XMPP Summit - 2013-01-31


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  20. hildjj https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/e.php?AT=WMI&EventID=215959417&PW=ae8ea25b403f203f&RT=MiMxNDc%3D
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  27. fritzy Neehaw
  28. bear wooo
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  41. fritzy Ralph is a hater.
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  46. winfried he is not well-formed...
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  58. fritzy must be that crazy Twisted stuff.
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  91. fritzy Ralph is really testing Swift's ability to summarize presence changes.
  92. Florian :)
  93. stpeter :)
  94. fritzy it's too bad, but I can't hear anyone on the other end of the room. It'll work better when we break out into groups, I suppose.
  95. Kev fritzy; It's good, though :D
  96. fritzy Kev: oh yeah
  97. bear I never know what to say for these introductions
  98. Kev "Bear". Your name's "Bear".
  99. bear :P
  100. fritzy yup
  101. Kev Happy to help.
  102. hildjj fritzy: it was hard to hear some of those people IRL
  103. Kev There. He remembered, phew.
  104. fritzy the JSON stuff isn't about changing XMPP.
  105. bear yea, that is what we need to keep reminding folks
  106. fritzy It's about making a bridge that can run at any layer for the increasing percentage of web developers
  107. fritzy "as is traditional..." and then the audio cut off
  108. Kev Peter's saying there's lots of stuff we do.
  109. Florian If you want to attend the dinner tonight, and haven't filled in the menu yet, do so now
  110. Florian https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/viewform?formkey=dExlcTBGN2lyYzlJb1h3OEI4cXBicGc6MQ#gid=0
  111. Kev You know all this.
  112. fritzy ah, ok. Strange that the audio suddenly stopped working.
  113. Kev Is it back?
  114. fritzy no
  115. bear he's summarizing the areas people have mentioned to start getting working groups set up
  116. fritzy this'll be more useful in a smaller group setting anyway
  117. Kev I don't think I have any power to d osomething here.
  118. fritzy it's ok for now
  119. fritzy I'll just participate in the smaller groups as I can
  120. Kev OK.
  121. bear if something new is said I will try and repeat it hear
  122. ralphm has joined
  123. bear MEP, WebRTC, WebSockets and Bosh
  124. bear we know now that long polling is not the issue
  125. Kev Not the solution, rather.
  126. bear jim is redialing now
  127. fritzy well, now that we have something better
  128. bear err joe
  129. fritzy Geeze, Joe is a legend, and you get his name wrong?!
  130. fritzy ;)
  131. bear new keyboard
  132. fritzy I'll try too
  133. Kev bear: Keys all in different places?
  134. bear now he is talking about internationalization and mobile support
  135. bear kev: no - my thumbs are in new places
  136. Kev Ah. I hate it when that happens.
  137. Dave Cridland has joined
  138. bear dave!
  139. Dave Cridland Mike!
  140. bear there is a webex setup
  141. hildjj ok, audio should be back?
  142. Dave Cridland Ah - where away webex?
  143. fritzy ok, I have audio now
  144. hildjj dwd: https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/e.php?AT=WMI&EventID=215959417&PW=ae8ea25b403f203f&RT=MiMxNDc%3D
  145. fritzy I'm good to stay up all night.
  146. Kev So I heard.
  147. winfried current thoughts JSON object model
  148. Dave Cridland adds the Webex URI the wiki
  149. fritzy wire protocol isn't necessary, but may be done in certain situations
  150. stpeter fritzy: let us know if you'd like to channel anything to the room for you
  151. stpeter set the topic to http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_13 | https://cisco.webex.com/cisco/e.php?AT=WMI&EventID=215959417&PW=ae8ea25b403f203f&RT=MiMxNDc%3D
  152. fritzy yeah, let me know when I have a chance to summarize my thoughts
  153. stpeter fritzy: will do
  154. stpeter fritzy: our audio is not so great here so we might need to repeat some of what you say here (or crank it up to 11!)
  155. fritzy erreven!
  156. fritzy It's important to clarify that this is a subset of XMPP. It's not extensible, although we might have a XEP for passing generic JSON blobs.
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  158. Dave Cridland This webex thing is fun. All the power of Animated GIF.
