Monday, October 21, 2013
summit@muc.xmpp.org
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XMPP Summit discussion

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[08:23:09] <jabberjocke> hi any details for remote participation in the summit?
[08:24:06] <jabberjocke> it's a bit early at the moment
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[08:33:06] <Steffen Larsen> they are like 9 hours behind, but I think that there will be a hangout, like last time
[08:33:10] <Steffen Larsen> ironically
[08:33:19] <Steffen Larsen> we should do a webRTC
[08:33:21] <Steffen Larsen> ;-)
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[13:41:04] <albert> And only 9 participants allowed in the hangout.
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[16:15:33] <Kev> m&m: You can't?
[16:15:41] <m&m> now I can
[16:15:43] <m&m> I think
[16:15:53] *m&m tries something
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[16:16:07] <m&m> yay
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[16:27:27] <stpeter> http://piratepad.net/L89H3Q8rao
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[16:28:27] <lloyd> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f1eca0311bb12a659a2abbc58ee581d8e37eaa3d?hl=en-GB
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[16:32:16] <winfried> Hi there!
[16:32:22] *m&m waves
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[16:35:53] *winfried is a bit overthrown by the devastating silence here ;-)
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[16:39:01] <Zash> EHLO
[16:39:37] <m&m> 250 Hello
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[16:43:40] <lloyd> See hangout link above. Hopefully when Lance and Fritzy arrive it'll be moved to a better computer (read: not my laptop)
[16:49:39] <m&m> hopefully better A/V equipment shows up soon
[16:49:45] <m&m> the current speakers are faint
[16:50:15] <lloyd> Sorry, on laptop microphone
[16:50:37] <m&m> evidently, and I've got some idea of XMPP latency between you and here (-:
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[16:57:10] <Dave Cridland> EHLO dave.cridland.net
[16:58:05] <Tobias> <stream:error><not-well-formed xmlns='urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:xmpp-streams'/></stream:error>
[16:58:10] <Dave Cridland> lloyd, Where's the hangout link? I'll join on this and should be able to spin it up on the back camera, point it at Simon and stuffs.
[16:58:22] <lloyd> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f1eca0311bb12a659a2abbc58ee581d8e37eaa3d?hl=en-GB
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[17:00:30] <winfried> thanks dave!
[17:01:34] <m&m> the audio is slightly better, but the video is gone
[17:01:58] <winfried> yeah, it was a short peek
[17:02:01] <Dave Cridland> Oh, it drops video when I switch away?
[17:02:05] <m&m> apparently
[17:02:18] <m&m> back
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[17:24:28] <winfried> think we should stay away from a discussion on trust, but indeed on compatibility
[17:24:39] <winfried> (do you trust verisign?)
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[17:27:31] <winfried> Hi steffen!
[17:27:39] <winfried> See the history for the hangout link
[17:27:56] *Zash mumbles about google
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[17:28:47] <Steffen> Hi Winfried!
[17:28:51] <Steffen> long time no see!
[17:28:56] <winfried> yeah!
[17:29:09] <winfried> too many projects still on the shelves :-P
[17:29:31] <Steffen> winfried: all well? Haven't seen you online for some time.. but that might just be the projects. :-)
[17:29:54] <winfried> my presence had been a bit erratic, yes
[17:29:59] <Steffen> :-)
[17:30:30] <winfried> not cooperating much online right now, so I get a bit sloppy with my IM clients...
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[17:30:41] <Steffen> why not using webRTC and XMPP instead of hangout?.. just such a paradox. :-)
[17:31:09] <winfried> would love to testdrive it...
[17:31:29] <fippo> steffen: because multiuser is hard with webrtc
[17:31:48] <Tobias> fippo, still full mesh-only?
[17:31:57] <Steffen> ohh I see
[17:32:03] <Steffen> p2p...
[17:32:31] <fippo> tobias: unless you want to pay a silo for providing MCU services ;-)
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[17:32:39] <Steffen> fippo: we can do it like skype did it.. auch
[17:32:45] <Steffen> ha ha yes
[17:32:57] <Tobias> fippo, can't we throw jingle nodes at that problem ^^
[17:33:16] <Tobias> just use one of your powerful contacts as MCU
[17:33:32] <fippo> that is something we might try soonish
[17:34:15] <Tobias> but yeah...with video, each participant takes an even bigger chunk out of your bandwidth
[17:34:22] <Steffen> fippo: otherwise it looked cool at the realtimeconf.. was it you that lance was conencting to?
[17:34:35] <fippo> steffen: yes, that was me
[17:34:35] <Steffen> fippo: just saw the video
[17:35:00] <fippo> https://github.com/legastero/jingle-interop-demos -- check those against your favorite xmppserver
[17:35:22] <winfried> btw: can I view a video of that presentation somewhere?
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[17:36:02] <fippo> winfried: http://vimeo.com/77289728
[17:36:08] <winfried> thanks!
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[17:37:45] <Steffen> had some problems with the andyet impl.. (talky.io) in chrome
[17:37:55] <m&m> we lost the feed
[17:38:03] <MattJ> Dave just noticed
[17:38:16] <Steffen> and my browser died...
