XSF logo XSF Discussion - 2010-12-08


  1. Tobias has joined
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  15. Nÿco Council meeting in 0:30+? Board meeting in 1:30+
  16. Kev Correct for the former, don't know about the latter :)
  17. Nÿco ;-)
  18. Neustradamus has joined
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  21. bear starts editing the http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Board wiki page to reflect current reality
  22. Florian has joined
  23. bear running to the corner store - just realized I am without beverage of choice
  24. bear why am I double posting?
  25. Kev You're not.
  26. bear psi is showing each twice, mine and yours
  27. bear has left
  28. Kev I suspect that you've joined the MUC from two resources, and your server is routing the ghost one instead of rejecting it (which it should, but (almost?) no-one does yet, as it's a relatively recent bis-ism)
  29. bear tries this again
  30. bear has left
  31. MattJ Prosody rejected it even before the spec was fixed :)
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  33. bear has joined
  34. bear meeting notes and agenda: http://typewith.me/geydlB7gFR
  35. bear Current working agenda: Agenda: - Roadmap - Summit 10 - Summit 10/FOSDEM - dividing responsibilities - Dinner - Limit to Members / Sponsors? - Location - Interop
  36. bear meeting to start in 10 minutes, will shoot for 35-40 minute timeframe, 2 rounds of me with claws and knives if we get to 50 minutes
  37. Florian has left
  38. Will has joined
  39. bear anyone have "eyes" on Jack? can they poke him
  40. Will poked
  41. bear oh - hehehe - I do also
  42. Will he'll start to feel persecuted
  43. bear or loved if he is into that kind of thing :/
  44. jack has joined
  45. bear florian was here ...
  46. Florian has joined
  47. jack hi all
  48. bear hi jack
  49. Florian hi
  50. Nÿco hi all
  51. bear coolness - looks like we have 100%
  52. Florian on the dot :)
  53. bear bangs the gavel
  54. stpeter wanders back in
  55. bear anyone have any issues with the agenda as suggested by Nÿco
  56. stpeter looks good to me
  57. bear if so, edit the doc please
  58. bear ok, Item 1 - Roadmap
  59. bear I've started to edit the wiki page outlining this - not sure exactly (given my n00bness) what this involves
  60. bear what was done last year?
  61. Will nothing, which was kind of the point :-)
  62. Will of doing something this year
  63. bear ok then :) - i'll draft an email asking for suggestions and also giving some thoughts and report back next meeting - sound ok?
  64. Nÿco ok
  65. stpeter I think we had a good discussion among the members
  66. dwd has left
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  68. stpeter we just need to capture the conclusions somewhere
  69. Nÿco yes, thread needs summary
  70. stpeter I'd suggest a wordpress page
  71. bear yea, I was going to sift thru that for the big ideas
  72. stpeter rather than wiki
  73. stpeter I did post a summary
  74. Nÿco ah
  75. Nÿco missed it
  76. Nÿco can you remind where?
  77. bear oh coolness, that will make the task much easier
  78. stpeter http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2010-October/006040.html
  79. stpeter there was some discussion after that
  80. Nÿco thx
  81. Will the wiki is for dicussions, wordpress/xmpp.org for announcements - so wordpress page yes
  82. stpeter but not much
  83. stpeter right, this is a more permanent page
  84. Nÿco ah yes, I remember now that I've read it
  85. bear *editor note: can someone update the typewith.me doc*
  86. stpeter it might not seem like it, but I'll have more time before long to help out further
  87. Nÿco you can
  88. stpeter bear: will do
  89. bear i'm hoping to be able to offload some of this from you if you don't mind :)
  90. stpeter from or to? :)
  91. bear :)
  92. Will on you :-)
  93. bear any other issues to worry about with the roadmap?
