Wednesday, January 11, 2012
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[05:09:50] <Marc> hi i need help
[05:09:54] <Marc> :'(
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[14:11:39] <goffi> g'day
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[14:31:27] <Neustradamus> goffi would like to know if you have news about this request ? http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012_Demos and on ML.
[14:32:07] <goffi> Neustradamus: I have just posted an email about this
[14:32:15] <goffi> on summit@
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[14:37:32] <ralphm> unless we suddenly have too many applications, in general you're in
[14:37:50] <ralphm> dwd and I will look into what we have, later today
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[16:16:23] <Florian> Board meeting in 15mins
[16:20:21] <stpeter> yepper
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[16:23:04] <stpeter> dented and tweeted
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[16:28:12] <dwd> Florian, You here (again) now?
[16:28:52] <dwd> (He said he'd lost his Virgin connection. I did *not* many any witty response whatsoever.)
[16:30:50] <stpeter> Florian is on a mobile device but might not be able to join this room using it
[16:32:22] <dwd> Well, I guess it's time.
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[16:33:10] <dwd> I'm not going to look at quorum as such unless something actually comes up that we need to vote on, but it's awkward that Florian's not here, because I was going to ask him to summarize a few things.
[16:34:05] <stpeter> hmph
[16:34:08] <stpeter> http://speeqe.com/room/xsf@muc.xmpp.org/ doesn't work
[16:34:23] <stpeter> I wonder if that's because speeqe can't handle non-standard s2s ports
[16:35:04] <stpeter> we could paste MUC messages into a one-to-one chat -- I had to do that recently with Chris
[16:35:04] <dwd> Could be.
[16:36:21] <dwd> I can't actually figure out which resource he's on, otherwise I'd do so.
[16:36:41] <stpeter> I'm chatting with him in another window
[16:36:55] <Kev> He can use the web logs, too.
[16:37:03] <Kev> Now that Matt fixed them.
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[16:38:08] <dwd> OK.
[16:38:26] <dwd> So I think these are up to date:
http://xmpp.org/participate/the-xmpp-summit/xmpp-summit-11/
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[16:38:42] <stpeter> hi Chris
[16:38:51] <dwd> http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/FOSDEM_2012
[16:38:55] <cchris434> sorry about that
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[16:39:13] <dwd> cchris434, That's fine, I'm not treating this as a proper meeting anyway, as such.
[16:39:19] <cchris434> ok
[16:39:54] *stpeter pings Ashley
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[16:40:26] <Ashley Roach> sorry
[16:40:28] *dwd makes edit to FOSDEM_2012, noting that SImon has two talks instead of just the one he should have.
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[16:40:45] <dwd> OK, so we have 8 talks, and 8 hours to do them in.
[16:41:18] <stpeter> dwd: Simon just pinged the W3C Federated Social Web discussion list
[16:41:40] <dwd> I kept the "Ask The Experts" sessions out of it, and equally, the first talk there is going to be a short one welcoming people to the room, while Remko, Peter, and Kev setup for the talk I've put them in for.
[16:41:45] <stpeter> I think some of those folks will be interested in giving talks -- we can have a block of time for FSW topics
[16:42:13] <dwd> stpeter, Right, but my point is we're not actually looking too bad for talks, depending on the length.
[16:42:20] <Kev> I'm happy to give an additional talk if anyone can think of anything I know something about that's interesting. I'm not sure there is much.
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[16:42:40] <dwd> Kev, Names of characters on Star Wars MMORPGs?
[16:43:02] <Kev> I've yet to meet Lord Zash, but I'm sure she's a lovely person.
[16:43:13] <stpeter> BTW I am keeping Florian informed about the messages here (note to self: write bot that relays a MUC room over one-to-one chat)
[16:43:41] <stpeter> Florian says:

[09:42:23] <Florian> We need 8 more talks
[09:42:32] <Florian> The Jitsi guys might hold one or two

[16:44:15] <dwd> Meanwhile, we apparently have 12 people for the dinner, which is very low.
[16:44:27] <stpeter> [09:43:18] <Florian> About Jingle or other stuff
[16:44:31] <dwd> That's usually a good indicator of attendance, so I'm a little concerned.
[16:45:25] <dwd> stpeter, It depends on the talks' length. If we're assuming that each talk is a half-hour slot, then yes, there's 16 talks we need. I suspect, though, that different talks are different lengths, and we'll need to get a handle on that.
[16:45:29] <Kev> I've just not filled out the form yet.
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[16:45:51] <Kev> dwd: I think we should think very carefully before assigning more than 30mins to any talk other than 101.
