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edhelas
I have more and more accounts created from Indonesia that use movim.eu as money transfer solution
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edhelas
https://software-otomax.com/
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edhelas
https://tigerengine.co.id/
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edhelas
you should have a look at connected sessions on your servers
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edhelas
resources are TigerEngine and OtomaXC
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edhelas
*OtomaX
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edhelas
thoses accounts are now systematically deleted from my server
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edhelas
http://lebamboledirosita.blogspot.nl/2016/10/roket-pulsa-irs-otomax-tiger-engine.html
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edhelas
SIP resources as well by the way
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edhelas
JIDs are often containing "reload", "oasis", "center", "terminal" or "pulsa"
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Ge0rG
edhelas: I've got a bunch of those too, with gazillions of messages in MAM :(
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edhelas
well time to cleanup them
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Ge0rG
edhelas: Can you read whatever language that is?
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edhelas
/SIP /OtomaX /TigerEngine
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Zash
Google Translate
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Ge0rG
I'm not sure it is really money transfer
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edhelas
also resources that are starting with "FF"
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Ge0rG
I mean: you can't transfer money over XMPP (yet). So whatever they do is only a kind of information / approval flow.
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Ge0rG
Maybe people are using it to pay for their daily expenses, and you kick them out?
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Ge0rG
What if they can't afford their food without our XMPP servers?
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Zash
<error:payment-required/>
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edhelas
Ge0rG I'm fine with that, the issue is that they are using a server in europe, and those services are not free for some/most of them
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edhelas
also the fact that it's quite ugly and create a lots of MAM messages, I'm talking about 100 of Mb each weeks/months
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Maranda
just hard limit the number of stored messages per account...?
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Maranda
100 Megabytes of mam messages mean hundred of thousands ++, I don't see a usecase for a *normal* user if MAM is about account entities.
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Ge0rG
I've manually disabled MAM for the accounts with 100k+ messages in the log
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Holger
edhelas: FWIW, you could tell the server to not enable MAM storage for a given account until a MAM request is issued.
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Ge0rG
I wish prosdy would just default to MAM=off
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edhelas
Holger how ?
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Holger
Ge0rG: And let clients auto-enable it?
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Maranda
Well... my server is configured to allow 5000 stored messages per account after which the oldest will be discarded. Also MAM *SHOULDN'T* be enabled by default, but users *SHOULD* enable it with prefs explicitly.
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Ge0rG
What Maranda said.
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Holger
Maranda: Clients or users?
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Holger
Maranda, Ge0rG: Huh. Ugly UX.
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Holger
edhelas: mod_mam: request_activates_archiving: true
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edhelas
thx
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Maranda
Ge0rG, I implemented MAM so that it's by default disabled until it isn't explicitly enabled by users(/clients).
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Ge0rG
Holger: it should be automatically enabled by a client doing a MAM query.
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Ge0rG
but off by default
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Maranda
Since it's not such a used feature tbh.
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Holger
Well these things should probably be admin-configurable.
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Ge0rG
I had to shutdown my server today for ~10mins to compact a 5.5GB SQLite database.
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edhelas
sqlite O_o
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Maranda
what's wrong with sqlite?
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Maranda
>.>
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edhelas
and why compact, just remove old ones no ?
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Ge0rG
Maranda: I have to shutdown / SIGSTOP prosody when working on the DB
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Maranda
Ge0rG, also btw it should be really trivial to change prosody's default mod_mam behaviour, you just need to change the default prefs in the code, if it's not configurable already.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: I think the trick is to make it auto-enable MAM on the first _read_ access. https://prosody.im/issues/867
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Ge0rG
Zash doesn't want me to have nice things... :(
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Maranda
I don't agree, there're prefs.
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Maranda
the above would be a hack.
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Maranda
A client or user through it can just change the prefs to enable or change logging.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: are the prefs a tristate of off/on/not-set?
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Maranda
Nope... you can do much more elaborate things with prefs.
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Maranda
Like don't log anything cept these jids etc.
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Ge0rG
I mean: can the client determine if the pref is "off" or "not yet set"?
