Thursday, April 29, 2010
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[12:54:47] <koski> dudes, what's the current url to the JIRA ?
[12:56:25] <koski> All the ones i found/bookmarked do not work anymore.
[12:56:45] <Kev> Jira's not running at the moment.
[12:56:53] <Kev> Bear's going to upgrade and bring it back when he's got a moment.
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[13:05:10] <koski> ok
[13:05:20] <koski> Thanks.
[13:06:19] <Neustradamus> hi all, can you update mediawiki ?
[13:13:48] <stpeter> heh, I just noticed this in the council logs:

[14:02:24] <bear> wow - the more I do with GSoC the more I see that needs to be done. I have no idea how you managed to do this solo in the past!
[14:02:30] *bear hugs stpeter

thanks, bear!
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[13:29:36] <zooldk@gmail.com> the tech review meeting is in 5 min, right?
[13:29:42] <stpeter> yes
[13:29:47] <stpeter> at least, so says my calendar
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[13:29:56] <zooldk@gmail.com> good... phew.. thought I was late..
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[13:31:13] <stpeter> :)
[13:31:21] *stpeter heats up some lunch
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[13:31:44] <koski> beer o'clock here so i have time to get a pint
[13:32:16] <zooldk@gmail.com> me too.. mmmm good stout! :-)
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[13:35:26] <koski> It's time?
[13:35:32] <zooldk@gmail.com> +1
[13:36:54] <Florian> +1
[13:37:01] <koski> +1
[13:38:00] <Neustradamus> I am here but I am not in tech review team
[13:39:36] <stpeter> ok so who is in charge?
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[13:40:29] <zooldk@gmail.com> shouldn't it be Fabio Forno, the team lead?.. but I assume he is not here?
[13:40:32] <koski> Fabio should but He does not seem to be here.
[13:41:00] <stpeter> I put koski in charge for today :)
[13:41:06] <zooldk@gmail.com> +1
[13:41:08] <zooldk@gmail.com> :-)
[13:41:50] <zooldk@gmail.com> BTW: Jira is still down?.. still because of the security flaw?
[13:41:52] <stpeter> he said:

Now, what should we discuss during the meeting? Should we prepare a
list to make it successful? Here are my thoughts:
* How to use the created tool Jira better?
* How could we help stPeter more? (it seems to me that people still
wait actions from stPeter).
* Decide witch XEPs we could concentrate and how to follow those
"projects" (what was done right with
http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0045.html and what was done wrong).

[13:42:13] <stpeter> I think the Jira flaw applies only to Apache
[13:42:16] <stpeter> and we use lighttpd
[13:42:21] <koski> OK, let's start then.
[13:42:22] <zooldk@gmail.com> ok.. but it is still down
[13:42:26] <stpeter> bear said he would upgrade it
[13:42:31] <koski> [19:52:44] <Kev> Jira's not running at the moment.
[19:52:52] <Kev> Bear's going to upgrade and bring it back when he's got a moment.
[13:42:37] <zooldk@gmail.com> unless someone changed the address
[13:42:45] <zooldk@gmail.com> ok
[13:43:30] <koski> Yes. It's still down. Anybody part of the technical team to who could give bear a hand in this? I think he might be busy with the gSOC
[13:44:09] <zooldk@gmail.com> its probably just a tomcat that needs to be turned around, together with lighthttpd
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[13:45:45] <koski> OK, zooldk@gmail.com you are familiar with this stuff? Could you contact beer later on when you have time to ask if he needs a hand? (i'm afraid i'm useless in those admin stuff)
[13:46:34] <stpeter> koski: Kev and I will lean on bear and if he doesn't have time we'll find someone else to help
[13:46:44] <zooldk@gmail.com> yeah.. but I have no admin or insight in our infrastructure. But I know jira pretty well from work.. And we are using tomcat as a servlet container.
[13:47:04] <koski> stpeter: sounds like a plan!
[13:47:22] <koski> ok, next - When the Jira is back, how can we use it better?
[13:47:25] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: great
[13:47:35] *stpeter just poked the iteam list
[13:47:36] <koski> Step number one: start using it?
[13:47:46] <zooldk@gmail.com> how about sending out mails from jira when someone has filed an issue?..
[13:48:04] <stpeter> that already works
[13:48:06] <zooldk@gmail.com> to the correct group.. in our case the techreview, when an issue is filed there
[13:48:22] <bear> bah - I *knew* I was supposed to do something last night besides go to bed early
[13:48:24] <stpeter> hmm
[13:48:29] <stpeter> bear: heh
[13:48:34] <koski> bear: hah
[13:48:40] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: does it also send out mail to techreview when new one are arriving?.. have not seen one yeat
[13:48:42] <zooldk@gmail.com> yet
[13:48:42] <bear> i'm in a bunch of remote meetings today - i'll multitask on it while I look like i'm listening
[13:49:02] <stpeter> bear: zooldk (Steffen Larsen) said he can help if needed
[13:49:20] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: sure no problem..
