Friday, December 10, 2010
interop@muc.xmpp.org
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http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Verify | http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Interop

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[01:31:41] *** MattJ shows as "online"
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[01:44:58] <MattJ> Bouncing prosody8
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[01:47:27] <MattJ> fippo, awake?
[01:47:50] <MattJ> psyced-sasl doesn't like me
[01:48:25] <MattJ> Everything else seems to work
[01:49:13] *** Zash shows as "online"
[01:50:03] <MattJ> Dec 10 01:44:05 s2souta052b68 debug Received[s2sout_unauthed]: <success xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-sasl'>
Dec 10 01:44:05 prosody8.xmpptest.com:saslauth debug SASL EXTERNAL with psyced-sasl.xmpptest.com succeeded
[01:50:10] <MattJ> but I don't receive a pong
[01:51:03] <MattJ> Ah
[01:51:22] <MattJ> It would help if I trusted the interop CA cert, wouldn't it? :)
[01:55:52] <Zash> This host does not serve notls.xmpptest.com
[01:57:37] <Zash> notls.xmpptest.com. 3600 IN A 89.16.172.47
[01:57:39] <Zash> ^^
[01:57:42] <Zash> no srv
[01:58:09] <MattJ> Ah yes, thanks for reminding me
[01:58:25] <MattJ> !uptime matthewwild.co.uk
[01:58:34] <MattJ> !slap Kanchil
[01:58:34] *Kanchil slaps Kanchil with large trout
[01:59:04] <MattJ> Actually I don't need to restart
[02:01:15] <Zash> !version
[02:01:16] <Kanchil> Zash: Kanchil is running Riddim version alpha on an unknown platform
[02:16:14] <Zash> MattJ: btw, that reminds me, Riddim has no !uptime plugin yet
[02:16:21] <Zash> !slap MattJ
[02:16:21] *Kanchil slaps MattJ with large trout
[02:16:28] <Zash> And can do that ;)
[02:16:31] <MattJ> I'll have more time for even Riddim soon :)
[02:19:21] <Zash> Bot interop event! \o/ ... ;P
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[09:06:17] <Kev> Right then, Friday.
[09:06:36] <remko> and still need to set up the servers of thursday :)
[09:06:38] <Kev> So, today's plan. Make servers require TLS, and require trusted and valid certs.
[09:06:54] <Kev> And if MattJ hasn't done notls yet, that still needs doing.
[09:07:00] <Kev> remko: Just notls?
[09:07:30] <remko> yes, and i still need an account on tigase (Florian?)
[09:08:27] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
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[09:40:51] <Kev> So the failures machines are all in place apart from expiredcert, which is presenting the wrong cert (although it's also expired), and notls.
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[10:02:45] <steve.kille> Kev: I would have thought that expiredcert should be valid in every way, except that it has expired??
[10:03:05] <Kev> Yes.
[10:03:17] <Kev> That's why I said expiredcert isn't in place yet.
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[10:10:26] <steve.kille> ah yes - can parse your sentence now!
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[10:39:34] <Kev> expiredcert is in place now too.
[10:40:59] *** badlop shows as "online"
[10:41:12] <badlop> yes, and ejabberd connects using tls to all of them :S
[10:41:28] <Kev> Well, that's one up from connecting without TLS to them :)
[10:44:57] <Dave Cridland> Right, I'll give it a run though.
[10:46:16] <Kev> We still don't have notls, but that's largely just interesting for the clients^h testing.
[10:46:28] <Kev> Given that we have Tigase.
[10:46:35] <Kev> tigasetrunk, rather
[10:46:53] <steve.kille> why do we need notls in addition to Tigase?
[10:47:15] <Kev> steve.kille: It would be good to test it against an XMPP server not offering TLS, as well as the legacy protocol.
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[10:47:37] <Kev> But largely, it's so that the clients can test correct handling of not having TLS when PLAIN is the only available mech.
[10:49:37] <Dave Cridland> Okay, that's odd. I seem to be able to connect to everything except Tigase, and NoTls. So I suspect my settings are out, but I thought I'd checked them...
[10:50:14] <Kev> I haven't verified that the expired cert is actually expired, or that the revoked cert is actually revoked, mind.
[10:50:24] <Dave Cridland> It was yesterday.
[10:50:48] <Dave Cridland> And the expiredcert being expired forced us into using SodiumCA instead of OpenSSL to build the PKCS#12, if you recall.
