XSF logo jdev - 2020-02-13


  1. kikuchiyo has joined
  2. kikuchiyo has left
  3. kikuchiyo has joined
  4. pulkomandy has left
  5. pulkomandy has joined
  6. Zash has left
  7. kikuchiyo has left
  8. moparisthebest has left
  9. debacle has left
  10. moparisthebest has joined
  11. kikuchiyo has joined
  12. kikuchiyo has left
  13. kikuchiyo has joined
  14. kikuchiyo has left
  15. kikuchiyo has joined
  16. larma has left
  17. kikuchiyo has left
  18. kikuchiyo has joined
  19. kikuchiyo has left
  20. Sam Whited has left
  21. larma has joined
  22. Sam Whited has joined
  23. kikuchiyo has joined
  24. kikuchiyo has left
  25. goffi has joined
  26. goffi has left
  27. goffi has joined
  28. goffi has left
  29. goffi has joined
  30. goffi has left
  31. goffi has joined
  32. kikuchiyo has joined
  33. Martin has joined
  34. kikuchiyo has left
  35. kikuchiyo has joined
  36. asterix has joined
  37. kikuchiyo has left
  38. pulkomandy has left
  39. pulkomandy has joined
  40. pulkomandy has left
  41. pulkomandy has joined
  42. debacle has joined
  43. kikuchiyo has joined
  44. Zash has joined
  45. kikuchiyo has left
  46. asterix has left
  47. asterix has joined
  48. pulkomandy has left
  49. pulkomandy has joined
  50. kikuchiyo has joined
  51. Marc has left
  52. kikuchiyo has left
  53. pulkomandy has left
  54. Marc has joined
  55. kikuchiyo has joined
  56. pulkomandy has joined
  57. pulkomandy has left
  58. pulkomandy has joined
  59. debacle has left
  60. pulkomandy has left
  61. pulkomandy has joined
  62. Marc has left
  63. Marc has joined
  64. pulkomandy has left
  65. pulkomandy has joined
  66. pulkomandy has left
  67. debacle has joined
  68. sonny has left
  69. sonny has joined
  70. paul has left
  71. paul has joined
  72. Alex has left
  73. strar has left
  74. Martin has left
  75. Martin has joined
  76. Alex has joined
  77. Marc has left
  78. Marc has joined
  79. Alex has left
  80. Alex has joined
  81. strar has joined
  82. strar has left
  83. strar has joined
  84. strar has left
  85. strar has joined
  86. serge90 has left
  87. serge90 has joined
  88. pulkomandy has joined
  89. asterix has left
  90. asterix has joined
  91. pulkomandy has left
  92. pulkomandy has joined
  93. pulkomandy has left
  94. pulkomandy has joined
  95. arashi has left
  96. arashi has joined
  97. pulkomandy has left
  98. pulkomandy has joined
  99. Wojtek has joined
  100. aj has joined
  101. aj has left
  102. Sam Whited Pushed out a description of the changes I was asking about yesterday, in case anyone is curious or has feedback: https://github.com/mellium/xmpp/blob/master/design/0002_iqmux.md
  103. Sam Whited WIP, but the important bits are laid out.
  104. Marc has left
  105. Marc has joined
  106. flow Sam Whited, does the API allow to register IQMux's that are not an IQ?
  107. flow "func HandleIQ(iqType stanza.IQType, n xml.Name, h IQHandler)" does not look that way?
  108. flow actually I am not sure if this is the function to register a handler or not
  109. Sam Whited flow: yah, sorry, without more context this is likely confusing. The xmpp package has a HandleXMPP function used to register a single handler for all stanzas. You can choose to use this mux package (or write your own) to register a mux as that handler. The mux can have its own handlers.
  110. flow hmm, no, does not look that way
  111. Sam Whited Similarly, the IQHandler has to be registered on the mux for *all* IQs, and then it has its own handlers for IQs.
  112. Sam Whited So the question would be what happens if the IQMux is registered as the handler for eg. messages instead of IQs?