[13:49:41] <stpeter> Tobias: your client is spamming me with tunes updates :P
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[13:50:14] <Tobias> stpeter: yeah...you know a person who could take care of that? :) i've been hearing there's someone working on psi over the summer
[13:50:19] <bear> stpeter - I will for sure raise the "help!" flag if I cannot do it in the next 3 hours
[13:50:25] <stpeter> bear: ok thanks!
[13:50:32] <zooldk@gmail.com> bear: cool
[13:50:35] <koski> great.
[13:50:50] <bear> it would be nice to have backup anyways - gsoc may make me rather busy in a couple weeks
[13:50:56] <stpeter> nod
[13:50:58] <Tobias> stpeter: but hey, i can hardly be worse than identi.ca :)
[13:51:47] <stpeter> as to using Jira, it would be good to log more tickets, but I think the main problem we face is editing the specs / schemas / etc. based on the tickets
[13:52:07] <stpeter> i.e., finding people who are comfortable editing the documents
[13:52:07] <koski> stpeter: yes, i was just about to write the same thing.
[13:52:31] <koski> How ever the good thing with Jira is that the ticket is always assigned to someone, so we know who is "on it".
[13:52:43] <zooldk@gmail.com> jira probably fit the infrastructure guys better, than this..
[13:52:57] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: jup..
[13:53:04] <koski> We should add posts like this to jira: http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/standards/2010-April/023371.html
[13:53:05] <Tobias> stpeter: i think with a different versioning system we could make collaboration to the XEPs easier, collaboration of any kind
[13:53:35] <stpeter> Tobias: do you think it would really help to use git?
[13:54:06] <zooldk@gmail.com> or mercurial.. its nice to have local commits... But I do not think that it will help that much
[13:54:12] <koski> Tobias, good point taken. Could you please write a mail about that to mailing list to start discussion about that?
[13:54:36] <Tobias> stpeter: it makes collaboration easier; ideally the changes just need to be reviewed shortly and can go online :)
[13:54:40] <koski> We are hardly not reaching decicion about that in this meeting. what do you think?
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[13:55:06] <Tobias> koski: it's already in the works :)
[13:55:13] <koski> ok :) great
[13:55:13] <stpeter> fixing up Experimental specs is easy, but we have more process for fixing up Draft & Final specs
[13:55:24] <stpeter> because the Council needs to approve things
[13:55:35] <Tobias> just ask Kev hard enough until he does it :) it's on his todo
[13:55:51] <bear> hmm, I need sudo privs on athena to do some of this
[13:56:03] <stpeter> bear: please hold
[13:56:07] <zooldk@gmail.com> how about making different states then in jira, for a workflow?.. for moving the spec along in exp. , to draft, to final etc.
[13:56:21] <stpeter> or ask Kev, isn't he team lead for Infrastructure? ;-)
[13:56:48] <koski> stpeter: heh, i was thinking the same.
[13:56:59] <stpeter> I think that most of the bug reports we get are for Draft and Final specs
[13:57:09] <bear> yea, my plea was more pointed to him than the active folks
[13:58:17] <stpeter> ideally, using Jira would enable us to move more quickly, or at least keep better track of things
[13:58:31] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: I agree
[13:58:38] <stpeter> but that's ideally :)
[13:58:59] <bear> oh wait - duh - /me reads his own README
[13:59:05] <stpeter> heh
[13:59:35] <bear> ok, jira up
[13:59:43] <stpeter> woot!
[13:59:46] <bear> i'll start working on the upgrades after you guys clear the back log
[13:59:53] <koski> Ok, so should we make a "rule of thumb" that every time a mailing thread leads to some short of "consensus" we create a jira ticket out of it?
[13:59:57] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:00:03] <koski> Mazel Tov!
[14:00:04] <bear> stpeter: do you have the login info for my.atlassian.com for the xsf?
[14:00:25] <bear> I will need to generate a new key for 4.* jira
[14:00:27] <stpeter> bear: I think that data is in /root/ on athena or somesuch
[14:00:31] *stpeter looks
[14:01:17] <stpeter> bear, it's at /home/atlassian
[14:01:28] <bear> ?? /me looks
[14:01:50] <bear> wow - am I the master of not seeing the obvious today
[14:01:52] <bear> thanks
[14:01:56] <stpeter> :)
[14:02:44] <stpeter> koski: I think it might work the other way -- people submit tickets, we have list discussion or groupchat or whatever, then update the ticket with the consensus (text, schema fix, etc.)
[14:03:10] <koski> stpeter: good point.
[14:03:11] <stpeter> e.g., the other someone poked me about a feature that is missing from XEP-0249
[14:03:38] <koski> (i just tried to create a ticket. I cannot modify it and it got directly assigned to stpeter.