[10:51:13] <Kev> Yes.
[10:53:03] <Dave Cridland> 12/10 10:44:39 xmppd 21382 (root ) I-MBOX-Info Verifying certificate
12/10 10:44:39 xmppd 21382 (root ) I-MBOX-Info certificate (subject emailA
ddress=xmpp@revokedcert.xmpptest.com,OU=XMPP Department,O=Your Organisation,L=Th
e Internet,C=GB,CN=revokedcert.xmpptest.com), detail (email=xmpp\\40revokedcert.
xmpptest.com,ou=XMPP Department,o=Your Organisation,l=The Internet,c=GB,cn=revok
edcert.xmpptest.com) error certificate has been revoked (unspecified reason)
12/10 10:44:39 xmppd 21382 (root ) N-MBOX-Notice TLS certificate verificat
ion failed
12/10 10:44:39 xmppd 21382 (root ) I-MBOX-Info successful setup of a recei
ving db connection from mlinktrunk.xmpptest.com to revokedcert.xmpptest.com

[10:54:05] *** remko shows as "online"
[10:54:35] <Dave Cridland> Right, so this is acting as if strong auth isn't required, which isn't right.
[11:04:08] *** Florian shows as "online"
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[11:16:08] <Dave Cridland> Re-running gives me the (internal) errors I'd expect. So we may have a bug with reloading, since I suspect the option simply didn't take.
[11:16:55] <Dave Cridland> SO I'm not getting a connection (TCP level) to fippo's psyced-db or psyced-dwd at the moment. I'll give those another go later.
[11:17:34] <Dave Cridland> Otherwise, prosody8, ejabberd21, mlinkrelease, psyced-sasl all work, the rest fail.
[11:18:16] *** remko shows as "away"
[11:18:28] <Dave Cridland> Okay, psyced-db now works, but -dwd still gives me a connection refused.
[11:18:44] <fippo> psyced-db works? it should not currently
[11:18:48] <fippo> as both -db and -dwd are down
[11:19:13] <Dave Cridland> 12/10 11:15:37 xmppd 21687 (root ) I-MBOX-Info Verifying certificate
12/10 11:15:37 xmppd 21687 (root ) I-MBOX-Info certificate (subject emailA
ddress=fippo@mail.symlynx.com,OU=hangtime department,O=hangtime,L=The Internet,C
=DE,CN=psyced-db.xmpptest.com) verified ok

[11:19:23] <Dave Cridland> Pretty sure it's the right server I'm talking to.
[11:19:34] <fippo> oh wait... my bad
[11:19:45] <fippo> it's supposed to be down
[11:20:36] <Dave Cridland> Okay. COnnecting securely to servers that aren't actually online would be quite a trick.
[11:22:07] <fippo> badlop: would you mind sending a from in the stream header?
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[11:35:22] <badlop> yes, show me an example of problematic stream header
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[11:52:59] <badlop> ok, patch applied and verified
[11:53:09] <fippo> thanks
[11:53:27] <badlop> yet another patch from interop to next release :)
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[11:54:46] <fippo> that might even increase the chance of using sasl on the public network from 5% to 15%
[11:55:19] <Tobias> heh
[11:56:24] <Dave Cridland> badlop, I've a bunch of those too, now.
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[11:57:25] *fippo too
[11:58:35] <Dave Cridland> fippo, Reminds me - you should be seeing tls as <required/> by mlinktrunk now?
[11:59:32] <Kev> I'd say that would justify claiming the interop week has been a success, then.
[12:00:20] <Dave Cridland> In as much as we've got most things to work and fixed a bunch of bugs.
[12:01:44] <fippo> and we have a better plan how to organize the next interop event
[12:02:35] <steve.kille> What might be test targets in the next event?
[12:03:57] <Dave Cridland> steve.kille, Well, we still have a day on this one. I'm aiming to spend this afternoon seeing if I can get XEP-0288 to work with fippo's servers.
[12:04:23] <fippo> dave: whoop!
[12:05:11] <steve.kille> \o/
[12:05:17] <Dave Cridland> fippo, DO you have a XEP-0288 that'll accept non-TLS connections from anywhere? It'll speed up my testing.
[12:05:32] <steve.kille> Are these extras getting recorded in the Wiki?
