XSF logo XMPP Summit - 2019-02-01


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  159. Ge0rG Good morning. Did everyone have a great party last night, or is Summit resuming the tech talks? :D
  160. Seve/SouL :D
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  162. pep. !
  163. jjrh Beh train stopped
  164. mathieui everyone had a great snow-delayed train to diegem
  165. jjrh The one time on this trip I leave to make it exactly on time and not early is the day there is a delay
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  171. MattJ jjrh, I think our train passed it on the way :)
  172. jjrh Booo
  173. jjrh Almost there now
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  176. alameyo i have 20 mina to next train :(
  177. pep. Pad is still at https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/XMPP_Summit_2019_Day1 today!
  178. Tobias yeah...let's use that
  179. intosi has left
  180. Tobias also, I'd be nice if there was more contribution on the minutes
  181. mathieui Ge0rG, we’re starting
  182. Holger has left
  183. Tobias anyone needing A/V
  184. Tobias ?
  185. jonas’ I can’t attend remotely this time
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  188. jonas’ but Ge0rG might want to listen in?
  189. Zash pep. talks about Moved
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  196. Seve/SouL Honestly it would be cool to at least being able to listen the discussion (maybe for next year), because I could listen to it but not participate
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  198. Guus SouL, i think you _can_ listen today
  199. Guus or at least, it is technically possible for us to provide you with a stream.
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  205. ralphm Daniel: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0068.html#approach-fieldnames
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  208. Zash https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html#usecases-cancel https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0077.html#example-16
  209. Link Mauve Hey, you are editing the pad both at the bottom and at the top.
  210. mathieui I did at the top since Tobias added day2 at the top
  211. Tobias i thought reading it top to bottom, folks would notice it :)
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  215. Ge0rG I left my earpiece at home, so I can't listen in without offending the cow-orkers
  216. pep. Ge0rG, takeaways for <moved/> is, "offline servers" support as a separate XEP, not in the scope of our first draft. I think it's reasonable. We can still support scheduled shutdowns
  217. jcbrand has left
  218. Ge0rG pep.: any insights on the best protocol to use for embedding <moved/>? PEP? Messages? Presence? All of the above?
  219. Ge0rG I've heard there are unmaintained servers without persistent PEP
  220. Ge0rG Oh, also PEP access model: public --> potential for spam; roster --> your contacts lose access once one of the clients has completed the "moved" game
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  222. pep. <error type='cancel'><gone/></error>
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  225. pep. And we'd have a mechanism (IBR?) to be able to set the tombstone on your account
  226. pep. So the old server can even only send that gone error to your contacts
  227. Ge0rG so this won't work on today's unmaintained servers, but only on tomorrow's ones, which support moved?
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  230. pep. Indeed. But as you said that doesn't work on today's server without persistent PEP
  231. jonas’ today’s servers have persistent pep
  232. jonas’ (mostly)
  233. Ge0rG pep.: backward compatibility is the toughest piece of any protocol
  234. Ge0rG jonas’: you might be biased by only looking at the *popular* servers.
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  236. pep. Ge0rG, ok, so I still don't know how to answer that.
  237. pep. And I guess you don't either
  238. pep. I guess we can have both PEP and <gone/> tbh
  239. Ge0rG pep.: maybe a <message><moved> to all contacts in addition?
  240. Zash <message to=everyone type=chat><moved to="newjid"/><body>Hey, I'm moving to a new account, please add me there: newjid</body></message>
  241. Thanos has joined
  242. pep. yeah backwards compatibility through natural languages in <body/>
  243. Ge0rG Zash: https://op-co.de/tmp/xep-0283.html#message
  244. Ge0rG pep.: ^
  245. Zash Ge0rG: Exactly :)
  246. Ge0rG > The <body/> MUST NOT contain information unrelated to the account move. This allows a receiving client that understands the <moved/> element to discard the <body/> and use an appropriate internal presentation format.
  247. pep. heh, TIL of that document
  248. Ge0rG pep.: ouch. sorry. Should have mentioned that earlier.
  249. Ge0rG I've stopped short of introducing PEP
  250. Ge0rG It's not even git-commited yet, just a stash in my $HOME
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  253. Zash Delay tags can/are scoped by the delaying entity
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  256. edhelas hello people
  257. edhelas sorry to ask again, what is the url of the webex meeting already ?
  258. jonas’ edhelas, https://cs.co/rudy maybe?
