Thursday, December 09, 2010
interop@muc.xmpp.org
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http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Verify | http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Interop

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[09:05:05] <Kev> Good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning, good morning.
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[09:17:14] <Kev> Ok, so, is everyone ok with the plan for today?
[09:17:37] <Kev> Set all the test machines to require TLS, check the pings again.
[09:17:53] <Kev> And I'll set up the machines with invalid certs, ready for tomorrow.
[09:18:15] <Kev> That is, for today, set all the machines to require TLS, but not to require *valid* TLS - any certificate should be accepted.
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[09:26:14] <remko> all: can i get an account swift / swift on all servers?
[09:26:58] <Kev> The idea of not putting the account details on that page was so we didn't have public records of the logins.
[09:27:13] <remko> *sigh*
[09:27:23] <remko> seriously, for an interop of one week?
[09:27:41] <remko> ok then :)
[09:27:46] <Kev> They're all openly federating.
[09:27:52] <Kev> If they weren't, it wouldn't be a problem.
[09:28:04] <remko> ah, i was assuming they weren't
[09:29:09] <Kev> That would mean quite some effort for the server vendors.
[09:29:23] <remko> true
[09:29:51] <remko> client certificates are the future :)
[09:30:32] <Kev> Yes, I considered adding those to the test plan, but I don't think anyone other than M-Link supports them. If any other servers do, I'm happy to add it to the plan.
[09:31:14] <remko> it would be handy to have MUC nicks on the page to know who to ask for logins :)
[09:31:59] <Kev> fippo is psyced (no C2S, I believe), badlop is ejabberd, MattJ/waqas are Prosody, Dave Cridland is M-Link, Florian is Tigase.
[09:38:34] *** badlop has joined the room
[09:39:25] <badlop> remko: ejabberd21 has IBR with CAPTCHA
[09:39:41] <remko> badlop: swift doesn't do IBR yet :)
[09:41:56] <badlop> i'll create now, but you should use an alternative client for the features your client doesn't yet support
[09:42:35] <badlop> is Test 2 right now, or are we still in Test 1?
Test 2 (Thursday). Requiring TLS on all s2s connections on all servers
[09:42:44] <Kev> badlop: Test 2 would be good, please.
[09:43:02] <Kev> badlop:
Ok, so, is everyone ok with the plan for today? Kev @ 9:15
Set all the test machines to require TLS, check the pings again. 9:15
And I'll set up the machines with invalid certs, ready for tomorrow. 9:15
That is, for today, set all the machines to require TLS, but not to require *valid* TLS - any certificate should be accepted. 9:16

[09:44:07] *** sjoerd.simons shows as "online"
[09:49:12] <badlop> remko: account created
[09:49:22] <remko> badlop: super, thanks a lot!
[09:49:50] <badlop> ejabberd21 s2s requires TLS, with a preliminary patch i wrote yesterday, let's hope it works
[09:51:00] *** badlop shows as "xa"
[09:51:42] *** badlop changed the title to "XMPP Interop Event | 6th - 11th December 2010 | http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Interop | right now: Test 2 (s2s require TLS)"
[09:52:18] <badlop> oh, no room admin here to add to the room subject: | right now: Test 2 (s2s require TLS)
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[10:01:34] <Dave Cridland> badlop, Yes, PSA mentioned that.
[10:01:39] <Dave Cridland> Morning all, BTW.
[10:02:29] <Dave Cridland> So, mlinkrelease can't require TLS. It can require a valid cert (ie, one that the chain terminates in a trust anchor), but that's it.
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[10:11:16] <Tobias> Dave Cridland: what's the difference? meaning you can't require TLS with an invalid cert or what?
[10:11:38] <Dave Cridland> Well, if you don't do TLS at all, that's still fine. :-)
[10:11:58] <Tobias> ah, right :)
[10:12:29] <Kev> Ok, I've put up the results stubs for today's tests for severs.
[10:19:59] <Dave Cridland> Anyone desperate to go first?
[10:21:28] <Kev> You started the trend yesterday.
[10:21:34] <Dave Cridland> 'kay
[10:21:38] <Dave Cridland> SO let's go.
[10:22:12] <Dave Cridland> So am I even attempting to test mlinkrelease?
[10:23:29] <Kev> Testing against it, but not testing it, according to the wiki page :)
[10:23:32] <Dave Cridland> Kev, Is notls up and running?
[10:23:46] <Kev> Matt was going to do that yesterday, I don't know if he did.
[10:23:51] <Kev> Shouldn't be hard to work out, should it?
[10:24:04] <Dave Cridland> Well, I get an error from mlinkrelease.
[10:24:30] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[10:24:35] <Dave Cridland> host-unknown.
[10:24:59] <Dave Cridland> So that needs to be up later. The problem is that unless this is running, we can't really test that we're unable to connect to it.
[10:25:19] <Kev> This is true.
[10:25:24] <Dave Cridland> Well. Not up later, up now, really. But we'll all have to do the negative testing against it later, I suppose.
[10:25:34] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[10:25:53] <Dave Cridland> But anyway, my first lot of results are (unsuprisingly) that mlinkrelease can still connect to everyone.
[10:27:15] <Kev> The telnet says:
<stream:stream id='' xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' version='1.0' xmlns='jabber:server'><stream:error><host-unknown xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-streams'/><text xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-streams'>This host does not serve notls.xmpptest.com</text></stream:error></stream:stream>
[10:27:18] <Kev> So yes, not up.
[10:27:50] <Dave Cridland> OK, mlinktrunk connects to everyone except tigasetrunk - which is expected, as tigasetrunk is actually the same as notls is meant to be.
[10:28:05] <Dave Cridland> So I suggest folk test against the full suite anyway.
[10:28:28] <Kev> Well, Tigase isn't quite what notls is meant to be.