[12:05:42] <fippo> dave: i'll change the config of -dwd so it doesn't require tls
[12:06:07] *** tuomas shows as "xa"
[12:06:58] <fippo> dialback without dial-back worked quite well, too. So we just need someone to write it up :-)
[12:06:58] <Dave Cridland> steve.kille, The extras are getting recorded, but I've not written up the '198 testing that Matt and I did yesterday, mostly because I didn't stay to see it complete. But we certainly got close.
[12:07:10] <Dave Cridland> fippo, Yes. Don't you have a draft XEP?
[12:08:03] <Dave Cridland> fippo, I should have probably mentioned that mlinktrunk does dialback without dialback as well. I don't know if anyone actually used it, though.
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[12:10:28] <fippo> dave: i think psyced-db should have been using it the last two days
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[12:12:54] <Dave Cridland> fippo, Ah, good.
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[12:48:52] <Dave Cridland> Right. So it must be time to implement XEP-0288, then.
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[13:09:43] <Zash> !xep 288
[13:09:44] <Kanchil> Zash: XEP-0288: Bidirectional Server-to-Server Connections is Standards Track (Experimental, 2010-10-04) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0288.html
[13:10:21] <Zash> Yes, it's already a week old, clearly it's time to implement it!! :D
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[13:16:34] <will.thompson> Dave Cridland: your implementation of google:queue works perfectly. It did highlight that our keepalive pings are *way* too frequent though :p
[13:17:03] *** badlop shows as "online"
[13:18:21] <Tobias> google:queue?
[13:18:53] <Dave Cridland> Tobias, Evil closed standard thing. But a good idea, so I've implemented it and started to draft a XEP.
[13:18:54] <Bob (BJ)> Anyone care to give me an account on their server so I can test my client?
[13:19:24] <MattJ> Does google:queue have client-facing controls?
[13:19:25] <Tobias> Dave Cridland: is that draft already published as a XEP?
[13:19:31] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Yes,
[13:19:34] <Dave Cridland> Tobias, No.
[13:19:39] <Tobias> k
[13:19:40] <will.thompson> http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/summit/2010-February/000528.html
[13:19:51] <Dave Cridland> Tobias, I need to write up both Google's implementation and a more standardsish one.
[13:19:56] <MattJ> Oh well, I have an implementation minus any controls
[13:20:22] <will.thompson> we hacked it into Gabble for the N900. It's particularly important on GTalk because, unless you engage it, they whitespace-ping you every 30 seconds, so even if you have a sensible interval between pings... you still wake up all the time
[13:20:37] <MattJ> Heh
[13:20:41] <Tobias> ahh, this thing, i remember it now :)
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[13:23:14] *** badlop shows as "xa"
[13:23:15] <MattJ> Bob (BJ), xmpptest@prosody8.xmpptest.com, password xmpptest
[13:26:23] <MattJ> Kev, notls should be working since last night
[13:26:31] <Kev> Ah, gerat.
[13:26:34] <Kev> remko: ^
[13:26:51] <Bob (BJ)> You got an IP address for that. I don't seem to be able to resolve via DNS.
[13:27:02] <MattJ> Bob (BJ), does your client support SRV records?
[13:27:21] <MattJ> If not, interop failure #1 :)
[13:28:09] <will.thompson> Dave Cridland: ah, one catch. the version of Gabble on the N900 only looks for google:roster to trigger queue, not google:queue. (Google doesn't actually advertise the latter; I guess we only added that speculative check in a later version.) Annoying.
[13:28:13] *** remko shows as "away"
[13:28:59] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, fippo, anyone: any familiarity with "unhandled critical CRL extension"?
[13:30:15] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, I can ask the X.509 people. Any idea what the extension in question *is*?
[13:30:40] <MattJ> Looking at the certs, my suspicion is CRLissuer
[13:30:47] <MattJ> which is present in all the certs
[13:31:03] <MattJ> and OpenSSL prints <unknown> as its value when it prints the cert
[13:32:26] <Dave Cridland> I'll look into it - I suspect this is an issue with what Sodium's putting into the certs.
[13:32:35] <MattJ> Thanks
[13:32:46] <MattJ> How does it work for you? :)
[13:32:50] *** remko shows as "online"
[13:33:02] <MattJ> OpenSSL source comment:
[13:33:07] <MattJ> /* See if we have any critical CRL extensions: since we
* currently don't handle any CRL extensions the CRL must be
* rejected.