  259. jonas’ I don’t know for sure, I’m not listening in today
  260. Ge0rG yes, https://cs.co/rudy works
  261. Ge0rG it even had an XML snapshot slide a bit back
  262. edhelas okay :) I'm in, but no video
  263. edhelas let's try on chrome
  264. Ge0rG edhelas: there is no video, AFAICS
  265. Thanos has joined
  266. edhelas oh ok
  267. Ge0rG but maybe there is and my firefox is too old
  268. ralphm Huh? Three is
  269. ralphm There
  270. edhelas tried with chrome/firefox, no video
  271. Thanos has left
  272. ralphm Weird
  273. vanitasvitae has left
  274. edhelas oh actually I have the video stream of goffi now :)
  275. edhelas so it's definitly an issue with the cameras in the room
  276. MattJ Kev, room in the schedule for a very brief demo from me?
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  278. edhelas if there's still room left I can also do a demo :p
  279. edhelas would it be possible to list Moya on the XMPP website ?
  280. MattJ edhelas, I think you can submit a PR
  281. MattJ or Daniel :)
  282. Daniel i'm just a consultant/contractor for Moya. I don’t have decision power
  283. edhelas can you share the screen ?
  284. Daniel oh never mind. i missunderstood that question
  285. pep. edhelas, it's supposed to be
  286. Ge0rG I can't see anything.
  287. pep. ralphm, ^
  288. Ge0rG audio works, but no video/screen sharing
  289. MattJ Ge0rG, https://jmp.chat/
  290. Ge0rG MattJ: I never completed their onboarding, so I wanted to see it in action at least remotely.
  291. Ge0rG Daniel's presentation worked.
  292. edhelas yes I can confirm, like Ge0rG
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  296. ossguy https://gitlab.com/ossguy/sgx-catapult
  297. Ge0rG ossguy: do you happen to have a video of what you've shown right now?
  298. ossguy yes, I did a similar demo at DebConf that was recorded - let me get you the link a minute...
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  300. ossguy Ge0rG: it starts at 29:40 in https://saimei.ftp.acc.umu.se/pub/debian-meetings/2017/debconf17/live-demos.vp8.webm
  301. ossguy (not sure if there's an easy way to add that time offset as a # thing in the URL)
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  304. Ge0rG ossguy: thanks, I'll watch it when I'm off my metered mobile connection.
  305. ossguy you're very welcome
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  307. Ge0rG VIDEO!!!1!
  308. edhelas VIDEO §§§
  309. edhelas annndd it's gone
  310. mathieui blame Link Mauve
  311. Ge0rG Whatever you guys did, do it again please.
  312. edhelas the video only turns on when Link Mauve is filmed
  313. Zash works now?
  314. mathieui note how he made his "slides" in tmux tabs
  315. Ge0rG We had Link Mauve's screen, then Link Mauve's face, and now it's gone again
  316. edhelas > Video is not currently available due to low bandwidth or local computer conditions (such as CPU or RAM use). Video will resume automatically when conditions improve.
  317. Ge0rG no video any more
  318. edhelas I'm sure I have the bandwidth for it
  319. mathieui edhelas, rust is too powerful for your computer
  320. Zash "worksforme" / ralphm
  321. pep. https://gitlab.com/xmpp-rs/xmpp-parsers/
  322. edhelas mathieui :(
  323. jjrh https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Summit_23#Show-and-tell has some of the links
  324. ralphm Sorry people, I don't know why it (sometimes?) doesn't work for you, but I've been constantly connected to the stream on my laptop, too, and see no issues there.
  325. edhelas ralphm you're stealling all our bandwidth !
  326. Ge0rG There is *at least* one writer thread *cough*cough*
  327. edhelas XEP-xxxx: Sextoys over XMPP
  328. Zash Relevant https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9523-internet_of_dongs
  329. edhelas I'm actually curious to know more about this integration in sextoys, they actually have a chip that can talk XMPP inside the object ?
  330. mathieui edhelas, probably inside a smartphone app
  331. mathieui Zash, that talk was quite disappointing
  332. intosi At one EuroOSCON many moons ago, we had a lengthy chat with someone using (amonst other open tech) XMPP for teledildonics.
