Wednesday, December 15, 2010
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[19:47:22] <stpeter> T-15 minutes?
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[19:48:49] <koski> stpeter: if I have understood correctly, yes.
[19:49:06] <stpeter> same here :)
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[20:02:44] <stpeter> ok
[20:02:57] <Kev_> And it is time, I think.
[20:03:00] <stpeter> it's time to meet, but Alex is in charge
[20:03:07] <stpeter> so I'll defer to Alex
[20:03:18] <Alex> ;-)
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[20:03:27] <Alex> I need 2 more minutes
[20:03:42] <stpeter> I was wondering this morning whether it makes sense to allow applications at any time, but the membership will vote only 4 times a year
[20:04:46] <Kev_> I think it's largely irrelevant, but I'm open to arguments.
[20:05:31] <Alex> ok, I'm ready
[20:05:37] *Alex bangs the gavel
[20:05:39] <stpeter> the only argument I have is that sometimes I convince someone that they really want to apply, but then I have to tell them to wait ~3 months before applying
[20:05:59] <stpeter> anyway I'll post to the members list about it :)
[20:06:26] <Alex> i'bb put it on the agenda, then we can discuss it in other business
[20:06:34] <stpeter> ok
[20:06:36] <Alex> ok, here is our Agenda for today:
http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2010-12-15/
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[20:06:56] <Alex> 1) Call for Quorum
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[20:07:12] <Alex> as you can see 41 members voted via memberbot, so we have a quorum
[20:07:37] <Alex> 2) Items Subject to a Vote
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[20:07:59] <Alex> new and returning members. You can see the applications here: http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Membership_Applications_November_2010
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[20:08:31] <Alex> 3) Opportunity for XSF Members to Vote in the Meeting
[20:08:56] <Alex> anybody here who has not voted yet?
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[20:09:33] <koski> (seems quite silent)
[20:09:54] <stpeter> not sure who "kooda" is, but others seem to have voted
[20:09:55] <Alex> ok, then I shout down the bot and count the votes
[20:10:36] *stpeter reads a few more paragraphs of draft-cheshire-dnsext-multicastdns while waiting :)
[20:10:59] <Florob> oh, it has voice control now? :o)
[20:11:17] *Alex has written an app now for counting, so should be faster now, butSSH is quite slow right now
[20:11:37] <stpeter> heh
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[20:14:48] <stpeter> hi Florian
[20:15:01] <stpeter> Alex is counting the votes, please stand by :)
[20:15:21] <Florian> hi
[20:15:23] <Florian> sorry I'm late :)
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[20:15:31] <Alex> done, updating the page now
[20:15:58] <stpeter> ok
[20:16:07] <Alex> 4) Announcement of Voting Results
[20:16:24] <Alex> when you reload the page at: http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2010-12-15/ you can see the results
[20:16:39] <Alex> all new and returning members were accepted
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[20:17:20] <Alex> 5) Any Other Business?
[20:17:27] <Florian> yes
[20:17:30] <stpeter> yeah, good applicant pool
[20:17:32] <Alex> so we can disuss Peters proposal now
[20:17:37] <Florian> ah?
[20:17:41] <bear> woo - can haz intarnetz
[20:17:42] <Florian> what was Peters one?
[20:17:49] <Alex> ya, lots of yes votes, strong applicants this time
[20:18:03] <Florian> indeed
[20:18:04] <Alex> [21:01:20] <stpeter> I was wondering this morning whether it makes sense to allow applications at any time, but the membership will vote only 4 times a year
[20:18:15] <stpeter> right
[20:18:21] <Florian> very nice idea
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[20:18:26] <Florian> I like it ...
[20:18:36] <stpeter> sometimes I convince someone to apply, but then I forgot to remind them when the application period opens :)
[20:18:56] <Alex> yes I agree, but how do we vote then?
[20:19:05] <stpeter> but I think that would require a bylaws change
[20:19:14] <Alex> via memberbot 2 weeks for each applicant or just +1 on the memberlist
[20:19:18] <koski> Alex: normal way, no?
[20:19:22] <stpeter> Alex: just collect all the people who've applied since the last vote and we vote on those
[20:19:28] <stpeter> then we clear the cache after the next vote
[20:19:44] <koski> Sounds good to me.
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[20:19:55] <stpeter> continuous applications, occasional votes
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[20:20:15] <Alex> sounds good to me as well
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[20:20:35] <stpeter> I think it's easier for applicants and easier for the Secretary (i.e., Alex)
[20:20:44] <stpeter> anyway, I'll propose it on the list
[20:20:51] <bear> +1
[20:20:54] <Alex> I we change this then we should also get rid of the "missed 3 votes" clause for members
[20:21:04] <stpeter> Alex: why?
[20:21:07] <Kev_> Why?
[20:21:08] <Alex> becasue this makes not much sense to me
[20:21:20] <Kev_> Members still vote 4 times a year.
[20:21:24] <stpeter> it's a good way of purging uninterested members :)
[20:21:29] <Kev_> Just that the applicants can edit the wiki whenever they want to.
[20:21:42] <Kev_> (I'm in the car btw, so my connection's sucky, sorry)
[20:21:42] <stpeter> the Apache guys once told me it was a good idea because they have membership cruft :)
[20:21:59] <Kev_> Yeah, kicking people who aren't active any more is sensible.
