sure whether editor@ ought to be archived
[21:11:31] <Neustradamus> stpeter: ok!
For me, like you want...
[21:11:37] <m&m> hmm
[21:11:38] <Steffen Larsen> does anyone know if joachim actually signed up for editor? I know he signed up for upnp laison..
[21:12:04] <m&m> hmm hmm hmmm … archiving editor@ … hmm hmm
[21:12:04] <stpeter> Steffen Larsen: I defer to others on that, although we do need to get the UPnP thing going :-)
[21:12:15] <Steffen Larsen> stpeter: yes
[21:12:20] <m&m> yeah, "not it" on UPnP
[21:12:29] <Steffen Larsen> m&m: updated the names on the wiki
[21:12:47] *stpeter laughs at m&m's MINE :-)
[21:13:05] *m&m smacks forehead
[21:13:12] <m&m> I could have updated that list myself! (-
[21:13:18] <m&m> stpeter: (-:<
[21:13:39] <m&m> I'm now waiting for Kev to apply the public key I sent him via IM
[21:13:41] <Kev> stpeter: He did not volunteer on the list, and wasn't on the list selected by Council and Board, I think?
[21:13:49] <m&m> he was not
[21:13:54] <Kev> m&m: Scroll up four minutes.
[21:13:55] <m&m> from my reading of the list(s)
[21:13:55] <stpeter> Kev: that's my understanding
[21:14:22] <Kev> I don't see a problem with adding him, I think it just needs Council to suggest it to Board.
[21:14:37] <m&m> Kev: I did send my key over XMPP
[21:14:51] <Kev> m&m: You should have access to the xmpp repository. Kev @ 21:07
[21:15:26] <Kev> It was done, immediately!
[21:15:49] <m&m> hrmph
[21:15:56] <m&m> I did not see that
[21:16:01] <m&m> I do not see that
[21:16:17] <m&m> (in the history)
[21:16:39] <m&m> anyway, thank you for applying my pubkey
[21:17:14] <Kev> YW.
[21:19:24] <Neustradamus> I am volunteer like I have said previously on xsf room at Dave Cridland
[21:24:11] *m&m studies http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-README.html#advancing
[21:24:45] <stpeter> heh
[21:25:07] <stpeter> it's always good to test the runbook
[21:26:32] <m&m> exactly
[21:27:09] <Kev> I think the README might be missing 'assign appropriate namespaces'?
[21:31:26] <Steffen Larsen> ok g'night folks.. off to bed. cheers
[21:32:34] <m&m> hrm
[21:34:49] <m&m> oh, nevermind … I skipped a step (-:
[21:39:21] *** m&m has left the room
[21:39:32] *** m&m has joined the room
[21:50:20] *m&m commits and pushes changes …
[21:52:14] <m&m> XEP-0152 is now at step 6 of XEP-README
[21:53:47] <m&m> now I need someone with shell access to finish things off
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[21:55:31] <Kev> Ah yes, you needed that as well.
[21:55:36] <m&m> (-:
[21:56:31] <Kev> mamille?
[21:56:43] <Kev> linuxwolf?
[21:57:23] <m&m> the latter would be nicer, otherwise mamille2 (which is my work uid)
[21:57:38] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:58:20] <Kev> Let me know when you're logged in.
[21:58:46] <m&m> in
[21:58:50] <Kev> Marvellous.
[21:59:01] <Kev> I guess you don't need a password as you're not sudoing.
[21:59:08] <Kev> You thought just being in the xsf group would be enough, yes?
[21:59:27] <m&m> well, I haven't tried to run any of the scripts yet
[21:59:30] <Neustradamus> stpeter: somes links do not work on http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-README.html maybe a little update?
[22:00:07] <Kev> Hmm. I wonder if xmpp or xsf was what was meant.
[22:00:27] <Kev> xsf
[22:00:58] <m&m> logout and login as xsf@ ?
[22:01:10] <Kev> You are now in the xsf group if you log out and in again.
[22:01:15] <Kev> Which someone thought should be enough for you.
[22:02:42] <m&m> I guess we'll see
[22:04:35] <m&m> hrmph
[22:04:48] <Kev> Give me a moment, I'll do something else.
[22:05:37] <m&m> assuming "Update SVN on the webserver" means "Pull to editor's workspace from local git repository", I ran into a permissions problem
[22:06:09] <m&m> if that helps suss out the next layer of this onion
[22:07:34] <Kev> OK.
[22:07:45] <Kev> Can you try
sudo su -
[22:08:07] <m&m> prompted for password
[22:08:09] <Kev> sudo /bin/bash
[22:09:03] <m&m> sudo is prompting for a password
[22:09:13] <Kev> sudo -u xsf /usr/bin/vim
[22:09:29] <Kev> And if that doesn't work, lastly
[22:09:34] <Kev> sudo -u /bin/bash
[22:09:44] <Kev> Which is the only one that should work, if I've not screwed up the sudo config.
[22:09:49] <m&m> -u by itself?
[22:09:53] <Kev> No.
[22:09:58] <m&m> -u xsf
[22:09:59] <Kev> Type what I meant, not what I said :)
[22:10:04] <m&m> (-:
[22:10:05] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[22:10:19] <m&m> still prompting for a password
[22:10:22] <Kev> Hmm
[22:10:23] <Kev> groups
[22:10:34] <m&m> linuxwolf xsf
[22:11:03] <Kev> OK.
[22:11:08] <Kev> Now log out/in and try again.