  333. edhelas and bluetooth on the other end
  334. goffi or inside a body
  335. edhelas soon pacemakers powered by XMPP, better not miss a stanza there
  336. ralphm edhelas: possibly related too: https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0132.html
  337. mathieui poezio connection code inside pacemakers
  338. pep. please no
  339. pep. *reconnecting* *reconnecting* *reconnecting* *oops*
  340. intosi ralphm: that XEP even uses <gone/> ;)
  341. ralphm https://ralphm.net/publications/xmpp_chat_voip
  342. mathieui (don’t forget to edit your presentation description in minutes if you think it doesn’t do you justice)
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  345. MattJ https://matthewwild.co.uk/projects/scansion/
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  350. flow https://geekplace.eu/box/XmppNioTcpConnectionStateGraph-aQPiEKBwNk8pZK5V1lb5uYFjozeJfI.png
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  352. edhelas that's a nice flow
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  359. flow TIL teledildonics
  360. Seve/SouL +1
  361. jonas’ what?
  362. jonas’ -vv
  363. Seve/SouL Same here
  364. flow jonas’: 12:23:09 intosi> At one EuroOSCON many moons ago, we had a lengthy chat with someone using (amonst other open tech) XMPP for teledildonics.
  365. Zash Ge0rG: Anything to say about xmpp developer foundation or somesuch?
  366. Daniel https://xmpp-developers.foundation/about/
  367. Ge0rG Zash: I'm not the right person for that. But I've heard somebody wanted to found a JSF
  368. Zash Ge0rG: JSF vs XDF - FIGHT!
  369. flow why does it always have to be a vs. and not simply live and let live ;)
  370. vanitasvitae flow: its about the name
  371. flow vanitasvitae, ahh, if this is the biggest issue, i am sure we can find something everyone is unhappy with
  372. debacle For everybody interested in IoT, please remember, that there is a MUC, that needs more participants and more discussion: xmpp:iot@muc.xmpp.org?join
  373. Seve/SouL Zimpy
  374. vanitasvitae Lets name the developer foundation matrix.org
  375. jonas’ flow, I’m also sure we can come up with an acronym with is massively misleading
  376. jonas’ ah, vanitasvitae did it already
  377. vanitasvitae You're welcome :)
  378. jonas’ Massive Advancement Towards Rapid Integration of XMPP
  379. jonas’ or something
  380. vanitasvitae Perfect!
  381. vanitasvitae Spld
  382. vanitasvitae *sold
  383. mathieui jonas’, Massive Advancement Towards Rapid Integration of XMPP. Openly Regulated Guidelines
  384. debacle s/Integr/Implement/ ?
  385. jonas’ debacle, !
  386. Bartek has joined
  387. edhelas Planner Jabber is actually available on XMPP Pubsub https://nl.movim.eu/?node/news.movim.eu/PlanetJabber :) #eatyourownfood
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  389. Ge0rG jonas’: I thought MATRIX is Monolithic Awfully Trendy Re-Invention of XMPP (courtesy of debacle)
  390. jonas’ that’s the other Matrix
  391. vanitasvitae Sprint XYZ - presented by the XSF and XDF!
  392. Ge0rG Speaking of marketing... "We bring the Pee into XMPP"
  393. flow "Monolithic Awfully Trendy Re-Invention of XMPP" ← love it
  394. vanitasvitae Re planetjabber: it still contains philosophy posts
  395. mathieui Ge0rG, please stay away from public relations in any form
  396. Zash https://www.ag-software.net/matrix-xmpp-sdk/ this Matrix?
  397. pep. That's the channel we've been idling in fwiw, xmpp:jsf@chat.cluxia.eu?join - jsf is probably not the name, and xdf came afterwards.
  398. Ge0rG there is precedent for a Jabber®-named organization, and there is precedent for the JSF
  399. Ge0rG And if we keep to the notion of "Jabber" being the federated IM network, a JSF kinda makes sense
  400. singpolyma Merry Band of Jabberers
  401. Zash pep.: look up
  402. vanitasvitae Just do a poll regarding the name
  403. vanitasvitae There is a xep for that, right?
  404. Ge0rG Link Mauve is very quiet on the audio stream
  405. Ge0rG There is also an ongoing effort to report spam-forwarding IBR servers to the admins and to the respective ISPs, to get them shut down
  406. Ge0rG https://op-co.de:5281/upload/FPEZZRp7HmMoJXWQ/Screenshot_20180312-121844.png
  407. flow Ge0rG has maaaany friends
  408. Ge0rG but they all only speak Russian :(
  409. flow Ge0rG, I thought you too (at least a bit)?
  410. ralphm vanitasvitae: as I said, Planet Jabber is about People Doing Jabber/XMPP stuff. It is not about Posts About Jabber/XMPP.
