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Ge0rG
Now how do I display this DOAP thing properly?
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wurstsalat
Link Mauve ^
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, what is your wanted rendering thingy?
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Link Mauve
Something like that? https://pulkomandy.github.io/xmpp-doap/samples/movim.xml
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: yes
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Link Mauve
Something like that? https://linkmauve.fr/extensions/xep-0048.xml
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: I've forked your xmpp-doap repo and included the style, but it doesn't show the table content
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, then just use the linked XSLT style sheet, by viewing source.
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, this was PulkoMandy’s.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: I can't do that on a local file :(
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Link Mauve
Maybe it isn’t fully up to date with the latest format?
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, oh?
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Ge0rG
yeah, local files are a separate security domain
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Link Mauve
Indeed, it isn’t up to date.
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Link Mauve
I can fix that.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: can we also get the XEP titles in there?
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Ge0rG
Ideally, I'd also just have `<XEP-0077/>` instead of `<xmpp:xep rdf:resource="https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html" /><xmpp:xep rdf:resource="https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html" />`
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, the XEPs don’t have any semantic document thingy we could use to extract the names from.
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Link Mauve
Also <XEP-0077/> isn’t valid RDF.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: there used to be an XML file listing all that.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: that was a placeholder for whatever the shortest possible syntax is
- Ge0rG is a proponent of zero-boilerplate
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Ge0rG
No idea how I ended up with XMPP
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, syntax doesn’t matter here.
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Link Mauve
Semantic web parsers already exist, and reusing one is much less work than writing a parser from scratch.
- Ge0rG closes VIM
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Link Mauve
I had a much shorter syntax at first, but it wouldn’t be compatible with existing DOAP software.
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Ge0rG
So syntax *does* matter? ;)
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Ge0rG
anyway, this is just minor nitpicking.
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, I mean, shorter syntax doesn’t matter.
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Ge0rG
I want to get this thing going, and that means I need to render it locally
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pep.
Ultimately you can have something generating your doap file :p
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: what would you need to allow XEP name resolution?
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Ge0rG
pep.: I had some*body* generate it.
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pep.
Ge0rG: good first step
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, you can use xsltproc from libxslt to generate a HTML file from the CLI.
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, hmm, a deeper understanding of how XSLT works.
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Link Mauve
Also since there is a Python version nowadays (see https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/594) it could be done much easier.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: xsltproc shows the same output as chrome. Your style must be b0rken
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Ge0rG
I thought you had the bestest changes, but now...
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Link Mauve
It’s not mine, complain to PulkoMandy.
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Ge0rG
> Resource interpreted as Stylesheet but transferred with MIME type application/xslt+xml: "file:///usr/src/yaxim/xmpp-doap/style.xsl". Is that bad?
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Ge0rG
Maybe my XML is b0rked? https://op-co.de/tmp/yaxim.doap.xml
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Ge0rG
ah, yes it is.
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Zash
> The requested URL /style.xsl was not found on this server.
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Ge0rG
Zash: it's all horrible!
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Zash
XSLT is pretty cool
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Ge0rG
but it was <implements> instead of <xmpp:supports>
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Zash
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0199.xml
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: is <xmpp:version> the XEP version, and <xmpp:since> the application version?
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Ge0rG
This is super-confusing.
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pep.
Yeah that's the semantics
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pep.
Suggestions?
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/pull/6
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, yes, version and since have this semantic, as you can see in the OWL schema.
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, https://linkmauve.fr/ns/xmpp-doap
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Daniel
what do i need to get started with doap? is there a good sample file including style file and everything?
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Link Mauve
Daniel, easiest would be to start from one of the ones linked from here: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/594
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Zash
Link Mauve https://hg.prosody.im/trunk/raw-file/tip/doc/doap.xml
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Daniel
Link Mauve, but that doesn’t do the rendering
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pep.
Board meeting with doap stuff is today right
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Link Mauve
Daniel, rendering would be up to consumer services, such as xmpp.org, JabberFR’s wiki, some random comparison table, etc.
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Daniel
right. i'm just looking for something that makes writing easier
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Link Mauve
Zash, hmm, the format changed to better match DOAP since then.