  94. stpeter bear: I think not
  95. bear moving on to item 2 (speak up if not)
  96. stpeter bear: the Council discussed this last week and concluded that focusing on MUC and file transfer for this term would be reasonable
  97. stpeter bear: I'll find the log for you
  98. bear k
  99. jack seems good. i get a lot of questions about file transfer
  100. bear link in the notes is fine
  101. stpeter http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/members/2010-October/006040.html
  102. stpeter ok
  103. stpeter Summit?
  104. bear yep
  105. Florian yes :)
  106. Will announcements are out to members, will post to other places soon
  107. bear Will posted a great outline of the summit to the members list and has started a wiki page: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2011
  108. Florian I've prepped a page on xmpp.org
  109. stpeter oh cool, in typewithme you can choose your color :)
  110. stpeter excellent
  111. Florian http://xmpp.org/participate/the-xmpp-summit/xmpp-summit-10/
  112. Will I wanted to talk about division of responsibilities
  113. Florian is the FOSDEM booth / room confirmed?
  114. stpeter Florian: the room is, not sure about the booth, let's check
  115. Florian ok
  116. bear I noticed we have already started the annual t-shirt discussion
  117. stpeter stands have not yet been announced
  118. Will but we did put in a request, yes?
  119. dwd bear, Traditions are important.
  120. bear to me that's always the sign when planning is started for real
  121. admin@im.flosoft.biz has joined
  122. stpeter http://fosdem.org/2011/ looks bad -- we need to put out a call for talks
  123. Will we have
  124. stpeter ah, so we need to tell them about the link :)
  125. Will yes
  126. Florian I wanted to start collecting participants on the XMPP.org page
  127. Florian through comments
  128. stpeter Florian: good idea
  129. stpeter Will: I can let the FOSDEM organizers know
  130. Florian I got someone at Nokia to forward a sponsor request
  131. Will stpeter: thats why i wanted ot talk about responsibilities....
  132. admin@im.flosoft.biz Ping
  133. stpeter :)
  134. stpeter pong
  135. stpeter Will: you mean we need to get organized?
  136. Florian ok .. iPad works :)
  137. Will we need to make sure that not everything is your responsibility this year. spread the load a bit
  138. stpeter :P
  139. stpeter yeah, sure
  140. stpeter although others have done a lot in the past, e.g. Alex and Mickaël
  141. bear what areas of need are there?
  142. Will so for instance, if we get a booth, 'm happy to be the responsible adult for that :-)
  143. stpeter Will: much needed
  144. dwd "adult"?
  145. Will shut up dwd, you're supposed to working
  146. Florian I guess I'm not allowed to do anything :(
  147. dwd Will, "from home" - doesn't count.
  148. bear dinner? who's organizing
  149. Will florian organises our social life
  150. Florian :D
  151. dwd has joined
  152. Florian I've been wondering ... Hotel ... Brussels vs. Diegem?
  153. stpeter heehee
  154. stpeter are there hotels in the boondocks of Diegem?
  155. bear gets out his ruler in case any knuckles need whacking
  156. dwd stpeter, Bound to be some near the airport.
  157. Florian any Brussels Airport Hotel, yes
  158. stpeter Remko said the train to Diegem is a 15-minute ride from the center
  159. Florian yeah
  160. stpeter and leaves every 30 minutes
  161. dwd Florian, Do they run late?
  162. stpeter or something like that
  163. stpeter late
  164. stpeter ?
  165. Florian haha ... normally not
  166. stpeter we'll be working late?
  167. Will are we going for a hotel in brussels and ride out to diegem or the other way around?
  168. Florian they're better than SouthWest Trains
  169. stpeter yes
  170. Florian Will: right ...
  171. Florian Brussels at night has pubs
  172. Florian and nice places
  173. stpeter hotel in/near the center, train to the meetings
  174. dwd Florian, So's a horse and cart.
