Wednesday, October 20, 2010
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
October
Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat Sun
        1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
             
XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

[06:52:50] *** Tobias has joined the room
[06:53:20] *** bear has left the room
[06:54:12] *** abhinavsingh has joined the room
[07:17:58] *** abhinavsingh shows as "away" and his status message is "#PubSub (http://twitter.com/#search/#PubSub) support in #Jaxl (http://twitter.com/#search/#Jaxl) #XMPP (http://twitter.com/#search/#XMPP) #PHP (http://twitter.com/#search/#PHP) library checked into Master @github (http://twitter.com/github) http://github.com/abhinavsingh/JAXL "
[07:25:15] *** Tobias has left the room
[07:48:55] *** abhinavsingh shows as "away" and his status message is "#PubSub (http://twitter.com/#search/#PubSub) support in #Jaxl (http://twitter.com/#search/#Jaxl) #XMPP (http://twitter.com/#search/#XMPP) #PHP (http://twitter.com/#search/#PHP) library checked into Master @github (http://twitter.com/github) http://github.com/abhinavsingh/JAXL "
[08:01:26] *** abhinavsingh shows as "away" and his status message is "#PubSub (http://twitter.com/#search/#PubSub) support in #Jaxl (http://twitter.com/#search/#Jaxl) #XMPP (http://twitter.com/#search/#XMPP) #PHP (http://twitter.com/#search/#PHP) library checked into Master @github (http://twitter.com/github) http://github.com/abhinavsingh/JAXL "
[08:04:49] *** abhinavsingh shows as "away" and his status message is "#PubSub (http://twitter.com/#search/#PubSub) support in #Jaxl (http://twitter.com/#search/#Jaxl) #XMPP (http://twitter.com/#search/#XMPP) #PHP (http://twitter.com/#search/#PHP) library checked into Master @github (http://twitter.com/github) http://github.com/abhinavsingh/JAXL "
[08:16:03] *** Tobias has joined the room
[09:14:37] *** abhinavsingh has left the room
[09:18:56] *** Tobias has left the room
[09:19:17] *** luca tagliaferri has joined the room
[09:42:02] *** Tobias has joined the room
[09:44:02] *** luca tagliaferri has left the room
[09:44:29] *** luca tagliaferri has joined the room
[09:49:50] *** Tobias has left the room
[10:30:04] *** luca tagliaferri shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[10:33:13] *** luca tagliaferri shows as "online"
[10:39:13] *** Tobias has joined the room
[11:20:37] *** luca tagliaferri has left the room
[11:20:48] *** Kooda has joined the room
[11:43:34] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[11:54:57] *** luca tagliaferri has joined the room
[12:03:30] *** Tobias has left the room
[12:11:57] *** luca tagliaferri shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:22:30] *** Tobias has joined the room
[12:25:16] *** bear has joined the room
[12:25:34] *** bear shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[12:31:57] *** luca tagliaferri shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:45:09] *** Kooda has left the room
[12:45:34] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:46:50] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[12:51:19] *** Kooda has joined the room
[12:53:46] *** Kooda has left the room
[12:54:00] *** Kooda has joined the room
[12:56:51] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[12:57:44] *** Tobias shows as "online"
[13:03:55] *** Tobias has left the room
[13:25:55] *** luca tagliaferri shows as "online"
[13:44:42] *** Neustradamus has joined the room
[15:05:06] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:14:27] *** stpeter has left the room
[15:15:46] *** stpeter has joined the room
[15:58:43] *** abhinavsingh has joined the room
[16:01:03] *** luca tagliaferri has left the room
[16:05:11] *** abhinavsingh has left the room
[16:13:03] *** Nÿco has joined the room
[16:13:11] *** Nÿco has left the room
[16:25:01] *** Tobias has joined the room
[16:25:30] *** Kooda shows as "xa" and his status message is "douche"
[16:45:57] *** Nÿco has joined the room
[16:46:08] <Nÿco> hi
[16:57:42] <Nÿco> http://typewith.me/YPtgqcetvL
[16:58:15] *** Kev has joined the room
[16:58:16] *** Kev shows as "online"
[17:03:35] <stpeter> I think we begin in 1 hour, no?