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Maranda
Yes, by retrieving prefs
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Maranda
Not set doesn't exist
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Maranda
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0313.html#prefs
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Maranda
see 6.1.1
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Holger
I agree it's a hack.
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Holger
But currently quite useful in practice ...
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Ge0rG
I don't think it's a hack. We could just standardize it.
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Ge0rG
Or maybe add a business rule for client-controlled initial activation
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Ge0rG
Maranda: you lied. "The <prefs> element MUST be present and contain the current default archiving policy."
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Maranda
I didn't lie
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Maranda
[16:22:53] Maranda: Not set doesn't exist
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Maranda
Tell me where I lied.
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Ge0rG
So the client can't determine if the prefs were set before or not.
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Holger
It can query them with an IQ-get.
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Maranda
O_o, why would it need to
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Holger
Example 19/20 in 0313.
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Ge0rG
Holger: and the server MUST respond with prefs.
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Maranda
You just retrieve the prefs like I said.
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Ge0rG
Holger: there is no way for the server to tell "not yet configured"
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Holger
Ge0rG: Ah right.
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Ge0rG
16:22:17 Ge0rG> I mean: can the client determine if the pref is "off" or "not yet set"? 16:22:32 Maranda> Yes, by retrieving prefs
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Ge0rG
that was the lie!
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Maranda
Because that's not a possibility, there're 3 defaults
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Maranda
read the xep >.>
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Maranda
always, never, roster
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Ge0rG
Maranda: my point is: there is no way for the client to find out "hey, this account never used MAM before, we should enable it"
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Ge0rG
Maranda: so the server-side hack of enabling MAM on the first query is actually sensible
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Ge0rG
Maybe I should write a note to the LC thread.
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Maranda
No it's not, you just retrieve prefs, and then eventually set logging accordingly.
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Holger
And fight against your other client which does it the other way round?
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Maranda
That seems an overcomplication for "I dunno what"
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Ge0rG
Maranda: you are missing my point
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Ge0rG
Maranda: I want MAM disabled until the user has a client that supports MAM.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: and then automatically enabled
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Maranda
No I get it (now), but that's not a server problem, if you use multiple clients kicking each other in the nuts the server shouldn't deal about it for you.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: because there is no "not yet configured" value, the clients can't know if they need to do the initial activation or if the user is paranoid
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Maranda
You want an element stating when it was last configured? Propose it.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: so you still are not getting it :(
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Ge0rG
Maranda: no!
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Ge0rG
Maranda: I want a UX where the first MAM-capable client can automatically determine that it's the first and either auto-enable or ask the user. Once.
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Maranda
Ge0rG, you ain't getting me bud, they. don't. need. to.
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Maranda
A client needs to figure what's the actual configuration and default, *then* deal with it.
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Maranda
You're overcomplicating something which otherwise is simple.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: except it's not simple
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Holger
It's simply not possible without changing 0313 :-)
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Holger
Ge0rG: Anyway isn't the hack like 5 lines of Lua?
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Ge0rG
Holger: it's possible on the server side with the "hack"
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Maranda
Yes, so propose it as I said.
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Maranda
and then, a server implementation of MAM may not allowing setting prefs, what would you do in that case...?
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Holger
Ge0rG: Yes I meant it's not possible for the client to do the right thing with the current 0313.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: commit suicide.
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Maranda
.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: but yeah, see. It's getting more and more complicated.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: I suppose if the MAM policy is enforced by the server, there is no "initial undefined" state
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Maranda
I said that ages ago, that's what the current protocol provides.
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Ge0rG
Maranda: you said what, where?
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Maranda
[16:22:53] Maranda: Not set doesn't exist [16:22:53] Maranda: Not set doesn't exist
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Maranda
bbl
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Holger
Ge0rG: "It's not possible with the current protocol." Marzanna: "You're wrong! It's not possible with the current protocol!"
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Ge0rG
*shrug*
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Holger
s/Marzanna/Maranda
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Ge0rG
So "I said that ages ago" was not a post to standards@
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Holger
Time is relative.