[17:38:19] <Steffen> yawn
[17:38:22] <m&m> he's horrible at A/V Club (-:
[17:38:27] <m&m> who hired that loser (-:
[17:38:32] <Steffen> :-)
[17:38:34] <MattJ> Was it a hangout? or talky.io?
[17:38:34] <m&m> ralphm: no audio
[17:39:07] <ralphm> oh, I thought somebody would send audio
[17:39:15] <ralphm> reenabling
[17:39:39] <m&m> audio is back
[17:39:40] <winfried> yes
[17:39:44] <ralphm> better?
[17:39:46] <winfried> yes
[17:39:48] <m&m> yes
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[17:42:16] <Dave Cridland> Sorry, I'll reconnect.
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[17:42:25] <Dave Cridland> Only me talking, so uninteresting. :-)
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[17:42:59] <m&m> TOO MUCH AUDIO!
[17:43:11] <Steffen> auuch stop that noise
[17:43:13] <darkrain> echooooooooooooooooo
[17:43:15] <winfried> certainly unintresting ;-)
[17:43:17] <m&m> yeah
[17:43:36] <m&m> two active mics + one room - mixer == BAD
[17:44:19] <jabberjocke> how to connect to the hangout ?
[17:44:30] <m&m> https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f1eca0311bb12a659a2abbc58ee581d8e37eaa3d?hl=en-GB
[17:46:30] <Tobias> ah..posh talk :)
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[17:50:30] <winfried> lost audio
[17:50:35] <Steffen> me too
[17:50:41] <ralphm> m&m muted me
[17:50:51] <m&m> sorry!
[17:50:51] <Steffen> audio back
[17:50:56] <Steffen> thanks
[17:50:57] <m&m> I hit the wrong button
[17:50:58] *Tobias is only seeing that bearded guy
[17:51:03] <Steffen> ha ha
[17:51:06] <m&m> then it wouldn't let me unmute /-:
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[17:55:53] <winfried> we could turn the xmpp server network in some kind of onion routing
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[17:56:08] <winfried> think about it, much of the infrastructure is already there...
[17:56:42] <m&m> and then you could involve clients, if they're willing to suffer through any bandwidth increases
[17:56:50] <m&m> which could be interesting
[17:57:29] <winfried> definitely
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[17:59:20] <Zash> proxy65 over proxy65??
[18:00:10] <Tobias> Zash, want to beat WebRTC in crazy protocol layering?
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[18:02:55] <Zash> Tobias: Multiple layers of prox65 is not nearly crazy enough to even compete with WebRTC
[18:03:34] <Dave Cridland> I see Ralph's figured out captions. :-)
[18:04:05] <winfried> pretty neat yes
[18:04:11] <Steffen> more of those
[18:05:23] <Dave Cridland> Ralph's now quitting XMPP and going into TV news.
[18:05:30] <ralphm> :-)
[18:05:50] <Steffen> ha ha.. ralph the producer
[18:05:53] <m&m> he is a superior cameraman than the previous loser (-:
[18:06:00] <Steffen> :-)
[18:06:37] <Dave Cridland> m&m, That from someone who accidentally muted the feed...
[18:06:59] <m&m> I blame the tooling
[18:07:55] *** Steffen shows as "online"
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[18:12:58] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[18:16:38] <m&m> dropping … if the sec or BOSH stuff starts back, could someone ping me? gracias
[18:17:03] <winfried> ok
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[18:20:04] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:23:04] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[18:25:30] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[18:26:50] *** ralphm shows as "online"
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[18:29:40] <Steffen> wow stpeter got a new non-mac laptop
[18:29:56] <Steffen> or is it my eyes
[18:29:58] <ralphm> yeah, it is a System 76
[18:30:03] <Steffen> nice
[18:30:05] <winfried> linux...
[18:30:10] <Steffen> can it run OSX? ;-)
[18:32:30] <Steffen> it seems like we are not web devs.. ;-)
[18:33:10] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[18:33:30] <Zash> Does it run XTerm?
[18:33:57] <Steffen> good idea Simon,. I agree
[18:34:17] <Steffen> on the front page and put simple
[18:34:32] <winfried> Better describe what you can do with XMPP
[18:35:16] <ralphm> http://web.archive.org/web/20090207135716/http://xmpp.org/ is what we had before
[18:36:59] <Steffen> or a video.. like amqp has: http://www.amqp.org/video
[18:37:26] <Steffen> m2m
[18:37:38] <winfried> military2military?
[18:37:41] <Steffen> :-)
[18:38:12] <winfried> but indeed: give an idea about what can be done with it, give examples of applications, its strongs
[18:38:13] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[18:38:28] <Tobias> yup...sounds good
[18:39:40] <Steffen> yeah. I've done satellite com, TV presence, second screen.. but not that much chat.. and people does not know that.
[18:39:56] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:40:20] <Steffen> use XMPP because of routing, security and federation
[18:40:22] <Steffen> :-)
[18:40:50] <winfried> And a great ecosystem containing a lot of building blocks
[18:40:56] <Steffen> exactly
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[18:41:31] <Steffen> amqp impl.. :http://www.rabbitmq.com/
[18:41:49] <winfried> ralphm: we all want the tutorials, whitepapers etc, but none of us takes the time to write them.... I feel the real problem is in there...