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Daniel
and verify that i did everything correctly
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Link Mauve
Zash, see https://lab.louiz.org/poezio/poezio/commit/31c605528c0ad8b22d617073fb2e1722b82fabb2
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Zash
Meh
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Link Mauve
Daniel, clone https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/pull/6, then run `cd samples; xsltproc -o conversations.html ../style.xsl conversations.xml`.
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Link Mauve
That’s the closest we have from a renderer.
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Link Mauve
Zash, when did you do that, and from which example?
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Daniel
Link Mauve, thanks. that probably comes close to what i was looking for
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Link Mauve
If you additionally want RDF validation, https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/594 contains a doap.py script which you can use to parse it using a real RDF parser.
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Link Mauve
https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/594/files#diff-64332f4e20f843debc79815b0ecd6a97R81
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Zash
Link Mauve some week(s) ago. Dunno what it's based on, could be the translation thing I made for the old xmpp-features thing.
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MattJ
Link Mauve, is there any chance we can get XEP revision into there?
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Zash
Wasn't there already?
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MattJ
XEPs change, sometimes substantially
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Link Mauve
MattJ, it already is there.
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MattJ
Oh
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Link Mauve
It’s the version property.
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Link Mauve
For instance here: https://pulkomandy.github.io/xmpp-doap/samples/movim.xml
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Link Mauve
The second column.
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MattJ
Oh yeah, it's just the Dino one I looked at didn't have it
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Zash
Link Mauve https://code.zash.se/xmpp-features/file/6198147cec64/doap.lua
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Link Mauve
Zash, right, that was for an older version, which wasn’t really good design wrt RDF.
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Zash
😕
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Link Mauve
The main difference is that there is no wrapper Software anymore, instead it’s the Project which implements a SupportedXep.
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Link Mauve
Before the Project softwares a Client, which doesn’t make any sense in either English or RDF.
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Zash
How2fix?
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Link Mauve
Do you want a patch or guidelines?
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Zash
Either works.
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Link Mauve
So, remove the <software><Client/></software> wrapper, namespace-aware-sed s/xmpp:supports/doap:implements/ and that should be it.
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Link Mauve
Also add a <category rdf:resource="https://linkmauve.fr/ns/xmpp-doap#category-client"/> category.
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Daniel
Link Mauve, how can i find a list of available categories?
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Link Mauve
Daniel, I have a short list at https://linkmauve.fr/ns/xmpp-doap, some other people have been using the GNOME list.
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Link Mauve
I’m not fully sure how that’s meant to work.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve, pep.: can we rename <xmpp:version> into <xmpp:xep-revision>?
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Ge0rG
because "since" and "version" are utterly confusing.
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, that’s pretty redundant though.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: not for a human looking at the XML
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Link Mauve
The SupportedXep is version ~something~.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: not for a human looking at the XML
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, a human should be looking at the RDF, not at the XML.
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Link Mauve
That is, at triples rather than at elements and attributes.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: right, because "Version" and "Since" in the table header is NOT AMBIGUOUS
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, you can rename the table header though.
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Link Mauve
It was a simple example PulkoMandy wrote to verify the format.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: okay, so let's assume for the moment that it's implemented-xep-version. Now tell me how implemented-xep-since makes any sense.
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, can you suggest improvements as patches on top of https://linkmauve.fr/ns/xmpp-doap?
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Link Mauve
I’d also like this to be hosted by the XSF eventually.
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Link Mauve
So all files will have to be updated anyway.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: as I said, I'd do s/version/xep-revision/. But you seem very much opposed to it, so I don't think a PR will help here.
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Link Mauve
I’m not very much opposed to it, I’m just not sure I see the point.
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Ge0rG
it makes editing and understanding easier.
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Link Mauve
And I’d like to avoid unnecessary breaking changes until it gets moved to xmpp.org.
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Ge0rG
less context you need to keep in RAM
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Ge0rG
feel free to postpone this change to when it moves.
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Daniel
so what's a good file name for that? doap.rdf?
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Link Mauve
That’s a good one yeah.
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Link Mauve
That way web browsers will serve it as application/xrd+xml, which is ideal.