  411. flow ralphm, I think there is maybe a desire to change that
  412. Ge0rG 99.9% of current spam can be blocked by some easy heuristics and blocking of URLs from non-subscribers
  413. ralphm flow: there's also Planet Jabber News which includes software update feeds
  414. Ge0rG if the audio wasn't so bad, I'd contribute some insights too
  415. Ge0rG Maybe we can pay the spammers *more* to not send any spam any more! 😁
  416. Seve/SouL :)
  417. Zash What could go wrong
  418. Ge0rG Zash: Cobras
  419. pep. We need to hire a hitman
  420. Seve/SouL Thanks for explaining MattJ
  421. flow Hmm, the discussion is dereailed it appears, was interersting to hear what Link Mauve explained, but right now I don't know where we are heading to
  422. pep. Spammers might be listening in this room, we need not to reveal our secrets
  423. Ge0rG *raise hand* my spam solution isn't blocking all messages from foreigners
  424. Tobias Ge0rG, alright...will proxy it
  425. Daniel flow, i think a lot of people don’t know how spammers or spim work. so getting everyone on the same page (ie how does the threat vector look like exactly) is certainly valuable
  426. dwd pep. Good point. Maybe we should lay some false trails. How about I suggest that the spammers are easy to spot because they use plaintext whereas everyone else uses XHTML-IM?
  427. Tobias Ge0rG, Link Mauve is explaining things in more detail
  428. Ge0rG Tobias: Link Mauve is very quiet, so I'm missing out random fragments
  429. pep. dwd, sounds good to me
  430. flow Daniel, true, but given the limited time I think it would be benficial to focus on what actually works regarding spam prevention
  431. Ge0rG raises hand
  432. singpolyma has left
  433. dwd pep., Maybe a XEP that has a new element: <this-is-not-a-spam xmlns='urn:xmpp:spam:0'/> that we pretend we check for?
  434. Tobias Ge0rG, next time i'll bring a megaphone
  435. Daniel right. but to work out the solutions it is importants to understand how the problem actually looks like
  436. flow Ge0rG, you need to tell Tobias to raise his hand for you :->
  437. Daniel for example the information that there are only ~3 spamming services is interesting
  438. Tobias Ge0rG, it's up
  439. Daniel also the information that spammers can read
  440. Daniel which apparently people weren’t aware of
  441. Tobias Ge0rG, are you on audio? if not just write what you want proxied
  442. Ge0rG Tobias: I'm on audio, just need to unmute myself and surprise you all with my voice
  443. Tobias alright
  444. intosi We could ask spimmers to use https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0076.html
  445. Ge0rG https://github.com/JabberSPAM/blacklist re what Link Mauve is saying
  446. Tobias Ge0rG, PING
  447. Seve/SouL Yes Ge0rG
  448. flow So according to https://github.com/JabberSPAM/blacklist/blob/master/blacklist.txt, the current size of the problematic services is 1
  449. flow Doesn't look so bad
  450. Guus 😛
  451. Daniel flow, there is a due processes to get on that list and off that list
  452. Daniel quite a few servers are about to get on that list
  453. pep. (which is what the document explains)
  454. Daniel it just hasn’t happened yet
  455. flow ahh, ok
  456. Ge0rG messages bots domain ---------- ---------- ------------------------------------ 4307 3171 bunkertor.org 1984 628 jabber.cd 1950 1169 paranoid.scarab.name 1351 1044 darkengine.biz 1233 364 amtserver.com 1064 254 anyproxy.net 1061 251 securejabber.me 837 479 unstable.nl 771 258 biniou.net 676 267 default.rs
  457. Daniel but they are close to being escalated
  458. flo has joined
  459. Guus of my last 10 spam messages, 2 are on this list.
  460. jonas’ if Ge0rG isn’t DoS’d out of the internet first
  461. pep. jonas’, too late?
  462. mathieui thanks Guus
  463. mathieui Ge0rG*
  464. intosi I've seen spam from domains on this list as well.
  465. mathieui (but thanks Guus for summit organization anyway I guess)
  466. Guus You're welcome 🙂
  467. Ge0rG Some clients will block incoming messages/subscription requests until a captcha is solved
  468. Ge0rG Like https://github.com/redsolution/xabber-android/issues/851
  469. Tobias In case people remember stuff from the spam discussion that's missing on https://etherpad.wikimedia.org/p/XMPP_Summit_2019_Day1 , please add it
  470. Ge0rG With the current level of sophistication of the spammers, there is NO NEED for captchas
  471. intosi Ge0rG: interesting observation.