  113. flow Sam Whited, FWIW Smack registers IQ request handlers by QName and iq-request type (get|set), nothing more. IQ request handlers are an first-class concept besides (what one could call) generic stanza handlers in Smack. Those are not able to handle IQ requests, which was a deliberate design choice so that smack is able to reply with an error if no IQ request handler is registered for a given IQ
  114. flow Sam Whited, FWIW Smack registers IQ request handlers by QName and iq-request type (get|set), nothing more. IQ request handlers are an first-class citizen besides (what one could call) generic stanza handlers in Smack. Those are not able to handle IQ requests, which was a deliberate design choice so that smack is able to reply with an error if no IQ request handler is registered for a given IQ
  115. pulkomandy has left
  116. pulkomandy has joined
  117. Sam Whited Yah, we don't have a concept of handlers for different things built in by default because the main library is supposed to be pretty low level. You just get a single handler that all top level stream elements (that aren't stream:stream elements) get passed to.
  118. Sam Whited It also means the routing can be swapped out; if you don't like this simple router, you can create your own (it just has to implement the handler interface) that does whatever that XML query language is or whatever you prefer
  119. flow Sam Whited, I assume this is not meant as pure xmpp client library? Guess things are different then
  120. flow Then I guess it is by design that the API appears to allow you to install a handler for 'error' type IQs
  121. Sam Whited That's a question I have too at the bottom; right now if you send an IQ (this is all part of a separate API) and you get an IQ result or error, that gets automatically passed back to the function you sent the IQ from so that the user can do something with it (see https://pkg.go.dev/mellium.im/xmpp#Session.SendIQ). However, if that has timed out and the function has returned, should it be passed to this handler for the user to handle or ignore? Eg. they may want to log it as a timeout or unhandled response.
  122. Sam Whited I think the answer is "yes", because even if it's timed out I don't think anything should ever be sent over the stream that's automatically ignored, the user should have the option of doing something with it. But I'm not 100% sure.
  123. Sam Whited And it is meant as a pure XMPP client library, if you mean "does it follow the spec?", but parts of it are pretty modular. If the users swap out the standard compliant parts to support some weird Cisco or Google brokenness, that's fine.
  124. Sam Whited (but they'll have to do that, I don't develop them as part of the main project)
  125. Sam Whited When we handle an incomming IQ too (regardless of whether a handler exists or not), we monitor what's being written back to the stream from the handler. If no error or result is written, when the handler returns the library automatically responds to the IQ with some generic result or error, I forget what.
  126. Sam Whited Sorry for the wall of text to answer both questions.
  127. pulkomandy has left
  128. pulkomandy has joined
  129. flow I never had the desire to handle timed-out IQ responses (but smack would allow for that)
  130. flow (or actually, on this layer it is currently undecidable in smack if someone is still waiting for the IQ response or not)
  131. flow Don't get me wrong, it sure could be helpful to have that as diagnostic feature (e.g., "your timeout is to low"), it just isn't a high priority to implement for me
  132. Sam Whited Yah, probably not the end of the world. Although, I think I convinced myself just now that the behavior should be that this can handle Error and Result types (with a note about how you'll only receive them if a timeout happened or the user specifically sent them with one of the raw token encoding APIs instead of SendIQ or SendIQElement which are the two things that actually handle responses)
  133. Sam Whited So I may add two more options for that.
  134. Sam Whited I also wonder if there's a more general way to handle this; eg. does it make sense to have a handler for messages and presence? I don't think so since I don't know what it would even match on, but I'm not sure
  135. Sam Whited Without having to decode the entire stanza up front, that is.
  136. flow I think one could do the decoding lazily
  137. Sam Whited Actually, I was forgetting that error IQs will have this same problem. I always decode lazily, but if the error isn't the first child element, I don't want to match on the original payload and execute a handler for it.
  138. flow but besides that, you have to parse the input xml anyway to determine the stanza boundaries, might as well decode it (at least a little bit). I think what smack does could be described as decoding the stanza always
  139. Sam Whited This library deliberately doesn't do that; it operates on XML tokens instead of entire elements (then gives you the option to decode the tokens into a struct or map or however you do things in your handlers)
  140. pulkomandy has left
  141. flow tbh, I don't see the advantage
  142. Sam Whited Actually, this is fine, I'll just special case error and instead of matching on the child payload that always matches the whole IQ. I think that will be okay. It's a bit weird, I hate special cases, but error is a special case in the protocol so it makes sense that it would have to be in the library too.
  143. Sam Whited No, I don't even have to special case it. This is up to the user, I'll just document it. If you're registering a handler for errors, better make it a wildcard on the XML name. Easy.