  175. jack better to be near the beer i think
  176. Florian Diegem is quite industrial
  177. stpeter right
  178. Florian it's basically Airport land
  179. Tobias has joined
  180. Florian the only thing there are business parks
  181. Florian and a small town center
  182. stpeter yep
  183. Florian Brussels is nicer
  184. stpeter agreed
  185. Florian and seeing as we have FOSDEM
  186. Will trsut cisco to put an office somewhere boring ;-)
  187. stpeter you betcha
  188. Florian the thing on our Meetings
  189. Florian they end at a certain tie
  190. stpeter but at least we'll have Internet access this time
  191. Florian *time
  192. Florian FOSDEM is more flexible
  193. Florian so I think it's nicer to be in Brussels
  194. Florian yet ... I'll be the person living outside Brussels :p
  195. stpeter yes we all agree :)
  196. Will hotel organiser is ?
  197. stpeter so we need to find a hotel that might give us a discount?
  198. Florian I can be
  199. Florian yes ... Discount Hotel
  200. Nÿco ans Summit room?
  201. Florian what about the one last year?
  202. Florian good or bad?
  203. Nÿco with hardcore wifi
  204. Nÿco wifi sucked
  205. stpeter Nÿco: I've arranged to use a meeting room at the Cisco office in Diegem, outside Brussels (near the airport)
  206. Nÿco ok
  207. stpeter boring location, but better connectivity
  208. Nÿco fine
  209. stpeter there is also a catering service of some kind, I need to find out more about that for lunch and coffee
  210. Florian :)
  211. stpeter so I can handle that stuff via Cisco
  212. bear sounds like we have hotel/dinner consensus of some kind - who is going to follow up?
  213. Florian ah
  214. Florian Dinner up next?
  215. stpeter yes, dinner
  216. Florian so ...
  217. bear who is point person for hotel?
  218. Florian as posted to board@
  219. Nÿco - devroom: ?? - hackfest: ??
  220. stpeter Florian is hotel point person
  221. Florian bear: I can manage hotel
  222. bear k, sorry - just saw typewith.me update
  223. stpeter Nÿco: right we need to discuss those, too
  224. Will as Nyco pointed out, still need devroom and hackfest organisers
  225. Tobias has left
  226. Florian Devroom is Saturday?
  227. stpeter yes
  228. Will yes
  229. Florian no volunteers?
  230. Will who is going to be there? stpeter? bear?
  231. bear I am collecting speaker list but won't be able to coordinate space/location
  232. Florian I can:)
  233. stpeter regarding the devroom, we need someone to arrange the schedule of talks etc.
  234. bear I can handle the talk schedule
  235. dwd Kev?
  236. Florian I'm a student ... so I've got loads of free time :)
  237. stpeter haha
  238. Will bear = devroom
  239. Florian +1
  240. bear with onsite help via florian ;)
  241. Florian sure :)
  242. stpeter I know some of the FOSDEM guys now so I can work with them onsite as needed
  243. Will ok
  244. Florian great
  245. Kev Sorry, was saying Hi to Cath.
  246. stpeter yes, Florian and I can work with the FOSDEM folks onsite
  247. Kev What did you volunteer me for, Dave?
  248. stpeter and Ralph, too, slackr that he is :)
  249. Will Kev, it's ok you escaped
  250. Florian haha
  251. Kev Righty.
  252. bear kev can do hackfest then
  253. Will :-)
  254. Florian :)
  255. stpeter what's needed for the hackfest?
  256. Kev Righty, am I going to FOSDEM then? )
  257. Kev :)
  258. Nÿco do we have a room for this?
  259. Florian I'm trying to get some phones from Noknok
  260. Will come up with interesting topics, herd cats
  261. bear warm body for room?
  262. Florian I guess start / announce on Friday .. prize on Monday
  263. stpeter hackfest = interop or something more?
  264. stpeter oh, that hackfest
  265. stpeter the code contest?
  266. Florian ohh
  267. Florian /that/ hackfest
  268. Florian Friday @ Cisco?
  269. stpeter hackfest = Friday
  270. jack i can bring more books for prizes
  271. stpeter yeah, I need to do that too
  272. Florian I'd say Interop and coding?
  273. stpeter last year it was somewhat chaotic, no?
