XSF logo Summits, Conferences and Meetups workgroup - 2019-12-03


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  5. Guus Yes. We discussed it in here a couple of months ago. I've reached out to our contacts at Cisco, who confirmed that we were welcome.
  6. Guus In the last few years, I usually take point with Ralph in cc. There's no particular reason other than at the time, no-one else stepped up.
  7. Guus I've also started to make arrangements for the hotel. I still need to reach out to the restaurant for the annual dinner.
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  10. Nÿco thx a lot Guus for this, every year
  11. Guus no problem!
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  18. pep. Guus, it'd be great if SCAM was in on this I think
  19. pep. Even if it's not directly in CC (as much as I'd like to)
  20. pep. That is, written somewhere on the wiki, who to contact etc.
  21. pep. somebody told me it wasn't on the summit page
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  25. Guus pep. you're absolutely right - I need to spend the time to write that all down
  26. Guus I've just been called by a service person who's on his way over to my house. Unsure when he'll be here, but chances have it it'll be right when we have our meeting.
  27. pep. Right, that's today
  28. Guus That's in 12 minutes 😃
  29. pep. I'm currently struggling with my movim setup. PHP is such a pain..
  30. Guus I've only recently dabbled a bit with PHP again
  31. pep. Yeah sorry I still don't have a phone, nothing to remind me :x
  32. Guus https://igniterealtime.org:443/httpfileupload/222c83ef-d3a9-4455-8808-ef3a3dd1f0d7/image.png
  33. pep. (I never had any calendar app on my laptop)
  34. Guus ? 😛
  35. Guus Let me share now what I was going to share in the meeting
  36. Guus (it's not to much)
  37. Guus I've reached out to Thon for a quote
  38. Guus They've actually responded earlier today. I'll compose a message for the mailinglists, inviting people to sign up
  39. Guus on first sight, prices are a bit up from last year - but you can share a room against good discounts.
  40. Guus I have yet to reach out to the restaurant
  41. Guus I'm not expecting an issue there, other than how many exclamation marks ralphm insists need to be on the listing of one particular desert on the menu...
  42. Guus like clockwork, that guy just showed up
  43. Guus afk!
  44. pep. !
  45. pep. k
  46. pep. It's time
  47. pep. daniel, COM8, Nÿco
  48. pep. Guus is coming back I assume
  49. pep. 1. Who is here
  50. pep. I feel overwhelmed by all your answers
  51. pep. If there is an issue with the meeting times, please say so and we should move it.
  52. pep. If it's just that you're not aware of it, please make a note somewhere
  53. pep. adds a note to quickly setup his new phone
  54. daniel One sec
  55. daniel Sorry I'm here now. My 'one sec' got delayed because I was out of cellphone coverage
  56. pep. :)
  57. pep. Ok, assuming Guus is coming back soon-ish, let's go ahead
  58. pep. 2. Agenda
  59. pep. 3. 36C3 prep
  60. pep. hmm, before that, anything to add to the agenda?
  61. pep. (I need to work on my meeting skills)
  62. pep. Ok 36C3 prep then.
  63. pep. daniel, you're taking care of the flag pole?
  64. daniel I have plans to make one there
  65. pep. We did talk about organizing meetups right, should we take some time afterwards to properly register sessions etc. with interested people?
  66. pep. There is currently a room at xmpp:36c3@chat.cluxia.eu?join, though it may change soon, but for now people are idling there
  67. daniel I don't think you can already do that
  68. pep. We can setup some time to talk about it in like 2 weeks maybe.
  69. pep. I'll poke people here and in that other channel afterwards.
  70. pep. Let's move on
  71. pep. 4. Sponsor sprints.
  72. pep. https://trello.com/c/2Q3RKyIT/11-sponsor-sprints-allow-people-to-expense-some-things-under-some-conditions
  73. pep. I sent something regarding this on the scam list and I've got no return.
  74. pep. I mean apart from daniel whom I spoke to directly. but none on the list, nothing in the room either.
  75. Nÿco (I'm here...)
  76. pep. Nÿco, hey!
  77. Nÿco am I on that list
  78. Nÿco I'd love the XSF sponsors some sprints
  79. pep. https://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/scam/2019-November/000000.html
  80. pep. You need to register and get approved
  81. pep. https://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/scam
  82. Nÿco ok
  83. Nÿco thx
  84. pep. Since I wrote this I also obviously would like to sponsor sprints. It doesn't have to be big, it doesn't have to be all of them, but there are things we'd need to define first. What is a sprint, and on what grounds do we sponsor.