  144. pulkomandy has joined
  145. Sam Whited flow: the benefit in this case (which admittedly is niche and most people don't need it, but this is a lower level library meant to make an XMPP client library on top of) is constant memory use (more or less).
  146. Kev Sam Whited: At least at the library level. Pretty much every application is going to need to do a full decode in the end.
  147. Kev (Or I misunderstood the point)
  148. Sam Whited Kev: yup, and now it's up to the user writing an XMPP client library with this backing it how to do that. They may have their own schemas for specific types, they may have a generic XML representation, etc.
  149. flow Sam Whited, so entities inspecting a stanza only have a linear stream of xml events available?
  150. asterix has left
  151. flow is it really constant memory use or *minimal* memory use?
  152. Sam Whited flow: yes, when you register a handler every time a new top level stream element is encountered it is given the start element that triggered the call (eg. a new <message>) and a thing that can be used to pop more tokens from the stream (but is limited to the element the handler is called on, it won't give you anymore if you try to advance beyond </message>). When the handler returns, the library advances to the end of that element (if there are any tokens left to pop) and then continues.
  153. pulkomandy has left
  154. Sam Whited flow: it's not exactly constant, but we're generating less garbage than if we were converting those tokens into a struct or whatever. It is pretty minimal (or would be if the Go xml library weren't terrible, but that can be swapped out later)
  155. asterix has joined
  156. Sam Whited And it lets the user convert those into whatever representation they want.
  157. flow cause I'd say once Smack has consumed an xml stanza the resulting java object instance also has constant memory use ;)
  158. Sam Whited The hypothesis is that tokens are all going to be around the same size (excluding character data payloads sometimes, eg. messages or IBB data, etc.). But if you were decoding things you'd have to both have those tokens *and* decode them into a struct or whatever your data type is.
  159. Sam Whited That's the hypothesis anyways: tokens are probably all roughly similar size and you can throw them away quicker instead of having to buffer all of them and do parsing and create more objects. That's up to the user to decide how they do that in this case.
  160. Sam Whited oops, somehow I thought that errored the first time, sorry for the rephrase of the same thing.
  161. pulkomandy has joined
  162. Sam Whited But the memory use is really less interesting than just being low level and letting the user decode data however they want I think.
  163. Zash has left
  164. Zash has joined
  165. Sam Whited After experimenting with it, I'm very happy to just have a shortcut to register a handler for all Error type IQs that ignores the payload. Doesn't feel special cased, makes it easy to log errors that weren't handled for one reason or another or do manual error handling if you don't like the way the library waits for an error response
  166. asterix has left
  167. Sam Whited Pushed an update with the new API and updated comments to explain it
  168. Sam Whited Thanks for all the feedback, just talking through it out loud has been really helpful too.
  169. pulkomandy has left
  170. pulkomandy has joined
  171. pulkomandy has left
  172. pulkomandy has joined
  173. pulkomandy has left
  174. pulkomandy has joined
  175. pulkomandy has left
  176. kikuchiyo has left
  177. debacle has left
  178. Martin has left
  179. Martin has joined
  180. lovetox has joined
  181. asterix has joined
  182. Martin has left
  183. kikuchiyo has joined
  184. Martin has joined
  185. Marc has left
  186. Marc has joined
  187. Martin has left
  188. Martin has joined
  189. kikuchiyo has left
  190. debacle has joined
  191. flow Always happy to act as rubber duck ;)
  192. Zash Hmm, rubber ducks as swag for FOSDEM and such?
  193. Zash 🦆️<(use XMPP)
  194. paul has left
  195. kikuchiyo has joined
  196. kikuchiyo has left
  197. paul has joined
  198. Martin has left
  199. Martin has joined
  200. Martin has left
  201. Martin has joined
  202. Marc has left
  203. Marc has joined
  204. Martin has left
  205. kikuchiyo has joined
  206. asterix has left
  207. paul has left
  208. Martin has joined
  209. paul has joined
  210. paul has left
  211. paul has joined
  212. Alex has left
  213. pulkomandy has joined
  214. goffi has left
  215. moparisthebest has left
  216. debacle has left
  217. debacle has joined
  218. debacle has left
  219. Alex has joined
  220. lovetox has left
  221. pulkomandy has left
  222. sonny has left
  223. pulkomandy has joined
  224. pulkomandy has left
  225. pulkomandy has joined
  226. sonny has joined
  227. debacle has joined