  159. Dave Cridland Oh, and now buzzing instead of audio.
  160. fritzy Buzzzzzzzzzz
  161. fritzy oh, fixed
  162. Dave Cridland Unless you've all started monotonically humming?
  163. hildjj sorry, that was peter.
  164. Dave Cridland Ah, for me as well.
  165. stpeter sorry, was playing with the audio settings here
  166. fritzy Dave: are you not in the room then?
  167. Dave Cridland I'm in *a* room...
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  170. stpeter hold on!!!
  171. stpeter I hung up on you
  172. darkrain fritzy: We hung up on you (apparently)
  173. fritzy oops
  174. Steffen Larsen he he he
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  176. stpeter please hold :)
  177. fritzy what I was saying is that as far as what developers wants varies greatly
  178. fritzy the commonality is that they won't touch XML
  179. fritzy because their XML tools have been so bad for so long
  180. fritzy and when they think about extensibility, they're thinking about sending their own blobs as payload
  181. Steffen Larsen but that does not sound extensible
  182. Steffen Larsen ;-)
  183. stpeter we still need to get the audio working again
  184. Adrian Georgescu has left
  185. fritzy NO NOT REST
  186. Dave Cridland No REST for the wicked.
  187. fritzy Not REST... we're not talking routing or verb translation.
  188. bear sorry - rest is just my comfort area for web stuff
  189. fritzy There is some code. stanza.io
  190. stpeter you're back
  191. stpeter on audio
  192. Dave Cridland I can't here any of this (aside from PSA).
  193. Kev He's the only person near the mic.
  194. Dave Cridland Right.
  195. fritzy Federation, security, etc.
  196. darkrain "Some people want presence+routing. Other people want pubsub."
  197. Kev Steffen was just saying that we can't solve all problems, but we can work out a common lib.
  198. fritzy presence, routing, rosters, identity.
  199. stpeter fritzy: right
  200. Kev common requirements, for an API>
  201. Lance basically: what can we provide to be better than socket.io
  202. Steffen Larsen fritzy: exactly
  203. fritzy and then pubsub
  204. stpeter fritzy: pubsub in 1.1 or whatever
  205. stpeter fritzy: or a more native pubsubby thing
  206. fritzy yeah
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  209. fritzy Right... strophe expects you to write and parse XML, and no other lib forces you to do that
  210. stpeter fritzy: yes
  211. fritzy Strophe is mostly just a BOSH connection manager.
  212. fritzy It's simply not enough
  213. stpeter fritzy: yes
  214. stpeter that's right
  215. fritzy and it's not even just about XML... we're expecting application developers to write the wire protocol.
  216. Dave Cridland Right, they want to take some simple API, and throw a javascript object at some endpoint, and get one back.
  217. fritzy exactly
  218. fritzy now that's not to discount the people that want to do more, so I disagree with some of the things you were saying (that it should never be more than that)
  219. Dave Cridland Yes and no. For things like MUC, I'm not sure if doing anything different on the wire is the right direction - I think a neat layer over STrophe is possibly the better chocie.
  220. Dave Cridland (Sorry, typing shot this morning).
  221. fritzy sure sure... an I agree. But we can kill two birds with one stone... we can make a JSON SDK that can /potentially/ be translated on the other side of the wire.
  222. Dave Cridland s/JSON/Javascript object and native feel/ and you're on.
  223. Steffen Larsen I still feel strange that we are talking about SDKs when we are doing protocols.. :-)
  224. Dave Cridland Because the SDK is what's visible, and that's what gains mindshare.
  225. Steffen Larsen Dave: I know..
  226. Dave Cridland With most of our protocol design, we talk about end-user (or end-entity) actions, then see how to translate them onto things on the wire. Here we're a layer down, is all.
  227. fritzy Well, that's why people love JSON... because it can be a Javascript object OR a serialized thing
  228. ralphm So apparently Buddycloud has its annual company outing
  229. fritzy so... is there anything going on in the room right now? cause we have no audio
  230. Kev fritzy: We're ascertaining interest in the topics.
  231. Steffen Larsen no talking about the different topics
  232. fritzy I'll kill my video so you don't have to stare at me picking my nose then.
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  234. Dave Cridland I'll point my video at the dog.