[18:41:59] <Steffen> and they got good tutorials
[18:42:09] <jabberjocke> http://www.rabbitmq.com/getstarted.html
[18:42:35] <Steffen> I like the way that the tutorials are organized..
[18:43:15] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[18:43:25] <winfried> yeah, that is nice
[18:43:38] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:44:08] <ralphm> winfried: I thought I said exactly that
[18:44:48] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[18:44:50] <winfried> well... living in two worlds right now,might be missing some points...
[18:45:24] <ralphm> winfried: I frown upon your dedication to this summit :-D
[18:45:26] <Steffen> the tutorials are organised after patterns.. I like that. If we could do that.. but it might be hard, because of our genral purpose protocol
[18:45:43] <ralphm> Steffen: right
[18:46:03] <winfried> :-D
[18:46:03] <ralphm> Steffen: but to explain something like pubsub (only) it is pretty good
[18:46:05] <jabberjocke> We have the wiki I started to do this for IoT on http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Tech_pages/IoT_systems
[18:46:29] <Steffen> I've started to use rabbitmq for half a year ago.. and I'm almost an expert now.. It took me several years with XMPP ... :-)
[18:46:38] <Steffen> jabberjocke: cool
[18:46:51] <Steffen> I've started a white paper about large scale xmpp..
[18:47:25] <Steffen> ralphm: yes. So we could dig out some genral patterns.. for routing
[18:47:45] <Steffen> ralphm: pub/sub, direct presence, etc.
[18:48:02] <jabberjocke> steffen: thats intresting, large in klients or large in nr of domains
[18:48:15] <Steffen> jabberjocke: large in clients :-)
[18:48:18] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[18:48:32] <Steffen> jabberjocke: but they do stick a bit together
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[18:50:31] <jabberjocke> steffen: the IoT challenge is the management of large number of clients in each domain that need to interact with each other
[18:50:46] <jabberjocke> over the domainborders
[18:51:25] <Steffen> he he yes
[18:52:07] <jabberjocke> and I don't know if thats ever possible with rabbitmq
[18:52:26] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[18:52:29] <Steffen> you can do routing and filters
[18:52:48] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[18:53:22] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[18:53:23] <Steffen> of course pub/sub, topics etc. but to compare that with XMPP would'nt be fair. :-)
[18:53:54] <jabberjocke> it's all about access to the server.
[18:54:03] <jabberjocke> xmpp is all from the klients
[18:54:19] <Steffen> yes
[18:54:48] <jabberjocke> we can have another session on this :)
[18:54:57] <Steffen> jabberjocke: sure :-)
[18:57:25] <Steffen> does anybody know if this video session is being recorded?.. because I won't stay up all night.
[18:58:24] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[18:59:31] <Tobias> g2g...have fun
[18:59:49] <winfried> cu
[19:00:11] <Steffen> cheers Tobias
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[19:02:44] <jabberjocke> well have good lunch
[19:02:49] <winfried> have a nice meal!
[19:02:50] <jabberjocke> 9pm in Uppsala
[19:03:03] <jabberjocke> another coffe I would say
[19:03:07] <winfried> already had dinner here ;-)
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[19:03:48] <winfried> I want to see you guys eating :-D
[19:04:06] *** m&m shows as "online"
[19:04:37] <winfried> looks plenary right now
[19:04:43] <winfried> but I feel muted...
[19:05:33] <jabberjocke> thanks for the sound
[19:05:49] <ralphm> we're really in recess, though
[19:07:02] <m&m> Bear's beard looks even more impressive
[19:07:07] <m&m> if that is even possible
[19:07:21] <Zash> Pix or it never happend
[19:08:30] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[19:08:58] <m&m> audio drop
[19:09:01] <m&m> and it's back
[19:09:31] <m&m> audio drop
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[19:10:10] <ralphm> I blame google
[19:10:40] <jabberjocke> please take some photos to update http://xmpp.org/participate/the-xmpp-summit/
[19:10:56] <Zash> I hear nothing at all!
[19:11:01] <Zash> All Googles fault
[19:11:22] <m&m> yea
[19:11:25] <m&m> but not now
[19:11:26] <jabberjocke> yupp
[19:11:30] <jabberjocke> not now
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[19:11:33] <m&m> now
[19:11:48] <m&m> video froze
[19:11:48] <ralphm> is this better?
[19:11:54] <winfried> no
[19:11:54] <m&m> and no audio
[19:11:58] <ralphm> I switched audio to the laptop's
[19:12:02] <ralphm> weird
[19:12:09] <m&m> what browser?