[14:03:55] <stpeter> i.e., XEP-0249 doesn't support <continue/> (as XEP-0045 does)
[14:04:35] <stpeter> koski: http://tracker.xmpp.org/browse/SPEC-11 ?
[14:04:43] <koski> Yep.
[14:04:57] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:05:14] <koski> stpeter: sorry, i did not mean to assign it to you. :)
[14:05:16] <zooldk@gmail.com> hey its up and running
[14:05:30] <stpeter> koski: it seems that all spec issues are automatically assigned to me
[14:05:44] <koski> You want to change this? :)
[14:06:18] <koski> Should we took couple of guys who would be the default assignee's and those guys would take care that the created tickets are discussed in the mailing list, chatroom, etc?
[14:06:36] <zooldk@gmail.com> could be a good idea..
[14:06:40] <koski> And not turned out to be "zombies".
[14:06:42] <zooldk@gmail.com> to take the load off
[14:07:36] <stpeter> koski: I just made you a project administrator for the SPEC project
[14:08:39] <stpeter> so I think we need to assign roles to more people
[14:08:57] <stpeter> e.g., everyone on the tech review team should be a developer on the SPEC issues project
[14:09:03] <koski> ok, cool. I was just about to write that i have an half an hour per week to give time to take a look at the tickets and give a push to them.
[14:09:05] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: really good idea
[14:09:09] <stpeter> that means you can edit issues, etc.
[14:09:09] <koski> stpeter: good point.
[14:09:37] <stpeter> I don't know how to change the default assignee
[14:09:58] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:10:22] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: are you registered at the tracker site?
[14:10:36] <koski> stpeter: should i be able to edit the ticket?
[14:10:43] <stpeter> koski: I thinjk so
[14:11:11] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: I am on the jira site
[14:11:22] <koski> it seems that i only got "Delete" option more.
[14:11:48] <zooldk@gmail.com> http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/JIRA/Managing+Project+Role+Membership
[14:11:56] <koski> Do you guys think it would make sense to have that "assign this ticket to me" option enabled? At least i don't have it.
[14:12:24] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: I just have to remember the user/pass.. just got a new laptop! :-)
[14:12:37] <koski> I think that's the one of the best part in jira: it's always clear who is or at least should be "working on it"
[14:12:52] <stpeter> koski: I think so
[14:12:57] <stpeter> but I'm not sure how to do that
[14:13:37] <koski> stpeter: i'm no jira admin either. sorry.
[14:13:53] <stpeter> maybe bear knows :)
[14:14:07] <koski> stpeter: was hoping the same.
[14:14:22] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: what are you looking for?
[14:14:31] <koski> We could change the "Component/s:" field to XEP . What do you guys think?
[14:14:41] <stpeter> ?
[14:14:41] <zooldk@gmail.com> +1
[14:14:42] <koski> zooldk@gmail.com: that I could assign a ticket to me or modify it.
[14:14:54] <stpeter> not sure what the Components field is
[14:14:58] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:15:02] <koski> stpeter: when creating a ticket, it asks for a "component".
[14:15:10] <koski> http://athena.jabber.org:18081/browse/SPEC-11
[14:15:39] <koski> if you check that, now the "component/s" "versions" and "fix versions" are empty.
[14:15:47] <koski> or "None".
[14:15:59] <zooldk@gmail.com> we are using component for defining the piece of area/part of software we are working on..
[14:15:59] <koski> The component at least does not serve a purpose for us, right?
[14:16:23] <zooldk@gmail.com> so for us it could be: core, xep etc.
[14:16:55] <stpeter> also might be schemas, registries, perhaps some others
[14:17:05] <zooldk@gmail.com> or we could define each XEP as a component.. its then easier to filter in jira
[14:17:12] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: yes
[14:17:26] <zooldk@gmail.com> depends of the level of detail
[14:19:11] <koski> OK. Maybe we leave that to the future and see first how we start to use the Jira. What do you think guys?
[14:19:57] <zooldk@gmail.com> yes.. because now we only have a few issue
[14:19:59] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:20:00] <koski> To start working with Jira, i think we need help from Bear or other admins to help us to set the rights correclty. So that others can modify/close and work with the tickets than stpeter. stpeter do you agree?
[14:20:00] <zooldk@gmail.com> issues
[14:20:29] <koski> stpeter: i have understood you are busy busy busy lately with the IETF. Right?
[14:23:29] <stpeter> koski: yes, we need to distribute the permissions so that more people can do things
[14:23:39] <stpeter> koski: I always have a little time, but not very much right now
[14:24:49] <stpeter> however, I want to help the tech review team succeed because otherwise people will depend on me to do things, and if I don't do them our work will stall
[14:25:00] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:25:20] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: plus one on that one..
[14:25:29] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: you need help of course..