[10:28:39] <Kev> notls is supposed to be XMPP, but not supporting starttls.
[10:28:57] <Kev> Tigase is doing jabber/0.9 only, isn't it?
[10:29:07] <Dave Cridland> It has the same effect.
[10:29:20] <Kev> It has the same effect for M-Link :)
[10:32:01] <Dave Cridland> OK, so I'm done anyway. Wiki updated.
[10:33:25] *** Tobias has left the room
[10:33:27] <Kev> I've updated the testing blurb to indicate that failure against tigasetrunk is required.
[10:43:43] *** badlop shows as "online"
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[11:04:02] <Dave Cridland> Anyone else having a go?
[11:04:38] <badlop> me, ejabberd21 works with all except tigase, as expected
[11:06:56] <Dave Cridland> badlop, Cool, so that patch you did yesterday works?
[11:07:42] <badlop> well, at least it doesn't break s2s
[11:11:24] <Kev> \o/
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[11:20:06] <steve.kille> Should test 2 be including a server which does not support TLS, and tries to connect to the other servers. It should be required (of the other servers) that they refuse the connection#
[11:21:57] <Kev> Yes, and it does.
[11:21:59] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[11:22:25] <badlop> you mean, if tigase were able to connect to any other now, then there's a bug in that other
[11:22:43] <Kev> notls (to be set up later when Matt gets up) will be XMPP 1.0 without TLS, and tigasetrunk is XMPP 0.9/Jabber without TLS.
[11:23:43] <badlop> i think steve.kille refers to testing s2s from notls-server --> supposedly-tls-required
[11:23:57] <Kev> Right, but that's required to get the iq result.
[11:24:14] <Kev> Doing an ping from one server to another requires the setup of streams both ways.
[11:24:32] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[11:26:21] <steve.kille> Kev: I think it would be helpful to clarify thing shojuld not work wiht notls, irrespective of wo initiates.
[11:26:29] <Dave Cridland> This is true, unless bidi is involved.
[11:26:54] <Dave Cridland> We can do that one notls is actually up.
[11:26:56] <Dave Cridland> once.
[11:27:00] <Kev> steve.kille: Both parties always initiate (unless bidi is involved).
[11:27:19] <Dave Cridland> Kev, Yes, but it won't hurt to test.
[11:27:30] <Dave Cridland> Kev, At least one implementation supports bidi, after all.
[11:27:39] <fippo> btw: I tested ssl2 this morning
[11:28:11] <fippo> mlinktrunk, mlinkrelease, prosody and psyced kill the connection, ejabberd does not (yet?) work with that s_client version
[11:28:34] <Dave Cridland> Really? I thought we accepted it on inbound, still.
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[11:29:08] <fippo> the v2 client hello probably is
[11:29:28] <Dave Cridland> fippo, Oh, for sure. But I thought we allowed the protocol inbound too.
[11:29:38] *fippo checks again
[11:32:27] <fippo> indeed, it fails differently - but still fails
[11:35:35] <Dave Cridland> Well, no SSLv2 in my logs, certainly.
[11:41:35] *** Simon Josefsson shows as "xa"
[11:42:05] *** Florian shows as "online"
[11:43:10] <Florian> remko: In-Band Registration is enabled :)
[11:46:18] <Dave Cridland> Florian, Want to see if you can reach anyone from tigasetrunk?
[11:51:12] <wjt> so, does anyone have a xep-0055 directory set up on their interop test-y server?
[11:51:14] <Kev> Well, he probably can still reach Prosody, because Matt / waqas aren't about yet.
[11:55:06] <badlop> like vjud.ejabberd21.xmpptest.com ? but s2s to it doesn't work
[11:55:38] <Kev> badlop: Just because of DNS? I don't mind putting up a record.
[11:55:55] <wjt> badlop: for instance! i've not been keeping up with this week—have some kind of plague—but presumably we could also register test accounts on ejabberd21.x.c
[11:56:24] <Kev> I expect Dave Cridland could also be persuaded to enable -55 on mlinktrunk
[11:56:43] <Dave Cridland> Kev, I think it is, actually.
[11:57:01] <Dave Cridland> Kev, But probably defaulting to local-searches only.
[11:57:01] <Kev> I expect Dave Cridland will have enabled -55 on mlinktrunk.
[11:57:33] <wjt> well, that's grand. let's see if i can get pochu in here... :)
[11:57:53] <Dave Cridland> wjt, Our '55 basically allows users to opt-in or opt-out - there's three settings (never visible, visible in local searches, and visible in all searches) plus a default if they don't express a preference.
[11:58:05] <wjt> how do you choose this setting?
[11:58:11] *** remko shows as "online"
[11:58:12] <Dave Cridland> wjt, Ad-Hoc.
[11:58:22] <wjt> my very favourite xep
[11:58:41] <Florian> why wouldn't I be able to reach people?
[11:58:42] <wjt> which we might actually implement support for in the new year
[11:59:01] <Kev> Florian: Because today's tests require TLS for s2s.
[11:59:04] <Dave Cridland> wjt, M-Link's had ad-hoc controlled user preferences for ages, we use them currently to alloow auto-subscribe, control offline message settings, etc.
[11:59:05] <Florian> ah
[11:59:11] <Kev> See the test plan :)
[11:59:18] <wjt> Dave Cridland: Oh, I'm sure lots of servers do
[11:59:18] <Florian> we have a test plan?
[11:59:26] <wjt> Dave Cridland: doesn't mean I like it very much ;-)
[11:59:29] <Dave Cridland> Florian, So if you can reach anyone, then they're broken.
[11:59:32] <Kev> Yes, it's on the wiki page.
[11:59:37] <wjt> but I've softened in my opinion on these matters in recent months
[11:59:42] <Kev> Dave Cridland: Broken, or haven't changet their config for today yet.
