XSF logo jdev - 2019-09-19


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  66. Ge0rG Now how do I display this DOAP thing properly?
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  69. wurstsalat Link Mauve ^
  70. Link Mauve Ge0rG, what is your wanted rendering thingy?
  71. Link Mauve Something like that? https://pulkomandy.github.io/xmpp-doap/samples/movim.xml
  72. Ge0rG Link Mauve: yes
  73. Link Mauve Something like that? https://linkmauve.fr/extensions/xep-0048.xml
  74. Ge0rG Link Mauve: I've forked your xmpp-doap repo and included the style, but it doesn't show the table content
  75. Link Mauve Ge0rG, then just use the linked XSLT style sheet, by viewing source.
  76. Link Mauve Ge0rG, this was PulkoMandy’s.
  77. Ge0rG Link Mauve: I can't do that on a local file :(
  78. Link Mauve Maybe it isn’t fully up to date with the latest format?
  79. Link Mauve Ge0rG, oh?
  80. Ge0rG yeah, local files are a separate security domain
  81. Link Mauve Indeed, it isn’t up to date.
  82. Link Mauve I can fix that.
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  84. Ge0rG Link Mauve: can we also get the XEP titles in there?
  85. Ge0rG Ideally, I'd also just have `<XEP-0077/>` instead of `<xmpp:xep rdf:resource="https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html" /><xmpp:xep rdf:resource="https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html" />`
  86. Link Mauve Ge0rG, the XEPs don’t have any semantic document thingy we could use to extract the names from.
  87. Link Mauve Also <XEP-0077/> isn’t valid RDF.
  88. Ge0rG Link Mauve: there used to be an XML file listing all that.
  89. Ge0rG Link Mauve: that was a placeholder for whatever the shortest possible syntax is
  90. Ge0rG is a proponent of zero-boilerplate
  91. Ge0rG No idea how I ended up with XMPP
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  93. Link Mauve Ge0rG, syntax doesn’t matter here.
  94. Link Mauve Semantic web parsers already exist, and reusing one is much less work than writing a parser from scratch.
  95. Ge0rG closes VIM
  96. Link Mauve I had a much shorter syntax at first, but it wouldn’t be compatible with existing DOAP software.
  97. Ge0rG So syntax *does* matter? ;)
  98. Ge0rG anyway, this is just minor nitpicking.
  99. Link Mauve Ge0rG, I mean, shorter syntax doesn’t matter.
  100. Ge0rG I want to get this thing going, and that means I need to render it locally
  101. pep. Ultimately you can have something generating your doap file :p
  102. Ge0rG Link Mauve: what would you need to allow XEP name resolution?
  103. Ge0rG pep.: I had some*body* generate it.
  104. pep. Ge0rG: good first step
  105. Link Mauve Ge0rG, you can use xsltproc from libxslt to generate a HTML file from the CLI.
  106. Link Mauve Ge0rG, hmm, a deeper understanding of how XSLT works.
  107. Link Mauve Also since there is a Python version nowadays (see https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/594) it could be done much easier.
  108. Ge0rG Link Mauve: xsltproc shows the same output as chrome. Your style must be b0rken
  109. Ge0rG I thought you had the bestest changes, but now...
  110. Link Mauve It’s not mine, complain to PulkoMandy.
  111. Ge0rG > Resource interpreted as Stylesheet but transferred with MIME type application/xslt+xml: "file:///usr/src/yaxim/xmpp-doap/style.xsl". Is that bad?
  112. Ge0rG Maybe my XML is b0rked? https://op-co.de/tmp/yaxim.doap.xml
  113. Ge0rG ah, yes it is.
  114. Zash > The requested URL /style.xsl was not found on this server.
  115. Ge0rG Zash: it's all horrible!
  116. Zash XSLT is pretty cool
  117. Ge0rG but it was <implements> instead of <xmpp:supports>
  118. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0199.xml
  119. Ge0rG Link Mauve: is <xmpp:version> the XEP version, and <xmpp:since> the application version?
  120. Ge0rG This is super-confusing.
  121. pep. Yeah that's the semantics
  122. pep. Suggestions?
  123. Link Mauve Ge0rG, https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/pull/6
  124. Link Mauve Ge0rG, yes, version and since have this semantic, as you can see in the OWL schema.
  125. Link Mauve Ge0rG, https://linkmauve.fr/ns/xmpp-doap
  126. Daniel what do i need to get started with doap? is there a good sample file including style file and everything?
  127. Link Mauve Daniel, easiest would be to start from one of the ones linked from here: https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/594
  128. Zash Link Mauve https://hg.prosody.im/trunk/raw-file/tip/doc/doap.xml
  129. Daniel Link Mauve, but that doesn’t do the rendering
  130. pep. Board meeting with doap stuff is today right
  131. Link Mauve Daniel, rendering would be up to consumer services, such as xmpp.org, JabberFR’s wiki, some random comparison table, etc.
