Wednesday, December 07, 2011
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[16:16:49] <Dave Cridland> Hmmm, I just realised that I never sent out a link to the agenda to the members list.
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[16:27:37] <stpeter> Dave Cridland: thanks for sending the agenda link
[16:27:52] <Dave Cridland> Horribly late.
[16:28:03] <Dave Cridland> Had that ready to send for ages and finally dug down to it.
[16:28:11] <stpeter> I think the Board members who are not XSF members are not on the members@xmpp.org list
[16:28:21] <stpeter> or might not be
[16:28:30] <stpeter> that seems advisable
[16:28:34] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, I did send the contents to board@ on Monday.
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[16:29:07] <ralphm> Good start :-D
[16:29:15] <stpeter> hi ralphm!
[16:29:21] <ralphm> Hello from SF, by the way.
[16:29:24] <stpeter> ralphm: how is your trip so far?
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[16:30:08] <Dave Cridland> We seems to be lacking in board members.
[16:30:19] <ralphm> stpeter: Apart from filled sinuses and a bit of a jet lag, pretty good.
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[16:33:03] <stpeter> Dave: I don't see Florian or Ashley online
[16:33:15] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, Florian sent apologies last week.
[16:33:20] <stpeter> ah
[16:33:22] <stpeter> that's right
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[16:33:31] <stpeter> he's at Le Web
[16:33:33] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, You may recall he pleaded the novel excuse of being invited to dinner by the French President.
[16:33:45] <stpeter> Dave Cridland: yeah, some excuse
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[16:33:50] <MattJ> Dave Cridland, I thought you were joking about that :)
[16:34:12] <ralphm_> You'd think he has better things to do
[16:34:17] <MattJ> For the fact it sounded entirely too plausible to be true
[16:34:44] <Dave Cridland> MattJ, Well, it sounds more likely if you consider that Sarkozy doesn't actually know Florian.
[16:34:53] <MattJ> :)
[16:35:26] <MattJ> Thanks for the emails about board meetings though, the main reason I rarely attended them in the past is forgetfulness
[16:35:27] <stpeter> I've pinged and invited bear
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[16:35:46] <stpeter> MattJ: you *can* subscribe to the calendar at http://xmpp.org/calendar/
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[16:36:02] <Dave Cridland> OK, so I suspect we can't have a formal board meeting, but I'd like to still discuss at least the FOSDEM stuff, so we can try to help people nail down travel plans.
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[16:36:50] <Dave Cridland> Also, we're running close to the deadline for a stand - that's the 9th, isn't it?
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[16:37:35] <ralphm> Ugh, connections being dropped here. Switching to a screen(1) session.
[16:37:41] <stpeter> Dave Cridland: agreed on nailing things down, I continue to ping Board members in the background :)
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[16:38:02] <ralphm> deadline is 14th
[16:38:04] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, Nailing things down is not only fun, but satisfying.
[16:38:04] <ralphm> eh 13th
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[16:38:22] <Dave Cridland> ralphm, OK, so before the next Board meeting anyway.
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[16:39:00] <Dave Cridland> So - do we want to try for this "Real Time Lounge" idea?
[16:39:32] <ralphm> sure
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[16:40:22] <Dave Cridland> I'm trying to get some military demos going, perhaps some low-bandwidth stuff.
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[16:40:51] <cchris434> Hi Dave, I still owe you an answer on the demos...will let you know
[16:40:56] <Dave Cridland> I've also tapped Echobit (evolvehq.com) to see if they can show. GIves us an excuse to play games.
[16:41:01] <ralphm> It'd be a nice if someone would make a nice summary for the idea.
[16:41:11] <Dave Cridland> cchris434, That'd be great.
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[16:41:28] <cchris434> yep, I will see, although no promises
[16:41:43] <ralphm> Do those demos involve FOSS?
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[16:42:01] <Dave Cridland> ralphm, Yes, I should think so, for the client at the very least.
[16:42:37] <Dave Cridland> ralphm, Harder to arrange with Echobit, although they use an open-source server, and the XMPP library is also open-source.
[16:42:52] <ralphm> While not critical, as we are more about open standards, it is a big plus at this event.
[16:43:26] <Dave Cridland> ralphm, Yes, I agree. FOSDEM is FOSS, first and foremost, and we should ensure we're never too far from that.
[16:43:52] <ralphm> my point
[16:44:15] <ralphm> I'm sure that when we send out a CFP, we have more of these
[16:44:21] <stpeter> BTW Ashley is on the way
[16:44:31] <ralphm> we just need to be sure we have something already
[16:44:52] <ralphm> so we can put in the request
[16:45:08] <Dave Cridland> Right. So we can hammer out a draft proposal on the Wiki, I suppose?
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[16:45:27] <Dave Cridland> bear, You about?