[22:11:16] <m&m> will do
[22:11:17] <m&m> but why don't I just passwd?
[22:11:39] <m&m> that worked
[22:11:48] <Kev> The config is that you can only run one command, which is /bin/bash as xsf.
[22:12:15] <Kev> I could add needing a password onto that as well. I guess that wouldn't be stupid.
[22:12:26] <m&m> I think that would be a good idea
[22:12:51] <m&m> oh, but I'll need my current password, because I'm not root (duh)
[22:13:14] <Kev> You now have your current password.
[22:13:16] <Kev> Please change it.
[22:14:35] <m&m> password updated
[22:15:06] <Kev> Good. You need your password to sudo now.
[22:15:11] <m&m> and I'm prompted for a password on sudo
[22:15:20] <m&m> ls -lhA
[22:15:22] <m&m> er
[22:25:49] <m&m> I must be an idiot, because I can't get past my permissions problem cloning the git repo
[22:26:56] <stpeter> sorry, I was on a video call, what did I miss in those 60 messages? ;-)
[22:27:18] <m&m> I am stuck on step 6 of "Advancing a XEP"
[22:27:55] <stpeter> oh
[22:28:10] <stpeter> well, you must have a password of some kind on athena, no?
[22:28:16] <m&m> I do
[22:28:19] <m&m> I'm logged in now
[22:28:21] <stpeter> oh ok
[22:28:38] <m&m> its a basic permissions problem
[22:28:43] <stpeter> hrm
[22:28:46] <stpeter> on which part?
[22:28:59] <m&m> with the local git repo
[22:29:00] <stpeter> I munged lots of steps into one
[22:29:04] <stpeter> hrm
[22:29:13] <m&m> readable only by the user "git"
[22:29:21] <stpeter> local = on athena?
[22:29:22] <m&m> or anyone in the "git" group
[22:29:23] <m&m> yes
[22:29:30] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:29:44] <m&m> assuming that "Update SVN on the webserver" means "Pull latest into git working directory"
[22:29:57] <stpeter> oh I thought I removed all references to SVN
[22:30:12] <stpeter> ah, not quite, I see
[22:30:16] <stpeter> did you reload the README?
[22:30:55] <m&m> oh
[22:30:59] <m&m> I had a cached copy
[22:31:15] <m&m> I had reloaded, but I didn't aggressively reload (-:
[22:31:37] <m&m> ok
[22:31:50] <m&m> I see I did mess up the <revision/> block then
[22:32:12] <m&m> used <initials>Editor(mm)</initials> instead of <initials>XEP Editor (mm)</initials>
[22:32:23] <m&m> that's trivial to fix
[22:32:27] <stpeter> I foresee the need to make further fixes on the README
[22:32:59] *** stpeter has left the room
[22:35:05] <m&m> testing
[22:36:36] *** stpeter has joined the room
[22:36:41] <stpeter> weird
[22:36:52] <stpeter> anyway I see:


[22:36:56] <stpeter> which is strange
[22:37:00] <stpeter> in /etc/groups
[22:37:49] <m&m> hrmph
[22:37:51] <m&m> very
[22:37:52] <stpeter> /etc/group that is
[22:38:29] <m&m> just tried to run archive.sh, and got:
cp: cannot stat `/var/www/vhosts/xmpp.org/extensions/xep-.html': No such file or directory

[22:38:38] <m&m> I don't know how innocuous that is
[22:39:06] <stpeter> oh
[22:39:08] <stpeter> heh
[22:39:21] <stpeter> usage for those scripts is in the script
[22:39:23] <stpeter> my bad
[22:39:27] <m&m> (-:
[22:39:30] <stpeter> we're finding errors in the documentation
[22:39:43] <stpeter> so it's './archive.sh 0152' or whatever
[22:39:50] <m&m> ah, ok
[22:40:00] <stpeter> and lastcall.py takes a date
[22:40:02] <stpeter> and so on
[22:40:07] <stpeter> bad docs, bad scripts
[22:40:12] <m&m> hehe
[22:40:14] <stpeter> I'm sure the editor team can do better
[22:40:18] <m&m> so that worked
[22:40:36] <m&m> maybe
[22:41:04] <m&m> "maybe" as in "maybe we could do better"
[22:42:24] <m&m> so, "List Administration"
[22:42:52] <m&m> this states I need to login to list-admin for standards@xmpp.org
[22:43:17] <stpeter> right
[22:43:27] <stpeter> the announcement email will go there
[22:43:36] <stpeter> from running ./announce.py 0152
[22:43:44] <m&m> right
[22:43:45] <stpeter> but email from editor@ is modded
[22:43:53] <stpeter> since otherwise we'd have lots more spam on the list
[22:43:59] <m&m> sure
[22:44:01] <m&m> it makes sense
[22:44:09] <stpeter> I think we could fix some of that in the postfix config
[22:44:28] <stpeter> discard all editor@ from addresses other than those originating locally
[22:44:39] <m&m> /nod
[22:44:40] <m&m> anyway
[22:46:15] <m&m> I either need the admin password for standards, or you need to clear out the queue
[22:46:21] <m&m> 'cause we're ready to announce!
[22:47:52] <m&m> (or the postfix config is jiggered)
[23:36:58] <stpeter> just cleared the queue
[23:37:39] <m&m> ok, calling announce now
[23:40:50] <m&m> check the queue, should be a message pending from editor@xmpp.org
[23:48:17] *** stpeter has left the room