  235. Florian lol
  236. fritzy your dog is licking itself, I think
  237. Dave Cridland He's having a scratch.
  238. Florian we'll be back in 15mins
  239. fritzy k, what are the breakout groups?
  240. bear we haven't decided yet
  241. Dave Cridland Oh, the dog's gone camera shy.
  242. Florian i'm going to Google+ them
  243. bear they are taking a bio brak
  244. fritzy oh, I thought that was what was being discussed. :)
  245. Florian the topics are on the G+ event
  246. hildjj i'm trying some other A/V options while we're taking a break.
  247. fritzy Florian yeah? I don't see an event...
  248. Zash has joined
  249. Zash \o/
  250. fritzy w00t
  251. fritzy How've you been, Zash?
  252. fritzy I'm making coffee and Dave is making tea.
  253. florob@babelmonkeys.de has left
  254. Florian fritzy: sent you an invite to the event
  255. Florian anyone else not part of the XMPP Summit e ent?
  256. Florian I'm in G+ Party Mode streaming some pics there
  257. Florian topics are up
  258. Florian https://plus.google.com/events/c7apt48oi63qoi07a6a5psaf8fc?authkey=CProyqyywtGFHw
  259. hildjj For file transfer, look at XEPs: 95, 96, 65
  260. fritzy for a good time, call Joe
  261. Zash fritzy: Fine, thanks. I arrive. Except now we're out of coffee. I may have had something to do with that...
  262. Steffen Larsen has left
  263. bear can you hear him?
  264. Zash Kev: Tobias did implement -PLUS, but it has not been merged yet
  265. fritzy bear: yes
  266. fritzy thanks guy
  267. fritzy s
  268. Steffen Larsen has joined
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  270. Florian http://go.estos.de/chat/#0hgo7on5
  271. darkrain has left
  272. bear lance - what is your jid? I just realized I don't have you in my roster
  273. SimonTennant has joined
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  276. Steffen Larsen WebRTC and MUC: http://candy-chat.github.com/candy-webrtc/
  277. Dave Cridland Alexey tried to make DIGEST-MD5 use saslprep, but as I recall is was a rathole.
  278. hildjj dave: that's my recollection. the whole idea of having a separate *prep for SASL vs. your application protocol is a little wonky anyway.
  279. Dave Cridland hildjj, Well, given that SASL authentication identifiers are already technically unrelated to the authorization identifiers from the protocol, maybe it makes some weird kind of sense.
  280. bear has left
  281. Dave Cridland Not that I can really hear much of what's said, but Kurt Zeilenga's take here is that it makes sense to have multiple jids, one in ASCII and one not, and either have some mechanism to find out the real non-ASCII jid from the ASCII handle, or else have the server actually remember which jid alias to use for which contact.
  282. Zash Did you just say 'jid alias'?
  283. Dave Cridland Zash, Yes, but actually in the sense I used it I mean jid equivalent.
  284. Kev Dave Cridland: Yes, but that's to solve a different problem.
  285. Dave Cridland Kev, Ah, OK.
  286. Kev Kurt's argument for having an ascii and a non-ascii is so you can put easy things on your business card or whatever.
  287. Kev Rather than suggesting that Japanese folks need to have an ASCII JID.
  288. Dave Cridland Kev, Right.
  289. bear has joined
  290. Dave Cridland Kev, But ISTR his general goal is remote canonicalization.
  291. ralphm with something like punycode?
  292. Dave Cridland Where is the microphone? Because I now can't here Kev, even. Is it shielded by the laptop lids?
  293. Kev I'm just not shouting any more. I was making an effort TO PROJECT earlier.
  294. ralphm up front
  295. Dave Cridland Kev, You is becomin' an hack-toor?
  296. ralphm Can you hear Kev now?
  297. Dave Cridland Very much so.
  298. Dave Cridland If he projects much more we can drop the webex, I think.
  299. ralphm he's presenting now
  300. Dave Cridland Of course, I can't see his diagram.
  301. ralphm better?
  302. Dave Cridland Yes. Though for a brief moment I could only see his crotch.
  303. Zash hah
  304. darkrain TMI
  305. Zash What darkrain said
  306. darkrain here's a muc, there's a muc. everyone muc muc
  307. Lloyd you beat me to that joke :)
  308. darkrain Great minds and all that.