[19:12:20] *** stpeter shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:12:41] <winfried> the audio sometimes seemed to clip
[19:12:54] <winfried> but now it totally gone
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[19:13:50] <winfried> better like this
[19:13:54] <winfried> (at least for me)
[19:13:59] <m&m> /nod
[19:14:02] <ralphm> cool
[19:14:13] <Steffen> jabberjocke: I still have some pics that I need to upload
[19:14:14] <winfried> lost audio
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[19:14:33] <Steffen> jabberjocke: some from portland a couple of years ago and from europe last year
[19:14:45] <ralphm> it mutes me when I type
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[19:15:08] <m&m> ah
[19:15:14] <m&m> keyboard detection
[19:16:17] <jabberjocke> the wordpress wouldn't upload them
[19:16:57] <jabberjocke> issue with directory access rights
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[19:21:06] <ralphm> hey Ashley Ward
[19:21:41] <Ashley Ward> Hello!
[19:21:52] <winfried> hi!
[19:22:43] <Ashley Ward> What's the current subject? Jingle/WebRTC?
[19:22:50] <ralphm> Lunch
[19:22:55] <Ashley Ward> Yum!
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[19:24:55] <ralphm> but yeah, jingle seems to be a topic
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[19:28:35] <m&m> /sigh
[19:28:42] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[19:28:55] <m&m> //sigh
[19:29:34] <jabberjocke> agree
[19:29:52] <Ashley Ward> Node should suit an xmpp server pretty well
[19:29:54] <jabberjocke> started viewing syslogs insteas
[19:30:46] <m&m> ralphm: when you get a chance, I would greatly appreciate you turning off that Google Effects background
[19:31:10] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[19:31:29] <Ashley Ward> Is that your little girl, winfried?
[19:31:51] <winfried> Yes she is my oldest one
[19:32:01] <winfried> (10 years)
[19:32:10] <Ashley Ward> No doubt amused by the geeks!
[19:32:11] <winfried> have a 6years old too
[19:32:19] <winfried> definitely
[19:32:21] <Ashley Ward> :)
[19:32:33] <winfried> but she is quite geeky too
[19:33:11] <winfried> did some testing with her and she managed to freak out a chatapplication a web builder had been working on for 2 years within 5 minutes
[19:33:15] <winfried> :-D
[19:33:19] <Ashley Ward> Excellent - training her well. My 20 month old loves computers too.
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[19:33:55] <winfried> yeah... still have the first text she wrote on the keyboard
[19:34:03] <Ashley Ward> Same here!
[19:34:06] <Steffen> ha ha cool
[19:34:16] <Steffen> printf("Hello World") ?
[19:34:21] <winfried> LOL
[19:34:45] <Ashley Ward> 10 PRINT "Emilia is great. ";
[19:34:48] <Ashley Ward> 20 GOTO 10
[19:34:52] <Steffen> ha ha
[19:34:59] <Steffen> my first basic on c64
[19:35:22] <Steffen> well.. prob. not the Emilia part. ;-)
[19:35:27] <Ashley Ward> :)
[19:35:32] <jabberjocke> I did that on a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_80
[19:35:53] <Steffen> and on a spectrum.. those were the days
[19:36:04] <jabberjocke> no colors
[19:36:13] <Steffen> mono.. luv it
[19:36:30] <Ashley Ward> I started on a Commodore 16.
[19:36:40] <winfried> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRS-80 and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips_P2000
[19:37:04] <Steffen> ohh yes. that black box
[19:37:32] <winfried> Spent lots of hours on a model III
[19:38:02] <Steffen> yes. I've started on VIC20 and later c64
[19:38:16] <winfried> oh, yeah the vic20
[19:38:20] <Steffen> made demos and stuff.. when it was more barebone and fun. :-)
[19:38:32] <Steffen> great computer
[19:38:37] <jabberjocke> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TI-99/4A had sprites
[19:38:48] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[19:38:59] <Steffen> wow
[19:39:06] <Steffen> never tried that one
[19:39:15] <winfried> nope
[19:39:17] <jabberjocke> my first saved for ages
[19:39:58] <Steffen> how about doing an XMPP server on c64.. could be fun
[19:40:02] <ralphm> I had an Philips MSX 1 and later an MSX 2
[19:40:10] <winfried> ah yeah MSX!
[19:40:11] <jabberjocke> could we get ralphm to turn that background off now
[19:40:16] <Steffen> MSX
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[19:40:22] <Ashley Ward> http://hld.c64.org/poldi/lunix/lunix.html
[19:40:30] <winfried> thanks
[19:40:33] <Ashley Ward> Has a TCP/IP stack and everything
[19:40:45] <Steffen> nice
[19:41:06] <jabberjocke> cool
[19:41:25] <winfried> can somebody take notes on the piratepad?
[19:41:29] <winfried> helps me a lot
[19:41:40] <Zash> +1
[19:41:52] <Steffen> +1
[19:42:01] <Steffen> the sound is not that good
[19:42:20] <ralphm> Hmm :-(
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[19:47:50] <m&m> For the uninitiated: http://piratepad.net/L89H3Q8rao
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[19:48:41] <Zash> Re this
> - authentication downgrades (SCRAM to PLAIN)
what if you put the list of available SASL mechs into a TXT field? (with DNSSEC)
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[19:49:11] *** ralphm changed the title to "Summit 14, Portland | http://piratepad.net/L89H3Q8rao | https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/f1eca0311bb12a659a2abbc58ee581d8e37eaa3d"
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[19:58:36] <Dave Cridland> Zash, You could, but really you'll get that post-TLS anyway.
