Wednesday, February 26, 2014
editor@muc.xmpp.org
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XEP Editor Team — logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/editor/

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[09:08:12] <Kev> I refer to yesterday's BOSH question :)
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[14:46:38] <Dave Cridland> http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-people/#editor actually says to submit XEPs to Peter directly, still.
[14:48:27] <m&m> hrm
[14:48:35] <m&m> we'll have to get that changed
[14:49:12] <Dave Cridland> I assume I'm meant to send XEPs to editor@xmpp.org?
[14:49:17] <m&m> correct
[14:50:58] <m&m> someone will need to reconcile that and http://xmpp.org/xmpp-protocols/xmpp-extensions/submitting-a-xep/
[14:51:18] <m&m> oh, looks like someone might already have
[14:51:44] <m&m> well, at least left the contact details to the first location
[14:52:50] <m&m> if you already have suggested text, I can put it in place
[14:53:32] <m&m> otherwise the Editorial Team could provide the board something
[14:54:06] <Dave Cridland> Given it already has a statement from a previous Board there, I suppose we should sort it.
[14:55:46] <Dave Cridland> Made a submission in (I think) the correct form. Awaiting Moderator Approval.
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[15:23:06] *m&m goes to review the queue
[15:43:03] <Dave Cridland> "do you can and will cede rights" - I don't think that's quite right. Beyond the odd phrasing (missing "assert that"?). Our IPR policy is such that we don't ask authors to cede rights, but assign ownership, I think.
[15:43:30] <m&m> that is a good point
[15:43:36] <m&m> I'll correct my template
[15:43:37] <Dave Cridland> (That's WRT the "Thank you for your submission" message I got)
[15:43:44] <m&m> I assumed
[15:45:12] <Dave Cridland> Also my XEP-0001 changes will affect the second sentence; in fact that's not true today either.
[15:45:25] <Dave Cridland> Sorry; will affect if they're accepted.
[15:47:57] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:47:59] <m&m> true
[15:50:21] <m&m> so, assuming the proposed update to XEP-0001 is approved, how does the following look?

Thank you for your submission. The Approving Body will decide on
whether to accept your proposal within the next 14 days.

In accordance with the XSF IPR policy, do you:

1. Acknowledge you own the rights to the content in the submitted proposal?
2. Assign those rights to the XMPP Standards Foundation upon acceptance of the proposal?

The IPR policy is available at <
http://xmpp.org/extensions/ipr-policy.shtml >


XEP Editor
[15:51:06] <Dave Cridland> s/will decide/will be polled on/ and you're good.
[15:51:31] <m&m> awesome
[15:51:37] <m&m> I'll add it to our work wiki
[15:51:39] <Dave Cridland> The decision could (by current Council rules, for instance) take 28 days - 14 before Kev polls, and 14 before the timeout is hit.
[15:51:54] <Dave Cridland> I mean, assuming the XEP-0001 changes go in.
[15:52:27] <Dave Cridland> The current XEP-0001 does say 14 days to a decision, but in practise it's 14 days after the next Council meeting.
[15:53:12] <m&m> better to be long than short then
[15:53:23] <m&m> full text once more:

Thank you for your submission. The Approving Body will be polled on
whether to accept your proposal within the next 28 days.

In accordance with the XSF IPR policy, do you:

1. Acknowledge you own the rights to the content in the submitted proposal?
2. Assign those rights to the XMPP Standards Foundation upon acceptance of the proposal?