  309. Dave Cridland These two mucs count as one muc.
  310. Zash Did Kev say MUCeption?
  311. Zash Everything needs more MAM!
  312. Dave Cridland You can turn me round again now.
  313. SimonTennant Zash: +1
  314. Dave Cridland Ta.
  315. fritzy End <- encryption -> End
  316. fritzy like that?
  317. Dave Cridland We have a discussion about e2e encryption every time, so should have one this time if only for tradition's sake.
  318. Lance can someone just tell us how to do it properly this time?
  319. SimonTennant Somewhat related to Federated MUC is the Zookeeper project ZAB: http://research.yahoo.com/files/ladis08.pdf
  320. Dave Cridland Lance, The encryption bit is easy, it's the authentication and key exchange bit that's so damn hard.
  321. fritzy did we lose audio?
  322. fritzy oh, there it is
  323. Dave Cridland fritzy, They lost speech.
  324. sekistner has joined
  325. fritzy I have a lot of opinions on xmpp as middleware
  326. fritzy ok, I just have one big one.
  327. fritzy Don't do it unless you're federating data.
  328. hildjj has left
  329. Dave Cridland I think it also depends on where your middle is.
  330. fritzy xactly
  331. Dave Cridland XMPP does to the auth stuff pretty well.
  332. Dave Cridland does do.
  333. abmargb has joined
  334. fritzy right, but middleware is often network secured rather than identity authed
  335. Steffen Larsen fritzy: no thats not always true..
  336. fritzy often, as I said
  337. Steffen Larsen :-)
  338. Dave Cridland Right, purely internal middleware is not interesting, but if your middleware is talking over the internet, say, that changes things whether federation is in play or not.
  339. fritzy right
  340. fritzy don't bother unless it's going over the public net
  341. Dave Cridland I personally suspect that middleware is talking over mobile links and direct-to-browser a lot more than it used to.
  342. fritzy sure sure... clients are further out
  343. Lance dave: yes, it is
  344. fritzy social network: might wait for Simon tomorrow?
  345. Zash He's here
  346. Kev fritzy: He's here.
  347. fritzy oh
  348. Dave Cridland fritzy, I think he's that collection of eight pixels towards the end on the left.
  349. fritzy this cisco tech is really amazing
  350. abmargb has left
  351. Dave Cridland It's like being in the room.
  352. abmargb has joined
  353. Dave Cridland In a parallel universe where you see in 8-bit games console graphics.
  354. fritzy yeah well, most of it is filled in by my imagination and remembering actually being in that room
  355. Florian haha
  356. Dave Cridland Florian, You can't laugh, you weren't born when we had graphics this bad.
  357. fritzy it's like that dream where you can't see anyone's faces
  358. fritzy this staying awake all night thing was easier when I was younger
  359. fritzy I think if we solve the web-integration problems, that the social network stuff will come
  360. fritzy because the social network people will come
  361. hildjj has joined
  362. Dave Cridland fritzy, I think that's certainly a lot of it, yes.
  363. hildjj i'd be happy to shut the camera off if it's not helpful.
  364. fritzy hildjj: what would we complain about then?! ;)
  365. hildjj there's no camera that could shoot this room.
  366. fritzy it's helpful. Thanks Joe. Sorry for complaining
  367. Lance right. the problem right now is that it is too simple and easy to build a silo system, compared to integrating xmpp
  368. hildjj the lighting also sucks, which doesn't help.
  369. hildjj it's like WebRTC, but with more angle brackets, and a bunch of namespace stuff you won't understand.
  370. Edwin Mons has joined
  371. Kev But it's OK, we can show you how to copy/paste.
  372. fritzy right, we have a strong sense of identity
  373. fritzy I repeat... if we solve the web integration problem, they'll come.
  374. darkrain There's an inherent "that XML stuff is scary; I've seen SOAP" attitude, perhaps
  375. Dave Cridland fritzy, Universal identity and addressability, no less.
  376. hildjj darkrain: yes. but i'm tired of fighting that battle.
  377. hildjj partially because i agree with them. XML blows.
  378. fritzy it's a battle not worth fighting anymore.
  379. fritzy time for an attitude change
  380. darkrain I agree; just need to find a way to side-step it.
  381. hildjj right. i've been at least as much of a problem as anyone else for maintaining the status quo, and i'm trying to not be anymore.