[19:58:52] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
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[19:59:20] <Dave Cridland> Zash, The problem is a subverted server that forces you to PLAIN to harvest passwords. The solution is that clients shouldn't switch *back* to a weaker auth without user intervention.
[20:01:02] *** Simon shows as "online"
[20:01:04] <Zash> Ah
[20:01:39] <Dave Cridland> Of course, that assumes a linear ordering of SASL mechs. :-)
[20:03:04] <m&m> no
[20:03:22] <m&m> that doesn't help (-:
[20:03:31] <Ashley Ward> I can read about 50% of it
[20:03:48] <Dave Cridland> Now it looks like the Blair Witch Project.
[20:03:50] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:03:54] <Ashley Ward> :)
[20:03:56] <ralphm> I blame stpeter's handwriting
[20:03:57] <m&m> you need an HD camera, and we all need be connected with HD to have a shot
[20:03:57] <Zash> Wat
[20:04:01] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[20:04:10] <ralphm> I think this is an HD camera
[20:04:20] <Ashley Ward> I can actually read it okay
[20:04:30] <Dave Cridland> There are parts I can't read from here anyway.
[20:04:38] <winfried> my laptop screen is too small
[20:05:21] <Ashley Ward> You're there aren't you Dave?
[20:05:39] <Dave Cridland> Right.
[20:05:41] <Ashley Ward> Do we need to invest in some special XSF glasses for you?
[20:05:59] <m&m> maybe that'll be his first act on the next Board
[20:06:06] *** Simon shows as "online"
[20:06:08] <Ashley Ward> :)
[20:06:10] <m&m> "Get Dave Glasses" (-:
[20:06:24] <Ashley Ward> I mean, I'm 4,900 miles away and I can just about read it.
[20:06:47] <winfried> where did you buy your glasses...
[20:07:12] <ralphm> XEP-0259
[20:08:44] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:09:04] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[20:09:56] <Steffen> blair witch prject 2
[20:10:01] <Steffen> project
[20:11:09] *** Simon shows as "online"
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[20:12:02] <bear> the work on carbons is just cleanup - making the errors make sense
[20:12:11] <bear> making the text a little bit more understandable
[20:12:18] <bear> if there is anything else he will take requests
[20:12:44] <bear> he saw that kim had posted something about wanting to switch over to this flag thing put together
[20:12:53] <bear> rather not delay carbons or get another dependency
[20:14:08] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[20:14:22] <jabberjocke> Could "attachments" be enabled on the pirate pad?
[20:14:47] <Steffen> yes
[20:14:51] <Steffen> see the clip icon
[20:16:14] *** Simon shows as "online"
[20:17:38] <jabberjocke> can't upload
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[20:19:10] *** Simon shows as "online"
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[20:22:27] *** Zash shows as "online"
[20:22:29] *** Zash shows as "online"
[20:22:50] <lloyd> https://github.com/ashward/buddycloud-xep
[20:22:59] <bear> (ash) I started drafting a xep around a kind of informal xep they had for buddycloud but it still needs a lot of work to finish
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[20:23:06] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[20:23:17] <bear> (ash) it's sitting in his personal github cloud and needs a lot of work to finish
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[20:23:27] *** Simon shows as "online"
[20:23:41] <bear> 20 min break
[20:23:44] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[20:23:47] <winfried> I will!
[20:24:14] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[20:24:23] <Ashley Ward> Wife's just got back from Yoga, so 20 minute break is well timed :)
[20:24:24] <jabberjocke> yea right it's -3C outside and pitchdark
[20:24:32] <Lance> http://gowebrtc.me/demo.html#xsfsummit
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[20:26:47] <Lance> http://gowebrtc.me/demo.html#tmc8n53d
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[20:27:48] <m&m> I got the camera/mic request for both, but all I see is myself
[20:28:46] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:29:17] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[20:29:19] <m&m> I think it's my local network
[20:30:58] *** winfried shows as "away" and his status message is "sssttt... my computer fell asleep"
[20:32:53] <Zash> erm
[20:32:56] <Zash> what have you done?
[20:33:14] <m&m> it could be worse
[20:33:25] <Zash> I can't close the gowebrtc tabs
[20:33:58] <Zash> fun
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[20:34:41] <fippo> we're having an interesting network in here
[20:35:26] *** winfried shows as "online" and his status message is "remotely participating @XMPP summit Portland"
[20:35:37] <m&m> can you combine the devil horns and angel halo?
[20:38:46] *** stpeter shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:39:07] *** Kev shows as "online"
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[20:39:48] <Zash> ARE THERE SILLY HATS?
[20:39:59] <winfried> HATS?
[20:40:01] <Zash> HATS!
[20:40:19] <Steffen> ha ha ha
[20:40:25] <Steffen> beware of black hats
[20:40:29] <Steffen> ;-)
[20:41:04] <Zash> http://www.stupidgifs.com/images/full/352.gif
[20:44:27] *** Steffen shows as "online"
[20:45:03] <Ashley Ward> Edwin's stroking his cat like a Bond villain...