  472. Ge0rG Tobias: *raises hand* sometimes spam accounts are created, then not logging in for multiple weeks, then wake up and spam
  473. Daniel yes.
  474. mathieui often, yes
  475. Daniel but i don’t think it matters to the pattern of suddenly sending messages to 1000s of people
  476. Tobias Ge0rG, it's up
  477. mathieui +1
  478. Daniel that pattern should be blocked regardless of how old the account is
  479. singpolyma has joined
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  481. Ge0rG less-than-secret example from the firewall: ``` # outgoing messages to non-contacts need to be full-body-searched. KIND: message TYPE: chat|normal|headline NOT SUBSCRIBED? JUMP_CHAIN=user/bodycheck ```
  482. Ge0rG from a fast skim of the rules, the only thing that's not coming from the message is the mutual subscription status
  483. Tobias maybe the Rspamd protocol documentation can also provide some helpful input
  484. singpolyma so the antispam server doesn't need the whole roster, just a boolean basically about the relationship between from and to
  485. Zash none/to/from/both
  486. Tobias maybe the Rspamd protocol documentation can also provide some helpful input https://www.rspamd.com/doc/architecture/protocol.html
  487. Ge0rG Zash: the relevant question is: did the recipient authorize the sender before
  488. singpolyma would the blacklist being public be as problematic as the rules? I would think probably not?
  489. Ge0rG singpolyma: the blacklist doesn't contain any black magic.
  490. mathieui yet.
  491. Ge0rG There are various public blacklists already
  492. flow Ge0rG, that sounds like it could be feasiable to just put additional metainformation in the message send to the spam indendification service, versus the spam identification service asking for additional information from the xmpp server
  493. Ge0rG I've only created my own one because none of the earlier ones had a due process
  494. Ge0rG flow: yes.
  495. Ge0rG flow: just a metadata flag
  496. singpolyma for sure. due process is a good thing that can help us from becoming like email
  497. Ge0rG singpolyma: I wanted to be a _good_ RBL
  498. flow Ge0rG, question is, will there be more metadata in the future? Probably, but then we question is "How much?"
  499. Seve/SouL Did I hear correctly :)
  500. Ge0rG Tobias: jonas’ provided measurements from compression with different flushing aggressivity
  501. Zash https://blog.thijsalkema.de/blog/2014/08/07/https-attacks-and-xmpp-2-crime-and-breach/
  502. Ge0rG jonas’' data on XMPP compression: https://github.com/horazont/aioxmpp/issues/249
  503. Ge0rG aioxmpp test suite, sync_flush only (XEP-0138 as written): 40% rx, 20% tx aioxmpp test suite, full_flush after each stanza: 25% rx, 20% tx JabberCat startup (lots of mucs, lots of avatars), full flush after each stanza: 25% rx, 12% tx JabberCat startup (lots of mucs, lots of avatars), sync flush: 36% rx, 12% tx
  504. Ge0rG (the percentage being the ratio of bytes saved; tx is from client to server, rx is from server to client)
  505. singpolyma so even full flush after every staza could be worth it *if* that is safe in your context
  506. winfried EXI!
  507. Ge0rG you save 20% of traffic, but add some proper CPU load
  508. Ge0rG also RAM
  509. singpolyma for sure
  510. Zash something something ROI
  511. mathieui Ge0rG, which might be something of interest using a smartphone over an edge channel
  512. Zash As a server dev, I'm happy avoding the additional memory usage of compression
  513. Ge0rG raises hand: an approach that's maybe worth exploring is a pre-created "official" compression dictionary, containing all the relevant stanzas and namespaces. like http/brotli
  514. Ge0rG Tobias: ^
  515. singpolyma winfried: is there data on EXI vs compression similar to those numbers above?
  516. Ge0rG damn, toolate
  517. Tobias Ge0rG, sorry. we moved to the next item
  518. debacle Ge0rG in some cases compression actually reduces CPU load, because there is less data to TLS encrypt
  519. Ge0rG debacle: I know
  520. Ge0rG Is there somebody good at painting? We still need XMPP Compliance Badges
  521. winfried singpolyma: some years ago there were some japanese guys, who did metrics on EXI, it worked quite well
  522. Seve/SouL Yes! A lot of people!
  523. Seve/SouL Somebody writing that donw? Just to know what can we improve in the future for Summits and so on
  524. dwd Kev's writing this stuff down, yes.