  382. fritzy :)
  383. SimonTennant Cridland: "XMPP: Universal identity and addressability" sounds great.
  384. hildjj simon, i usually say "identity-based routing"
  385. Steffen Larsen id, presence and routing.. thats how I use it as middleware..
  386. sekistner What about scaling, how do you tackle bottlenecks in a federated system?
  387. hildjj sekistner: it's always the other guys problem. :)
  388. Dave Cridland SimonTennant, Yeah, it's a bit sound-bite-y, but it's the basic thing - every entity in an XMPP network, from the user (or their account in abstract), and each connected client or server, are all given an addressable name.
  389. Lloyd has left
  390. fritzy sekistner: implementation problem... and implementations have solved it.
  391. Dave Cridland sekistner, I'm not sure I understand - when a system is highly federated, it tends to scale better (because other people take on more burden).
  392. Saúl has left
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  394. fritzy webrtc people.... GET OUT
  395. Lloyd has joined
  396. Steffen Larsen get a room
  397. hildjj ok, i'm going to drop from webex. peter can crank the a/v back up.
  398. fritzy uhh.. ok
  399. hildjj has left
  400. sekistner Not in the web usually. If twitter was federated a retweet from Justin bieber kills a small server.
  401. Zash That's why "web-scale" is a thing ;)
  402. fritzy ugh...
  403. fritzy can you guys hear me?
  404. Lance nope
  405. Steffen Larsen no?
  406. fritzy so sad
  407. Steffen Larsen fritzy: your screaming?
  408. fritzy we're wailing
  409. Adrian Georgescu has joined
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  411. fritzy haha... thanks stpeter
  412. darkrain Zash: https://www.google.com/search?q=mongodb+is+webscale seems relevant
  413. stpeter video?
  414. fritzy stpeter: doesn't matter.. but if you could hear me, that'd be nice.
  415. fritzy chaos is good networking
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  418. fritzy websocket/bosh is a solved problem
  419. stpeter fritzy: right
  420. Dave Cridland A Chaosnet reference?
  421. sekistner Yeah you make fun of web developers and wonder why they ignore xmpp.
  422. stpeter :P
  423. SimonTennant has left
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  426. fritzy I'll be back in 20 min
  427. abmargb has joined
  428. Florian Whitepaper chat: http://piratepad.net/CROClrYlXo
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  431. hildjj http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daboo-aggregated-service-discovery
  432. sekistner has left
  433. Zash no :(
  434. Zash Dave Cridland:
  435. Dave Cridland So I can hear Peter really well, and the video's pretty good, but I can only hear Ralph if he faces the laptop and talks pretty clear.
  436. Dave Cridland Argh! Giant hand!
  437. Zash HAha
  438. darkrain IT'S ALIVE
  439. Zash Dave: Better audio now?
  440. Dave Cridland Yes, that's good.
  441. fritzy bakc
  442. hildjj TINS: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0111.html
  443. Dave Cridland fritzy, We're talking pubsub.
  444. Dave Cridland fritzy, Well, they are. Strangely, the video's gone back to 8-bit mode.
  445. fritzy ok, thanks
  446. Dave Cridland This is a shame, because I can no longer read the whiteboard.
  447. Zash Dave Cridland: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qsWFFuYZYI
  448. Lance has joined
  449. Dave Cridland Oh. Suddenly, I can see PSA's desktop.
  450. stpeter BACON!
  451. Dave Cridland Yeah, I heard Bacon...
  452. stpeter what do you think aboutmoving item retrieval to the extensions spec?
  453. Dave Cridland But I wasn't really paying attention.
  454. Dave Cridland OK, I'm all in favour of moving things out of XEP-0060.
  455. fritzy so we're slimming pubsub out?