  85. Nÿco subscription request sent
  86. pep. (Guus ^)
  87. pep. I gave suggestions of a definition and criteria. I'd like to have people's input
  88. Nÿco I believe it would be better to find free venues also, the people/companies giving the offices could provide some food and beverage when possible I'd rather spend XSF money on travelling expenses, for example, or printing swag
  89. daniel I agree with Nÿco on that
  90. pep. Nÿco, travelling expenses such as?
  91. daniel Especially if you consider how expensive venues are compared to food
  92. Nÿco train, bus, maybe car, maybe not plane as usually a bit more exensive?
  93. Nÿco expensive
  94. daniel The question was probably for who
  95. pep. That's the thing. I think we should define "sprint" first.
  96. Nÿco ah
  97. Nÿco development sprints?
  98. pep. I personally don't especially want to encourage bigger ones. My goal is lots of small events all around
  99. pep. For sprints
  100. Nÿco since Sprints work quite successfully this year, I'd rather "invest" in that
  101. pep. and as written in the task description, "I have personally been using this term to describe "contributor" events, (that is mainly developers, translators, documentarians), of a few days, generally over a weekend, sometimes a bit longer)."
  102. Nÿco agree fr lots of small sprints everywhere
  103. daniel Sponsoring individuals to come to sprint is a very slippery slope
  104. Nÿco yeah...
  105. daniel I'm personally fine with limiting it to 'rewards' in form of foods and drinks
  106. Nÿco also, we could experiment "meetups", like one night, three talks of 20-40 mn each that means three speakers, probably need a projector, and a mostly passive audience we still need to experiment on that
  107. daniel Independently of that we could consider supporting speakers who go to conferences
  108. Nÿco I suggest non-alcoholic beverages
  109. Nÿco "speakers who go to conferences" probably, but it is not about "Sprints", is it?
  110. daniel No
  111. daniel That's why I said independently of that
  112. Nÿco ok :)
  113. Nÿco I all in favor of experimenting the XSF sponsoring of Dev Sprints
  114. daniel > I suggest non-alcoholic beverages I'm OK with that.
  115. daniel The overall amount of alcohol consumed during all the sprints I attended thus far was close to if not zero
  116. pep. lots of caffeine though :p
  117. Nÿco hehehe
  118. Nÿco pizza overload?
  119. daniel But I'm OK with codefying that if people feel the need
  120. pep. Ok I'm trying to come up with a definition
  121. Nÿco let's try
  122. Nÿco you draft something here?
  123. Nÿco now?
  124. Nÿco or offline later, for review?
  125. pep. hmm, how do we divide this? We can say that that's a direction we agree we want to go, judging by the chat today
  126. pep. For a start
  127. Guus back, reading up...
  128. pep. Then the two other milestones will be coming up with a definition of a sprint we agree on. Then on what grounds we sponsor, and what that sponsor money is for
  129. Nÿco pep. you lead this initiative? we feed back to you?
  130. pep. Yep I'm happy to lead this
  131. Nÿco +1
  132. pep. One sec, let ask properly
  133. Guus "There are no pending requests." on the SCAM mailinglist signup thingy. Did your subscription fail, Nÿco ?
  134. daniel Open to the public / announced in advance / primary focus to improve and develop open source software for the xmpp ecosystems / must be blogged about
  135. daniel Alternatively 'must be social mediad about'
  136. Nÿco Guus retried: SCAM Subscription results Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email, or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you will soon get a confirmation email which contains further instructions.
  137. Nÿco "social mediad" :) is it trademarked? Can i use it again? ;-)
  138. pep. I move we go ahead with deciding how to sponsor sprints.
  139. Nÿco +1
  140. pep. +1
  141. daniel +1
  142. pep. I agree to lead the initiative and I'll come back to you on the list with more questions (what I said above, what is a sprint, on what grounds do we sponsor, and what should the money be used for)
  143. Guus +1
  144. pep. (should or should not be used for*)
  145. Guus But I strongly agree with what daniel said: this is a slippery slope
  146. Nÿco ...if we sponsor people
  147. pep. Guus, I'm happy to say something like "we only sponsor N events per quarter / year" or things like "first come first served". We can all discuss that later
  148. Guus also, from another perspective: there is a upside to not having big amounts of XSF money for this: commercial companies are often willing to pitch in. This happened with the London and Den Haag sprints, for example. Maybe we should also try to help sprint organizers engage with local businesses.
