XSF Discussion - 2011-12-07


  1. Dave Cridland

    Hmmm, I just realised that I never sent out a link to the agenda to the members list.

  2. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: thanks for sending the agenda link

  3. Dave Cridland

    Horribly late.

  4. Dave Cridland

    Had that ready to send for ages and finally dug down to it.

  5. stpeter

    I think the Board members who are not XSF members are not on the members@xmpp.org list

  6. stpeter

    or might not be

  7. stpeter

    that seems advisable

  8. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, I did send the contents to board@ on Monday.

  9. ralphm

    Good start :-D

  10. stpeter

    hi ralphm!

  11. ralphm

    Hello from SF, by the way.

  12. stpeter

    ralphm: how is your trip so far?

  13. Dave Cridland

    We seems to be lacking in board members.

  14. ralphm

    stpeter: Apart from filled sinuses and a bit of a jet lag, pretty good.

  15. stpeter

    Dave: I don't see Florian or Ashley online

  16. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Florian sent apologies last week.

  17. stpeter

    ah

  18. stpeter

    that's right

  19. stpeter

    he's at Le Web

  20. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, You may recall he pleaded the novel excuse of being invited to dinner by the French President.

  21. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: yeah, some excuse

  22. MattJ

    Dave Cridland, I thought you were joking about that :)

  23. ralphm_

    You'd think he has better things to do

  24. MattJ

    For the fact it sounded entirely too plausible to be true

  25. Dave Cridland

    MattJ, Well, it sounds more likely if you consider that Sarkozy doesn't actually know Florian.

  26. MattJ

    :)

  27. MattJ

    Thanks for the emails about board meetings though, the main reason I rarely attended them in the past is forgetfulness

  28. stpeter

    I've pinged and invited bear

  29. stpeter

    MattJ: you *can* subscribe to the calendar at http://xmpp.org/calendar/

  30. Dave Cridland

    OK, so I suspect we can't have a formal board meeting, but I'd like to still discuss at least the FOSDEM stuff, so we can try to help people nail down travel plans.

  31. Dave Cridland

    Also, we're running close to the deadline for a stand - that's the 9th, isn't it?

  32. ralphm

    Ugh, connections being dropped here. Switching to a screen(1) session.

  33. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: agreed on nailing things down, I continue to ping Board members in the background :)

  34. ralphm

    deadline is 14th

  35. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Nailing things down is not only fun, but satisfying.

  36. ralphm

    eh 13th

  37. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, OK, so before the next Board meeting anyway.

  38. Dave Cridland

    So - do we want to try for this "Real Time Lounge" idea?

  39. ralphm

    sure

  40. Dave Cridland

    I'm trying to get some military demos going, perhaps some low-bandwidth stuff.

  41. cchris434

    Hi Dave, I still owe you an answer on the demos...will let you know

  42. Dave Cridland

    I've also tapped Echobit (evolvehq.com) to see if they can show. GIves us an excuse to play games.

  43. ralphm

    It'd be a nice if someone would make a nice summary for the idea.

  44. Dave Cridland

    cchris434, That'd be great.

  45. cchris434

    yep, I will see, although no promises

  46. ralphm

    Do those demos involve FOSS?

  47. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, Yes, I should think so, for the client at the very least.

  48. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, Harder to arrange with Echobit, although they use an open-source server, and the XMPP library is also open-source.

  49. ralphm

    While not critical, as we are more about open standards, it is a big plus at this event.

  50. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, Yes, I agree. FOSDEM is FOSS, first and foremost, and we should ensure we're never too far from that.

  51. ralphm

    my point

  52. ralphm

    I'm sure that when we send out a CFP, we have more of these

  53. stpeter

    BTW Ashley is on the way

  54. ralphm

    we just need to be sure we have something already

  55. ralphm

    so we can put in the request

  56. Dave Cridland

    Right. So we can hammer out a draft proposal on the Wiki, I suppose?

  57. Dave Cridland

    bear, You about?

  58. bear

    odd - my client sure looked liked I was already attached

  59. stpeter

    heh

  60. Dave Cridland

    Gosh. We're quorate!

