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Daniel
Do servers these days inject stanza id even if MAM is disabled? Should they?
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jonas’
what would be the point?
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guus.der.kinderen
The Unique and Stable IDs, you mean? Openfire does (for MUC).
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guus.der.kinderen
(unless explicitly disabled)
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guus.der.kinderen
The rationale was that XEP-0359 might be used for other (although unidentified) purposes than MAM, and adding it didn't seem to be much of a problem.
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Daniel
> what would be the point? Other deduplicational purposes. Something something
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guus.der.kinderen
XEP-0359 is supposed to be a stand-alone feature, as I read the XEP. MAM depends on it, but that doesn't need to imply that there's no other use case for XEP-0359 than MAM.
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Daniel
I don't really know
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guus.der.kinderen
It's a lot of assumptions on my part to.
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lovetox_
one simple use case could be, if a muc has disabled mam, this does not mean it will not enable it at some point
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lovetox_
and on that point if i join i would like to request from my last known stanza-id
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lovetox_
which implies i have to track stanza-ids even if mam is disabled
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jonas’
lovetox_, or if MAM is enabled and you don’t have any stanza-ID, you request from oldest?
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jonas’
that’d make more sense anyways
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lovetox_
if i dont have a stanza-id, how can i request from the oldest?
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jonas’
without <after/>
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lovetox_
of course, but this yields duplicates
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lovetox_
im not saying a client is not usable, i say it makes sense to track stanza-ids even if mam is not enabled, because it probably will be enabled at some point in the future
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lovetox_
but if i think about it, if mam is enabled, the stanza-id i request will not be in the archive
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lovetox_
so its useless anyway
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Daniel
Yeah I don't know. I just had the vague feeling that it might be useful. Mostly triggered by a bug / very paranoid code in Conversations that absolutely requires stanza ids to be there.
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lovetox_
yeah in that case i could request the whole archive and never receive duplicates
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Daniel
But that's probably just Conversations being too paranoid
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Daniel
I do see how they can be useful for muc though.
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lovetox_
i think i only record the stanza-id if mam is available
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lovetox_
how Daniel?
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Daniel
To dedup even if catching up with the old history model
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lovetox_
yes true
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lovetox_
i wonder if it would be ok to just never use MUC history
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jonas’
lovetox_, how would it yield duplicates?
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lovetox_
if a server does not install MAM, does he really care about history?
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lovetox_
jonas’ i already corrected that statement
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jonas’
right
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flow
Daniel, I would only require <stanza-id/> with by=room@muc.example.org if room@muc.example.org announces the urn:xmpp:sid:0 feature, and potentially, by implication, flag/remove those if the feature is not announced, because it is likely spoofed (although I am not sure if this could be exploited, I can't hurt doing so)
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allie
anyone know if anybody is working on any modern web interfaces to MUCs that isn't ConverseJS?
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jonas’
I don’t think there is
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allie
hmmm... I might have to play around with writing something, if only to see if I can do it. I like conversejs, but it's a bit clunky for some things
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Zash
There are other web clients, I know that much.
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allie
there was that one really nice one... with a k. I forget the name. but it looks abandoned now. and candy for MUC is just bad...
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Zash
Am I the only one who thought Candy was okay?
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allie
Zash: maybe? lol
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allie
Zash: it works, it's just not ideal UI wise. I don't know about the backend. it might be something I can fix to my own satisfaction with themeing
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Zash
It doesn't look like Slack, sure. But I had never seen anything like Slack back then.
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Zash
Looked like any other ~IRC-ish chat to me.
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allie
there are a few sites I've used it on before and it just wasn't quite up to the task once you got a bunch of people involved.
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Zash
allie, looked through the ones listed as "Browser" on https://xmpp.org/software/clients.html ?
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Zash
or the raw data https://github.com/xsf/xmpp.org/blob/master/data/clients.json
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Zash
allie, Kaiwa?
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Link Mauve
Zash, Candy had many vulnerabilities, and nobody was maintaining it.
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Link Mauve
allie, Reventlov recently started a React interface for Converse.
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Zash
Link Mauve, "back then" was a decade ago.
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Zash
Around when it was actively developed
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allie
Zash: yeah kaiwa! it's unmaintained now tho :(
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Zash
There was a fork? Or is Kaiwa the fork?
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Zash
Ah, yeah, otalk.
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Zash
Also unmaintained 🙁
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allie
it'd be nice if rocket chat would work with an xmpp backend, but that hasn't happened so far
- Zash hides mod_rocketchat behind his back and whistles innocently
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allie
Zash: whoa whoa wait what?!
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Zash
Fun fact: Supporting the desktop client is the most trivial thing ever.
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Zash
... because it's just a web browser that loads the web client, so you can stick some JSON in the right place and serve converse.js or something 🙂
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allie
Zash: but then it's converse and not rocket chat, right?
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Zash
I do have some WIP that sorta works with their mobile client tho.
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allie
rocket chat has a pretty nice interface. we use it at work.