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[13:33:48] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, We don't use OpenSSL for CRL checking, so we'd be affected in entirely different ways (if at all).
[13:33:56] <MattJ> Ah, ok
[13:35:06] <Dave Cridland> So if it's complaining about the CRL itself, then it has to be the CRL, not the certs.
[13:35:28] <fippo> mattj: I can look into that when I found out who _removed_ my crl code
[13:36:05] <remko> Kev, MattJ: thanks, i'll see if i can't connect to notls tonight
[13:36:25] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, no, I think it's the certs
[13:36:26] <MattJ> let me check
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[13:36:55] <MattJ> Ah no, you may be right
[13:37:16] <Kev> remko: Well, you shouldn't be able to connect to it :)
[13:37:23] <remko> right
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[13:40:36] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Okay, so Sodium CA is inserting an extension into the CRL incorrectly.
[13:41:23] <MattJ> Yay
[13:42:30] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, If I understand correctly, the extension "MUST NOT" be there because the CRL is being issued directly by the CA, but as far as I can tell it's mandatory in every other case, so OpenSSL could run into issues potentially with other CAs.
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[13:44:24] <MattJ> So it seems
[13:44:45] <MattJ> You can disable the check (which is what I've done for now), but that's clearly not ideal :)
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[13:47:52] <fippo> mattj: verify error code 36?
[13:48:19] <MattJ> If that's X509_V_ERR_UNHANDLED_CRITICAL_CRL_EXTENSION, yes
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[13:48:53] <MattJ> Yes, 36
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[13:49:51] <fippo> I get that too (but at least revokedcert. fails properly
[13:50:08] <MattJ> but so do all the other certs, no?
[13:50:58] <fippo> yes, but revokedcert fails with X509_V_ERR_CERT_REVOKED at least
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[13:56:10] <MattJ> fippo, what version of OpenSSL are you using?
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[14:01:37] <fippo> mattj: it claims to be 0.9.8g but is probably debian pimped
[14:01:39] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, The only extension in the CRL itself that's critical is the Issuing DP - but that's optionally generated by Sodium CA. Just uncheck the box on the "Generate CRL..." dialog.
[14:02:16] <MattJ> Ok, thanks
[14:02:36] <MattJ> fippo, they changed the code in OpenSSL 1.x
[14:02:42] <MattJ> that comment now reads:
[14:02:45] <MattJ> /* The rules changed for this... previously if a CRL contained
* unhandled critical extensions it could still be used to indicate
* a certificate was revoked. This has since been changed since
* critical extension can change the meaning of CRL entries.
*/
[14:07:50] <Kev> So, is there anything people need of me today?
[14:08:05] <Kev> Is there anything else we should have on the test plan? I'm fairly comfortable with both the server and client tests.
[14:08:40] <MattJ> Looks fine
[14:09:01] <Kev> MattJ: Just checking - is notls set to only offer PLAIN?
[14:09:34] <MattJ> Aha, good point - Prosody won't offer PLAIN on unencrypted connections either
[14:09:44] <MattJ> I'll set it to offer just PLAIN
[14:10:10] <fippo> Kev: for the next time I have some dialback failures - but I need to write them up and think about how to test them
[14:10:23] <Kev> fippo: That'd be great, thanks.
[14:10:33] <Kev> We can start planning the tests for next time as soon as we're done here, if you want.
[14:12:36] <MattJ> We should set up more tricky DNS situations next time
[14:12:50] <Zash> mixed A and SRV?
[14:12:52] <MattJ> Like testing correct SRV target selection
[14:13:10] <Kev> That's hard, but sure.
[14:13:12] <MattJ> and IDNA
[14:13:13] <Zash> and make a SRV query return a CNAME ?
[14:13:22] <MattJ> Kev, it's not really hard, is it?
[14:13:26] <Kev> Zash: That's not an interesting test, I think.
[14:13:44] <Kev> Something working against invalid input isn't as interesting as it failing against valid :)
[14:13:57] <fippo> zash: I wanted to test that, but bind won't do it anymore
[14:14:15] <Kev> Or am I missing a security consideration why that's worth testing?
[14:15:37] *** Simon Josefsson shows as "xa"
[14:16:55] <Zash> Iduno, but I have a CNAME catch-all thingy :)
[14:17:06] *** steve.kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Office"
[14:18:37] <Zash> But IDN and IPv6
[14:18:45] <Kev> Both worth testing.