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Link Mauve
application/xml should work too.
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Daniel
Link Mauve, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/siacs/Conversations/master/doap.rdf
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Link Mauve
Daniel, maybe remove the comments affecting poezio.
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Link Mauve
Hum, like Zash you based it on an older example. :/
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Daniel
that's the one you linked me to
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Link Mauve
poezio’s doap file is https://lab.louiz.org/poezio/poezio/blob/master/data/doap.xml
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Link Mauve
So hmm, as I told Zash at 13:57:10, remove the <software><Client/></software> wrapper, change xmpp:supports into doap:implements, and that should be it.
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Ge0rG
So I named it .rdf, and now Chrome tells me to "Save as" the file:// URL
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: I've done that, and I'm using your update branch and it doesn't render the table
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, can you show me your DOAP file?
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Ge0rG
ah, I took `doap:` too literally. `<implements>` did the trick
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: how do we handle Compliance Suites?
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Link Mauve
Good question.
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Link Mauve
Maybe the same way Zash’s XMPP-Features did, by checking for complete status on the relevant XEPs?
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Link Mauve
Or for now we could say complete and mark the profile(s) in the <note/> field.
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: what about a separate RDF element?
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, that could work, do you have something in mind?
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Ge0rG
Link Mauve: no, I was just asking
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Daniel
i think it should be figured out automatically
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Daniel
to me that's the point of having machine readable files
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Link Mauve
Daniel, yes, indeed.
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Link Mauve
But which entity would be responsible of that?
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Ge0rG
Daniel: I agree, but it's probably more work to do the automatic figuring-out
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Daniel
Yes but only once
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Ge0rG
What if the developer has a different opinion?
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Link Mauve
Ge0rG, https://code.zash.se/xmpp-features/file/tip/compliance.lua
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Link Mauve
These rules are what XMPP-Features was doing.
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Daniel
Link Mauve, does that look ok now? https://github.com/siacs/Conversations/blob/master/doap.rdf
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Link Mauve
Daniel, yes, the structure looks good. :)
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Link Mauve
Maybe make 0166 partial?
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Daniel
why?
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Link Mauve
You say it’s only for file transfer.
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Link Mauve
But anyway it’s your call.
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Daniel
sure but 0166 doesn’t mandate you to support a specfic application, no?
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Link Mauve
Looks great, I’ll add this URL to my xmpp.org PR.
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kevin
how can i get and post requests to xmpp with postman
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Ge0rG
postman is the wrong tool for the job, even though in theory you could do some weird BOSH stuff
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kevin
really
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kevin
i just want to be able to monitor http requests
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Zash
xmpp is not http
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kevin
i know
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kevin
but it uses http though
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kevin
like 5443
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Zash
I don't know what you're talking about now
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kevin
i want to be able to listen to requests on a specific port
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kevin
and i was told postman was the best program to use
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MattJ
It doesn't use HTTP, and what port it uses is not directly related to what protocol it uses
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Zash
You can of course tunnel anything over everything, hence BOSH as Ge0rG mentioned.
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MattJ
You can do XMPP over HTTP, but most XMPP connections are not doing this (unless they are from a web browser)
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Zash
You can do HTTP over XMPP as well.
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Ge0rG
Is there a solution yet for the F5 on Converse when running via WS?
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Zash
Ge0rG: 198 I guess?
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Ge0rG
Zash: we had a discussion about 0198 on anon, which doesn't work
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MattJ
It works fine if the server assigns the same JID to the same user
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MattJ
which can be done through evil means, such as cookies
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Ge0rG
you can have cookies on WS?
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Zash
Sure
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Zash
The initial handshake is a HTTP request, you can pass whatever headers or parameters there.
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Ge0rG
That's evil indeed, but I'm only slightly surprised.
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Ge0rG
MattJ: do you have such a mechanism in prosody yet?
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Ge0rG
I'm using BOSH now for the webchat because of this.
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MattJ
Ge0rG, not open-source, sadly
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Daniel
I think there is no real downside of keep using bosh for those anon cases
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Ge0rG
Daniel: you are probably right
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DONRASH111
DONRASH111