[12:00:17] <Florian> ok :)
[12:00:19] <Kev> wjt: Ad-hoc as a concept is great, as a protocol is fine, and as a XEP is lacking.
[12:01:02] <Kev> You're free to disagree with me, of course, everyone has the right to be wrong :)
[12:01:11] <Florian> mlinktrunk is broken
[12:01:35] <Kev> Florian: See the note that says that mlinktrunk isn't participating today :)
[12:01:40] <Dave Cridland> Kev, I think wjt doesn't like the lack of i18ness.
[12:01:47] <wjt> Kev: I think it's hard to make UIs for ad-hoc-style random-dialog-boxes-from-the-server beautiful
[12:02:13] <Kev> wjt: Yes, that's right. For things that aren't really ad-hoc, we have profiles so you can know what to expect (RC, Server admin, for example).
[12:02:42] <wjt> i18n is a secondary concern, but this one i really don't mind that much about: in practice, if you're using a server, you probably speak (one of the) same language(s) as its administrator
[12:03:29] <Florian> it says mlinkrelease isn't participating?!
[12:03:38] <Florian> mlinkrelease Not participating - can only require valid certs, or not require - can't require a cert but not care if it's valid.
[12:03:58] <Kev> Right :)
[12:04:25] <Kev> So that'll participate again tomorrow when we require TLS and full cert checking for s2s.
[12:04:28] <Florian> because I can connect to mlinktrunk
[12:04:30] <wjt> Kev, sure, and that's one of the reasons I've softened my opinion on them :)
[12:04:35] <Kev> Oh, mlink*trunk*
[12:04:38] <Florian> yes :)
[12:04:49] <Florian> [11:59:00] <Florian> mlinktrunk is broken :)
[12:04:52] <Kev> Dave Cridland: !
[12:04:53] <wjt> Kev: for the common cases, we can do something nice; for uncommon cases, whatever, it's your own fault for doing weird stuff
[12:05:01] <Kev> Sorry, I just read mlinkrelease without paying attention, my bad.
[12:05:04] <Florian> :)
[12:05:17] <Florian> I guess service discovery shouldn't work
[12:05:27] <Florian> as that's S2S
[12:05:28] <Kev> Correct.
[12:05:35] <Florian> right :)
[12:05:40] <Florian> so yeah ... trunk is broken :)
[12:05:48] <Kev> Although you may need to bounce the server to cancel any existing s2s sessions first, possibly.
[12:05:58] <Florian> ah
[12:06:23] <Kev> Dave Cridland will know if he already did that with mlinktrunk, it's his test server.
[12:06:39] <Florian> interesting ...
[12:06:52] <Florian> Prosody8 gives me a disco title (Server name)
[12:06:54] <Florian> but no contents
[12:06:55] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[12:07:51] <Florian> right .. the rest fails
[12:09:21] *** badlop shows as "away" and his status message is "Automáticamente ausente debido a inactividad"
[12:11:26] <fippo> florian: it's trying to reconnect rather often (every five seconds)
[12:12:53] <Florian> still now?
[12:13:13] <fippo> yes... let's see if closing the port on my side will stop that
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[12:19:19] *** badlop shows as "xa" and his status message is "Automáticamente ausente debido a inactividad"
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[12:29:19] *** badlop shows as "away" and his status message is "Automáticamente ausente debido a inactividad"
[12:31:14] <Dave Cridland> Oh. So I read Florian's message as saying mlinktrunk was *correctly* broken, but what he meant was it's working.
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[12:32:35] <Dave Cridland> Florian, Ah. WHat server were you connecting *from*?
[12:32:47] <Florian> fippo: it tries to reconnect for a few minutes and then gives up
[12:32:55] <Florian> jabber.me
[12:32:59] <Florian> same host as tigasetrunk
[12:33:11] <Dave Cridland> Right, but different domain.
[12:33:19] <Florian> right
[12:33:23] <Florian> ah ... domain limited?
[12:33:25] <Dave Cridland> I'd configured mlinktrunk to require TLS from *.xmpptest.com
[12:33:34] <Florian> ok
[12:33:38] <Florian> let me test it from there :)
[12:33:39] <Dave Cridland> (Because mlinktrunk is also a vhost)
[12:33:45] <Florian> :)
[12:34:01] <Florian> Tigase might have S2S TLS by the end of the week
[12:34:14] <Kev> Perhaps it can pass tomorrow's tests then :)
[12:36:58] <Dave Cridland> Given that we all fail tomorrow's tests...
[12:37:20] <Florian> yup ... mlinktrunk now fails too :)
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[12:38:14] <Dave Cridland> \o/
[12:38:28] <Kev> Dave Cridland: We all fail *some* of tomorrow's tests, I don't think that stops it being worth testing that everyone passes the bits they think they do.
[12:38:31] <Florian> so the expected result :)
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[12:39:26] <Dave Cridland> Kev, Right. Or our X.509 team might fix the interesting bug we have. (Which is actually in Sodium CA).
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[12:42:15] <emilio.pozuelo@collabora.co.uk> hi! I'm implementing contact search in empathy (a client using the Telepathy framework) and wanted to test if it's working... can anybody tell me a server I can test it? thanks!
[12:43:15] <Dave Cridland> mlinktrunk.xmpptest.com has '55 available on the IM domain.
[12:43:29] <wjt> emilio.pozuelo@collabora.co.uk: there's a big list o' servers on the wiki page
[12:43:39] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo@collabora.co.uk, Want to use gabble with password gabble?