[14:19:13] <Dave Cridland> Zash, IDN with X.509 is particularly interesting. I know we fail that one right now.
[14:19:47] <fippo> IDN + x509 sounds like fun!
[14:19:50] <Zash> !ping nödåtgärd.se
[14:19:52] <MattJ> +1
[14:19:56] <Zash> aw
[14:19:58] <Kanchil> Zash: Pong from nödåtgärd.se in 7.021 seconds
[14:20:01] <MattJ> :D
[14:20:15] <MattJ> UTF8 processing overhead? :)
[14:21:12] <Kev> BTW Zash / MattJ, I upgraded Kanchil
[14:21:17] <Zash> !version
[14:21:17] <Kanchil> Zash: Kanchil is running Riddim version alpha on an unknown platform
[14:21:49] <Zash> Kev: You say?
[14:22:28] <MattJ> I guess I should go and fix verse, riddim and clix to squish with the latest Prosody repo
[14:22:42] <Zash> :)
[14:22:58] <Zash> Also, latest says "I am running .."
[14:23:17] <Kev> Zash: Well, I should have updated.
[14:23:25] <Kev> I certainly tried to.
[14:25:03] <MattJ> did you hg pull -u? :)
[14:25:22] <MattJ> I think git updates the working copy by default when you pull
[14:25:24] <MattJ> hg doesn't
[14:25:31] <Kev> Gotcha.
[14:25:36] <Zash> MattJ: git, true
[14:25:44] <MattJ> hg up
[14:25:56] <Zash> hg pull says you should do hg up iirc
[14:27:11] <MattJ> Bouncing prosody8
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[14:31:46] <MattJ> fippo, have you broken -db and -dwd? :)
[14:32:48] <MattJ> I can't see the stream header you send, but Prosody is rejecting your stream:features, with "unbound prefix"
[14:33:18] <fippo> mattj: -db is down and I just changed sth in -dwd (which is mostly for dave)
[14:33:33] <MattJ> Apt
[14:33:48] *Zash wants a SRV aware netcat :/
[14:34:09] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[14:34:12] <MattJ> Zash, "clix raw"
[14:34:15] <MattJ> kind of
[14:34:18] <fippo> mattj: -dwd should work again
[14:34:29] <fippo> (not sure how it behaves in that test though :-)
[14:34:37] <Zash> MattJ: ohrly
[14:34:54] <MattJ> Zash, it does XMPP auth for you, then acts as telnet
[14:35:11] <Zash> MattJ: But, for testing non-xmpp things :)
[14:35:20] <MattJ> How would SRV help then? :)
[14:35:21] <Dave Cridland> (14:32:34) Send (217)
<?xml version='1.0'?><stream:stream xmlns='jabber:server' xmlns:db='jabber:server:dialback' xmlns:stream='http://etherx.jabber.org/streams' to='psyced-dwd.xmpptest.com' from='puncture.dave.cridland.net' version='1.0'>

(14:32:34) Recv (222)
<stream:features><starttls xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-tls'/><switch xmlns='http://switch.psyced.org'><scheme>psyc</scheme></switch><dialback xmlns='urn:xmpp:features:dialback'><errors/></dialback></stream:features>

(14:32:34) Send (102)
<stream:error><bad-format xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-streams'/></stream:error></stream:stream>


[14:35:33] <fippo> dave: fixed already
[14:36:24] <Dave Cridland> fippo, No, still like that.
[14:36:59] <MattJ> +1
[14:37:20] <fippo> ah... restarted the wrong server
[14:37:24] <MattJ> Heh
[14:37:38] <MattJ> I'm terrified I'm going to bounce prosody.im by mistake before the day is out
[14:38:11] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Yeah, I'm glad I'm far, far away from isode.com.
[14:38:19] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[14:44:55] <MattJ> Bouncing prosody8, this time with mod_dialback unloaded just to make sure :)
[14:49:04] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, M-Link does dialback even with EXTERNAL?
[14:49:40] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, I just noticed that. :-)
[14:53:15] *** will.thompson shows as "away" and his status message is "sniffle."
[14:53:16] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, But the answer si that M-Link doesn't really overly care about how it authenticates to you, or indeed how you want to authenticate to it - it'll just care that it can authenticate you.