[17:04:01] <stpeter> hmph
[17:04:05] <stpeter> maybe not :|
[17:06:24] *** intosi@ik.nu has joined the room
[17:08:32] <Nÿco> I cannot be there in an hour, sorry
[17:08:44] <Nÿco> it is so hard to organize a Board meeting!... ;-)
[17:09:45] <stpeter> heh
[17:09:55] <stpeter> who is online? we can poke them about showing up
[17:10:26] <stpeter> I don't see Will online
[17:10:36] <stpeter> Florian is around
[17:10:56] <stpeter> and Jack is away
[17:15:18] *** Jehan has joined the room
[17:15:56] <Jehan> Hello.
[17:16:20] *** Florian has joined the room
[17:16:27] <Florian> yhello
[17:17:16] <stpeter> hi Florian
[17:17:20] <stpeter> and Jehan
[17:17:30] <stpeter> I pinged Jack but he is away
[17:17:33] <Florian> yeah
[17:17:36] <Jehan> Hi Peter. And Florian. ;-)
[17:17:45] <Florian> Will seems to be away too
[17:18:27] <Nÿco> well... what should we discuss about
[17:18:53] <stpeter> I didn't see Will online
[17:18:58] <Nÿco> is the agenda (copied-pasted from last minutes) ok?
[17:19:04] <stpeter> yes
[17:19:10] <Nÿco> so 1/
[17:19:20] <Nÿco> - New Website

[17:19:26] <Nÿco> but Will's not here
[17:19:29] <Nÿco> next item?
[17:19:31] <stpeter> heh
[17:19:33] <stpeter> well
[17:19:36] <Nÿco> 2/ Sponsors
[17:19:41] <stpeter> bear volunteered to maintain some pages
[17:19:46] <stpeter> e.g., the software pages
[17:20:06] *** intosi@ik.nu shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:20:13] *** intosi@ik.nu shows as "online"
[17:20:16] <Kev> I've given bear access to do that.
[17:20:17] <stpeter> Jehan sent some bug reports but I don't know if those were fixed
[17:20:18] <stpeter> yes
[17:20:24] <stpeter> thanks, Kev
[17:21:40] <stpeter> and I've been pinging some folks about the services page, which I'm way behind on fixing
[17:21:44] <stpeter> or updating, rather
[17:22:08] <Florian> we've got our first sponsor Voxeo
[17:22:13] <Florian> we just need to put them on the site
[17:22:13] <stpeter> yeah
[17:22:18] <stpeter> super
[17:22:36] <stpeter> next week I will contact some other potential sponsors
[17:22:48] <stpeter> or maybe this Friday
[17:22:54] *stpeter puts it on his calendar
[17:23:03] <Florian> :)
[17:23:29] <stpeter> ok
[17:23:40] <Florian> I'll bug Nokia once more
[17:23:57] <stpeter> Nÿco: I'm sorry about the time confusion
[17:24:06] <Nÿco> no pb
[17:24:11] <Nÿco> it's fixed now ;-)
[17:25:00] <stpeter> :)
[17:25:02] *** intosi@ik.nu has left the room
[17:25:10] <stpeter> so I think that's sponsors
[17:25:12] <stpeter> next?
[17:26:28] *** Kooda shows as "online"
[17:27:20] <Nÿco> - Roadmap update

[17:28:16] <stpeter> ah yes
[17:29:13] <stpeter> Florian was going to send a summary to the members@ list
[17:29:15] <Nÿco> have we summarized the discussions?
[17:29:17] <Nÿco> ok
[17:29:25] <Nÿco> is it a duty of the next Board?
[17:29:45] <stpeter> well Florian can send the summary as a regular member :)
[17:29:56] <Nÿco> http://typewith.me/YPtgqcetvL
[17:30:14] <Nÿco> I mean, a duty to re-write and supervise?