[12:44:03] <emilio.pozuelo@collabora.co.uk> Dave Cridland: gabble, yes. No idea about the password :)
[12:44:08] <emilio.pozuelo@collabora.co.uk> wjt: thanks, checking
[12:44:55] <wjt> emilio.pozuelo@collabora.co.uk: (also, if you set an alias in Edit → Personal Information in Empathy, you'll get a nicer nickname in this room next time you join, and look better on people's rosters, too :) )
[12:45:22] <emilio.pozuelo@collabora.co.uk> wjt: I've actually done that twice I think... I wonder why it's not saving it :(
[12:45:40] <wjt> oh, yeah... there's a bug where sometimes the aliases get lost and i don't know why :'(
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[12:47:30] *emilio.pozuelo@collabora.co.uk restarts empathy to test contact search
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[13:04:16] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, I'll restart that server in a moment, just to warn you.
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[13:31:51] <Dave Cridland> Well, that's interesting. I seem to be failing against ejabberd21
[13:32:37] <Dave Cridland> Ah! In fact, I failed this morning, when I look closer. Must have misread.
[13:33:03] <Dave Cridland> No features, so no TLS:

(13:26:35) Send (214)
<?xml version='1.0'?><stream:stream xmlns='jabber:server' xmlns:db='jabber:server:dialback' xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' to='ejabberd21.xmpptest.com' from='mlinktrunk.xmpptest.com' version='1.0'>

(13:26:35) Recv (155)
<?xml version='1.0'?><stream:stream xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' xmlns='jabber:server' xmlns:db='jabber:server:dialback' id='855227178'>


[13:33:18] <Dave Cridland> I get TLS inbound, but not outbound.
[13:33:28] <Kev> badlop: ^
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[13:39:33] <fippo> while wondering why I did not fail I found a bug :-)
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[13:42:25] <Dave Cridland> Wow, you get bugs too?
[13:43:38] <fippo> I did not assume that tls would be only used in one direction and not in the other
[13:43:56] <fippo> we should get rid of this unidirectional nonsense, that just makes life harder :-)
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[14:00:15] <Dave Cridland> Okay, so my CRL checking is now working.
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[14:39:05] <emilio.pozuelo> o/
[14:39:22] <zash> \o
[14:39:30] <emilio.pozuelo> so I'm testing contact search (XMPP 055) on mlinktrunk.xmpptest.com, but I get this error from telepathy-gabble
[14:39:38] <emilio.pozuelo> server is broken: <x> not type='form'
[14:39:50] <Kev> If anyone wants to test against the 'bad' servers, (mismatchcert|revokedcert|selfcert).xmpptest.com are all up. selfcert isn't yet.
[14:40:18] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Ah, okay... Can you tell me what XML you're seeing?
[14:41:33] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: http://people.collabora.co.uk/~pochu/gabble-log-mlinktrunk.xmpptest.com.log
[14:42:19] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: with our server I didn't get that error (though I got no results): http://people.collabora.co.uk/~pochu/gabble-search-debug.log
[14:42:27] <fippo> Kev: what are we supposed to do with in todays setup?
[14:42:44] <fippo> with those
[14:42:47] <Kev> Nothing.
[14:43:03] <Kev> That was purely for if people wanted to have a play in advance of tomorrow.
[14:43:53] <fippo> Kev: I wondered if they should fail for todays test, too
[14:44:06] <Kev> No, they should all pass for today's tests.
[14:44:21] <Kev> Or, rather.
[14:44:40] <Kev> With today's configuration, they should all connect. I don't think it's important to test that they do, though.
[14:45:23] <fippo> I tend to disagree when it comes to the mismatched cert :-)
[14:47:43] <Kev> fippo: Right, the point of today was to check that all servers 'can do TLS', and the point of tomorrow is to check that they 'can do TLS right'.
[14:47:56] <Kev> The point of today wasn't really to test that the 'can do TLS wrong'.
[14:48:17] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: do you see anything wrong on the server side, or do you think the client is wrong when reporting that error?
[14:48:34] <wjt> the type='' attribute is missing from the <x xmlns='...data'/> element returned by the server
[14:48:36] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Hang on, be with you in a sec.
[14:49:50] <emilio.pozuelo> wjt: aha, I see
[14:50:45] <wjt> <xs:attribute name='type' use='required'>
[14:50:49] <wjt> so mlink is violating XEP-0004
[14:51:22] <Dave Cridland> I am the violator. Muahahaha. Etc.
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[14:51:53] <fippo> Kev: aye. That reminds me that next time i'll bring a server which will fail unless you send a tlsv1 client hello (good for making sure we don't have servers that do not get s2s-tls-compression)
[14:52:37] <wjt> how many of the test servers support in-band registration (as opposed to Dave-creates-an-account registration)? maybe emilio.pozuelo could try some others :)
[14:52:53] <Dave Cridland> fippo, You get compression with SSLv3 Hello, too.
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[14:53:02] <fippo> dave: :-p
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[14:55:45] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Yeah wjt's right, I'm not sending a type on that form.
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[14:56:44] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: ok. glad to have contributed my part to find a bug :)
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[15:00:42] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Should be fixed now. I think. :-)
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[15:02:00] <emilio.pozuelo> cool
[15:02:03] *emilio.pozuelo tries again
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[15:03:44] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: yay
[15:03:45] <emilio.pozuelo> :D
[15:04:10] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Works now?
[15:04:43] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: I get the form correctly now, not getting any results though
[15:05:09] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Ah... I thought it should be working. One sec, let me check the settings,
[15:05:11] <emilio.pozuelo> I'm searching for "a"
[15:05:23] <emilio.pozuelo> maybe it's not doing substring searches?
[15:05:26] <emilio.pozuelo> thanks
[15:05:39] <Kev> You need a wildcard for a substring search.
[15:05:46] <Dave Cridland> It's not, actually. That was intentional, but everyone seems to disagree with me. :-)
[15:05:55] <emilio.pozuelo> heh
[15:06:18] <Kev> Including me.