[14:54:15] <MattJ> You mean as long as I have a valid cert I could say <message><body>Hey, I'm prosody.im</body></message>? :)
[14:54:50] <MattJ> if I remove dialback from the stream header will it use EXTERNAL?
[14:55:43] *** will.thompson shows as "online" and his status message is "sniffle."
[14:55:55] <Dave Cridland> It will. But I've swapped around the processing order for features, so I'll update it shortly to use EXTERNAL.
[14:56:04] <MattJ> ok
[15:00:37] <MattJ> There's something up
[15:00:50] <MattJ> I'm not getting any pongs for my pings to mlinktrunk
[15:01:01] <MattJ> but Prosody reckons both s2s streams are up and running
[15:01:44] <Dave Cridland> I just bounced it, actually.
[15:02:06] <Dave Cridland> Now supporting a (very weakly tested) XEP-0288 Bidi.
[15:02:50] <Dave Cridland> As well as (I think) preferring to do EXTERNAL over dialback. Although that's obviously slower, so perhaps I should switch back.
[15:03:23] <MattJ> Eh? :)
[15:03:36] <Dave Cridland> EXTERNAL has more round-trips.
[15:03:45] <MattJ> Are you sure?
[15:04:06] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, With d-w-d, then yes.
[15:04:17] <MattJ> Cheat
[15:04:32] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, You say "cheat", I say "optimized".
[15:04:57] <MattJ> I'm still getting no pong
[15:06:24] *** Simon Josefsson shows as "online"
[15:07:07] <MattJ> Maybe it's my fault, same with ejabberd
[15:07:18] <fippo> I still get pongs from trunk
[15:07:49] <Dave Cridland> Just bouncing it to clear everything, then I'll try.
[15:11:15] <Dave Cridland> OK, something really odd going on... I've got to do the school run again, but we'll figure it out when I get back.
[15:11:21] <MattJ> k
[15:13:00] <MattJ> The world falls apart without dialback :)
[15:13:17] <fippo> it doesn't without EXTERNAL :-)
[15:13:22] <MattJ> Quite :)
[15:13:35] <fippo> so the path is clear
[15:13:39] <MattJ> Plus d-w-d should be trivial to implement
[15:13:47] <fippo> btw: if you're bored you could implement bidi
[15:13:57] <MattJ> I'd like to get 198 working first
[15:13:59] <MattJ> then I shall
[15:14:28] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Most of my bidi implementation time was thinking "But that can't be all it is..."
[15:14:49] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, I do think it should be really easy to implement, especially in Prosody
[15:15:06] <MattJ> all our code sends stanzas to the the incoming s2s stream
[15:15:14] <MattJ> just Prosody redirects it at the last minute
[15:15:21] <MattJ> bidi would just turn off the redirection
[15:16:02] <fippo> dave: same for me
[15:16:46] <fippo> there is a tricky thing about not sending db:verify on the same connection where I am not sure if this works as expected - but you should not have that problem
[15:16:53] <fippo> since you're doing dialback-3
[15:19:31] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
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[16:18:50] *** Florob shows as "online"
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[16:24:02] <Dave Cridland> OK, I think I've fixed that issue.
[16:25:35] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, You should be able to ping me now. Turns out that once it'd done the stream restart, it basically sat waiting, instead of deciding the stream was setup.
[16:27:23] <MattJ> Dialback is enabled again so I can test 198
[16:27:30] <MattJ> it should be enabling on outgoing streams now
[16:28:16] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, I'm doing EXTERNAL again, or should be.
[16:29:03] <Dave Cridland> Just bouncing that server yet again - I've been meaning to apply a patch that should stop an irritating crash.
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[16:40:01] <Dave Cridland> Oh, gosh, that's odd. :-)
[16:40:27] <Dave Cridland> So, I'm now doing EXTERNAL again, and actually carrying on, only I'm *also* doing dialback. Whoops. :-)
[16:41:35] <MattJ> :)
[16:44:28] *** Kev shows as "away"
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[16:46:34] *** Kev shows as "online"
[16:59:46] <Dave Cridland> *sigh* I'm still doing that. Which is very annoying. But on the plus side, you're still not enabling 198, so I don't feel quite so bad.