  274. Florian with at the end a lightning round of "progress"?
  275. stpeter perhaps our Interop Week folks can help organize some interop stuff on Friday
  276. stpeter lightning talks are fun
  277. stpeter yeah
  278. stpeter that breaks it up a bit, too
  279. Florian I'll be there on Friday this year too :)
  280. stpeter me too
  281. stpeter I think :)
  282. Florian :)
  283. Florian so yeah, Hackfest ... Interop & Jingle Mingle?
  284. bear sounds like something for list discussion?
  285. Will yes
  286. Florian yup
  287. stpeter ok
  288. stpeter take it to the list!
  289. Kev Anyway, I'm happy to run Friday, assuming I'm going (and I'm assuming I'm going, but haven't discussed with anyone yet).
  290. bear kev - can you start that list discussion?
  291. Kev Can do. What would we like to do with the day?
  292. stpeter that's the question :)
  293. bear it needs to be engaging, so we may need to find out what the topics of interest are first
  294. bear but it sounds like summary lightning talks are an "in"
  295. stpeter I think I have a smaller room arranged for Friday, let me see how many it seats
  296. Florian :)
  297. stpeter I think it's 25
  298. stpeter and 40 on Monday
  299. stpeter or something like that
  300. stpeter (round numbers)
  301. Florian ok...
  302. bear ok to move on to next item?
  303. Florian +1
  304. stpeter usually Friday is smaller
  305. stpeter yep
  306. stpeter almost up to 30 minutes here
  307. Florian so ... I added Limiting Dinner to Members
  308. Nÿco heckfest/interop around file transfer also
  309. Florian and Sponsors
  310. Will and me
  311. bear dinner: question about limiting to members
  312. Florian the problem:
  313. Florian it's close to impossible to find a restaurant that will seat 50 geeks :)
  314. stpeter Nÿco: yes
  315. stpeter heh
  316. stpeter yeah
  317. Florian in Brussels it's impossible
  318. Will how aobut we dont tell them we're geeks?
  319. Florian haha :)
  320. Kev I don't see much reason to be seating people with no prior or subsequent interaction with the community.
  321. dwd I raised this with Florian, and I'm fine with non-members turning up, but I'm not so happy that the XSF is subsidizing them.
  322. Florian and there's a point to make ... Why should I be an XSF member?
  323. Will Kev - money
  324. Florian right
  325. Kev Will: That would be an interaction.
  326. Kev It happened this year that people turned up for FOSDEM, ate the food, and that was about all that I'd seen of them before or since.
  327. Florian so I'd say.. limit it to XSF Member+1 and Sponsors
  328. dwd Will, Oh, for sure - if someone's paying sufficient that the net result is that they're still subsidizing XSF members, great.
  329. bear members and sponsor reps == great idea IMO
  330. Kev I'm happy for sponsors to have seats, I'm happy for members to have seats.
  331. Kev I don't see why non-community-members should get seats outside those groups, and certainly not why the XSF (through sponsors) should pay for them.
  332. Will we've already told sponsors they can have seats: http://xmpp.org/sponsor/sponsor-the-xsf/
  333. Florian indeed
  334. dwd Will, Right, that's fine.
  335. Florian I'd say ... Sponsors + Dinner Sponsors
  336. bear sounds like we are all agreeing vigorously about the same small cluster of ideas - should we stamp it as board approved?
  337. Kev Florian: And members? :)
  338. Will yup
  339. Florian oh yeah ... those too
  340. Florian :p
  341. Florian bear: yes!
  342. stpeter so members can bring a guest, or non-members pay their own way?
  343. dwd Florian, you suggested +1 - I'm not convinced that's needed. Yes, this is a social thing, but still.
  344. Florian hmm
  345. Florian what about "Dinner Sponsors"
  346. Florian like Vodafone for example
  347. Florian they're not a Sponsor
  348. stpeter make them sponsors?