[14:25:30] <koski> stpeter: noted. That's why i'm ready to help you. But i know that the first steps to start moving stuff to someone else's responsibility usually takes a bit more time.
[14:25:32] <stpeter> although sometimes I think it would be good to take a rest for a few years so that developers could catch up with all the specs ;-)
[14:25:44] <koski> stpeter: :-D
[14:26:14] <zooldk@gmail.com> me hungry... need food
[14:26:14] *waqas notes that some of the specs are lagging behind ^^
[14:26:32] <stpeter> koski: you should have admin privs for the SPEC project now, so hopefully you can make some people Developers
[14:26:45] <stpeter> waqas: I can make you a Developer too :P
[14:26:48] <stpeter> waqas: which ones?
[14:27:00] <koski> stpeter: let me check what i can break after this MUC Meeting
[14:27:06] <stpeter> koski: ok
[14:27:18] <waqas> stpeter: I have been gathering feedback on a number of specs. MUC included.
[14:27:24] <stpeter> waqas: ok good
[14:27:36] <stpeter> waqas: I have lots of edits on MUC but I haven't entered them yet :(
[14:27:48] <stpeter> maybe I should scan them in :P
[14:28:08] <zooldk@gmail.com> i have some stuff about muji (multi-user jingle).. who is up for discussing that at some time?
[14:28:19] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: yeah that needs a lot of work
[14:28:29] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: yup.. alot.
[14:28:37] <stpeter> I poked the Collabora guys about that in January or so, but no progress yet
[14:28:47] <stpeter> if I had the time I'd be tempted just to start editing the spec :P
[14:28:57] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: but we do not have to wait for them..
[14:29:52] <zooldk@gmail.com> BTW: anyone know which GSOC project that was accepted?
[14:30:00] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:30:17] <stpeter> bear knows :)
[14:30:21] <bear> it's at the bottom of this page: http://socghop.appspot.com/gsoc/org/home/google/gsoc2010/xsf
[14:30:34] <zooldk@gmail.com> ha ha.. shh.. don't disturb him :-)
[14:30:44] <bear> :)
[14:31:14] <koski> What do you guys say that if i write to the review-team mailing list descriptions about how the components could be named: XEP, Core, etc... Then we could assign Leaders to all these "components". The leader of the component would take care that there is any ticket that becomes a zombie.
[14:31:25] <zooldk@gmail.com> bear: thanks.. interesting
[14:32:10] <stpeter> koski: I think most of the tickets will be about XEPs, and a few will be about schemas or registries
[14:32:34] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: yes.. my ideas as well.. Maybe we can use some of the stuff we already have as interests on the wiki: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Review_team .. like: jingle, core, s2s, scalability, pubsub, etc.
[14:32:49] <stpeter> nod
[14:32:51] <koski> zooldk@gmail.com: good idea.
[14:32:53] <stpeter> that might be more useful
[14:33:12] <stpeter> so someone to watch over Jingle stuff, someone else for BOSH, and so on
[14:33:23] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: si! :-)
[14:33:28] <stpeter> see also http://xmpp.org/tech/
[14:33:30] <koski> ok, great. zooldk@gmail.com could you write about this to the mailing list? You seem to have good idea about that.
[14:33:49] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski... ok. I'll do that later today then.
[14:34:02] <koski> i could too ofcourse, but it's stupid for me to write badly a good idea to the mailing list :)
[14:34:13] <koski> I'm not lazy! :)
[14:34:14] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: no prob.
[14:34:37] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: can I do these components in jira as well?.. or will you?
[14:35:01] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:35:10] <koski> zooldk@gmail.com: let's do couple based on the mail as a example for people and then let's finish them when we agree on the mailing list?
[14:35:10] <stpeter> I think we would have MUC, Jingle, PubSub, BOSH, s2s, core, i18n, security, and perhaps a few others
[14:35:20] <zooldk@gmail.com> I am still looking for my user/pass.... and waiting for an email
[14:35:26] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: :)
[14:35:47] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: ok
[14:35:52] <stpeter> we also need to make sure that all tech review team members have Jira accounts, then we can set them up with the right permissions
[14:36:05] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: yes
[14:36:59] <stpeter> is that enough for today?
[14:37:13] <stpeter> I'm happy to stay here and keep chatting, of course :)
[14:37:38] <koski> stpeter: yes, i think we did 2/3 "points".
[14:38:07] <stpeter> I think we need a new "group" in Jira
[14:38:08] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: BTW is there some way that we could alter our svn folders?.. because I have made some xsd validation script, but it is hard to map the schemas (xmpp/trunk/schemas) when they are named muc.xsd instead of xep-0045.xsd.

[14:38:15] <stpeter> existing groups are iteam and commteam
[14:38:28] <koski> i think we have some ideas how to make the Jira usage better. Good. stpeter, do you think this will help you a bit at least in the future?