[15:06:19] <Dave Cridland> Also searchability default was set to off. So let's change that.
[15:06:41] <Kev> I'm dubious of the value of search systems that require you to know what the result will be before you can find it.
[15:06:42] <Dave Cridland> OK, that should have updated. Try searching for yourself.
[15:06:48] <Kev> :)
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[15:08:21] <zash> for char in {a..z}; do search $char*; done # userdb acquired
[15:09:31] <Kev> zash: There's an assumption that server admins aren't likely to be enabling this for global search on the Internet :)
[15:09:38] <Dave Cridland> zash, Nah, wouldn't find all the Russians.
[15:09:39] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: I cannot find myself, heh :)
[15:09:56] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Oh, bugger. I'll look after I've done the school run.
[15:10:14] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: sure. thanks!
[15:12:22] <Dave Cridland> Oh, that's annoying, sorry. It's finding people as an operator, so it';s a permissioning issue. I'll look into this properly in about an hour.
[15:13:34] <emilio.pozuelo> argh, none of the other servers seem to support XEP-0055
[15:13:51] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: ok. ping me when you've looked at it and I'll be happy to test again :)
[15:14:15] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, THey may do on a different service domain, though? M-Link's unusual in putting it on the actual IM domain.
[15:15:23] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: no idea... I'm trying the servers mentioned in http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Interop#2010_Server_Interop_Participation
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[15:17:39] <zash> at least ejabberd usualy has it on a subdomain, and prosody doesnt have it at all
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[15:18:30] <badlop> vjud.ejabberd21 works for local users, it has at least vcard of user "badlop", but fails over s2s due to missing dns i think
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[15:21:06] <badlop> Dave Cridland: I seem to be failing against ejabberd21 <-- fixed that problem, now it advertizes 1.0 and starttls feature
[15:22:36] <fippo> badlop: works for me with tls on both connections
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[15:24:08] <fippo> and fails with ssl2 :-)
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[15:47:07] <Dave Cridland> badlop, Brilliant, I'll retest in a sec.
[15:50:16] <Dave Cridland> [15:47:57] Ping?
[15:47:59] Pong! (2.39 s.)
[15:50:26] <Dave Cridland> \o/ ejabberd21 works. Now have a clean sweep.
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[15:53:20] <Kev> So that's everyone except Prosody, and I see we have a MattJ now, so hopefully that will follow.
[15:53:32] <MattJ> Indeed
[15:53:47] <MattJ> Sorry my presence is a bit sporadic, family member ill
[15:53:55] <Kev> Sorry to hear it.
[15:54:21] <MattJ> As long as I'm not coming down with it, I'll get the tests done shortly... :)
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[15:57:46] <steve.kille> Did we hear back from any other servers (I was thinking specifically of Openfire and Coversant)
[15:58:29] <sjoerd.simons@collabora.co.uk> steve.kille: i was unrelatedly talking to an openfire developer last week, he said they unfortunatly didn't have time to join the interop event this week
[15:58:50] <steve.kille> pity
[16:03:26] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, So, you can now find things in XEP-0055. SEarching for, for example "collabora" as the surname will find your account. Or search for "cridland", or "*a*" or whatever.
[16:04:06] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, But FWIW, there's a surname on every account in the system, thanks to the X.500 DSA that requires every person to have a surname.
[16:04:20] <wjt> I know someone who doesn't have a surname. :P
[16:04:59] <Dave Cridland> wjt, They cannot exist. X.500 is all-knowing.
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[16:07:27] <zash> Haha
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[16:08:21] <Dave Cridland> wjt, emilio.pozuelo - Can Gabble/Telepathy/Empathy do strong authentication, by the way?
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[16:08:42] <wjt> Dave Cridland: pass. I assume “strong” is a mechanism? :p
[16:08:48] <Dave Cridland> wjt, emilio.pozuelo - As in, can I give it a client certificate for use with TLS?
[16:09:07] <wjt> Sjoerd: ^^ you had a cunning plan for something related to this?
[16:09:18] <wjt> Dave Cridland: I don't thing so currently
[16:09:19] <Dave Cridland> wjt, Sorry, being all X.509y. X.509 defined two kinds of authentication "Simple" - username and password - and "Strong" - certificates.
[16:09:41] <Sjoerd> client certificates for autentication ? no we don't do that
[16:10:08] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: hmm, doesn't seem to be working yet :( http://fpaste.org/f3Dp/
[16:10:14] <emilio.pozuelo> this looks suspicious:
[16:10:15] <Dave Cridland> Does anyone else? (I know Swift does, and Gajim might)
[16:10:19] <emilio.pozuelo> gabble/connection-DEBUG: 09/12/10 17:07:01.372524: connection_iq_unknown_cb: got unknown iq:

[16:10:36] <fippo> dave: iirc, exodus supports it too
[16:10:49] <wjt> emilio.pozuelo: now that sounds like a gabble bug :)
[16:11:59] <emilio.pozuelo> wjt: will you look at it for me? :)
[16:12:00] <Sjoerd> mlink doesn't set type=result in the iq
[16:12:14] <wjt> nor it does. okay, not our bug again :D
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[16:12:35] <Dave Cridland> Wow. Okay, that's fun. I wonder why nothing else has spotted that one?
[16:12:35] <emilio.pozuelo> oh
[16:12:39] <Sjoerd> * x xmlns='jabber:x:data' type='result'
[16:12:46] <Sjoerd> seems like the attribute is added to the wrong node... ?
[16:12:58] <wjt> no, that's correct
[16:13:00] <Dave Cridland> Sjoerd, No, that's a form type. Meant to be there.