  61. bear

    we need to talk to the buddycloud folks for the lounge demo

  62. Dave Cridland

    bear, Yes, good point too.

  63. Ashley

    apologies for being late

  64. Dave Cridland

    Ashley, Did we mention the public whippings for latecomers?

  65. Ashley

    i have callouses, so go ahead… :D

  66. bear

    mozilla's email has been down for 3 days, so I haven't been able to even poke them about sharing the space - still working on it

  67. Dave Cridland

    bear, By "sharing the space", you mean what, exactly?

  68. stpeter

    bear: ouch

  69. bear

    well, I was hoping that mozilla would help either with demos or with money (both actually)

  70. stpeter

    we need demos more than we need money

  71. ralphm

    right

  72. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Yes, I tend to agree. We can unleash Florian to find money.

  73. stpeter

    I think last year we might have made money on the Summit/FOSDEM :)

  74. bear

    ok

  75. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Reminds me - who is our tresurer at the moment? One of your many hats?

  76. stpeter

    I think we can put out a call for demos and scare up some interesting stuff

  77. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: yes, one of my many hats -- we might want to find someone (officially it was Jack but he never got involved)

  78. bear

    personally I would love to see a cross-client jingle demo

  79. stpeter

    the Jitsi folks will be there, no doubt

  80. stpeter

    anyway we can brainstorm about demos

  81. ralphm

    even if we can't actually do the lounge bit, we should still be able to get a regular stand

  82. stpeter

    (another one is that music player that someone poasted last week)

  83. stpeter

    ralphm: right

  84. stpeter

    s/poasted/posted/

  85. ralphm

    that said, we might not. I'm not sure if we should wait with a call for demos until confirmed

  86. Dave Cridland

    Right. But basically all our "real time longue" is is a stand in a conventiant place without a table.

  87. ralphm

    sure

  88. Dave Cridland

    ralphm, When do we know about stands, typically?

  89. stpeter

    we can make it standing room only ;-)

  90. ralphm

    the 22th

  91. ralphm

    See http://fosdem.org/2012/call-for-stands

  92. Dave Cridland

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand

  93. Dave Cridland

    There's at least a start.

  94. Ashley

    actually looks like 13th is deadline for requests

  95. Dave Cridland

    Ashley, Yeah, we got there in the end. :-)

  96. Ashley

    ok

  97. Dave Cridland

    So, shall we go for this stand thing?

  98. stpeter

    I think so, yes

  99. bear

    +1

  100. Ashley

    +1

  101. ralphm

    So, who can make a compelling summary for the application. I'd then be more than happy to put it in

  102. cchris434

    sure

  103. Dave Cridland

    Right, so I've slung together a Wiki page we can work on the summary for. How big does it need to be?

  104. ralphm

    'short'

  105. Ashley

    sounds like it can be informationally focused, so we could just use it as a "promote xmpp"

  106. ralphm

    I'll probably put our motivation in the 'comments' bot

  107. stpeter

    ralphm: do we need to include the lounge idea, or shall we just mention the demonstrations?

  108. ralphm

    Ashley: well, that's a bit vague

  109. Dave Cridland

    Also, I think it's worth making a call for demos so we have at least a couple of example demos we can include, but we'll do the call just to the members list for now.

  110. ralphm

    Ashley: I don't suppose there will be requests that don't promote their project.

  111. Ashley

    well, it doesn't say you have to promote a project

  112. Ashley

    though it *does* use that project word a lot :)

  113. ralphm

    I think a few sentences should be enough.

  114. Ashley

    seems like xmpp awareness could fit in this requirement… be a Free Software or Open Source project (your project produces and releases software under an open source license or otherwise contributes to open source activities and communities),

  115. ralphm

    Ashley: we've manned stands since 2001, I think we are fine on that part

  116. ralphm

    (at FOSDEM)

  117. Ashley

    sure, makes sense

  118. Dave Cridland

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand

  119. Dave Cridland

    How does that look?

  120. Dave Cridland

    (Not that Buddycloud have said anythign about a demo yet)

  121. bear

    i'm chatting with simon now - he is interested

  122. ralphm

    Pretty good. I suppose I should highlight the lounge part of it a bit.