[14:38:57] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: so we agree that I should write to the tech team about the new jira components?
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[14:39:53] <koski> zooldk@gmail.com: +1
[14:40:00] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: okie
[14:40:01] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:40:09] <stpeter> ok
[14:40:14] <stpeter> I created a techreview group
[14:40:18] <stpeter> now I'll add some people to it
[14:40:19] <koski> zooldk@gmail.com: i can help you to set them up. Just contact me when you have time to start for that.
[14:40:24] <koski> stpeter: great
[14:40:41] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: I need a login firstly
[14:40:44] <zooldk@gmail.com> :-)
[14:41:16] <stpeter> I don't know what it means to be part of a group, but we'll find out :)
[14:41:30] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: yeah.. I'll think I IM you later.. and then we'll find out what to do
[14:43:42] <Kev> stpeter: you can assign groups to ACLs instead of people.
[14:43:46] <stpeter> right
[14:43:49] <stpeter> just figured that out
[14:44:02] <stpeter> so now anyone in the techreview group is automatically a SPEC developer
[14:44:17] <zooldk@gmail.com> wuhuuu
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[14:45:02] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:45:15] <stpeter> do we want to make issues "Unassigned" by default so that I don't need to re-assign them?
[14:45:29] <Kev> Seems sane.
[14:45:34] <koski> =1
[14:45:35] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: good idea
[14:45:40] <koski> +1
[14:45:45] <stpeter> done
[14:46:01] <stpeter> so we've made a bit of progress here
[14:46:05] <zooldk@gmail.com> ha ha
[14:46:48] <stpeter> Jira is back, tech review people can edit SPEC issues, etc.
[14:47:01] <zooldk@gmail.com> (thumbs up!)
[14:47:02] <stpeter> now we need all tech review team members to register with Jira
[14:47:11] <koski> stpeter: a proposal. Do you think you would have time in coming months to write a example how you would see the "spec review" working and we could talk about that in mailing list and in the next meeting? (the review you started with the MUC XEP). I think you had a very good idea there. It was just a shame it did not really catch up fire and support from others.
[14:47:12] <stpeter> and we can assign them all to the techreview group
[14:47:34] <koski> stpeter: i can write about that in mailing list and kick the sleepy ones.
[14:47:40] <stpeter> koski: part of the problem was that XEP-0045 is too big -- it would have been better to start with a smaller spec
[14:47:48] <stpeter> koski: ok thanks!
[14:48:08] <stpeter> koski: but yet I can do that
[14:48:09] <stpeter> brb
[14:48:50] <koski> stpeter: yes, this is also why i'm kindly asking you to write it since you know the best what "succeed and what not and why". Sorry but you are still the best in this :D
[14:48:59] <waqas_> Will we discuss XEP-0045 in this meeting?
[14:49:14] <zooldk@gmail.com> sorry guys.. I need some food now. If you are not finished in the next 10 min. then talk to you a bit later..
[14:50:02] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:50:18] <koski> waqas_: it was not planned to discuss about the XEP itself. But we can of course.
[14:51:27] <waqas_> Is there a meeting planned for it?
[14:52:04] <koski> waqas_: as far as I know, no.
[14:52:58] <stpeter> koski: the members of the techreview group in Jira are now you, me, Kev, Waqas, Peter Mount, Safa, Steffen (zool), Fabio, Ali, and Luca -- so we need Fritzy, Joe Maissel, and Alex Malgaroli to register at Jira and tell us their usernames so that we can add them to the techreview group
[14:53:36] *** MiGri shows as "online" and his status message is "This conversation may be monitored for quality assurance or security purposes. ;)"
[14:53:49] <koski> stpeter: sir, yes sir!
[14:54:09] <koski> stpeter: I'll handle that
[14:54:19] <stpeter> koski: you and Fabio are admins for the SPEC project but I don't think you can edit the techreview group
[14:54:27] <stpeter> not sure
[14:54:31] *stpeter is just learning Jira
[14:54:35] <koski> let me check
[14:54:46] <stpeter> waqas_: we can schedule a meeting or two or three about MUC
[14:55:03] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[14:56:25] <stpeter> but I think we've made some progress today and we can consider this meeting to be ended (we've been talking for almost 1.5 hours) :)
[14:56:26] <koski> stpeter: you were right. I cannot modify the group
[14:56:42] <koski> stpeter: yes. I was just about to write the same.
[14:56:50] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: I've ordered my password for JIRA but haven't received an email yet? do the postfix run on the server or?