[16:13:03] <Sjoerd> ah ok
[16:13:20] *Sjoerd doesn't know data forms
[16:13:25] <Sjoerd> just seemed suspicious
[16:14:03] <Sjoerd> I'm gonna guess nobody noticed it because we're the only ones pedantic enough to both check type=result and the id matching instead of just matching the id?
[16:14:04] *wjt is out of here to do some anti-plague sleeping
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[16:14:37] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Ah! You're doing this from a remote account, right.
[16:15:07] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: yes, from a collabora.co.uk one
[16:15:16] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Not tried that much. So yes, you won't find much (because it's local-only by default) and yes, there is indeed a bug there. Use gabble@mlinktrunk.xmpptest.com password gabble
[16:15:22] <Kev> Sjoerd: Do you check the from= as well as type= and id=? I'm guessing you do, but just checking because you didn't mention it...
[16:15:51] <Sjoerd> Kev: we do
[16:15:59] <Kev> Jolly good :)
[16:16:05] <Dave Cridland> Sjoerd, It's because I think you're the first people to seriously use my '55 code remotely.
[16:16:17] <Sjoerd> fair enough ;)
[16:16:32] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: if you want you can open it for remote connections and I'll find all the bugs ;)
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[16:18:49] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Oh, it's certainly opened, but the problem is that the accounts aren't searchable by default from remote connections (ie, they won't appear in results)
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[16:20:04] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, It's done this way so that in an enterprise setting, everyone can be searchable locally, but some people (sales staff, perhaps) can be searchable remotely. Or so that a large public server could have a purely opt-in search.
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[16:21:07] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: oh, I see
[16:21:35] <emilio.pozuelo> so you can make people be searchable from the outside on a case by case basis?
[16:22:11] <Dave Cridland> Yes.
[16:22:21] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Controlled by an ad-hoc they can use.
[16:22:47] *Dave Cridland thinks standardizing the user prefs ad-hoc would actually be rather useful.
[16:22:55] <zash> Dave Cridland: nice
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[16:25:20] <emilio.pozuelo> Dave Cridland: so perhaps you can set a couple of test accounts to be searchable from the outside?
[16:27:12] <Dave Cridland> Try now.
[16:27:21] <emilio.pozuelo> with emilio.pozuelo ?
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[16:27:33] *** emilio.pozuelo shows as "online"
[16:27:41] <Dave Cridland> Actually, hang on, and I'll fix that bug.
[16:29:44] <Dave Cridland> OK. Remote searching should now work *and* have results. Search for a Family Name of *a*, for instance.
[16:30:29] *emilio.pozuelo tries
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[16:32:50] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, I agree re. user prefs - I plan to do the same thing in Prosody
[16:33:07] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, XEP-tastic, then. I'll draft something up.
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[16:35:00] <emilio.pozuelo> \o/ it works! :D
[16:35:10] <Dave Cridland> emilio.pozuelo, Thanks for the help.
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[16:36:52] <Kev> MattJ / Dave Cridland: The vague problem here is that user prefs really are ad-hoc, all servers are going to support different ones, I'd have thought.
[16:37:11] <Kev> Unless you're intending some 'more defined than ad-hoc, but still undefined' thing.
[16:37:27] <MattJ> Indeed, I don't think Prosody would define /any/ in core, it would depend on loaded modules
[16:37:53] <zash> Just a registry so people can use the name var-names ?
[16:38:06] <zash> for the same functions *
[16:38:13] <zash> (like muc config forms)
[16:38:13] <MattJ> That might work - for many of them
[16:38:14] <Dave Cridland> Kev, I'm not so sure. We can have a specific well-known command, so that clients can place it into the UI, much like vCard editing. And well-known field-names allow common options, even if servers also support others (and may not support those)
[16:39:18] <Kev> Just having the user config commands on a different node from server admin commands would be fairly nice.
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[16:40:57] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Oh, forgot to ask - prosody8 - S2S 198 enabled?
[16:41:20] <MattJ> eh, no - dare I? I wonder :)
[16:42:08] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Worth a go, I think. mlinktrunk should work with it.
[16:42:58] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, And if we spin up a Swift on both prosody8 and mlinktrunk, that'd mean we could have an end-to-end 198 chat.
[16:43:06] <MattJ> :)
[16:46:02] <Dave Cridland> Simon Josefsson, You about?
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[16:51:42] <MattJ> Bouncing prosody8
[16:52:10] <MattJ> Should have 198 now
[16:52:30] <MattJ> Signing in with Swift
[16:52:37] *Kev cheers
[16:53:32] <MattJ> Actually I think I ought to update it first
[16:53:38] <MattJ> Locked up on sign-in :)
[16:53:45] <MattJ> Oh no, it's back
[16:54:01] <MattJ> Just acting oddly
[16:55:38] <MattJ> Aye, HEAD pre beta7 :)
[16:57:21] <Kev> Are you on something Ubuntuy?
[16:57:28] <Kev> If so, there are nightlies you could use.
[16:57:39] <Kev> Saves the effort of compiling it.
[16:57:51] <MattJ> Ooh, that would be nice
[16:58:02] <Kev> Lucid or Maverick?
[16:58:02] <MattJ> It does take an age to compile on here
[16:58:05] <MattJ> Lucid
[16:58:23] <Kev> deb http://swift.im/packages/ubuntu/lucid development main
[16:58:30] <Kev> https://www.swift.im/keys/packages.key
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[17:00:34] <Dave Cridland> For the record, Simon Josefsson and I have just successfully interop tested SCRAM-SHA1-PLUS with channel bindings.
[17:00:42] <MattJ> Nice :)
[17:00:46] <Dave Cridland> remko, Kev - time to update Swift to do Channel bindings too?