[16:45:28] <bear> odd - my client sure looked liked I was already attached
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[16:45:44] <stpeter> heh
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[16:46:16] <Dave Cridland> Gosh. We're quorate!
[16:46:18] <bear> we need to talk to the buddycloud folks for the lounge demo
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[16:46:29] <Dave Cridland> bear, Yes, good point too.
[16:46:32] <Ashley> apologies for being late
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[16:46:52] <Dave Cridland> Ashley, Did we mention the public whippings for latecomers?
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[16:47:12] <Ashley> i have callouses, so go ahead… :D
[16:47:15] <bear> mozilla's email has been down for 3 days, so I haven't been able to even poke them about sharing the space - still working on it
[16:47:37] <Dave Cridland> bear, By "sharing the space", you mean what, exactly?
[16:47:39] <stpeter> bear: ouch
[16:48:01] <bear> well, I was hoping that mozilla would help either with demos or with money (both actually)
[16:48:58] <stpeter> we need demos more than we need money
[16:49:11] <ralphm> right
[16:49:17] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, Yes, I tend to agree. We can unleash Florian to find money.
[16:49:23] <stpeter> I think last year we might have made money on the Summit/FOSDEM :)
[16:49:48] <bear> ok
[16:49:51] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, Reminds me - who is our tresurer at the moment? One of your many hats?
[16:49:57] <stpeter> I think we can put out a call for demos and scare up some interesting stuff
[16:50:22] <stpeter> Dave Cridland: yes, one of my many hats -- we might want to find someone (officially it was Jack but he never got involved)
[16:50:47] <bear> personally I would love to see a cross-client jingle demo
[16:51:10] <stpeter> the Jitsi folks will be there, no doubt
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[16:51:42] <stpeter> anyway we can brainstorm about demos
[16:51:47] <ralphm> even if we can't actually do the lounge bit, we should still be able to get a regular stand
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[16:51:53] <stpeter> (another one is that music player that someone poasted last week)
[16:51:56] <stpeter> ralphm: right
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[16:52:10] <stpeter> s/poasted/posted/
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[16:52:12] <ralphm> that said, we might not. I'm not sure if we should wait with a call for demos until confirmed
[16:52:23] <Dave Cridland> Right. But basically all our "real time longue" is is a stand in a conventiant place without a table.
[16:52:36] <ralphm> sure
[16:52:53] <Dave Cridland> ralphm, When do we know about stands, typically?
[16:52:53] <stpeter> we can make it standing room only ;-)
[16:53:09] <ralphm> the 22th
[16:53:17] <ralphm> See http://fosdem.org/2012/call-for-stands
[16:55:11] <Dave Cridland> http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand
[16:55:16] <Dave Cridland> There's at least a start.
[16:55:20] <Ashley> actually looks like 13th is deadline for requests
[16:55:33] <Dave Cridland> Ashley, Yeah, we got there in the end. :-)
[16:55:41] <Ashley> ok
[16:55:56] <Dave Cridland> So, shall we go for this stand thing?
[16:56:05] <stpeter> I think so, yes
[16:56:06] <bear> +1
[16:56:10] <Ashley> +1
[16:56:10] <ralphm> So, who can make a compelling summary for the application. I'd then be more than happy to put it in
[16:56:11] <cchris434> sure
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[16:56:38] <Dave Cridland> Right, so I've slung together a Wiki page we can work on the summary for. How big does it need to be?
[16:56:49] <ralphm> 'short'
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[16:56:57] <Ashley> sounds like it can be informationally focused, so we could just use it as a "promote xmpp"
[16:57:00] <ralphm> I'll probably put our motivation in the 'comments' bot
[16:57:18] <stpeter> ralphm: do we need to include the lounge idea, or shall we just mention the demonstrations?
[16:57:18] <ralphm> Ashley: well, that's a bit vague
[16:57:26] <Dave Cridland> Also, I think it's worth making a call for demos so we have at least a couple of example demos we can include, but we'll do the call just to the members list for now.
[16:57:36] <ralphm> Ashley: I don't suppose there will be requests that don't promote their project.
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[16:58:24] <Ashley> well, it doesn't say you have to promote a project
[16:58:36] <Ashley> though it *does* use that project word a lot :)
[16:59:03] <ralphm> I think a few sentences should be enough.
[16:59:22] <Ashley> seems like xmpp awareness could fit in this requirement… be a Free Software or Open Source project (your project produces and releases software under an open source license or otherwise contributes to open source activities and communities),
[16:59:48] <ralphm> Ashley: we've manned stands since 2001, I think we are fine on that part
[17:00:01] <ralphm> (at FOSDEM)
[17:00:06] <Ashley> sure, makes sense
[17:00:28] <Dave Cridland> http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand
[17:00:32] <Dave Cridland> How does that look?