  132. Daniel right. i'm just looking for something that makes writing easier
  133. Link Mauve Zash, hmm, the format changed to better match DOAP since then.
  134. Daniel and verify that i did everything correctly
  135. Link Mauve Zash, see https://lab.louiz.org/poezio/poezio/commit/31c605528c0ad8b22d617073fb2e1722b82fabb2
  136. Zash Meh
  137. Link Mauve Daniel, clone https://github.com/pulkomandy/xmpp-doap/pull/6, then run `cd samples; xsltproc -o conversations.html ../style.xsl conversations.xml`.
  138. Link Mauve That’s the closest we have from a renderer.
  139. Link Mauve Zash, when did you do that, and from which example?
  140. Daniel Link Mauve, thanks. that probably comes close to what i was looking for
  141. Link Mauve If you additionally want RDF validation, https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/594 contains a doap.py script which you can use to parse it using a real RDF parser.
  142. Link Mauve https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/pull/594/files#diff-64332f4e20f843debc79815b0ecd6a97R81
  143. Zash Link Mauve some week(s) ago. Dunno what it's based on, could be the translation thing I made for the old xmpp-features thing.
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  146. MattJ Link Mauve, is there any chance we can get XEP revision into there?
  147. Zash Wasn't there already?
  148. MattJ XEPs change, sometimes substantially
  149. Link Mauve MattJ, it already is there.
  150. MattJ Oh
  151. Link Mauve It’s the version property.
  152. Link Mauve For instance here: https://pulkomandy.github.io/xmpp-doap/samples/movim.xml
  153. Link Mauve The second column.
  154. MattJ Oh yeah, it's just the Dino one I looked at didn't have it
  155. Zash Link Mauve https://code.zash.se/xmpp-features/file/6198147cec64/doap.lua
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  158. Link Mauve Zash, right, that was for an older version, which wasn’t really good design wrt RDF.
  159. Zash 😕
  160. Link Mauve The main difference is that there is no wrapper Software anymore, instead it’s the Project which implements a SupportedXep.
  161. Link Mauve Before the Project softwares a Client, which doesn’t make any sense in either English or RDF.
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  163. Zash How2fix?
  164. Link Mauve Do you want a patch or guidelines?
  165. Zash Either works.
  166. Link Mauve So, remove the <software><Client/></software> wrapper, namespace-aware-sed s/xmpp:supports/doap:implements/ and that should be it.
  167. Link Mauve Also add a <category rdf:resource="https://linkmauve.fr/ns/xmpp-doap#category-client"/> category.
  168. Daniel Link Mauve, how can i find a list of available categories?
  169. Link Mauve Daniel, I have a short list at https://linkmauve.fr/ns/xmpp-doap, some other people have been using the GNOME list.
  170. Link Mauve I’m not fully sure how that’s meant to work.
  171. Ge0rG Link Mauve, pep.: can we rename <xmpp:version> into <xmpp:xep-revision>?
  172. Ge0rG because "since" and "version" are utterly confusing.
  173. Link Mauve Ge0rG, that’s pretty redundant though.
  174. Ge0rG Link Mauve: not for a human looking at the XML
  175. Link Mauve The SupportedXep is version ~something~.
  176. Ge0rG Link Mauve: not for a human looking at the XML
  177. Link Mauve Ge0rG, a human should be looking at the RDF, not at the XML.
  178. Link Mauve That is, at triples rather than at elements and attributes.
  179. Ge0rG Link Mauve: right, because "Version" and "Since" in the table header is NOT AMBIGUOUS
  180. Link Mauve Ge0rG, you can rename the table header though.
  181. Link Mauve It was a simple example PulkoMandy wrote to verify the format.
  182. Ge0rG Link Mauve: okay, so let's assume for the moment that it's implemented-xep-version. Now tell me how implemented-xep-since makes any sense.
  183. Link Mauve Ge0rG, can you suggest improvements as patches on top of https://linkmauve.fr/ns/xmpp-doap?
  184. Link Mauve I’d also like this to be hosted by the XSF eventually.
  185. Link Mauve So all files will have to be updated anyway.
  186. Ge0rG Link Mauve: as I said, I'd do s/version/xep-revision/. But you seem very much opposed to it, so I don't think a PR will help here.
  187. Link Mauve I’m not very much opposed to it, I’m just not sure I see the point.
  188. Ge0rG it makes editing and understanding easier.
  189. Link Mauve And I’d like to avoid unnecessary breaking changes until it gets moved to xmpp.org.
  190. Ge0rG less context you need to keep in RAM
  191. Ge0rG feel free to postpone this change to when it moves.
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  195. Daniel so what's a good file name for that? doap.rdf?