  456. Dave Cridland I'm not in favour of moving them into another kitchen sink spec.
  457. fritzy we could do a "non-recording" version of pubsub
  458. fritzy and then have a storage/retrieval extension
  459. Zash Is there a persistence feature?
  460. fritzy normally, yes... the idea might be to move that to its own extension
  461. Dave Cridland I've never been sure what "persistence" means in terms of pubsub, actually.
  462. fritzy items being retrievable
  463. fritzy beyond the initial notify message
  464. Dave Cridland fritzy, No, I don't think so. I think that's controlled by max_items, not by persistence per se.
  465. Dave Cridland SO not about node lifetime at all?
  466. fritzy sure.. but they're talking about max_items, and persistence and retrieval being on the side
  467. fritzy yeah
  468. Dave Cridland RIght, I could go along with that.
  469. Zash Right, http://jabber.org/protocol/pubsub#persistent-items was the disco feature
  470. Dave Cridland FWIW, one thing I've seen from being engaged in sales calls about pubsub is that every single customer has a different set of requirements for a pubsub service, and there's too many possible variations.
  471. hildjj Everyone not in the A/V breakout, please ignore this:
  472. hildjj <message to='juliet@example.com'> <sox xmlns='urn:xmpp:sip'> INVITE sip:juliet@example.com SIP/2.0 Via: SIP/2.0/UDP soxcat.example.com;branch=z9hG4bKnashds8 Call-ID: a84b4c76e66710 CSeq: 314159 INVITE Contact: &lt;sip:alice@pc33.atlanta.com&gt; Content-Type: application/sdp Content-Length: 147 v=0 o=UserA 2890844526 2890844526 IN IP4 here.com s=Session SDP c=IN IP4 pc33.atlanta.com t=0 0 m=audio 49172 RTP/AVP 0 a=rtpmap:0 PCMU/8000 </sox> </message>
  473. Dave Cridland hildjj, Tunnelling SIP inside XMPP verbatim?
  474. hildjj yes.
  475. hildjj SIP over XMPP: SoX
  476. fippo dave: you're not supposed to listen to this ;-)
  477. Dave Cridland fippo, No, because it makes my brain hurt. I can (readily) go along with SDP tunelling; but throwing out Jingle entirely in favour of SIP doesn't strike me as a step forward.
  478. miconda has joined
  479. stpeter Dave Cridland: SDP tunneling makes some sense for various reasons, including CUSAX clients (which we'll discuss tomorrow when Emil is here)
  480. chenzo has joined
  481. Adrian Georgescu Addressing for federated service * http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3958 * http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-precis-nickname-05 * http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-daboo-aggregated-service-discovery-02
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  493. ralphm Kev: http://storify.com/kleinmatic/brewing-fresh-coffee-on-an-airplane-as-one-does
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  498. bear kev: can you create an email alias for howto@xmpp.org and have that go to me, winifred and florian ?
  499. Kev Hrmph.
  500. Kev I've made it go to just you.
  501. stpeter will do :)
  502. bear *please*
  503. bear puts on his most innocent smile
  504. Kev Email for florian and winifred, please.
  505. Kev *Winfried
  506. Florian florian@florianjensen.com
  507. winfried winfried@tilanus.com
  508. bear yea, I know - as soon as I pressed enter I reliazed I spelled it wrong
  509. bear that's the american english way I guess
  510. Lance should have done a last message correction
  511. Florian Swift.im will live for another day :)
  512. bear hehe - yes, now that i'm running a real client
  513. stpeter Kev: I'm screwing things up, ignore my changes to aliases
  514. Kev Peter - you're editing a file I'm alre...
  515. Kev Right.
  516. fritzy looks good Ralph, Peter
  517. Lance +1 on the new organization
  518. stpeter fritzy: thanks
  519. Lance the spec 1 group maps very cleanly to things like redis pubsub and socket.io
  520. fritzy oh yeah, defintely just spreading it out
  521. fritzy oh... XEP 60.1, 60.2, 60.3
  522. Zash ha
  523. Florian :D
  524. bear XEP 0060a
  525. Florian haha
  526. winfried 0060bis
  527. Steffen Larsen b,c,d,...
  528. 760a01e095e5ed0e has left
  529. fritzy oh, can we reserve a block?
  530. fritzy I mean, what if we need more xep 60?