  123. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: WFM (but we might want to include the dreaded "J-word" for context)

  124. Dave Cridland

    I'll massage it a bit.

  125. ralphm

    Do we intend to arrange for bean bags?

  126. bear

    are fosdem folks open to using military examples?

  127. Ashley

    agree this looks good

  128. Dave Cridland

    bear, I don't see why not, as long as it involves open-source.

  129. ralphm

    bear: surely there'll be some people against it

  130. bear

    just asking - never know what those silly EU types are all about

  131. ralphm

    I don't think it is much of an issue

  132. cchris434

    perhaps to broaden the appeal by saying it is also for first responders, etc.

  133. bear

    k

  134. imagi

    hi guys.

  135. Dave Cridland

    bear, Well, NATO is based just down the road, I'm sure it'll be fine.

  136. bear is looking forward to his first fosdem

  137. Ashley

    there's certainly plenty of OSS used in the military, so i wouldn't think this would be a surprise

  138. Dave Cridland

    imagi, You said you had backdrops and things?

  139. cchris434

    no, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise

  140. ralphm

    I don't think we should have to go into details

  141. imagi

    Can provide backdrops and 400 stickers.

  142. Ashley

    but i do like the addition of "first responders" etc

  143. ralphm

    ok

  144. imagi

    and some laptops and team to do demoing work.

  145. cchris434

    yeah, a lot of the deployed scenarios have similar challenges--miltary, first responders, emergency communications, etc.

  146. Ashley

    any "internet of things" demos that folks know about?

  147. Dave Cridland

    Ashley, Might be easier just to pick a different demo.

  148. Ashley

    a la http://www.ices.cmu.edu/censcir/sensor-andrew/

  149. ralphm

    So, I suppose this point is mostly done?

  150. stpeter

    Ashley: I know of some guys in Spain (I think) who had an XMPP-based internet of things application, will reach out

  151. ralphm

    I really need breakfast

  152. Ashley

    cool

  153. stpeter

    :)

  154. Dave Cridland

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand#Real_Time_Lounge Updated.

  155. Dave Cridland

    So, the only other question is whether we're aiming to do Friday, Monday, or both for the summit/interop?

  156. imagi

    buddycloud (lowercase b)

  157. imagi

    I like the "realtime lounge" idea. I'd really like us to de-focus on any chat demos.

  158. Dave Cridland

    I have the gut feel that doing interop on Friday and the Summit proper on Monday seems best. I'm pretty sure we can easy get enough momentum behind interop.

  159. Dave Cridland

    imagi, Right. Basic chat is hard to get a proper "Wow" over, which is what we're aiming for here.

  160. ralphm

    I like that last addition, the fosdem like projects that try to combine smaller projects

  161. cchris434

    so are we de-emphasizing the miltary/first responder aspect of it?

  162. stpeter

    I'd love to see some more interop testing -- e.g., the BOSH testing last year was productive but limited

  163. bear

    +1 to wording

  164. Dave Cridland

    Yes, this did occur to me. Nefarious, that's me.

  165. imagi

    There's a bunch of federated social web people that were thinking of piggybacking onto the XMPP side of things. I'll find out what's happening with that. I know this is an xmpp thing, but it certainly helps having them see XMPP and the light beyond non-federated-http-land.

  166. Dave Cridland

    cchris434, It's very hard to be breif without potentially rubbing people up the wrong way.

  167. Dave Cridland

    cchris434, Doesn't stop us from doing things on the day, of course.

  168. ralphm

    imagi: we are always open for that

  169. cchris434

    sure, that's fine

  170. ralphm

    imagi: like talks in our devroom

  171. imagi

    bc team has a triple play lined up - from me doing my standard rant-fest to some gritty implementation details from dodo.

  172. stpeter

    http://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2011/03/Casado.pdf = XMPP IOT project

  173. imagi

    I think tuomas wants to talk about some XMPP domain blacklisting stuff too.