  149. Guus the added bonus of that is that we might pull in such businesses in the XMPP community
  150. Nÿco wait, sprints are for development meetups are for pitches and commecial announcements
  151. Guus Note that I'm not against the XSF doing sponsoring at all - but these could complement eachother
  152. pep. Nÿco, eventually everything it useful for marketing and bringing people in..
  153. Guus Many commercial organisations are very happy to host developers
  154. Guus if only to woo them.
  155. pep. Guus, we can do that in parallel
  156. Guus yes, absolutely
  157. daniel This assumes that you know people
  158. Nÿco well, the host of such sprints will be duly thanked, I hope
  159. daniel Which raises the barrier for sprints
  160. pep. Yeah also. what daniel says
  161. Guus I'm not sure what you mean, Daniel?
  162. pep. I think coming to the XSF asking if you can do a sprint is a good first step
  163. Nÿco not sure either
  164. pep. We're not there yet
  165. pep. With this I mostly want to make noise saying we're doing things for the community
  166. Guus There often are local developer groups (at least, around here) that already have frequent meetups, often tied in with venues at organizations (think Java User Groups, stuff like that).
  167. pep. And have people know. it's not just isolated events that core members organize
  168. Guus Yeah, absolutely
  169. pep. In any case, I see there is not strong disagreement, I guess we can move this to the list
  170. Nÿco oh it all suddenly becomes blurry, I can't follow that conversation anymore...
  171. Guus I'm just saying that if you need to find a venue, calling up a local medium-sized tech company and explain who you are, what you want to do, and ask if they can host it, you'd probably get positive results.
  172. pep. Nÿco, daniel reacted to what Guus said, that the XSF should also encourage people to contact their local companies.
  173. daniel I see the sponsoring of food and drinks as a reward for doing something and making buzz on social media
  174. Nÿco ok, so it's orthogonal to the current agenda item, right?
  175. daniel It also shows the common developer that the xsf is there for them
  176. pep. Nÿco, yeah it's complementary
  177. Nÿco ok
  178. pep. daniel, agreed
  179. daniel There are lots of developers not highly associated with the xsf
  180. Nÿco ok, so we can also build a policy on that
  181. pep. No more agenda items.
  182. pep. 5. AOB
  183. Nÿco POSS?
  184. pep. Anything SCAM should decide on for POSS?
  185. pep. Or can we talk about it after the meeting
  186. Nÿco yeah, who's joining? what do we plan to do?
  187. daniel There are lots of developers not tightly associated with the xsf
  188. Nÿco why outside this meeting?
  189. pep. because SCAM people might not all be involved and we might want to take that to interested people, assuming there's not budget or anything else to be agreed on
  190. Guus I'll not be at POSS
  191. pep. daniel, are you going in the end?
  192. Guus (also, I'm running late for the next meeting 🙂 )
  193. daniel pep.: no
  194. pep. Nÿco, me, Link Mauve
  195. pep. Nÿco, ok we can talk about it afterwards then :)
  196. pep. Ok, other AOBs?
  197. Nÿco Guus > I'll not be at POSS can you say that instead of: I won't be at POSS ?
  198. pep. Ok, closing then
  199. Nÿco ok
  200. pep. Thanks all!
  201. Nÿco thx all!
  202. Guus thanks!
  203. pep. difficult start, but we made somthing out of it
  204. Nÿco the routine will refine, slowly but surely, if we are consistent and engaged
  205. pep. I'll send minutes soon
  206. Guus I'll not be I won't be Both short for "I will not be" I think. But i'm not a native speaker.
  207. Nÿco thx
  208. pep. And back fixing that moving setup..
  209. Nÿco Guus I had to confirm by email: Awaiting moderator approval You have successfully confirmed your subscription request to the mailing list SCAM, however final approval is required from the list moderator before you will be subscribed. Your request has been forwarded to the list moderator, and you will be notified of the moderator's decision.
  210. pep. Guus, thanks for organizing things for Brussels btw.
  211. pep. I was curious why the XSF always choose the Thon hotel.
  212. pep. What's special about it? I see it as a really expensive hotel
  213. pep. Not especially close to the venue
  214. Nÿco "le thon, c'est bon"
  215. Nÿco :)
  216. pep. :)
  217. Nÿco private joke for the French: it was a TV ad in the 70s https://www.ina.fr/video/PUB3212621118 means "thuna, it's good!"