[17:30:18] <stpeter> oh
[17:30:22] <stpeter> no, just to send the summary
[17:30:47] <stpeter> then we can update the document, or I can send proposed changes to the members@ list
[17:31:14] <Nÿco> ok
[17:31:42] <stpeter> I'll also put that on my calendar for this Friday
[17:31:51] <Nÿco> ok, thx
[17:32:12] <Nÿco> gee-soc?
[17:32:49] <stpeter> I think we can drop GSoC off the agenda, although I haven't followed up with payment -- that should be happening automatically because they have our data on file
[17:33:34] <stpeter> Friday will be my XSF day :)
[17:33:58] <Nÿco> - Elections

[17:34:10] <stpeter> yes, fun stuff
[17:34:13] <Nÿco> what do we need to talk about here?
[17:34:29] <stpeter> lots of good candidates this year -- it was hard to figure out my voting preferences!
[17:34:32] <Nÿco> maybe a few bot issues?
[17:34:36] *** koski has joined the room
[17:35:00] <stpeter> Kev raised a possible issue in the Council meeting the other day, but I'd prefer not to discuss that unless we experience a problem in the voting :)
[17:35:16] <Kev> :)
[17:35:52] <stpeter> but after this round of voting I think we might need to fix the procedures yet again :(
[17:36:13] <Kev> On the plus side, this isn't a bylaws change needed to fix it :)
[17:36:29] <stpeter> http://xmpp.org:5290/muc_log/muc.xmpp.org/council/101018/#18:10:14 is you're curious
[17:38:30] <koski> stpeter: Merci
[17:39:59] <stpeter> Nÿco: what else is on the agenda? I'm running another meeting while I'm in this one and I haven't found the agenda email yet :/
[17:41:28] <Nÿco> - Mini Summits

[17:42:01] <stpeter> do we need to sanction these? have some meetups and enjoy! :)
[17:42:12] <stpeter> but perhaps people would like some kind of official blessing?
[17:42:51] <Nÿco> yes, this can be done without the XSF ascend
[17:43:04] <Nÿco> so, no more items in this agenda
[17:43:06] <stpeter> Florian: what do you think?
[17:43:09] <Kev> As long as they get announced on the sensible MLs, I think it's fine.
[17:43:15] <Nÿco> any more item you should to talk about?
[17:43:17] <Kev> For my non-Board opinion.
[17:43:24] *stpeter laughs at Kev's message on the XMPP WG list
[17:44:40] <Nÿco> ok then, last item: next meeting => should we let the next board decide?
[17:45:02] <stpeter> so it seems :)
[17:45:15] <Nÿco> http://typewith.me/YPtgqcetvL minutes, please review, fix, correct, amend, etc.
[17:45:46] <stpeter> I'll check the minutes a bit after my other meeting finishes
[17:46:06] <stpeter> and presumably Will and Jack might show up in 15 minutes, at which time we'll have this meeting all over again ;-)
[17:46:20] <Nÿco> ;-)
[17:46:25] <Nÿco> ok, I need to leave you now
[17:46:27] <Nÿco> sorry
[17:46:31] <stpeter> no problem!
[17:46:34] <stpeter> thanks
[17:46:39] <Nÿco> thank to you
[17:46:43] <Nÿco> bye
[17:46:43] <stpeter> sorry again about the confusion
[17:46:48] <Nÿco> np ;-)
[17:47:06] <stpeter> bye!
[17:47:18] *** Nÿco has left the room
[17:53:46] <Jehan> So that's a board meeting...
[17:53:53] <Jehan> Fast. :-D
[17:54:04] <stpeter> heehee
[17:55:49] <Jehan> So the XSF has actually only one sponsor right now?