[17:00:45] <Dave Cridland> (Not that Buddycloud have said anythign about a demo yet)
[17:01:01] <bear> i'm chatting with simon now - he is interested
[17:01:15] <ralphm> Pretty good. I suppose I should highlight the lounge part of it a bit.
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[17:01:37] <stpeter> Dave Cridland: WFM (but we might want to include the dreaded "J-word" for context)
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[17:02:01] <Dave Cridland> I'll massage it a bit.
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[17:02:15] <ralphm> Do we intend to arrange for bean bags?
[17:02:17] <bear> are fosdem folks open to using military examples?
[17:02:30] <Ashley> agree this looks good
[17:02:39] <Dave Cridland> bear, I don't see why not, as long as it involves open-source.
[17:02:57] <ralphm> bear: surely there'll be some people against it
[17:02:59] <bear> just asking - never know what those silly EU types are all about
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[17:03:12] <ralphm> I don't think it is much of an issue
[17:03:17] <cchris434> perhaps to broaden the appeal by saying it is also for first responders, etc.
[17:03:18] <bear> k
[17:03:19] <imagi> hi guys.
[17:03:22] <Dave Cridland> bear, Well, NATO is based just down the road, I'm sure it'll be fine.
[17:03:56] *bear is looking forward to his first fosdem
[17:04:10] <Ashley> there's certainly plenty of OSS used in the military, so i wouldn't think this would be a surprise
[17:04:15] <Dave Cridland> imagi, You said you had backdrops and things?
[17:04:25] <cchris434> no, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise
[17:04:27] <ralphm> I don't think we should have to go into details
[17:04:44] <imagi> Can provide backdrops and 400 stickers.
[17:04:44] <Ashley> but i do like the addition of "first responders" etc
[17:04:56] <ralphm> ok
[17:04:58] <imagi> and some laptops and team to do demoing work.
[17:05:22] <cchris434> yeah, a lot of the deployed scenarios have similar challenges--miltary, first responders, emergency communications, etc.
[17:05:26] <Ashley> any "internet of things" demos that folks know about?
[17:05:27] <Dave Cridland> Ashley, Might be easier just to pick a different demo.
[17:06:24] <Ashley> a la http://www.ices.cmu.edu/censcir/sensor-andrew/
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[17:07:52] <ralphm> So, I suppose this point is mostly done?
[17:07:52] <stpeter> Ashley: I know of some guys in Spain (I think) who had an XMPP-based internet of things application, will reach out
[17:08:20] <ralphm> I really need breakfast
[17:08:27] <Ashley> cool
[17:08:27] <stpeter> :)
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[17:08:36] <Dave Cridland> http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Stand#Real_Time_Lounge Updated.
[17:08:58] <Dave Cridland> So, the only other question is whether we're aiming to do Friday, Monday, or both for the summit/interop?
[17:09:12] <imagi> buddycloud (lowercase b)
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[17:09:51] <imagi> I like the "realtime lounge" idea. I'd really like us to de-focus on any chat demos.
[17:10:04] <Dave Cridland> I have the gut feel that doing interop on Friday and the Summit proper on Monday seems best. I'm pretty sure we can easy get enough momentum behind interop.
[17:10:33] <Dave Cridland> imagi, Right. Basic chat is hard to get a proper "Wow" over, which is what we're aiming for here.
[17:10:48] <ralphm> I like that last addition, the fosdem like projects that try to combine smaller projects
[17:10:56] <cchris434> so are we de-emphasizing the miltary/first responder aspect of it?
[17:10:58] <stpeter> I'd love to see some more interop testing -- e.g., the BOSH testing last year was productive but limited
[17:10:58] <bear> +1 to wording
[17:11:02] <Dave Cridland> Yes, this did occur to me. Nefarious, that's me.
[17:11:24] <imagi> There's a bunch of federated social web people that were thinking of piggybacking onto the XMPP side of things. I'll find out what's happening with that. I know this is an xmpp thing, but it certainly helps having them see XMPP and the light beyond non-federated-http-land.
[17:11:24] <Dave Cridland> cchris434, It's very hard to be breif without potentially rubbing people up the wrong way.
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[17:11:37] <Dave Cridland> cchris434, Doesn't stop us from doing things on the day, of course.
[17:11:47] <ralphm> imagi: we are always open for that
[17:11:48] <cchris434> sure, that's fine
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[17:12:01] <ralphm> imagi: like talks in our devroom
[17:12:35] <imagi> bc team has a triple play lined up - from me doing my standard rant-fest to some gritty implementation details from dodo.
[17:12:47] <stpeter> http://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2011/03/Casado.pdf = XMPP IOT project
[17:12:58] <imagi> I think tuomas wants to talk about some XMPP domain blacklisting stuff too.