[15:00:02] <stpeter> koski: ok
[15:00:03] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[15:00:16] <stpeter> koski: well, have only three more people to add, that's easy enough for me to do
[15:00:57] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: I can reset your password and then you can change it
[15:01:10] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: please... :-)
[15:01:44] <zooldk@gmail.com> just stranged that I havent received any by email yet
[15:01:48] <zooldk@gmail.com> strange
[15:02:27] <stpeter> yeah
[15:02:29] <stpeter> not sure why
[15:02:35] <stpeter> I do receive emails from Jira
[15:02:47] <stpeter> so it is set up correctly to send email
[15:02:52] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: see PM for password
[15:04:02] <stpeter> BTW the logs for this meeting are at http://xmpp.org:5290/muc_log/muc.xmpp.org/xsf/100429/
[15:04:10] <koski> stpeter: i'll write to the list about the group and ask the missing ones to sign in and notify you?
[15:04:11] <zooldk@gmail.com> the email seems correct :-)
[15:04:32] <stpeter> koski: they can reply to the list mail with their usernames
[15:04:40] <zooldk@gmail.com> and i'll write about the JIRA components..
[15:04:44] <koski> stpeter: ok
[15:04:51] <zooldk@gmail.com> is it ok if I do it tomorrow?
[15:05:03] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[15:05:07] <stpeter> sure
[15:05:39] <koski> zooldk@gmail.com: sure, of course. we are not in a hurry in this.
[15:05:46] <zooldk@gmail.com> ok.. hopefully I'll have the password then.. ;-)
[15:06:13] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: I sent you the password via private message
[15:06:44] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: me don't see.....

[15:06:52] <koski> do we write any meeting minutes about that or just notify the mail thread of "call for a meeting" with the muc_log link? :)
[15:07:00] <stpeter> oh
[15:07:24] <stpeter> koski: an informal report is fine, no official minutes needed I suppose
[15:07:29] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: Gmail issues
[15:07:33] <koski> stpeter: agree
[15:07:35] <zooldk@gmail.com> ha ha.. ok
[15:08:03] <koski> stpeter: zooldk@gmail.com: yes, was fighting with those whole day today at work. there is something "weird" happening in google.
[15:08:12] <koski> at google even...
[15:08:55] <zooldk@gmail.com> ok.. I've had no problems with gmail.com lately..
[15:09:12] <stpeter> who receives email for SPEC issues?
[15:09:13] <zooldk@gmail.com> maybe I should start using my @jabber.org account instead for these meetings
[15:09:33] <koski> stpeter: who will receive or who is receiving?
[15:09:35] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: shouldn't it be all of the tech review group?
[15:09:46] <stpeter> who is receiving now?
[15:09:50] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: I think so
[15:09:56] <stpeter> I just created SPEC-13
[15:10:00] <zooldk@gmail.com> Then we are notified..
[15:10:04] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[15:10:04] <zooldk@gmail.com> could be nice..
[15:10:14] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: yes that's the way it should be
[15:10:22] <koski> i did not receive. Yet at least.
[15:10:30] <zooldk@gmail.com> me neither
[15:10:37] <zooldk@gmail.com> thats what I said earlier
[15:10:45] <stpeter> I received it
[15:10:48] <zooldk@gmail.com> hmmm
[15:10:52] <koski> i only received for the ones i created. Or assigned myself as one.
[15:10:53] <zooldk@gmail.com> gmail issues? ;-)
[15:11:16] <koski> i got notifications of SPEC-11 and 12 that i created.
[15:11:22] <zooldk@gmail.com> when it is only a few issues that we have at the moment, every one in the tech review group should receive it
[15:11:36] <stpeter> aha
[15:11:41] <stpeter> I found the config option for this
[15:11:44] <koski> so the "creator" and the assignee receives the messages, but not others. i think
[15:11:47] <koski> stpeter: good :)
[15:11:54] <zooldk@gmail.com> change please. :-)
[15:12:08] <bear> google was down completely for some about an hour ago
[15:12:24] <zooldk@gmail.com> bear: wow really?? I did not notice a thing
[15:12:58] <koski> bear: in france there were problems during the whole day.
[15:13:01] <Florian> I guess someone lost their job :)
[15:13:04] <koski> with google that is.
[15:13:11] <bear> it seems to be regional - at least according to my twitter/identica social graph
[15:13:40] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: wheei my JIRA login worked. thanks
[15:14:06] <zooldk@gmail.com> no probs in Denmark
[15:14:12] <zooldk@gmail.com> for google that is
[15:15:04] *** zooldk@gmail.com shows as "online" and his status message is "Code ramblings: http://www.zool.dk"
[15:15:08] <stpeter> oh
[15:15:10] <stpeter> hmmmmm
[15:15:19] <zooldk@gmail.com> what is the default priority of the issues?
[15:15:29] <zooldk@gmail.com> and who can change them
[15:15:31] <stpeter> I might have just messed up the config
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[15:16:08] *stpeter fixes
[15:16:24] <zooldk@gmail.com> it could also nice to have affects and fix version on the XEPs...