  349. Florian but a "Dinner Sponsor"
  350. Kev stpeter: Apart from sponsors, I think non-members should have to at least pay their way, if they're elligible at all.
  351. Florian well ... Dinner sponsors are smaller contributions
  352. Florian like 100€
  353. Florian etc.
  354. stpeter ah
  355. stpeter right
  356. bear that sounds like a great way to get a foot in the door to an organization for later larger sponsorship
  357. Will dwd: some people turn up with partners, excluding them could lead to problems
  358. dwd I'm fine with anyone showing up if they're paying (at least) their way.
  359. Florian right
  360. Florian so ... to sum up ...
  361. Florian Members +1 for the price of the dinner (50€) Sponsors: As per Sponsor chart Dinner Sponsors
  362. Florian those can get access...
  363. Florian i.e. Nokia ... it's easier for them to sponsor a single dinner, than getting them to become an XSF sponsor
  364. Florian don't ask me why ... it just is :)
  365. stpeter yep
  366. Florian so I want to keep the "dinner sponsor" thing going
  367. Florian as we had loads of people just pitching in 100@
  368. bear one is easier to hide in the accounting books :)
  369. Florian
  370. Florian and the 100€ resulted each year in free food :)
  371. bear sounds like we have consensus then on the dinner agenda item - true?
  372. Kev From the balcony, yes.
  373. stpeter now the challenge is to find a pace to eat :)
  374. Florian ah right
  375. stpeter +l
  376. Florian Will will need to pay :D
  377. dwd Florian, Ha!
  378. Florian I guess that means Isode "Will" need to sponsor :D
  379. bear looks around for something to throw at Florian
  380. Will has left
  381. Florian haha
  382. Will has joined
  383. bear k, next up - Interop
  384. Florian I guess it's progressing ...
  385. Florian I'd like to see this become an ongoing effort
  386. bear I am liking the idea of doing this on a very regular basis
  387. Florian i.e. keep the test servers up for longer
  388. Florian because we spent a lot of time just setting them up, getting certs etc.
  389. stpeter how "very"?
  390. stpeter quarterly? monthly?
  391. bear well, maybe not up all the time, but if we can get the configs documented ...
  392. Will very regular could mean once every 10 years, hope you mean frequent
  393. stpeter Florian: right, it would be good to build on all that work
  394. Kev I don't think it's a good idea to have the servers stay up.
  395. Florian every 2 months?
  396. bear biologically regular, not astronically regular ;)
  397. Florian for a week?
  398. bear wow - what word was that I just typed
  399. Kev I do think it's good to keep the configs (especially the CA) around.
  400. stpeter Kev: yes
  401. dwd Kev, Running up a CA, even, is pretty easy.
  402. bear I think every 3 months with CA and DNS always up
  403. Kev One week every 2 months is 13% of the participants time, if it takes them most of their time to do it.
  404. Florian bear: +1
  405. Florian quarterly
  406. bear it doesn't have to be full time for someone all week
  407. Florian that way, there's also progress in between
  408. Kev bear: I've spent quite a lot of this week on it.
  409. Will its better to aim low and over-perform than the other way around.
  410. bear yea, but that's upfront setup - will that be required in 3 months?
  411. Kev I don't see why it wouldn't.
  412. dwd I have to say we're looking at one now, some interop activity at the summits - that's a lot of time on this.
  413. bear ok, then let's use that as the baseline
  414. Kev Another 6 months before another one would be good, I think.
  415. admin@im.flosoft.biz Ok...
  416. bear 6 months sounds ok to me
  417. stpeter WFM
  418. Will 6 yes
  419. bear especially since I have no dog in this hunt
  420. dwd I'm fine with aiming for 6 months for the next online one. If we find a need to do one sooner, then that's also okay.