[17:00:48] <stpeter> heh
[17:01:36] <fippo> dave: the solution is to remove any EXTERNAL related code :-)
[17:01:38] *** Zash shows as "away"
[17:03:25] <Dave Cridland> fippo, I know, I know. I'll make it an option, soon enough.
[17:03:39] <Dave Cridland> fippo, But the standard says we must, so we must.
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[17:06:29] *** remko has left the room
[17:06:36] *stpeter prepares to submit revised versions of 3920bis and xmpp-address
[17:06:58] *** Zash shows as "online"
[17:07:00] <steve.kille> Dave Cridland/fippo - sounds like the standards need fixing
[17:07:38] <steve.kille> We have way too many handshakes as it, and getting rid of the SASL handshakes for single connection secure S2S sounds like a senisilbe standardization objective
[17:07:56] *** remko has joined the room
[17:07:56] <steve.kille> stpeter: what do you think?
[17:07:57] <Dave Cridland> steve.kille, Not so much fixing, as we need to document d-w-d properly, and ensure that it's perceived as acceptable.
[17:08:01] *** remko shows as "online"
[17:08:30] <stpeter> I think I don't want to make more changes to 3920bis at this moment for feature of introducing too many perturbations late in the process :)
[17:08:43] <steve.kille> Althought helpful now, I am not sure the d-w-d name will be helpful long term
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[17:09:18] <Dave Cridland> Ah, success. Now only authenticating once.
[17:09:31] <stpeter> but I suggest that we complete more interop testing over the next 12 months, submit an implementation report based on the feature set in 3920bis, then rev the document again (hopefully after we have the address format fixed)
[17:10:36] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, So, I'm now fixed. Are you waiting until you've got a resource bound before enabling 198? That might be problematic on S2S.
[17:10:48] *** remko has joined the room
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[17:10:54] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[17:11:15] <steve.kille> stpeter: sounds like a reasonable plan to me
[17:12:36] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, hmm, I don't think so - hold
[17:12:56] <stpeter> there are enough changes between 3920 and 3920bis that I think continued interop testing and deployment feedback will be productive
[17:13:13] <stpeter> while we work in parallel on those thorny internationalization issues
[17:13:32] <MattJ> stpeter, I suspect future versions might (reference a) document about dialback-without-dialback :)
[17:14:03] <steve.kille> can we have a new name for it?
[17:14:22] <MattJ> dwd is good, isn't it Dave? :)
[17:14:23] <stpeter> MattJ: that would be good, I think -- based on what little I've read about it, which is only Dave's blog post
[17:14:37] <MattJ> I don't think anyone else has had a XEP named after them before
[17:15:05] <fippo> dave: actually, what would happen if I tried to do EXTERNAL twice on a single stream (i.e. multiple authentications)?
[17:15:08] <MattJ> I need to figure out what protocol mattj is an acronym for
[17:15:37] *** Dave Cridland shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[17:16:14] *stpeter has been tempted to define an extension whose acronym is "PSA" :)
[17:16:58] <MattJ> !xep 198
[17:16:59] <Kanchil> MattJ: XEP-0198: Stream Management is Standards Track (Draft, 2010-03-05) See: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0198.html
[17:19:39] *** Zash shows as "away"
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[17:21:19] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, missing xmlns declaration - looks a lot healthier now
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[17:26:29] *** Dave Cridland shows as "online"
[17:27:07] <Dave Cridland> fippo, We'd drop the stream.
[17:29:00] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Ew.... I've just noticed I'm requesting acks even when I'm only writing to the stream to ack... That's nasty. I'll fix that.
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[17:29:39] *** Florob shows as "online"
[17:29:39] *** Florob shows as "online"
[17:29:39] *** Florob shows as "online"
[17:29:39] *** Florob shows as "online"
[17:29:39] *** Florob shows as "online"
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[17:33:08] <fippo> Dave: damn - but that would only allow to negotiate multiple source domains anyway
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[17:34:52] <MattJ> Hmm
[17:34:52] *** Asterix shows as "xa" and his status message is "idle"
[17:35:37] <MattJ> Someone doing piggybacking asking for another remote domain - I'm not sure I'd considered that
[17:36:55] <fippo> mattj: "target piggybacking"? haven't seen that outside my lab
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[18:44:02] <Dave Cridland> Oops. My experiment with source piggybacking is not going all that well.
[18:44:21] *** Kev shows as "away"
[18:44:44] <Dave Cridland> I seem to be piggybacking my MUC domain around 6 times a second.