[15:16:46] <zooldk@gmail.com> that relates to the versions of the XEP specs
[15:17:19] <zooldk@gmail.com> so people can track when the implementation has changed in the spec
[15:17:58] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: I think that any Developer should be able to change priority etc.
[15:18:12] <stpeter> and all members of the techreview group are Developers for the SPEC project
[15:18:26] <zooldk@gmail.com> stpeter: ok
[15:18:28] <stpeter> if it doesn't work that way, we can fix it in the config
[15:18:38] *stpeter is discovering that Jira is infinitely configurable
[15:18:46] <zooldk@gmail.com> I know!
[15:18:48] <zooldk@gmail.com> been there
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[15:21:38] <zooldk@gmail.com> Guys.. I've out of where.. I'll game a bit before my girlfried gets home. :-)
[15:22:07] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: talk to you later about the components.. right?
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[15:23:04] <koski> zooldk@gmail.com: deal. i might be very busy tomorrow so during the weekend or beginning of the next week, don't hesitate to kick me.
[15:23:32] <zooldk@gmail.com> koski: ok, deal.. later
[15:23:38] <zooldk@gmail.com> cheers all of you!
[15:23:43] <bear> jira can be excellent in implementing the death-by-1000-cuts mode for admins
[15:23:44] <stpeter> ok I modified the default notification scheme so that project developers receive notiications
[15:23:48] <stpeter> zooldk@gmail.com: thanks!
[15:23:57] <stpeter> bear: yea
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[15:28:35] <stpeter> hi petermount
[15:28:43] <petermount> i know i'm late but this is the first chance i've got to get online tonight :-(
[15:28:48] <petermount> hi peter
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[15:29:09] <stpeter> petermount: no worries, we're all doing the best we can :)
[15:29:12] *petermount blames the local train company :-(
[15:29:43] <petermount> so what have I missed? :-)
[15:29:58] <stpeter> we made some progress on Jira for issue tracking
[15:30:22] <petermount> thats always good
[15:30:40] <stpeter> bear got Jira running again, I created a new Jira group for all techreview members, and you'll be receiving more Jira emails soon because I updated the notification scheme
[15:31:09] <stpeter> Tuomas and Steffen will be sending email to the techreview@xmpp.org list regarding some further action items
[15:31:13] <petermount> have you patched for the security issue from last week?
[15:31:40] <stpeter> petermount: I think bear did -- but in any case the security issue was (AFAIK) related to Apache and we run lighttpd
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[15:33:03] <petermount> iirc it was in jira itself rather than outside - at least when I saw it when kenai did the update (which host my jira instances)
[15:33:23] <stpeter> petermount: I think bear took care of this but he'll know for sure
[15:33:24] <petermount> will double check
[15:33:28] <petermount> np
[15:33:56] <petermount> did anything get said about pubsub?
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[15:34:55] <bear> petermount - the security issue is "fixed" in so far as xsf's implementation isn't directly impacted but i'm also taking the time to upgrade to 4.*
[15:36:18] <petermount> bear: ok, at work we use jira and i notified them as soon as i heard from my provider - if we are up to date then no problem - at least we are up to date ;-)
[15:36:44] *petermount thinks its better to be safe 99% of the time ;-)
[15:37:32] <bear> agreed - we use jira at my old work place so I used their support account to call in and review the raw details
[15:37:46] <bear> and found that it was a specific apache+jira interaction
[15:37:48] <stpeter> petermount: indeed
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[15:38:05] <bear> but yes, being 99.9% sure is what is driving the 4.* upgrade
[15:38:10] <petermount> ah crafty bear - at my work they left their a/c to expire :-S
[15:38:23] <bear> ick
[15:38:30] <petermount> yep ick
[15:38:38] <bear> I always build into the quote a full year of support
[15:38:47] <bear> so they can't let it lapse
[15:39:19] <petermount> we here sould surely get an o/s account shouldnt we? if not why dont we ask them?
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[15:39:43] <stpeter> we have one
[15:39:53] <petermount> thats goos
[15:40:29] <petermount> good even :-S
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[15:42:18] <petermount> what I wanted to find out was what we are planning on reviewing - recently it's been busy for a lot of us but for me it's going to get quieter
[15:42:45] <stpeter> I'm hoping we can finish the MUC review :)
[15:42:56] <petermount> and i've been holding back on pubsub because I remembered we were planning on pubsub after muc
[15:43:13] <stpeter> yeah
[15:43:14] <stpeter> well
[15:43:23] <stpeter> first we need to push out version 1.13 of XEP-0060 :)
[15:43:36] <stpeter> we'll have a never-ending pubsub review :P
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[15:44:18] <petermount> peter: yes I think muc needs finishing - at least both of us have been held back for varioes reasons - you more than me ;-\)
[15:44:28] <petermount> yep
[15:46:20] <stpeter> petermount: clearly I need to set aside a bit of time each week to key in the changes I've already marked on my paper copy of XEP-0045
[15:46:25] <petermount> peter: the main reason i'm interested in pubsub in the next month or so is that I need to implement from scratch - which to me is an ideal time to do a review - I can hold it back currently but to me its ideal as it means we have a reference-point from start to finish
[15:46:42] *stpeter nods
[15:46:48] <petermount> stpeter: I need to catch up
[15:48:07] <stpeter> and I am also reviewing draft-ietf-xmpp-3920bis these days because we have an August deadline to send that to the IESG for advancement
[15:48:49] <petermount> i've been the emails - it's a long weekend here in the uk so I should get a chance to catch up on that
[15:49:03] <stpeter> see http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/xmpp/current/msg00705.html for details
[15:50:53] <koski> MUC, PubSub and draft-ietf-xmpp-3920bis ... Why did you start from the shortest and the most simplest ones?