The IPR policy is available at <
http://xmpp.org/extensions/ipr-policy.shtml >


XEP Editor
[15:54:48] <Dave Cridland> Well, if you say 28 days, you can say "decide". "poll" was my choice of weasel words to stipulate a requirement for the question rather than the answer.
[15:55:56] <m&m> oi
[15:56:17] <m&m> I don't like weaseling through things
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[15:58:32] <Dave Cridland> SO the full requirements including both the new XEP-0001 changes proposed and Kev's current rules for Council (which are ruled out of scope for XEP-0001) are that Council members are formally asked for objections within 14 days, and must respond with objections either in a meeting or on the standards list within (a further) 14 days - otherwise they are deemed to have no objection.
[15:59:06] <Kev> And assuming there are meetings within the next 14 days.
[15:59:29] <Kev> e.g. this isn't necessarily true over Christmas or such if we skip two meetings.
[15:59:45] <Dave Cridland> What made it complicated to explain in XEP-0001 is that the second 14-day period (starting when the Council members are asked), is regulated by Kev as Council Chair, and not by XEP-0001.
[16:00:20] <Dave Cridland> Kev, Ah, which? The objection timeout of the poll timeout? If we need exceptions for the poll timeout that means I need to tweak that text.
[16:00:51] <Kev> I would be inclined to keep the current text, almost.
[16:01:14] <Kev> But to instead of say 'decide' say 'Council will start an objection period within...' or such.
[16:01:28] <Kev> Wordsmithing without the current text in front of me's probably a bad idea.
[16:01:33] <Kev> But that's the intention, as I see it.
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[16:02:01] <Kev> Council will start a voting period on their next meeting, usually, or the one after that if it's submitting close to the line.
[16:02:12] <Kev> Then that will last however long current Council procedures are for it to take.
[16:02:28] <Kev> I think that as long as xep1 isn't misleading, it doesn't need to tie us down completely.
[16:02:45] <Kev> (That is - a reading author should not be misled as to how long it'll take)
[16:02:46] <Dave Cridland> Kev, Right. My changes to XEP-0001 are exactly that, modulo that it requires a poll to be made (though not a meeting as such) within 14 days.
[16:03:18] <Kev> I only read the summary - only just back after being out all afternoon. Will read the changes proper at some point.
[16:03:28] <Dave Cridland> Kev, Whereas the old one required any objections be logged within 14 days, which isn't - quite - how you work.
[16:04:37] <Kev> It certainly gave that impression. You know my alternative interpretation, but I agree that reading it one would expect an answer within 14 days (or next meeting).
[16:05:22] <Dave Cridland> Yes; as I say I'm more concerned with changing XEP-0001 to reflect reality than insisting you guys change.
[16:06:10] <Lloyd> was it buddycloud#owner ?
[16:06:18] <Lloyd> window fail, sorry.
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[16:21:57] <m&m> hrm
[16:22:09] <stpeter> heh
[16:22:11] <m&m> http://jabber.org/protocol/muc no longer redirects somewhere useful
[16:22:36] <stpeter> it would not surprise me if we lost all the redirects in a webserver change at some point
[16:22:45] <m&m> that looks to be the case
[16:23:01] <m&m> before it was Apache httpd? Now it's nginx
[16:23:14] <stpeter> it was lighttpd for quite a while
[16:23:20] <m&m> ah that's right
[16:23:24] <stpeter> surely Apache in the ancient days
[16:23:42] <m&m> in any case, redirects are server specific, so any change would very likely cause losss
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[19:52:35] <Dave Cridland> Thanks for processing that submission. Sorry it was such a pain. :-)
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[20:20:22] <m&m> we're working out the kinks (-:
[20:20:28] <stpeter> :)
[20:20:42] <stpeter> process improvements have occurred already!
[20:20:45] <m&m> I'm tempted to write a Makefile to deal with various pieces
[20:21:10] <m&m> see if we can do it without someone actually being *on* the webserver all the time
[20:21:41] <stpeter> nod
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[20:46:16] <Kev> Presumably you could do everything with a git hook if you wanted.
[20:46:24] <Kev> Only push to master stuff you want published, etc.
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[20:49:32] <m&m> possibly
[20:50:05] <Kev> With my infrastructure hat on, I would rather we didn't have many people trying to do things with shell on the machine.
[20:50:06] <m&m> well, maybe not
[20:50:16] <m&m> I completely understand
[20:50:37] <m&m> I'll have to think about how we could use git pushes to do this
[20:50:48] <Kev> I'll give out shell to everyone if we need to.
[20:50:57] <Kev> If we can avoid it, I'd find it preferable.
[20:51:02] <m&m> the differences in some cases are very subtle
[20:51:07] <m&m> /nod
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