[20:45:51] <intosi> I have yet to perfect my evil laughter
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[20:47:34] *** m&m shows as "away" and his status message is "stuffage"
[20:47:34] *** m&m shows as "online"
[20:47:51] <m&m> great marketing
[20:48:04] <intosi> If only there was an open protocol that we could extend to have great conference capabilities with video and such...
[20:48:11] <Ashley Ward> I really fancy a coca-cola now...
[20:48:16] <Dave Cridland> And now for close-ups of Bear and PSA's backsides.
[20:48:29] <Ashley Ward> No comment
[20:48:30] <m&m> bear's back
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[20:49:50] <jabberjocke> anyone knows what zoom.us <http://zoom.us>; is doing
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[20:51:57] <waqas> http://waqas.im/summit/reveal.js-master/ <http://waqas.im/summit/reveal.js-master/#/>;
[20:52:09] <bear> http://waqas.im/summit/reveal.js-master/#/
[20:52:28] <Dave Cridland> OK, everyone ready with the slides?
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[20:53:10] <bear> click
[20:53:22] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Rich Web Applications
[20:53:28] <m&m> for future note: slide numbers are worthwhile
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[20:53:41] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Malicious Content
[20:53:56] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Javascript
[20:54:02] <m&m> mute click
[20:54:04] <Steffen> if there are slides. is it possible to them
[20:54:21] <Dave Cridland> Steffan: URI above.
[20:54:30] <Steffen> ahh got it.. thanks dave
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[20:54:47] <Dave Cridland> Slide: CSS
[20:54:48] <Steffen> I am on and off.. so I miss some stuff
[20:55:26] <Dave Cridland> Slide: This requires rich content?
[20:55:56] <Dave Cridland> Slide: So what's the fix?
[20:55:58] <Steffen> why do we not make it XMPP "compatible".. and then share it by a room.. then waqas could click and we other could just view. :-)
[20:56:20] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Templates!
[20:56:44] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Templates: How they work
[20:57:03] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Templates: Be aware
[20:57:16] <Dave Cridland> Slide: (same title)
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[20:58:06] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Sandboxing
[20:58:33] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Sandboxing : Support
[20:58:50] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Sandboxing: Internet Explorer
[20:59:04] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Sandboxing
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[20:59:37] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Rich Content
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[20:59:53] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Attacking XHTML-IM
[21:00:12] <Dave Cridland> Slide: "" : URLS
[21:00:27] <Dave Cridland> Slide: (same title)
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[21:01:55] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Attacking XMHTML-IM: Tags and attributes
[21:02:08] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Attacking XHTML-IM: CSS
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[21:03:32] <Dave Cridland> Slide: CSS Sanitization: Values
[21:03:57] <Dave Cridland> Slide: XHTML-IM.JS
[21:04:10] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Don't Trust The Data
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[21:04:48] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Lessons...
[21:05:11] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Lessons... (again)
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[21:05:57] <Dave Cridland> Slide: And we're done!
[21:06:05] <m&m> source for xhtml-im.js? (and license?)
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[21:07:19] <Dave Cridland> Get that?
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[21:07:24] <intosi> No
[21:07:25] <m&m> I did not get the license
[21:07:27] <intosi> Not the license lbit
[21:07:33] <Dave Cridland> MIT
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[21:07:37] <intosi> Ah, gr8
[21:07:39] <stpeter> MIT license
[21:07:43] <m&m> graze
[21:07:45] <Dave Cridland> And will be on github
[21:07:53] <Dave Cridland> And now everyone's talking at once.
[21:07:59] <intosi> We noticed ;)
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[21:08:07] <m&m> you need a speaking stick
[21:08:14] <intosi> I'm about to get my cat and practice the evil laughter.
[21:08:17] <Ashley Ward> This is actually a pretty useful presentation for web dev in general
[21:08:24] <intosi> Indeed.
[21:08:40] <lloyd> Yeah, lots of the issues apply outside of xmpp/bosh usage
[21:08:57] <Ashley Ward> And the number of devs that get it wrong is incredible.
[21:09:21] <lloyd> Yup.
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[21:11:09] <winfried> I did ;-)
[21:11:16] <Ashley Ward> XHTML-IM security?
[21:12:29] <winfried> BOSH/Websockets/XMPP creates another attack vector, vulnerable to this
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[21:13:26] <Ashley Ward> Might be worth renaming the presentation as there may be people who think "I don't use BOSH, that's not for me", and yet it may well be useful for them.