[15:52:04] <petermount> muc the simplest?
[15:52:25] <petermount> ;-)
[15:52:29] <stpeter> and I have another 800 pages of Internet-Drafts to review and comment on by next Thursday for my IESG responsibilities
[15:52:56] <koski> petermount: it was ment to be a "sarcastic joke" :)
[15:53:19] <petermount> grr not even home and about to restart part of work - one mo
[15:53:21] <stpeter> I also have a marked-up copy of XEP-0050
[15:53:56] <koski> stpeter: i'm sure you looked like a human last time i saw you. But you must be a machine...
[15:54:03] <stpeter> haha
[15:54:42] <stpeter> koski: thanks for the message to the list~!
[15:55:40] <koski> no worries, i hope i got the main points to get right people interested.
[15:56:35] <stpeter> yep
[15:56:42] <stpeter> I sent a corrected URL :)
[15:56:46] <stpeter> but other than that it looks good
[15:57:11] <koski> Thanks.
[15:58:07] <petermount> koski: recently it seems like i'm a machine :-|(
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[16:00:39] <petermount> the last couple of months have been wiped out, hence why i've been quiet here - even had some public releases from the begining of march i'm only going to do finally this weekend :-( sob
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[16:01:06] <stpeter> ouch
[16:01:15] <stpeter> yeah, everyone is so busy
[16:01:56] <petermount> and you thought you would be with the ietf?
[16:03:14] *petermount being sarcastic there ;-)
[16:03:50] <petermount> the ITEF must be a real drain - but you havent eased off yet
[16:04:43] <stpeter> petermount: it's about an extra 30 hours a week
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[16:05:01] <stpeter> so now I work 70-80 hours a week
[16:05:03] *stpeter shrugs
[16:06:48] <petermount> stpeter: not good :-(
[16:09:13] <stpeter> I'm a workaholic, so it's not that bad
[16:09:28] <stpeter> but I'm getting a bit old for this kind of thing ;-)
[16:09:51] <petermount> stpeter: same here ;-)
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[16:11:31] <bear> pfft - your both probably younger than me
[16:11:45] <petermount> Occasionally I still the "Post midnight" programming session - but can't so that too often these days
[16:12:37] <petermount> bear: do you spend 6hrs a day commuting? & thats when it work ok :-(
[16:12:51] <bear> true - one of the reasons I love working from home
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[16:13:47] <petermount> bear: not supposed to but I try to once a week ;-)
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[16:18:21] <petermount> o...k...
[16:18:47] <petermount> just read the email about what got said during the meeting
[16:20:16] <petermount> & unless my mail has got filtered most of it was helping taking work load (quite rightly) from peter?
[16:21:09] <koski> yes, and to find a ways to wake up the "team" and start working.
[16:21:47] <koski> everybody wanted jira, now let's use it :D
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[16:23:36] <petermount> yes jira is now there, so lets use it.
[16:23:54] <petermount> but jira isnt the only tool there though
[16:25:10] *petermount remembers the 'tool' threads from a couple of months ago :-S
[16:26:51] <stpeter> tools discussions never end....
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[16:27:01] <koski> yes.
[16:27:23] <petermount> they never doo ;-(
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[16:29:46] <koski> but now i will end this discussion and will moge the dreamworld to catch some beautiful Fairies.
[16:30:03] <koski> moge .... move to even ...
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[16:30:17] <petermount> koski: hehe
[16:30:46] <koski> have a good end of the day guys!
[16:30:51] <koski> Cheers! Bye!
[16:31:09] <petermount> i'm going to have to go offline - this netbook only has a limited livetime without power - and it's done good tonight
[16:31:20] <petermount> koski: catch you lateer
[16:32:10] <stpeter> thanks guys
[16:32:46] <petermount> stpeter: np, we'll probably catchup when we'll all aroun
[16:33:35] <petermount> i need to go offline shortly as my netbook's battery is now in the red - unless i get the mac out :-(
[16:34:26] <koski> night!
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[16:35:50] <petermount> catch you all later
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