  421. Kev Right.
  422. Kev Doing them too often just devalues them.
  423. admin@im.flosoft.biz Ok... I mean we have the summits too
  424. Kev If they become a burden for participants, there won't be any, and that's bad.
  425. admin@im.flosoft.biz With interop action
  426. stpeter agreed
  427. bear doing server interop at the summit at oscon was *very* time consuming - especially for a one day event
  428. Florian has left
  429. bear so I could see summit interop being limited to clients and/or libs
  430. admin@im.flosoft.biz Hmm... Ok
  431. Kev bear: If the summit has sensible 'net access, it's not impossible to re-use the infrastructure.
  432. bear kev - true, that was what we spent a lot of time on - the net access was not sensible :(
  433. admin@im.flosoft.biz That's why I want to keep it up
  434. bear ok - we are at 45 minutes
  435. dwd Kev, But we can also spin up a new CA for that easily. Same with DNS, it's not hard. Just that *any* interop setup like this takes time.
  436. stpeter let's continue the interop discussion after this week finishes
  437. stpeter and see how people feel then
  438. admin@im.flosoft.biz Right
  439. bear +1 to tabling to after meeting and to the lists
  440. bear ok, any other agenda items to consider?
  441. stpeter then we'll have a better idea of costs and benefits
  442. admin@im.flosoft.biz Not from my end
  443. Will none here
  444. stpeter bear: I still owe you that old sponsor list, will do before Christmas
  445. bear the next board meeting would be the 22nd of December - is that going to be too close to the holidays for anyone?
  446. bear stpeter: thanks
  447. admin@im.flosoft.biz Nope
  448. stpeter 22nd is fine with me
  449. Will i'm ok for 22nd
  450. jack should be alright here
  451. bear Nÿco?
  452. bear ok, 22nd it is
  453. bear thanks one and all for another great meeting
  454. bear bangs the gavel
  455. Will bye all
  456. stpeter thanks, everyone
  457. Nÿco thx
  458. admin@im.flosoft.biz I guess that's a maybe...
  459. bear goes to post minutes
  460. admin@im.flosoft.biz Fucking freezing my hands off here on this iCrap
  461. stpeter updates the calendar
  462. bear stpeter - use the non-ietf muc link this time ;)
  463. stpeter haha
  464. stpeter hadn't noticed that
  465. admin@im.flosoft.biz Bye guys
  466. Will has left
  467. Nÿco has left
  468. stpeter calendar updated in git, let's see if Tobias's auto-updating works :)
  469. bear minutes emailed
  470. bear updates board wiki page
  471. stpeter thanks, bear
  472. luca tagliaferri has left
  473. stpeter wonders why his calendar isn't popping up reminders for XSF events
  474. bear hmm, where do I edit this page: http://xmpp.org/xsf/board/
  475. stpeter http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/the-xsf-board-of-directors/ is the new link
  476. stpeter we need to set up a whole bunch of redirects
  477. bear I got to that page from the main page
  478. stpeter so we need to fix some hrefs, too :)
  479. bear hehehe
  480. stpeter I need to spend some quality time with the website
  481. bear the wiki main page I meant - sorry
  482. bear i can fix that tho...
  483. stpeter ah
  484. stpeter ok
  485. petermount has left
  486. bear k, back to my regularly scheduled day off...
  487. stpeter heh
  488. stpeter thanks, bear
  489. stpeter I appreciate it
  490. bear thanks to you also :)
  491. stpeter :)
  492. bear oh hey - been meaning to ask, sorry for the ambush: did GSoC funds arrive or is there anything we need to follow up with them?
  493. stpeter I haven't seen the funds yet, but I'm not on the discussion list -- shall I ping LH?
  494. Florian has joined
  495. bear I don't think it's been talked about at all - I can ping her with my "Admin" hat on
  496. stpeter ok
  497. bear I was just reminded because I got my tshirt in the mail
  498. stpeter I don't remember the chronology of payment from years past
  499. bear I can use "this being my first time, so forgive me my n00bness" wording then
  500. stpeter :)
  501. stpeter thanks
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