[17:00:59] <MattJ> Tobias is working on channel binding, but not ready yet
[17:01:28] <MattJ> !slap Kev
[17:01:28] *Kanchil slaps Kev with large trout
[17:01:49] <remko> btw, swift beta8 will not do the tls checking
[17:02:06] <MattJ> I have terminals in one workspace, and chat clients on another
[17:02:24] <remko> neither do the development versions btw, i commented the check, because we need a gui for trusting a cert
[17:02:25] <MattJ> when I start any client from the terminal, I hit enter and switch to the right workspace
[17:02:37] <MattJ> Swift is the only one that appears before I can switch
[17:02:46] <Simon Josefsson> Thanks Dave. I'm going to do a stable GNU SASL release with SCRAM-SHA-1-PLUS in it now.
[17:02:53] <remko> MattJ: heh :)
[17:02:58] <zash> MattJ: dmenu!
[17:03:12] <remko> Dave Cridland: as soon as i understand what channel bindings are ;-)
[17:04:46] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, ok, matthew@prosody8.xmpptest.com is c2s and s2s 198-enabled
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[17:13:00] <Dave Cridland> remko, They're little leather straps to hold the channel in place.
[17:13:07] <Dave Cridland> remko, Very fashionable.
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[17:15:35] <remko> oo, sounds compelling
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[17:15:47] <remko> will this require us to use GNU SASL?
[17:15:53] <remko> or cyrus or whatever
[17:16:10] <zash> GNU SASL?
[17:16:23] <remko> any external SASL library
[17:16:39] <Dave Cridland> remko, No, Polymer implements its own, for instance.
[17:16:53] <remko> ic
[17:17:12] <Dave Cridland> remko, You just need to get the channel binding name for the TLS channel, which you do by getting the Finished messages from OpenSSL, basically.
[17:17:36] <remko> *nod*
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[17:22:01] <Dave Cridland> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5929#section-3 <- that's the channel binding code. SSL_get_finished() will do it if you're not doing session resumption.
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[17:34:13] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, OK, so admin@mlinktrunk.xmpptest.com sent you a subscription request. I see 198 enabling on S2S, and an ack coming back.
[17:35:19] <remko> Dave Cridland: cool, thanks
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[17:36:32] *MattJ frowns
[17:37:55] <MattJ> Swift stopped repainting for some reason, works again now
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[17:38:11] <MattJ> 198 is nice, makes me want to use it for my main account...
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[17:41:40] <Flo> +1
[17:41:44] <Kev> MattJ: You'll have to switch to Swift. Like you promised :)
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[17:47:53] <Asterix> ho! Are you going to do infidelity to Gajim? ;)
[17:48:14] <Dave Cridland> Asterix, We'll just add 198 to Gajim, don't worry.
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[17:50:07] <Asterix> :)
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[17:50:42] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Right, so I know what the issue was with our last test, now. M-Link doesn't request acks with every stanza, only when the link is idle - it's really hoping that you'll proactively ack stanzas, to reduce bandwidth.
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[17:51:44] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, well I won't :)
[17:51:46] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, So in our original tests, we simply never left the link idle for longer than a minute for M-Link to decide to requst an ack. The strategy works well for C2S links where there's traffic in both directions, but not so well on unidirectional S2S links.
[17:52:08] <MattJ> Right
[17:52:18] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Right - on unidirectional links there's little benefit, since you're never "writing anyway".
[17:52:19] <MattJ> and if you did resumption, this wouldn't be an issue
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[17:52:46] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, No, it'd still be an issue - we're building up a massive stash of unacked stanzas. :-)
[17:53:10] <MattJ> Not a protocol issue :)
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[17:53:46] <Dave Cridland> Right.
[17:54:00] <Dave Cridland> So, let me test that we are *ever* asking for acks...
[17:54:22] <Dave Cridland> There, we are. So I can fix this behaviour simply.
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[17:58:04] <Dave Cridland> OK, so that fix works.
[17:58:51] <Dave Cridland> So, Me <-- 198/C2S --> mlinktrunk <-- 198/S2S --> prosody8 <-- 198/C2S --> MattJ
[17:58:56] <Dave Cridland> Mission accomplished. :-)
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[17:59:06] <MattJ> I'd reply if Swift was responding :)
[17:59:35] <MattJ> I can't work out what it's up to
[17:59:54] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Oh. Kill it and make it work, otherwise it's a little tricky to describe this as an actual success.
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[18:01:19] <stpeter> hmph, I love it how certain services don't let you have passwords longer than 20 characters
[18:01:39] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, My gripes are usually the exact opposite.
[18:01:58] <stpeter> I create 28-character passwords
[18:02:01] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, "Please supply an unusual password that you cannot remember and will have to write down somewhere."
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[18:03:35] <stpeter> well, all for naught -- I can't log into Skype from my current location anyway ;-)
[18:03:55] <stpeter> how's the 198 interop?
[18:04:18] <zash> stpeter: \o/ skype must die! ;)
[18:04:19] <stpeter> I need to review the list threads and the submitted patch for that one
[18:04:24] <stpeter> zash: indeed
[18:05:38] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, Getting there.
[18:07:55] <zash> Is there tools for killing a TCP from under the server/client[s]?
[18:08:44] <Dave Cridland> zash, I used to have some. They were fun. I suppose I still could use those, by sitting on the router. In the good old days, people trusted RST packets wherever they actually came from, as long as the addresses looks okay.
[18:08:57] <Dave Cridland> Of course, when I say "good"...
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[18:45:39] <remko> right, let's see what this interop thing is all about
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[18:48:37] <MattJ> remko, you need an account on prosody8?
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[18:48:44] <remko> yes please
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[18:48:49] <MattJ> k
[18:48:59] <remko> well
[18:49:04] <remko> whatever prosody you want me to test against :)
[18:49:09] <MattJ> Done
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[18:59:31] <remko> prosody and mlink = success
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[19:00:52] <remko> seeing some interesting problems with notls and ejabberd, the interop is already a success :)
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[19:03:35] <steve.kille> Is someone going to write up the client results so far?