[17:56:07] *** will.sheward has joined the room
[17:56:07] *** will.sheward shows as "online"
[17:56:13] *** jack has joined the room
[17:56:18] <stpeter> Jehan: well, it depends on how you count :)
[17:56:49] <jack> sorry. i was out doing errands and planning to be back at noon :)
[17:56:57] <Jehan> I don't know: up to 10, with my hand fingers, up to 20 with my foot fingers, after this I cannot count.
[17:56:59] <Jehan> :-D
[17:57:01] <jack> just in time to have made it to the meeting that was at the wrong time :)
[17:57:01] <will.sheward> and i was stuck in traffic
[17:57:13] <will.sheward> so we both fail :-(
[17:57:28] <stpeter> it was my fault
[17:57:39] <will.sheward> i'm happy to blame others :-)
[17:57:57] <Kev> I suspect it was a marketing problem.
[17:58:04] <will.sheward> shut up
[17:58:29] <will.sheward> oh, actually the calendar says the meetings starts in 3 mins
[17:58:40] <stpeter> minutes at http://typewith.me/YPtgqcetvL
[17:58:46] <stpeter> will.sheward: because I got it wrong
[17:59:01] <stpeter> so you guys can review the minutes and see if you have other issues
[17:59:16] <will.sheward> so it was just me missing then?
[18:01:03] <stpeter> and Jack
[18:03:01] *stpeter laughs
[18:03:07] <stpeter> I like Will's edits
[18:03:17] <will.sheward> i'm a stickler for accuracy
[18:03:38] <will.sheward> is there a chat log to read?
[18:04:00] <stpeter> I can paste the log from this room into the minutes
[18:04:02] <stpeter> please hold
[18:04:08] <Kev> Yes, this room is logged isn't it?
[18:04:44] <stpeter> oh
[18:04:45] <stpeter> sure
[18:05:00] <stpeter> http://xmpp.org:5290/muc_log/muc.xmpp.org/xsf/101020/
[18:05:07] <will.sheward> thanks peter
[18:05:09] <Kev> That's the puppy.
[18:05:26] <stpeter> now you have two options for your reading pleasure
[18:07:36] <will.sheward> ok read the minutes (that was a quick meeting!).
[18:07:52] <stpeter> it just seemed quick :P
[18:08:19] <will.sheward> I'm of to get dinner. I may see you at the next meeting, or I may not :-)
[18:08:42] <stpeter> :P
[18:08:54] <stpeter> will.sheward: anything we need to know about the website?
[18:09:03] <will.sheward> yes, it's awesome.
[18:09:12] <stpeter> ideal!
[18:09:40] <will.sheward> i'm still writing up notes, i'll make sure the correct people have them. but things are settling down. just need to sort redirects.
[18:10:46] *** will.sheward has left the room
[18:11:01] <Jehan> Yeah I really like the new website as well. Just to say.
[18:11:15] <stpeter> thanks
[18:11:21] <stpeter> Will gets the credit
[18:11:27] <Jehan> credit?
[18:11:34] <Jehan> Ah.
[18:11:56] <stpeter> he did the work, so we praise him above all others :)
[18:12:01] <Jehan> Will, as Will Sheward, not "will" as future auxiliary. :-D
[18:12:24] <stpeter> correct
[18:12:30] <stpeter> it's quite confusing to write the minutes :)
[18:12:39] <Jehan> Why is that?
[18:12:40] <stpeter> "Will will do X"
[18:13:03] <stpeter> so I write them as "Will to do X, Jack to do Y"
[18:13:13] <stpeter> jack: any feedback on the minutes or log?
[18:14:02] <jack> looked good to me
[18:14:22] <Jehan> uhuh
[18:14:55] <Jehan> jack: why is your writing displayed in big characters?
[18:14:58] <stpeter> most excellent
[18:15:11] <Jehan> At least here (with Pidgin today).
[18:15:38] <stpeter> XHTML-IM, I suppose
[18:15:50] <jack> adium hates me i think
[18:16:14] *stpeter laughs
[18:16:37] <Jehan> I guess. But I was wondering if he made it on purpose. Something like he has such an ego that he modified his default conf, thinking "everyone must see my text soooo much bigger!!!". :-D
[18:16:38] <Kev> We can configure the room to strip that if you like.