  525. Ge0rG I wish for a working A/V and *especially* better audio, and it would be great if it would work over XMPP
  526. Tobias Seve/SouL, see etherpad
  527. alameyo https://ctftime.org/writeup/12913 here is kind of compression oracle attack - it was created as hacking challenge but you can get the idea
  528. Seve/SouL He has a point though :)
  529. dwd Seve/SouL, Who?
  530. Ge0rG Video worked and broke down synchronously for me and edhelas, so it must be on Cisco's end
  531. Seve/SouL dwd, working on the agenda before Summit (I don't know him unfortunately)
  532. Tobias what's at the top of the board?
  533. Zash "agenda before reading"
  534. MattJ Looks like "AGENDA FUR BY REAPING"
  535. Zash for?
  536. Tobias something in between i bet,...ta
  537. Zash Having the agenda prior to the summit so you can read up on XEPs and whatnot
  538. MattJ Ah
  539. Seve/SouL I had that experience last year, couldn't have maybe an exact opinion on something
  540. dwd That was suggested by Piotr of Erlang Solutions.
  541. Seve/SouL Ah I see, thanks dwd
  542. Seve/SouL What did happen to think about this information for new people attending?
  543. Zash Seve/SouL: What do you mean?
  544. Seve/SouL Zash, just curious about if this topic popped up because somebody did something wrong by mistake... Or something like that (Writing how the Summit works, I mean.) Anyway, I may have understood it in a different way, audio is ok but of course not real life.
  545. Zash Seve/SouL: No, we want to remember what was done well, so it's not forgotten and can repeated next year
  546. Seve/SouL Ok perfect, great
  547. Seve/SouL Thank you Zash
  548. Zash Seve/SouL: Assuming I understood your question
  549. Bartek has left
  550. flow Secretary: Add ProtoXEP SEX to the XSF Summit 2020 agenda
  551. flow Secretary: Vote for "ProtoXEP SEX" as agenda item
  552. Zash /invite Secretary
  553. flow Secretary: Add XEP-1234 as recommended read for the "ProtoXEP SEX" agenda item
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  561. kingu What is he selling?
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  573. alameyo so anyone, any plans for the rest of the evening?
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  583. Seve/SouL A more open
  584. Seve/SouL .
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  634. Zash Plans?
  635. Link Mauve ArchLinux food!
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  638. alameyo66 Zash: I would do something
  639. Zash Do something? After two days of meeting?
  640. pep. ArchLinux food!
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  651. alameyo66 so far I am improvising, that's the way to do things too
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  657. jjrh I'm up for food or drinks if people are meeting somewhere
  658. alameyo66 jjrh: I am at some street, let me figure out which one
  659. alameyo66 Lat 50.84829 Lon 4.35174
  660. goffi is there anybody going to delirium tonight?
  661. alameyo66 goffi: I intend that but a bit later
  662. goffi alameyo66: yeah not now, I'm working on my talks anyway, won't go before 20:00 at best.
  663. jjrh What's delirium?
  664. goffi jjrh: delirium café, where's the opening night is happening
  665. Zash has left
  666. Seve/SouL Never been there but I have heard that is quite full
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  668. goffi yes it is
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  670. goffi I don't plan to stay long, but 2 or 3 beers would be nice
  671. jjrh Damn 3000 beers to choose from
  672. goffi welcome to Belgium ;)
  673. alameyo66 I am at the quartier du centre
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  701. MattJ BTW if anyone is missing a (big) Thinkpad charger, we found one in the Thon hotel lobby and left it at the reception
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  703. mathieui not me but I could always do with one more
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  722. Tobias https://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Minutes_of_the_2019_Summit:_Day_two
  723. MattJ Thanks!
  724. MattJ Oh wow, you typed up all the retro + action items too, I was going to do that... so double thanks :)
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  727. Kev 👍
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  733. Tobias "Your personal Google+ account is going away on April 2, 2019" oh no. Life will never be the same again.
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  748. Zash .
  749. Zash Did anyone do a headcount?
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  751. Zash jonas’: (Re compression) You didn't try the "flush when the to/from attr changes" approach to compression?
  752. Zash Felt like there were more than 30 people at peak, but maybe that was just the room layout
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  755. ralphm dwd: lovely small square clean antique red flowery Dutch wooden storage box
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  757. Zash Oh no, the minutes pad has an infinite loop
  758. Zash ralphm: correct horse battery staple?
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  760. ralphm Discussion on the order of adjectives
  761. Zash Ah yes, that's got some specific order
  762. Holger goffi: We're there right now.
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  770. Guus Zash did you just share your password? 😱
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