[18:45:01] <Dave Cridland> Does that make it the authentication stronger?
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[18:45:51] <MattJ> :)
[18:45:58] <MattJ> Did you get my responses to your 198 message(s)?
[18:47:47] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Yes, but they came through to my Gajim, of course.
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[18:57:57] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, so all is well?
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[20:47:51] *** Asterix shows as "online"
[20:47:52] *** badlop shows as "online"
[20:49:21] *badlop is halfway implementing cert verification in ejabberd, and hopes the
(notls|expiredcert|mismatchcert|revokedcert|selfcert).xmpptest.com
servers will be up a pair of days more

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[20:54:21] *** badlop shows as "away" and his status message is "Automáticamente ausente debido a inactividad"
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[21:00:20] <fippo> badlop: selfsigned should be easy to find on public servers - CN=ejabberd is the most common certificate :-)
[21:00:37] <MattJ> :)
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[21:01:17] <MattJ> Feel free to shoot on sight the admin of any server with CN="Prosody Example Certificate", that's expired, and self-signed
[21:01:27] <MattJ> except for me
[21:02:53] <Zash> Hah
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[21:09:21] *** badlop shows as "online"
[21:13:22] <MattJ> Wait... ejabberd doesn't do EXTERNAL already?
[21:13:33] <MattJ> I was sure it did
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[21:17:02] <fippo> no, it gets offered external but does not do use it yet
[21:17:32] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, I thought it did too - I'm sure I remember testing mine against jabber.org when it was ejabberd.
[21:17:45] <MattJ> There was someone in jabber@ once
[21:17:54] <MattJ> They ran a public server using ejabberd
[21:18:23] <Dave Cridland> Your poetry is useless. Doesn't even rhyme.
[21:18:25] <MattJ> They were doing some testing on their laptop, and span up a test instance with their user db
[21:18:31] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:19:01] <MattJ> behind a firewalled NAT, they claimed their ejabberd instance had sent out unsubscribes on behalf of their domain
[21:19:19] <MattJ> they had the certs configured on their laptop, we put it down to EXTERNAL
[21:24:21] *** badlop shows as "xa" and his status message is "Automáticamente ausente debido a inactividad"
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[21:27:05] *** Asterix shows as "online"
[21:38:31] *** Tobias shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[21:39:21] *** badlop shows as "online"
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[21:41:38] *** steve.kille shows as "online" and his status message is "Home for the Weekend"
[21:44:21] *** badlop shows as "away" and his status message is "Automáticamente ausente debido a inactividad"
[21:45:57] <fippo> mattj: you still want to update the wiki
[21:46:06] <MattJ> Mmm, yes
[21:46:27] <MattJ> I didn't conclude my testing because of the number of issues I had when I stopped advertising dialback :)
[21:46:39] <MattJ> Maybe I just shouldn't do that
[21:46:41] <MattJ> Heh
[21:47:21] <fippo> yeah... I wonder if I should have failed ejabberd actually...
[21:47:50] <fippo> but it was worthy enough to get offered external
[21:48:12] <fippo> I guess that is one of the points we should specify more cleary next time
[21:48:49] *fippo wonders if we will have to test xep-0238
[21:48:57] <MattJ> Any 1.0 server capable of TLS can be offered external
[21:49:09] <MattJ> and TLS was tested yesterday, no? :)
[21:49:39] *** Florob shows as "away" and his status message is "Away due to inactivity for more than 5 min (Previous status: )"
[21:49:48] <fippo> well... xep 0178 has this "only offer it if it will succeed" rule
[21:50:13] <MattJ> Sure, but that's not a function of the implementation, but of the cert it uses
[21:50:18] <fippo> which is good because if the peer attempts external and this fails this will increase roundtrips
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[22:10:20] <Dave Cridland> fippo, Right, I have a slightly better variant on my source-piggybacking attempt - can I point it at (one of the) psyced-* servers to test?
[22:14:55] *** Asterix shows as "xa" and his status message is "I'm going to sleep, see you tomorow"
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[22:22:38] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "linking hell again :/"
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[23:32:18] *** Dave Cridland shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[23:44:09] *** MattJ shows as "online"
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[23:57:32] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "linking hell again :/"
[23:57:47] *** Tobias shows as "xa" and his status message is "watchin' a movie"
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