[17:13:05] <stpeter> imagi: sounds good
[17:13:30] <ralphm> cchris434: also, the description likely isn't going to be made public
[17:13:40] <bear> i'll reach out to the &yet folks - i'm sure fritzy will be there
[17:13:53] <Dave Cridland> So, pulling us back a bit - Friday Interop, Monday SUmmit (ie, technical talks) - yes or no?
[17:14:14] <ralphm> yea
[17:14:18] <Ashley> +1
[17:14:19] <MattJ> +1
[17:14:20] <Dave Cridland> The reason I want to nail this down is because the Americans need to book flights while they're still relatively cheap.
[17:14:26] <cchris434> sure
[17:14:36] <bear> +1 (and +1 for flight booking timing)
[17:14:43] <imagi> would it make sense to try and co-ordinate an XMPP and federated social web day on Friday too?
[17:14:49] <stpeter> I can book the Cisco rooms again
[17:14:58] <Dave Cridland> So I count "public support" and unanimous board support. Done with that one then.
[17:15:03] <imagi> I expect there will be no clash with the interop folks.
[17:15:04] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, That makes sense.
[17:15:11] <stpeter> (in fact more rooms so that we can do breakouts for testing)
[17:15:16] <stpeter> (etc.)
[17:15:45] <Dave Cridland> So - do we have sufficient time, energy, and people present to discuss Athena now?
[17:16:30] <bear> we need to fix it - so yes
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[17:16:42] <Dave Cridland> I'm actually going to take that as a no, and defer that one until next week.
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[17:16:59] <stpeter> ok
[17:17:00] <stpeter> WFM
[17:17:04] <Dave Cridland> I think we do need to get it sorted, but I think we can safely wait a week.
[17:17:10] <stpeter> so, meeting next week at the same time?
[17:17:11] <cchris434> sure
[17:17:43] <Dave Cridland> I think that works - note that I believe there's a Council meeting typically starting at 1700, so we'd normally have a tighter time constraint than today.
[17:17:59] <stpeter> right
[17:18:03] <stpeter> that's not necessarily a bad thing :)
[17:18:09] <stpeter> time constraints focus the discusion
[17:18:13] <stpeter> +s
[17:18:37] *bear looks in the mirror
[17:18:41] <bear> and less tardy members
[17:18:51] <stpeter> heh
[17:19:22] <Dave Cridland> Right. So I motion to adjourn.
[17:19:39] <Ashley> ok
[17:19:55] <bear> seconded
[17:20:13] <Dave Cridland> And we're done.
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[17:20:25] *stpeter adds next week's meeting to the calendar
[17:21:01] *bear waves and goes to see our Moz's IT has done recovering mail and entire colo from downtime
[17:21:18] <cchris434> good bye
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[17:22:02] <stpeter> calendar updated at http://xmpp.org/calendar/
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[17:37:17] <stpeter> Dave Cridland: shall I point potential demo people to you or to Ralph or to both?
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[17:37:44] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, I think we should probably do the traditional thing and setup a Wiki page.
[17:38:00] <stpeter> heh sure
[17:38:01] <stpeter> ok
[17:38:52] <stpeter> so http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos
[17:38:56] <stpeter> will create some content there
[17:39:17] <Dave Cridland> stpeter, Will's not a board member anymore, we can't get him to do it.
[17:41:21] <stpeter> http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos created
[17:41:32] <stpeter> I'm going to ping the internet of things people in Spain
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[17:48:38] <stpeter> MattJ: it seems that we never fixed the port 5290 problem on athena (to access the MUC logs)
[17:49:15] <MattJ> Indeed, it's on my list... main hold-up was that I changed SSH key and needed to upload my new ones to hermes and athena
[17:49:22] <MattJ> Did that, then the next day athena was down :)
[17:49:22] <stpeter> ah yeah
[17:49:26] <stpeter> heh
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[17:54:18] <stpeter> brb
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[19:15:48] <Kev> "Couldn't send message: Message was rejected"
[19:15:53] <Kev> That'd be why I wasn't seeing any traffic, then.
[19:21:03] <stpeter> heh
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[19:22:03] <stpeter> I must say that find it annoying when people send me email messages in French and Italian (etc.) and expect me to read them -- at least use Google Translate or somesuch!
[19:23:45] *stpeter wanders off to kvetch in a different chatroom
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[19:27:56] <Kev> Kvatch? That's a town in Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, isn't it? :)
[19:31:31] <stpeter> :P
[19:32:04] <stpeter> I grew up in the New York City area, so Yiddishims creep into my day-to-day language...
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[19:39:34] <stpeter> Yiddishisms even :)
[19:40:23] <stpeter> looks like we need to fill out http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012 -- I'll make a start on that this evening along with other things I've been putting off
[19:45:28] <stpeter> it seems that the email flow has started to slow down already, perhaps this will give me a chance to catch up
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