[21:13:36] <m&m> precisely
[21:13:36] <winfried> yep
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[21:14:29] *winfried applauds
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[21:16:17] <winfried> Would it be an idea to do a fast roundup on XMPP on the web developments
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[21:18:49] <stpeter> Lance is chatting about stanza.io and xmpp-ftw
[21:19:08] <bear> xmpp over websockets draft has been adopted by the working grouop
[21:19:26] <bear> there are two open issues left
[21:19:43] <bear> one is if there is an error and you need to send the client over to a uri
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[21:20:41] <bear> the other issue is because in the browser we don't have a streaming parser should we have different flags to identify when the stream start/ends - lance feels that it's just fine as it is because the code that wraps it is a very thin item
[21:21:30] <bear> the additions to the last bosh rfc have not been applied yet and that should be picked up by the next council
[21:21:32] <Lance> http://github.com/legastero/stanza.io
[21:22:07] <Lance> http://github.com/lloydwatkin/xmpp-ftw
[21:22:59] <bear> xmpp-ftw doesn't require you to give it a web socket, it will accept any socket or transport connection
[21:23:03] <sergey.dobrov> hey guys, I have a similar topic talk, btw :)
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[21:23:15] <lloyd> https://xmpp-ftw.jit.su is probably the best place to look
[21:23:31] <bear> the work being done for HTTP2 should be able to upgrade clean if we target websocket
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[21:24:54] <lloyd> If anyone would like "live" demos I'm sure we could do these too during the summit
[21:25:03] <Ashley Ward> We've lost the summit!
[21:25:12] <bear> they are trying to find his talk
[21:25:32] <jabberjocke> work fine
[21:26:07] <ralphm> http://jrudevels.org/Trash/presentation.pdf
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[21:26:15] <Steffen> well guys, I am off to bed. Have fun and see you later tomorrow
[21:26:22] <MattJ> 'night Steffen
[21:26:27] <stpeter> bye Steffen
[21:26:29] <intosi> nn
[21:26:34] <Steffen> night night
[21:26:40] <m&m> ciao
[21:27:16] <bear> many many clicks on this one
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[21:27:30] <Dave Cridland> Slide: whoami --verbose
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[21:28:29] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Why another library?
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[21:29:17] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Problems
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[21:31:52] <Dave Cridland> Slide: What can we do?
[21:32:19] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Simple Example
[21:32:31] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Possible Mapping
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[21:33:38] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Twilix Message
[21:34:49] <Dave Cridland> Slide: (same title)
[21:35:16] <Dave Cridland> (There's a lot of unfolding ofthe slide I'm not indicating, by the way)
[21:36:33] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Twilix Message
[21:36:40] <Dave Cridland> Slide: JSLiX Analogue
[21:37:01] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Data Validation
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[21:38:21] <Dave Cridland> Slide: XML Fields
[21:39:10] <winfried> BTW: I can't see Sergeys head... he is quite a mystery like this ;-)
[21:39:31] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Queries
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[21:40:36] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Dispatcher
[21:40:56] <Dave Cridland> Camera better? Doing it blind.
[21:41:02] <intosi> Yes
[21:41:19] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Dispatcher again. (no title though)
[21:41:22] <intosi> A slight adjustment to the left perhaps.
[21:41:35] <intosi> Yay!
[21:41:41] <winfried> perfect, thanks!
[21:41:47] <Dave Cridland> Ace.
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[21:45:53] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Dispatcher, no title.
[21:46:12] <Dave Cridland> We should definitely do a XEP for slide coordination.
[21:46:35] <Dave Cridland> Can you guys see the slide on-screen, by the way?
[21:46:37] <intosi> <click xmlns="blah"/>
[21:46:52] <fippo> dave: i think there is an old H. standard fo rthis...
[21:46:53] <intosi> See, but not read.
[21:46:59] <winfried> yep
[21:47:14] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Dispatcher. "Despite the fact XMPP [...]"
[21:47:21] <intosi> Well, with a bit of imagination, you can probably understand what it says.
[21:47:32] <Dave Cridland> Enough to identify? As in, is what I'm doing still useful?
[21:47:41] <intosi> It's very useful.
[21:47:49] <intosi> It's definitely enough to identify.
[21:48:12] <Dave Cridland> Damn, I was hoping to get out of the typing. :-)
[21:48:13] <intosi> And if you have the PDF, you can then make out what the blurry text was supposed to be even without going back to the PDF.
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[21:48:42] <intosi> Get a better camera.
[21:48:50] <m&m> heh
[21:48:57] <intosi> We need Retina cameras ;)
[21:48:59] <m&m> that was suggested earlier
[21:49:13] <lloyd> Retina cameras == eyes?
[21:49:14] <Dave Cridland> It's RalphM's camera. Seems quite good, but I suspect the bandwidth has lowered the quality.
[21:49:15] <intosi> With actual retinas inside them.
[21:49:24] <Dave Cridland> Slide: "Or in the case of handler"
[21:49:26] <m&m> we need HD-4K
[21:49:36] <Ashley Ward> I don't think the conference centre has retina bandwidth
[21:49:38] <bear> yea, he is using a nice logitech external camera
[21:50:34] <Dave Cridland> I'm using a telepresence solution powered by KLM.
[21:50:44] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Table thing.
[21:50:46] <m&m> hehe
[21:50:51] <intosi> The Dutch airline?
[21:51:01] <Ashley Ward> :)
[21:51:07] <Zash> The table is sliding?
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[21:53:21] <Dave Cridland> Ah. Slide: "Is it used anywhere now"
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[21:53:28] <Dave Cridland> Sorry. Distracted.
[21:54:23] <Zash> What slides now?
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[21:54:33] <intosi> same slide still
[21:54:37] <bear> last part of "Current State" slide
[21:54:40] <intosi> 'Is it used anywhere now?'