  531. fritzy ;)
  532. Lance xep L60
  533. fritzy we could start naming them like cellphones
  534. Dave Cridland 'T'
  535. Kev XEP-0060/255.255.255.0
  536. Zash Hahaha
  537. Edwin Mons XEP:60::1
  538. Dave Cridland And add several others.
  539. stpeter Kev: nice :)
  540. bear sorry peter, did not realize he had started
  541. stpeter bear: no worries :)
  542. abmargb has left
  543. Kev http://howto.xmpp.org is live.
  544. bear thanks kev
  545. stpeter yay
  546. Kev Enn Pee.
  547. Steffen Larsen wuhu! :-)
  548. Florian LOL
  549. Florian just watch sales skyrocket now :D
  550. Dave Cridland Subtle ad, there.
  551. Zash Kev: You forgot the HTML5 doctype!
  552. winfried kev: I should write a book myself!
  553. Kev winfried: Sure, but ours should stay first in the list.
  554. stpeter https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-daboo-aggregated-service-discovery/
  555. stpeter Abstract This specification describes how clients can discover multiple services to configure themselves with a minimum of user-provided information, as short as possible sequence of queries and with a minimum of overhead for administrators of the services.
  556. Zash stpeter: It's an RFC
  557. stpeter https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-appsawg-webfinger/
  558. stpeter Zash: what is an RFC?
  559. Zash I thougt it was
  560. stpeter Zash: WebFinger is not an RFC yet
  561. stpeter it's in Working Group Last Call right now
  562. Zash or did I get that mixed up with that other similar thing
  563. Zash http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jones-simple-web-discovery-02
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  566. Dave Cridland The top half of this door really is interesting.
  567. SimonTennant has joined
  568. fritzy I.... am.... still... awake....
  569. Edwin Mons Kev: +1
  570. Dave Cridland Insitutional carpet. Nice.
  571. bear zombie fritzy
  572. ralphm fritzy: given you don't get any sleep now, couldn't you just as well come over?
  573. sekistner has left
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  575. fritzy naw, it was good that I stayed home
  576. Kev But we miiiiiss youuuuu.
  577. ralphm aren't you mostly useless now there?
  578. SimonTennant Kev: yes (http://blog.silktide.com/2013/01/the-stupid-cookie-law-is-dead-at-last/)
  579. Edwin Mons Combined Community Codec Pack <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Community_Codec_Pack>
  580. Zash :D
  581. Zash http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-resnick-on-consensus-00 feels relevant
  582. fritzy oh I do!
  583. bear kev - be nice to the 4AM brain of peter
  584. chenzo has left
  585. hildjj that was "tanstaafl" or "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch"
  586. Dave Cridland An acronym from The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, I think. Though it could be Stranger In A Strange Land, now I think of it.
  587. bear Moon is a Harsh Mistress
  588. Dave Cridland Shouldn't Peter refer to "Bad Actors" as "Waiters"?
  589. Zash florob: mimiking!
  590. fritzy I was in that conversation
  591. fritzy prosody implements everything
  592. bear :)
  593. Zash Implement all the things!
  594. fritzy ipv6... every client is a server!
  595. Edwin Mons fritzy@[5222::0123:4567:89ab:cdef]
  596. Zash :D
  597. darkrain Yes! who needs DNS?
  598. Florob has joined
  599. Edwin Mons Catchy EUI64s.
  600. Lance it works
  601. Florob Zash, I think I might just have missed some conversation being half asleep
  602. Zash Florob: Lots of peter@jabber.org
  603. fritzy clap clap
  604. Florob Right, some testing/experience how well confusable mappings work against that would be interesting
  605. darkrain Zash, Florob: How much of that is due to 6122 (and 3920(?)) discussing cherokee versions of 'stepeter'?
  606. Zash darkrain: My thougt also
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  610. fritzy time for me to get the kids ready for school
  611. fritzy see you guys tomorrow!
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  614. Kev GN.
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  619. fippo http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ivov-mmusic-trickle-ice-00
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  625. Steffen Larsen http://developer.cisco.com/web/jabber-developer/get-started ?
  626. m&m has joined
  627. Florob https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-miller-xmpp-e2e-03
  628. m&m that's for end-to-end
  629. Zash I like DNA / DANE
  630. m&m The DNA framework: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-saintandre-xmpp-dna-00
  631. miconda has joined
  632. m&m DNSSEC/DANE: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-miller-xmpp-dnssec-prooftype-03
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  637. m&m http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-miller-xmpp-posh-prooftype-01
  638. Zash This bit about if the SRV is DNSSEC-secured, allow the target name in the certificate. I have a patch for this for prosody.
  639. m&m cool!
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