[18:16:47] <Kev> Ah, no we can't, this is xmpp.org.
[18:16:56] <stpeter> right
[18:17:07] <Jehan> What is the difference with jabber.org?
[18:17:14] <Kev> Different software.
[18:17:16] <Jehan> The server?
[18:17:24] <Jehan> Ok. Wht is on xmpp.org?
[18:17:37] <Kev> Prosody.
[18:17:43] <Jehan> Ok.
[18:17:48] <stpeter> and they are run on different machines, too
[18:18:01] <Jehan> Is that also an opened server?
[18:18:11] <Jehan> I mean, people can make JID with xmpp.org?
[18:18:14] <Kev> There are no user accounts, if that's what you're asking.
[18:18:15] <Kev> No.
[18:18:19] <Jehan> Ok.
[18:19:12] <stpeter> I suppose we could create accounts @ xmpp.org for XSF members
[18:19:39] <Jehan> Yeah, it would be classy. :-D
[18:19:46] <Kev> I don't think there's much value in this.
[18:20:04] <Kev> The iteam have enough to do without managing an IM server as well :)
[18:20:17] <Jehan> I don't think either indeed, except for the ego.
[18:20:35] <stpeter> aw, it's all about Facebook now anyway
[18:20:40] <stpeter> IM is so 1990s
[18:21:01] <Jehan> I still don't understand what people do on Facebook anyway.
[18:21:43] <Jehan> And as you need an account to see, I will probably never understand. That's stupid, they sell a service without showing what we can do with it before getting it!
[18:22:17] <stpeter> Jehan: trust me, it will change your life!
[18:22:23] <Jehan> uhuh
[18:22:38] <stpeter> and the whole world will know exactly how your life has changed, too ;-)
[18:22:47] <Jehan> I guess so.
[18:23:39] <Jehan> Yeah anyway Facebook already has many informations on me. People showed me photos and even videos of me on Facebook.
[18:23:50] <stpeter> crazy
[18:24:01] <Jehan> That's stupid, then there are stuffs about me on Facebook and I cannot even see them!
[18:24:20] <Jehan> I cannot even search for me with a search engine.
[18:25:58] <stpeter> "it's none of your business what we're saying about you!"
[18:26:19] <stpeter> Facebook makes me feel like I'm back in high school, and I don't want to go back :)
[18:26:22] <stpeter> anyway
[18:26:34] <stpeter> I need to complete a bunch of actions items from the other meeting I was in
[18:26:37] <stpeter> but first, some lunch
[18:27:44] <Kev> High school was a lot of music for me, I miss that :)
[18:28:01] <Jehan> Eh!
[18:28:44] <stpeter> plus my wrists hurt from being in two meetings at once
[18:28:45] <stpeter> bbiab
[18:29:38] <Jehan> Your meetings are only by chat?
[18:37:17] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "wandered off..."
[18:39:07] <stpeter> these meetings were
[18:39:12] <stpeter> I also have phone meetings sometimes
[18:39:40] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[18:40:23] <Tobias> i wonder how well that scales
[18:40:37] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "lunch!"
[18:40:53] <stpeter> not very well if you're really involved in the meetings :)
[18:41:49] <stpeter> anyway, bbiab, must eat and I need to cook up lunch in order to have something to eat
[18:44:44] <Jehan> lol
[18:45:48] *** jack has left the room
[18:46:24] <Jehan> For scaling phone meeting, I remember someone telling me about some system (I don't remember if it was only software or also hardware) where people needed to be given speak rights before being able to be heard.
[18:47:49] <Jehan> Like they request to be able to speak, then the meeting head would see it (lights or whatever) and would enable the audio for this guy. The person who spoke about it said he had done a lot of audio meeting with really many many people.
[18:48:32] <Jehan> Of course, then it is not fully "phone" meeting then I guess, more VOIP (unless it was using hardware linked to phones, I don't remember).