[21:55:08] <intosi> SVP Implementation exmpl
[21:55:15] <Dave Cridland> Slide: "Comparing Examples", "Software Bersion Protocol Implementation example"
[21:55:21] <Dave Cridland> Erm. "Version".
[21:55:23] <Zash> Ah, still Sergey
[21:56:05] <Dave Cridland> Slide: (same title) "Then we'll need a method"
[21:56:57] <Dave Cridland> Slide: "Now let's define the method to query" ...
[21:57:57] <Dave Cridland> Slide: "as we can see the method"...
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[21:58:30] <Dave Cridland> Slide: "Finally we should define handlers"
[21:59:27] <Dave Cridland> Slide: Counter-example PyXMPP2
[22:00:31] <Dave Cridland> Slides are going thing and fast, sorry.
[22:01:05] <Dave Cridland> JSLiX vs XMPP-FTW currently.
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[22:03:32] <Dave Cridland> jTalk crashed, sorry
[22:03:52] <Dave Cridland> Now on "Just an idea", from JSON-XMPP section
[22:03:52] <intosi> what slide are we on?
[22:04:12] <Dave Cridland> And we're done.
[22:05:24] <sergey.dobrov> http://jrudevels.org/Trash/presentation.pdf
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[22:06:18] <m&m> I'm going to drop for the day, try to catch all of you tomorrow
[22:06:46] <winfried> whats next? I couldn't follow it...
[22:06:54] <lloyd> we're discussing
[22:07:10] <lloyd> Justin is suggesting talking about service delegation
[22:07:28] <lloyd> Quick break
[22:07:36] <winfried> musical break
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[22:10:26] <Zash> sleep break
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[22:15:26] <intosi> Remind me not to let Ralph steer the rocket ship that will evacuate us from earth when we have to leave.
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[22:18:04] <ralphm> http://play.brokt.com/~fritzy/lander/
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[22:21:53] <intosi> Yes…. Much better.
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[22:43:47] <intosi> Can you turn the camera around,plz?
[22:44:28] <intosi> ta
[22:44:42] <intosi> grrr
[22:44:48] <ralphm> hi Wilson
[22:44:53] <intosi> :D
[22:46:21] <Dave Cridland> In all this, I have this mental picture of Matthew Wild - Secret Agent - moving through the mean streets in disguise.
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[22:48:51] <ralphm> Yesterday, he was lost in the woods
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[22:50:53] <sergey.dobrov> I have met him near the zoo yesterday, maybe he was doing some offering sacrifices?
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[22:55:10] <intosi> I can't believe it's not XMPP!
[22:55:37] <winfried> XMPWHAPP!
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[22:58:45] <Dave Cridland> I'm thinking that jTalk is pretty battery intensive - I'm actually out of battery.
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[23:00:56] <sergey.dobrov> it also was pretty buggy when I was using it so I've returned to Xabber
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[23:01:53] <Tobias> right..jtalk crashes on anything MUC related
[23:01:56] <ralphm> for some reason I get random disconnects with Xabber
[23:02:02] <ralphm> because of invalid XML
[23:02:11] <ralphm> still not sure where from
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[23:02:28] <sergey.dobrov> hm, I remember the times when clients were disconnecting because of XML namespace prefixes
[23:02:36] <intosi> Weird. Invalid XML, or invalid UTF-8?
[23:02:42] <ralphm> not sure
[23:02:47] <ralphm> still haven't found it
[23:03:05] <sergey.dobrov> but xabber works pretty fine for me except of lacking functionality
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[23:11:55] <Ash> +1
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[23:18:18] <bear> exciting stuff - truly
[23:18:37] <intosi> Give Ralph some hats.
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[23:18:58] <bear> :)
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[23:24:46] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:24:46] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:26:46] *** darkrain shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not here right now"
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[23:27:47] *** Simon shows as "online"
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[23:30:48] <intosi> Interesting as the discussion is (no sarcasm intended), I'm afraid I have to leave for bed soon. Keeping my eyes open is becoming harder ;)
[23:31:01] <bear> have a good sleep
[23:31:07] <intosi> Ta.
[23:31:21] <winfried> good night!
[23:31:29] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "ZZZzzzzZZZzzzzzzzz"
[23:32:08] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
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[23:33:02] <Lance> XMPP Standards Foundation and XMPP Services Foundation :p
[23:33:23] *** Simon shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
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[23:35:38] <bear> :P
[23:38:13] *** Simon shows as "online"
[23:38:13] *** Simon shows as "online"
[23:39:06] *** Simon shows as "online"
[23:40:42] <winfried> +1
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[23:43:07] *** intosi shows as "away" and his status message is "ZZZzzzzZZZzzzzzzzz"
[23:44:08] *** Simon shows as "online"
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[23:52:06] <Simon> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r-zJqpuHYsWsqtnmrWQo_pXXPRcK-mbiazG-GwuBNj4/edit?usp=sharing
[23:52:19] <Simon> current page structure
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[23:58:05] <bear> thanks
[23:59:18] *** Simon shows as "online"