  174. stpeter

    imagi: sounds good

  175. ralphm

    cchris434: also, the description likely isn't going to be made public

  176. bear

    i'll reach out to the &yet folks - i'm sure fritzy will be there

  177. Dave Cridland

    So, pulling us back a bit - Friday Interop, Monday SUmmit (ie, technical talks) - yes or no?

  178. ralphm

    yea

  179. Ashley

    +1

  180. MattJ

    +1

  181. Dave Cridland

    The reason I want to nail this down is because the Americans need to book flights while they're still relatively cheap.

  182. cchris434

    sure

  183. bear

    +1 (and +1 for flight booking timing)

  184. imagi

    would it make sense to try and co-ordinate an XMPP and federated social web day on Friday too?

  185. stpeter

    I can book the Cisco rooms again

  186. Dave Cridland

    So I count "public support" and unanimous board support. Done with that one then.

  187. imagi

    I expect there will be no clash with the interop folks.

  188. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, That makes sense.

  189. stpeter

    (in fact more rooms so that we can do breakouts for testing)

  190. stpeter

    (etc.)

  191. Dave Cridland

    So - do we have sufficient time, energy, and people present to discuss Athena now?

  192. bear

    we need to fix it - so yes

  193. Dave Cridland

    I'm actually going to take that as a no, and defer that one until next week.

  194. stpeter

    ok

  195. stpeter

    WFM

  196. Dave Cridland

    I think we do need to get it sorted, but I think we can safely wait a week.

  197. stpeter

    so, meeting next week at the same time?

  198. cchris434

    sure

  199. Dave Cridland

    I think that works - note that I believe there's a Council meeting typically starting at 1700, so we'd normally have a tighter time constraint than today.

  200. stpeter

    right

  201. stpeter

    that's not necessarily a bad thing :)

  202. stpeter

    time constraints focus the discusion

  203. stpeter

    +s

  204. bear looks in the mirror

  205. bear

    and less tardy members

  206. stpeter

    heh

  207. Dave Cridland

    Right. So I motion to adjourn.

  208. Ashley

    ok

  209. bear

    seconded

  210. Dave Cridland

    And we're done.

  211. stpeter adds next week's meeting to the calendar

  212. bear waves and goes to see our Moz's IT has done recovering mail and entire colo from downtime

  213. cchris434

    good bye

  214. stpeter

    calendar updated at http://xmpp.org/calendar/

  215. stpeter

    Dave Cridland: shall I point potential demo people to you or to Ralph or to both?

  216. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, I think we should probably do the traditional thing and setup a Wiki page.

  217. stpeter

    heh sure

  218. stpeter

    ok

  219. stpeter

    so http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos

  220. stpeter

    will create some content there

  221. Dave Cridland

    stpeter, Will's not a board member anymore, we can't get him to do it.

  222. stpeter

    http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos created

  223. stpeter

    I'm going to ping the internet of things people in Spain

  224. stpeter

    MattJ: it seems that we never fixed the port 5290 problem on athena (to access the MUC logs)

  225. MattJ

    Indeed, it's on my list... main hold-up was that I changed SSH key and needed to upload my new ones to hermes and athena

  226. MattJ

    Did that, then the next day athena was down :)

  227. stpeter

    ah yeah

  228. stpeter

    heh

  229. stpeter

    brb

  230. Kev

    "Couldn't send message: Message was rejected"

  231. Kev

    That'd be why I wasn't seeing any traffic, then.

  232. stpeter

    heh

  233. stpeter

    I must say that find it annoying when people send me email messages in French and Italian (etc.) and expect me to read them -- at least use Google Translate or somesuch!

  234. stpeter wanders off to kvetch in a different chatroom

  235. Kev

    Kvatch? That's a town in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, isn't it? :)

  236. stpeter

    :P

  237. stpeter

    I grew up in the New York City area, so Yiddishims creep into my day-to-day language...

  238. stpeter

    Yiddishisms even :)

  239. stpeter

    looks like we need to fill out http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012 -- I'll make a start on that this evening along with other things I've been putting off

  240. stpeter

    it seems that the email flow has started to slow down already, perhaps this will give me a chance to catch up