Thursday, November 23, 2017
operators@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Operators Room | http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/operators

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[09:47:09] <edhelas> is exploit.im legit ?
[09:48:03] *** fp-tester has left the room
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[09:48:47] <Ge0rG> edhelas: it depends on your moral compass
[09:48:59] <edhelas> tell me more
[09:49:52] <mathieui> we blacklisted it
[09:50:32] <mathieui> I mean, generally we don’t get too much spam from it
[09:50:32] <edhelas> do you have your blacklist published somewhere ?
[09:51:54] <mathieui> on the other hand, they certainly are a first-class offender when it comes to registering automated accounts and then broadcasting stuff to them, either to *relay* spam, for DoS, or other stuff
[09:51:55] <mathieui> and no
[09:52:14] <edhelas> okay
[09:52:40] <mathieui> (being a botnet relay is not really pleasant, so we blacklisted that)
[09:53:14] <edhelas> do you have your rules published somewhere ? I'm interested to maybe put them in my server config as welll
[09:54:19] <mathieui> nope
[09:54:26] <mathieui> we could publish our blacklist, I suppose
[09:54:34] <mathieui> firewall rules are a bit more touchy
[09:54:38] <edhelas> sure
[09:55:27] <zuglufttier> Wouldn't some kind of trusted network be nice?
[09:55:36] <zuglufttier> The whitelist approach ;)
[09:55:38] *** blabla has joined the room
[09:55:39] *** blabla shows as "online"
[09:56:17] <mathieui> a whitelist approach is bad for the federation, I would rather not do that
[09:57:35] <zuglufttier> True...
[09:57:40] <edhelas> zuglufttier I got ~160 s2s connections on my server
[09:58:57] <mathieui> we have 2500 s2s connections onr our server
[09:59:12] *** Thomas has joined the room
[10:00:19] <Ge0rG> My main issues with such a blacklist are:
- who is trustworthy to add entries?
- where do you put the line?
- how can people get off the list?
[10:00:56] *** pod shows as "online"
[10:01:11] <mathieui> well, exploit.im being a vanity badge for black hats, I don’t think they will get off my list
[10:02:00] <edhelas> is there other servers like this ?
[10:02:14] <Ge0rG> edhelas: xmpp.jp seems popular among spammers as well
[10:02:23] <Ge0rG> but I don't think they are shady per-se
[10:02:25] <zuglufttier> I think the main problem are servers that are not up to date and have no real administrator.
[10:02:42] <Ge0rG> if you blacklist exploit.im, you might offend some kiddies there and get a nice little DDoS.
[10:02:57] <Ge0rG> zuglufttier: 👍
[10:03:06] <zuglufttier> Otherwise, you could use the whitelist approach. Everybody does trust one or two servers in the beginning and so the network will grow quickly.
[10:03:40] <Ge0rG> zuglufttier: that's "web of trust" and it doesn't work for PGP already
[10:04:30] <zuglufttier> And after that: Use a democratic approach. Malicious server can be blacklisted on your server and you could flag them as bad in the whitelist. If the server gets too much bad reputation, it could be removed from the whitelist.
[10:04:49] <zuglufttier> But it really needs active administrators.
[10:05:09] <zuglufttier> And it's problematic in other scenarios :D
[10:05:22] <mathieui> and yes, xmpp.jp is kind of unmaintained
[10:09:39] <zuglufttier> We could introduce blockchains to remove the need for a central withelist server. But again, this is not a perfect solution...
[10:10:18] <edhelas> please dont bring blockchain in the discussion…
[10:10:54] <Ge0rG> zuglufttier: we can just store our messages in the blockchain. Problem solved.
[10:11:10] <Ge0rG> I never finished the xmpp-message-proof-of-work XEP :(
[10:14:08] *** MattJ shows as "online"
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[19:57:50] *** fp-tester shows as "online"
[20:15:41] *** Marzanna shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being a pony more than 5 min)"
[20:17:30] *** jere has joined the room
[20:20:52] *** jww has joined the room
[20:25:39] *** Marzanna shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being a pony more than 15 min)"
[20:26:25] *** Marzanna shows as "online"
[20:35:06] *** Martin has left the room
[20:35:07] *** Martin shows as "online"
[20:38:10] *** Martin shows as "online"
[20:41:50] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[20:44:47] *** pod shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 7 min)"
[20:45:13] *** pod shows as "online"
[20:45:51] *** fp-tester shows as "away" and his status message is " (Abwesend wegen Untätigkeit für mehr als 5 Minuten)"
[20:45:55] *** pod has left the room
[20:46:00] *** carlos has joined the room
[20:46:54] *** sam shows as "online"
[20:53:41] *** jww has left the room
[20:53:58] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm away"
[20:54:05] *** Holger shows as "online" and his status message is "I'm available"
[20:54:34] *** fp-tester shows as "online"
[20:57:47] *** ThibG has joined the room
[20:59:01] *** Marzanna has left the room
[21:10:01] *** ileh has left the room
[21:10:13] *** ileh has joined the room
[21:18:52] *** carlos has joined the room
[21:19:22] *** Martin shows as "online"
[21:22:56] *** Martin has left the room
[21:23:05] *** Martin shows as "online"
[21:24:42] *** ileh has left the room
[21:29:22] *** jww@jotwewe.de has left the room
[21:32:11] *** carlos has joined the room
[21:33:57] *** jww has joined the room
[21:39:12] *** jere has left the room
[21:39:19] *** jere has joined the room
[21:41:54] *** jere has left the room
[21:42:00] *** jere has joined the room
[21:47:58] *** alex shows as "online"
[22:00:36] *** alex has left the room
[22:07:27] *** blabla has left the room
[22:07:51] *** alex shows as "online"
[22:11:17] *** alex has left the room
[22:21:59] *** edhelas has left the room
[22:22:00] *** edhelas has joined the room
[22:28:37] *** Martin has left the room
[22:34:38] *** carlos has left the room
[22:35:25] *** carlos has joined the room
[22:42:59] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[22:44:47] *** fp-tester has left the room
[22:45:20] *** edhelas has left the room
[22:45:30] *** edhelas shows as "online"
[22:49:27] *** edhelas has left the room
[22:53:53] *** Holger shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-away (idle)"
[22:55:07] *** mike shows as "online"
[23:05:51] *** carlos has left the room
[23:05:54] *** carlos has joined the room
[23:15:51] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[23:16:07] *** pod has left the room
[23:17:28] *** Valerian has joined the room
[23:25:58] *** Holger has left the room
[23:26:05] *** Holger shows as "online"
[23:30:49] *** jere has left the room
[23:31:36] *** jere has joined the room
[23:36:57] *** carlos has joined the room
[23:41:29] *** Valerian has left the room
[23:41:34] *** Valerian has joined the room
[23:55:20] *** pod has left the room