  218. daniel Yeah that hotel is ridiculously expensive. Even for Brussels. For comparison the thon hotel (same chain) in the city center (equally not close to the venue is 20 or 30% cheaper). And even in the EU quarter I'm paying for a similar 4* business hotel (also some big chain) 30% less or so
  219. daniel Also I stayed at the other Thon hotel for a work trip recently and it didn't feel that special. So assuming the thon EU is similar I don't get it
  220. pep. People had money and were sponsored by companies that didn't care, I guess
  221. pep. I don't think that reflects the current situation
  222. Nÿco I missed the opportunity to join Thon EU, and when I phoned, the lady explained that we start on Wednesday night, when people are still massively working in this area, prices go down on Fridays also other Thons are cheaper
  223. daniel Yeah. I mean luckily I'm no longer in a situation where I have to pick the cheapest hotel in the red light district. But a) a 30% difference is still relevant for me b) we have people in our community who still live on a students budget
  224. pep. I live on no budget currently so yeah that'd be cool to be able to join the majority of the people without having to pay a fortune :)
  225. pep. (I mean, no income.)
  226. daniel > also other Thons are cheaper Yes that's what I said. Same hotel chain. Different (equally bad location for getting to Cisco). Lower price
  227. Nÿco some communities and companies use large houses (via Airbnb)
  228. daniel Having rented a large airbnb house recently that was a pain that I don't want to repeat. Also having breakfast served to you and stuff. I'm OK with hotels. Doesn't have to be a shoestring budget
  229. lskjflskdjf has joined
  230. Nÿco I mean they share a large flat
  231. daniel But does it have to be the most expensive one?
  232. Nÿco agree
  233. daniel I mean personally I'm OK with making my own choices (I already booked a few weeks ago). But chosing the most expensive hotel creates a divide between those who bill their companies and those who don't
  234. Guus I'm not sure how we ended up with Thon EU. The biggest benefit is that we know what to expect there, I guess. I'm open to changes, but don't have the time now to look for suitable replacements.
  235. Guus Right now, I'm preparing dinner
  236. Guus I've not entered into an agreement with Thon yet, so if we want to change it, we can.
  237. Guus But afk now
  238. Nÿco I'll point to you the Thon I've been to, two-three years in a grow
  239. daniel Nÿco: the one close to Gare du Nord?
  240. Nÿco huh...
  241. Nÿco Thon Hotel Brussels City Centre
  242. Nÿco found it
  243. Nÿco I don't know
  244. Nÿco far from Brussel-Zuid
  245. daniel Nÿco: yes that's the one
  246. Nÿco ok
  247. ralphm From what I can find, Thon EU was suggested by dwd
  248. ralphm Before that, we were in the Aloft, relatively close by
  249. daniel That's where I stayed during said business trip recently
  250. Nÿco so this Thon was fine for me
  251. Nÿco I guess we can still find even cheaper, well let's say less expensive :)
  252. ralphm The reason why we chose the EU area, was that it is in between the city centre and the ULB, and also relatively easy to get to from outside the city (and back out, for dinner, Cisco)
  253. Nÿco but Thon City Center is even further than Thon EU from Cisco and FOSDEM
  254. ralphm And I think also because it is more likely we can park a van closeby
  255. daniel > I guess we can still find even cheaper, well let's say less expensive :) Well Brussels is expensive af. So finding something cheaper than _that_ thon is hard if you still want good quality
  256. Nÿco ok
  257. Nÿco you know better, I have too few experience with Brussels
  258. daniel I spent a little too much time researching this...
  259. Nÿco :/
  260. daniel My last work trip paid me a flat fee for travels so I had incentives to look for something cheaper but with decent quality
  261. ralphm One of the criteria is bacon at breakfast, I hear. :-)
  262. pep. I don't mind getting my own breakfast fwiw, or no breakfast.
  263. ralphm I am sure there are different needs between people
  264. pep. As long as I don't have to spend a fortune to get a place that is essentially to sleep
  265. daniel In any case I'll be publishing where I'll be staying (like I did in recent years) and then people can make their own choices and might join me
  266. Nÿco a decent internet connection is a much higher priority than bacon, but I don't want to upset our chair :)
  267. Nÿco with internet connection, you can watch Kevin Bacon movies...
  268. pep. Nÿco, board chair hasn't been voted yet
  269. Nÿco ah
  270. Nÿco future-former chair
  271. ralphm But wait, there's 4G everywhere in Brussels. Don't tell me you rely in hotel WiFi?
  272. ralphm pep. for clarity, until that vote, I remain Chair, so we still have one :-)
  273. ralphm regarding me being upset, I love bacon, but it wasn't my requirement
  274. pep. k
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