jdev - 2019-09-18

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07:25:53 lovetox_ since my kid was born my average coding speed is, 10 lines / 3 days
07:28:10 Ge0rG lovetox_: increase the output by teaching your kid to code :)
07:29:24 lovetox_ thats the plan, but he is a bit selfish right now, cares only about eating and sleeping
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07:51:39 jonas’ lovetox_, congrats, I guess?
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10:08:10 MattJ lovetox_: congrats! Nearly three months for me and it's not much better :)
10:11:48 lovetox_ omg
10:19:29 Holger 10 years over here, still not much better.
10:19:50 Holger I do get more sleep though than back then :-)
10:24:01 Link Mauve It really sounds like hell, I don’t see myself ever wanting to get into that mess. :x
10:27:27 pep. Yeah you're really not good at selling it
10:29:54 MattJ I think it would be fair to say that if you're on the fence, don't :)
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11:16:53 marc0s > I do get more sleep though than back then :-) Agree, I'm amazed how early can I go now to bed. 6yo and 3yo here and difficult to get anything done... Unless skipping sleep, which as said is lot harder now :)
11:22:55 lovetox_ i get so tired in the evening, i look at the same line of code 5 minutes and have to think about what i wanted to do with it. So i go to bed because its not productive anyway
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11:32:06 jonas’ what if both are on the fence, think they might be happy either way but still can’t decide?
11:52:44 Ge0rG We are approaching a time of many crises. You should train your kids in prepping, survival and self-defense.
11:54:01 pep. "How to train your dragon" might be appropriate material for this
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11:58:00 Ge0rG pep.: the animated movie?
11:58:46 pep. Yeah. End of the world, dragons etc..
12:00:26 Ge0rG I haven't seen it as an apocalypse movie, need to rewatch, apparently.
12:01:03 Zash s/End/Edge/ ?
12:01:07 pep. Not an apocalypse movie, but useful material to know how to ride dragons in case of..
12:01:18 Ge0rG pep.: in case of... what?
12:01:47 Ge0rG In the case that refugees from adverse weather events become mutated monsters?
12:02:02 pep. For example
12:02:40 Ge0rG There was a book by Max Brooks.
12:02:46 pep. Seems like a reasonable skill to have in thus case no?
12:03:03 pep. Seems like a reasonable skill to have in this case no?
12:03:31 Ge0rG I'm sure this is something a 6 year old will appreciate now, but maybe not something a 36 year old will appreciate in 30 years
12:03:57 pep. You're too grumpy
12:04:26 pep. But we knew that already :p
12:05:14 Ge0rG pep.: I'm trying to give useful advice.
12:05:47 Ge0rG If you decide to have kids, despite the global-political and climate landscape, prepare them for what is to come.
12:06:28 pep. Yeah.. I got that bit. /me still hopes for dragons to show up
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16:50:38 allie poor hurricane people 😔 I know first hand what that's like
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21:23:14 lovetox weird, do i read this correctly
21:23:15 lovetox https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html#table-3
21:23:27 lovetox this table means a owner cant kick a admin out of a room
21:23:32 lovetox as both are role moderators
21:23:40 lovetox and moderators can only kick participants and visitors
21:24:28 lovetox this whole role/affiliation separation is only complicated
21:24:33 lovetox i dont really see the benefit
21:25:42 lovetox or lets say i dont see the benefit of role moderator
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21:26:30 lovetox its basically a admin on a timer
21:26:43 lovetox never saw any room use that ever
21:27:56 Zash I think it has come in handy at some point, to quickly increase the number of mods
21:28:36 lovetox how has this something to do with quick? i can also add someone quick to a admin list
21:29:32 lovetox the use case is: i want to make you moderator but only until you disconnect
21:29:42 lovetox when do i need that ever..
21:30:11 lovetox im thinking about not supporting that use case anymore in Gajim
21:30:23 lovetox makes everything only complicated, without any real benefit
21:30:46 lovetox if you want someone that can give voice to people and kick participants, just make him admin
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21:49:52 allie can admin remove the person who gave them admin, though?
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21:54:13 MattJ lovetox: I wouldn't blame you for not supporting it. Also see the table here: https://docs.modernxmpp.org/client/groupchat/#terminology
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22:35:10 lovetox yes allie
22:35:36 allie but a moderator couldn't?
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22:36:19 lovetox a moderator can not set affiliations
22:36:27 lovetox moderator is a role
22:36:35 lovetox a moderator can kick someone or give him voice
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22:37:17 lovetox admin is permanent
22:37:37 lovetox if a moderator kicks an admin out of a room, admin can just join again
22:37:55 lovetox moderator cant ban someone or remove the affiliation (admin)
22:38:30 lovetox moderator is basically only there to give people voice and kick someone
22:38:53 allie I was just thinking maybe it was if you wanted someone to help moderate the discussion, but didn't want to give them admin powers beyond what was needed for moderation
22:39:25 lovetox yes allie i think thats what people thought about when doing this
22:39:43 lovetox but really no one is using that
22:40:06 lovetox also roles are gone if you leave the room
22:40:14 lovetox if i make you moderator and you rejoin the room
22:40:19 lovetox i have to make you moderator again
22:40:28 allie yah
22:40:36 Zash Its modelled after IRC + chanserv
22:40:56 lovetox its really a subtle difference, and i would argue most people dont care about the difference between admin and moderator
22:41:31 lovetox MattJ, yeah i saw that, but this is only about displaying
22:42:13 lovetox its much work to have all the logic what role and affiliation can do what in what situation
22:42:42 lovetox if i want to make it good that is, i could offer the buttons to every role, and just let the MUC deal with throwing errors if its not allowed
22:43:16 lovetox but i want to show only the buttons that are correct in a specific situation, if you click on a contact in a muc
22:43:31 lovetox and you are admin, you should not see the option to make that contact owner
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23:36:10 pep. "i want to show only the buttons that are correct in a specific situation, [..] you should not see the option to make that contact owner", I'm not saying there's wrong or right answer, but sometimes for consistency you might want to display a button: disabled, saying what the requirements are for that button to appear enabled on hover for example.
23:36:50 pep. It happens so often that I'm really confused why I can't find an option anymore and then I realize I was missing some precondition, now I've lost 30mn, poked 3 people about it, opened an issue
23:38:05 pep. (and +30mn for going through the code to understand the logic)
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