[19:03:48] <steve.kille> The client Wiki looks very blank
[19:03:54] <remko> i just started with swift
[19:04:00] <remko> i'm going to write it up when i'm done
[19:04:09] <steve.kille> lovely
[19:04:16] <steve.kille> Are you the only client?
[19:04:53] <zash> Asterix with Gajim too
[19:05:00] <remko> many others are subscribed at least
[19:05:05] <remko> the client stuff was only published today i think
[19:05:18] <remko> brb
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[19:05:30] <zash> and telepathy, and some other
[19:06:36] <Kev> remko: I put the up client tests yesterday morning at the same time as the server ones :)
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[19:20:46] <badlop> fippo: you asked yesterday:

[2010-12-08 22:30:30]<fippo> badlop: do you see any hints why a host named 'fippo.testing.openssl' is not offered tls (or version 1.0) from ejabberd21.xmpptest.com?
[19:20:59] <badlop> that works for me now, can you verify?
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[19:27:10] <fippo> badlop: works
[19:27:21] <badlop> ok, thanks
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[20:17:11] <remko> what's this notls.xmpptest.com about?
[20:17:26] <remko> is this a server, or are the servers in the subdomain?
[20:18:12] <Florob> remko, that's a server AFAIK.
[20:18:26] <remko> it's not serving the domain though
[20:18:39] <Kev> It's a server that MattJ hasn't set up yet.
[20:18:39] <remko> if i connect to notls.xmpptest.com, it says that it's not serving that domain
[20:18:43] <remko> ok
[20:18:55] <remko> interesting enough, this is triggering a bug :)
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[20:22:48] <remko> so, anyone from psyced or tigase around?
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[20:24:59] <fippo> remko: yep
[20:25:11] <remko> fippo: could i get an account on psyced?
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[20:25:47] <fippo> remko: sure, but unless swift does irc it won't be very useful :-)
[20:25:58] <remko> oh, is that an irc server
[20:25:59] <remko> my bad :)
[20:26:14] <remko> i was wonderng why i hadn't heard of it :)
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[21:10:45] *** badlop shows as "xa" and his status message is "Automáticamente ausente debido a inactividad"
[21:13:52] *** Zash has joined the room
[21:14:10] *** steve.kille shows as "online" and his status message is "28 GR"
[21:14:23] *** Asterix shows as "away" and his status message is "Away from keyboard"
[21:19:23] *** Asterix shows as "xa" and his status message is "idle"
[21:22:34] *** Simon Josefsson shows as "away"
[21:25:14] *** Simon Josefsson shows as "online"
[21:25:19] *** Asterix shows as "online"
[21:25:46] *** badlop shows as "online"
[21:26:55] *** Florob shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 15 Minuten)"
[21:29:39] *** Florob shows as "online"
[21:30:00] *** Zash shows as "online" and his status message is "Men dom är inte kvar, för de är borta."
[21:30:45] *** badlop shows as "away" and his status message is "Automáticamente ausente debido a inactividad"
[21:31:56] *** steve.kille shows as "away" and his status message is "28 GR"
[21:32:11] *** Asterix shows as "away" and his status message is "Away from keyboard"
[21:34:33] *** Tobias has joined the room
[21:37:06] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[21:37:11] *** Asterix shows as "xa" and his status message is "idle"
[21:38:10] *** Simon Josefsson shows as "away"
[21:39:36] *** Florian has joined the room
[21:40:45] *** badlop shows as "xa" and his status message is "Automáticamente ausente debido a inactividad"
[21:42:25] *** Asterix shows as "online"
[21:44:21] *** Simon Josefsson shows as "online"
[21:47:41] *** Asterix shows as "away" and his status message is "Away from keyboard"
[21:48:27] *** Asterix shows as "online"
[21:58:41] *** Asterix shows as "away" and his status message is "Away from keyboard"
[22:01:06] *** remko has left the room
[22:03:37] *** Asterix shows as "xa" and his status message is "idle"
[22:05:01] *** badlop shows as "online"
[22:10:58] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:11:45] *** Asterix shows as "online"
[22:16:14] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:24:50] *** badlop shows as "xa"
[22:26:14] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:27:03] *** Asterix shows as "away" and his status message is "Away from keyboard"
[22:32:03] *** Asterix shows as "xa" and his status message is "idle"
[22:33:36] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[22:36:51] *** Asterix shows as "online"
[22:41:33] *** Asterix shows as "xa" and his status message is "I'm going to sleep, see you tomorow"
[22:41:44] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:42:27] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[22:46:55] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[22:47:46] *** Florob has left the room
[22:48:13] *** Florob has joined the room
[22:48:24] *** Simon Josefsson shows as "away"
[22:51:44] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:52:12] *** steve.kille shows as "online" and his status message is "28 GR"
[23:02:12] *** steve.kille shows as "away" and his status message is "28 GR"
[23:02:34] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[23:05:27] *** Florob has left the room
[23:06:26] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[23:09:29] *** steve.kille shows as "online" and his status message is "28 GR"
[23:11:36] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being too idle"
[23:11:52] *** Tobias has left the room
[23:18:24] *** Simon Josefsson shows as "xa"
[23:19:57] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:28:46] *** stpeter has left the room
[23:33:41] *** steve.kille shows as "away" and his status message is "28 GR"
[23:39:42] *** Kev shows as "online"
[23:40:44] *** Zash shows as "chat" and his status message is "I MUPP THE WORLD!"
[23:41:01] *** Zash shows as "online"
[23:41:36] *** MattJ shows as "xa" and his status message is "Not available as a result of not being here"
[23:50:19] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:58:06] *** badlop has left the room