[18:49:09] <Kev> This approach works well for non-phone meetings, too.
[18:51:25] <Jehan> Yes. But it is still easier to "filter" people's writing on a chat (even though if you have a hundred guys all writing together, I agree it will be hard to follow and annoying meeting).
[18:51:39] <Jehan> Unless you mean physical meetings.
[18:51:48] <Kev> I meant the other type of meeting, the type where you meet.
[18:52:53] <Jehan> uhuh ok.
[19:03:45] <stpeter> well yeah, I even have physical meetings sometimes :)
[19:05:26] <Jehan> stpeter, the online man.
[19:06:42] <Jehan> By the way, my idea of running a donation campaign was so bad that nobody even answered? :-/
[19:07:37] <stpeter> I, for one, haven't seen that idea because I'm behind on email
[19:08:04] <Jehan> Ok.
[19:08:42] <Kev> If it was a long mail, I probably skipped it to save time.
[19:08:50] <Jehan> Basically I was thinking that we should not rely only on corporate donation and that we could try and run a donation campaign.
[19:09:06] <Jehan> Yeah sorry it was long I think. I am a little bad to make short emails.
[19:09:58] <Jehan> I saw that some XSF people assumed that not that many people out there would give. But I think otherwise. And we don't lose anything by trying anyway.
[19:10:14] <Kev> Well, apart from some credibility if it looks like we're begging ;)
[19:10:22] <Kev> Why do all my smiles turn out as winks?
[19:10:27] <Kev> - ;) + :)
[19:10:50] <Jehan> Hum.. When Wikipedia makes a donation campaign, nobody says they are begging.
[19:11:16] <Kev> Wikipedia is providing a service to the public that is a little different from an SDO.
[19:11:31] <Kev> I don't have a strong opinion on this, see what Board think.
[19:13:46] <Jehan> And that's also linked not only to money for money but as well to a logic of XSF management. Relying only on Corporate donations is in the end more dangerous. Not only because we might say that the bigger donors might end up gaining too much control; but also because if it works well, it means we would be afraid to lose these donors. A little like for Mozilla who would be annoyed I guess if they lost donations from Google (even though they claim otherwise).
[19:15:48] <Jehan> Many non-profit groups (some charity group among other things) even makes a clear rule that they cannot have more corporate donation than private donation to remain fully independant. I don't say we should have such rule, but that we should still try the private donation possibilities as well.
[19:17:17] <Jehan> It is not as direct a service to common people as Wikipedia, but it is still some service. And in the end, this is for all users of the Internet.
[19:19:46] <Jehan> SDO also need to get money to function. XSF decided to makes life easier for its member, like not making crazy prices for meetings (like IETF), which is very good in my own opinion. But it would still be nice for the XSF to have some money...
[19:20:33] <Jehan> For infrastructure, meetings, and so on.
[19:21:40] <Jehan> Anyway that's just an idea... Maybe the next board (the next board meeting is with the new board now, isn't it?) will be able to discuss this?
[19:26:29] <Jehan> Ok. I am going to bed right now.
[19:26:52] <Jehan> Good afternoon (I think) everyone!
[19:29:12] *** koski has left the room
[19:30:39] *** stpeter shows as "xa" and his status message is "getting some vitamin D"
[19:31:59] *** Jehan has left the room
[19:45:17] *** Kev shows as "away"
[19:47:54] *** Kev shows as "online"
[20:01:19] *** Florian shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto Status (idle)"
[20:02:49] *** Florian shows as "online"
[20:24:10] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[21:03:00] *** Kooda shows as "xa"
[21:05:21] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "wandered off..."
[21:15:53] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[21:26:16] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "wandered off..."
[21:32:03] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[21:37:17] *** Kev shows as "away"
[21:40:56] *** Kev shows as "online"
[22:03:38] *** Tobias has left the room
[22:03:56] *** Tobias has joined the room
[22:13:00] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:37:57] *** Tobias has left the room
[23:25:08] *** bear has left the room