[20:22:03] <stpeter> and it would make it harder to have a quorum
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[20:22:12] <stpeter> in fact we might never have a quorum
[20:22:12] <Alex> many members miss 2 votes and then just vote 1 time to not get removed from the list
[20:22:23] <Kev_> We could kick members who don't contribute to one of the teams for a year :D
[20:22:27] <stpeter> heh
[20:22:40] <stpeter> then we'd need to define "contribute"
[20:22:50] <Kev_> Yes, it was tongue-in-cheek, with a serious undertone.
[20:22:55] <stpeter> I hear ya
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[20:23:06] <stpeter> so, any other "any other business" items?
[20:23:12] <Kev_> Not here.
[20:23:21] <Kev_> And, indeed, my connection's about to drop.
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[20:23:34] <Alex> not here as well, we can discuss this further on the list
[20:23:35] <stpeter> thanks to all the interop participants, esp. Kev-in-charge
[20:23:45] <stpeter> looking forward to the Summit
[20:23:45] <Kev_> Aww shucks.
[20:23:51] <bear> yes - big thanks for Interop goodness
[20:23:56] <stpeter> Happy Yule and all that :)
[20:23:59] <stpeter> the usual
[20:24:15] <Alex> 6) Formal Adjournment
[20:24:17] <Kev_> Yes, Merry Christmas to those that celebrate :)
[20:24:19] <Kev_> Second.
[20:24:22] <Alex> I motion that we adjourn
[20:24:28] <stpeter> seconded
[20:24:36] *Alex bangs the gavel
[20:24:43] <bear> \o/
[20:24:44] *stpeter prints XEP-0198 for offline editing
[20:24:50] <Kev_> Bye, thanks all.
[20:24:52] <stpeter> thanks, Alex, as always!
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[20:25:07] <Alex> Florian you can put me on the list for the summit, all days and dinner
[20:25:15] <Alex> not 100% sure yet, but 90%
[20:25:19] <stpeter> I hope Kev was a passenger, not driving :)
[20:25:41] <stpeter> Alex: great -- it wil be good to see you
[20:26:05] <Tobias> yay, iCal tells me now that a meeting started 23 minutes ago :P
[20:26:39] <stpeter> Tobias: hmm
[20:26:48] <Alex> i forgot to bother somebody to put it in the cal
[20:26:51] <stpeter> Tobias: how to we make sure that calendar items trigger alerts?
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[20:27:19] <bear> you can add an alert item to the vcal, but a lot of cal clients strip that when importing
[20:27:22] <Alex> or is there a way for me to add it meetings to the cal?
[20:27:25] <Florian> Alex: will do
[20:27:25] <Tobias> stpeter: i don't know, it works for some, the alert tag is in ics file
[20:27:50] <Tobias> i'd blame iCal :P
[20:28:18] <bear> if your calendar software only refreshes from XSF calendar once a day it would have missed the addition
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[20:28:48] <stpeter> bear: yeah, I had to force-refresh
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[20:28:58] *bear needs to get that into his weekly xsf todo list queue
[20:29:11] <bear> so we have multiple eyes watching things
[20:29:32] <stpeter> some of the events.xml files were missing <alarm/>
[20:29:59] <stpeter> at least Council was
[20:30:09] <stpeter> or something -- I fixed one in the last few days :)
[20:30:15] <bear> :)
[20:30:16] <stpeter> but yeah I might blame iCal :)
[20:30:39] <bear> yea, by default iCal strips reminders and stuff from incoming stream
[20:30:44] <stpeter> ah
[20:30:46] <stpeter> idiots
[20:31:05] <bear> yea, XML is hard, lets go shopping!
[20:31:13] <stpeter> maybe it's time for me to try that Mozilla calendaring app again :)
[20:31:29] <bear> haha - i'll report back when the new version is out
[20:31:38] <stpeter> heh ok
[20:31:50] <bear> since I can walk over and poke the devs now if something breaks
[20:32:03] <stpeter> aha, I see now there is a Thunderbird plugin
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[20:32:18] <stpeter> perhaps I'll give Lightning a try
[20:32:19] <bear> yea, Mozilla Messaging team has been very active
[20:33:05] *bear flees to get lunch before the other devs clean it out
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[20:33:40] <Alex> Lightning works great for me in combination with Google Calendar and Android
[20:34:52] <stpeter> hmm but I lose valuable real estate, I suppose I'll hide it :)
[20:35:13] <Tobias> hasn't it always been a tb plugin, but then got extracted into sunbird?
[20:35:23] <stpeter> not sure
[20:35:29] <stpeter> I only ever tried Sunbird
[20:36:03] <Alex> i used both and found no difference in functionality
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[20:37:24] <stpeter> now I just need to figure out how to subscribe to calendars
[20:37:40] <Tobias> heh
[20:37:56] <Tobias> btw: are there special standard URIs for ics ical feeds?
[20:38:05] <stpeter> I don't think so
[20:38:16] <stpeter> just a media type
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[20:38:34] <Tobias> yeah, but you can't add those to <a/> tags, can you? :)
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[20:40:50] <stpeter> seems to have worked
[20:41:05] <stpeter> no, you just link to the http URL, I suppose
[20:41:06] <stpeter> brb
[20:41:33] <Tobias> but that'll just download the file, the ideal experience would be that the browser forwards it to your calendaring software to subscribe to it
[20:41:40] <stpeter> true
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[20:42:35] <Tobias> webcal:// is non-standard, right?
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[20:43:40] <Tobias> would be cool if browsers could delegate content to apps via HTTP content-type
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[21:30:00] <koski> Good end of the day Sirs!
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[21:35:06] <stpeter> BTW, I updated http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/xsf-source-control/
[21:35:08] <stpeter> finally
[21:35:18] <stpeter> no redirects yet, though
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[21:39:29] <bear> wooo
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