  196. Link Mauve That’s a good one yeah.
  197. Link Mauve That way web browsers will serve it as application/xrd+xml, which is ideal.
  198. Link Mauve application/xml should work too.
  199. Daniel Link Mauve, https://raw.githubusercontent.com/siacs/Conversations/master/doap.rdf
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  202. Link Mauve Daniel, maybe remove the comments affecting poezio.
  203. Link Mauve Hum, like Zash you based it on an older example. :/
  204. Daniel that's the one you linked me to
  205. Link Mauve poezio’s doap file is https://lab.louiz.org/poezio/poezio/blob/master/data/doap.xml
  206. Link Mauve So hmm, as I told Zash at 13:57:10, remove the <software><Client/></software> wrapper, change xmpp:supports into doap:implements, and that should be it.
  207. Ge0rG So I named it .rdf, and now Chrome tells me to "Save as" the file:// URL
  208. Ge0rG Link Mauve: I've done that, and I'm using your update branch and it doesn't render the table
  209. Link Mauve Ge0rG, can you show me your DOAP file?
  210. Ge0rG ah, I took `doap:` too literally. `<implements>` did the trick
  211. Ge0rG Link Mauve: how do we handle Compliance Suites?
  212. Link Mauve Good question.
  213. Link Mauve Maybe the same way Zash’s XMPP-Features did, by checking for complete status on the relevant XEPs?
  214. Link Mauve Or for now we could say complete and mark the profile(s) in the <note/> field.
  215. Ge0rG Link Mauve: what about a separate RDF element?
  216. Link Mauve Ge0rG, that could work, do you have something in mind?
  217. Ge0rG Link Mauve: no, I was just asking
  218. Daniel i think it should be figured out automatically
  219. Daniel to me that's the point of having machine readable files
  220. Link Mauve Daniel, yes, indeed.
  221. Link Mauve But which entity would be responsible of that?
  222. Ge0rG Daniel: I agree, but it's probably more work to do the automatic figuring-out
  223. Daniel Yes but only once
  224. Ge0rG What if the developer has a different opinion?
  225. Link Mauve Ge0rG, https://code.zash.se/xmpp-features/file/tip/compliance.lua
  226. Link Mauve These rules are what XMPP-Features was doing.
  227. Daniel Link Mauve, does that look ok now? https://github.com/siacs/Conversations/blob/master/doap.rdf
  228. Link Mauve Daniel, yes, the structure looks good. :)
  229. Link Mauve Maybe make 0166 partial?
  230. Daniel why?
  231. Link Mauve You say it’s only for file transfer.
  232. Link Mauve But anyway it’s your call.
  233. Daniel sure but 0166 doesn’t mandate you to support a specfic application, no?
  234. Link Mauve Looks great, I’ll add this URL to my xmpp.org PR.
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  241. kevin how can i get and post requests to xmpp with postman
  242. Ge0rG postman is the wrong tool for the job, even though in theory you could do some weird BOSH stuff
  243. kevin really
  244. kevin i just want to be able to monitor http requests
  245. Zash xmpp is not http
  246. kevin i know
  247. kevin but it uses http though
  248. kevin like 5443
  249. Zash I don't know what you're talking about now
  250. kevin i want to be able to listen to requests on a specific port
  251. kevin and i was told postman was the best program to use
  252. MattJ It doesn't use HTTP, and what port it uses is not directly related to what protocol it uses
  253. Zash You can of course tunnel anything over everything, hence BOSH as Ge0rG mentioned.
  254. MattJ You can do XMPP over HTTP, but most XMPP connections are not doing this (unless they are from a web browser)
  255. Zash You can do HTTP over XMPP as well.
  256. Ge0rG Is there a solution yet for the F5 on Converse when running via WS?
  257. Zash Ge0rG: 198 I guess?
  258. Ge0rG Zash: we had a discussion about 0198 on anon, which doesn't work
  259. MattJ It works fine if the server assigns the same JID to the same user
  260. MattJ which can be done through evil means, such as cookies
  261. Ge0rG you can have cookies on WS?
  262. Zash Sure
  263. Zash The initial handshake is a HTTP request, you can pass whatever headers or parameters there.
  264. Ge0rG That's evil indeed, but I'm only slightly surprised.
  265. Ge0rG MattJ: do you have such a mechanism in prosody yet?
  266. Ge0rG I'm using BOSH now for the webchat because of this.
  267. MattJ Ge0rG, not open-source, sadly
  268. Daniel I think there is no real downside of keep using bosh for those anon cases
  269. Ge0rG Daniel: you are probably right
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