[16:45:59] <stpeter> Kev: agreed
[16:46:09] <stpeter> short talks are more engaging
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[16:47:35] <stpeter> [09:45:44] <Florian> Re dinner people: this is after 2 days of menu submissions
[09:45:59] <Florian> So it's not that bad
[16:47:48] <dwd> There's usually one or two talks that are worth extending. Simon Tennant was going to talk about XMPP/Web, as with his recent post - I've a feeling that could easily cause a floor debate.
[16:48:01] <stpeter> floor debate would be excellent
[16:48:15] <dwd> Right. I think we should assume this will happen, and plan for it, in this case.
[16:48:27] <stpeter> [09:47:09] <Florian> Hotel booking link will be live tomorrow. Talked to them this afternoon
[16:48:28] <Kev> Simon's talk may be a good one to seriously consider.
[16:48:39] <Kev> But that's still only two at more than 30mins.
[16:49:18] <dwd> Florian, ANd yes, I know it's only two days, but still, I was hoping to see a little more enthusiasm.
[16:49:20] <stpeter> [09:48:08] <Florian> Yeah, floor debates would be cool
[16:49:22] <Kev> I shudder even thinking about an hour-long talk on "Hey, I wrote an XMPP client" like we've had in previous years.
[16:49:27] <stpeter> :)
[16:50:16] <stpeter> dwd: we just keep poking people, and probably need to establish deadlines of sorts for talks, dinner, etc.
[16:50:20] *dwd thinks that SImon's talk and Dodo's talk have been swapped, possibly. Will check.
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[16:51:15] <dwd> stpeter, Yes, true. That said, an alarming number of people I've personally poked have said they're not coming, or are unlikely to come at this stage.
[16:51:36] <Kev> To the summit or the meal?
[16:51:48] <dwd> Kev, To the whole thing.
[16:52:00] <stpeter> well, FOSDEM is always a bit difficult because it happens so soon after the winter holidays -- it's difficult to get prepared so quickly after that, and before that people are focused on other things
[16:52:05] <Kev> That's a shame.
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[16:53:53] <dwd> Right. But still, we can deal with most of this.
[16:54:03] <dwd> What we are very short on, currently, is demos.
[16:54:21] <stpeter> [09:52:26] <Florian> Same issue here as dwd. A lot of no's or not sure
[16:55:34] <dwd> SO far, from memory, buddycloud, openov.nl, and Salut à toi are doing demos. I'm still trying to get something interesting together.
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[16:56:22] <dwd> Anyone know of any more?
[16:56:46] <dwd> Oh, there's some possibility of doing Jingle calls between us an the Jitsi people, I think.
[16:56:56] <Astro> just a little side question: will there be video recordings of the buddycloud talk?
[16:57:17] <dwd> Astro, Not unless somebody videos them.
[16:57:31] <stpeter> right
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[16:57:38] <stpeter> FOSDEM doesn't provide such services :)
[16:57:42] <Astro> ok, thanks
[16:58:04] <Kev> dwd: I *suppose* we could do some sort of "lots of platforms talking together" (with phones, tablets, whathaveyous all joined into a MUC), but it's clutching at straws.
[16:58:06] <stpeter> dwd: I pinged some smartgrid folks about an XMPP demo
[16:58:32] <dwd> Kev, I suppose it's a nice demo of the myriad of platforms XMPP runs on, yes.
[16:59:19] <dwd> Florian says:
[16:56:36] Florian Jensen: Yes, jitsi
[16:56:58] Florian Jensen: They're up for talks and demod
[16:59:45] <stpeter> I suppose we could have demos of things we know use XMPP even if the developers aren't there -- drop.io and such
[16:59:57] <stpeter> Google Hangouts :)
[16:59:58] <stpeter> and all that
[17:00:10] <stpeter> [09:58:55] <Florian> Jitsi: would be cool to have a video call going from the RTL to the Jitsi stand
[17:00:12] <dwd> We also need to figure out what to populate the stand with - by which I mean, projectors, beanbags, or whatever the heck else we fancy.
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[17:00:44] <dwd> Florian, Yes, I agree. I think it's a neat demonstration of the reality of XMPP as a Skype competitor.
[17:00:58] <Kev> +
[17:01:04] <Kev> +1
[17:01:20] <dwd> stpeter, I was meaning to ask - can Cisco lend us projectors and things, for FOSDEM?
[17:01:39] <stpeter> dwd: no idea, but I can find out
[17:02:17] <dwd> stpeter, Otherwise we can probably hire them easily enough, but I thought Cisco might have that kind of kit around.
[17:02:31] <stpeter> dwd: I'll be at the Cisco office in Diegem on Thursday afternoon (I have an IESG telechat starting at 16:30 local time, I believe), so I can pick up equipment if needed and possible
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[17:02:51] <stpeter> [10:01:32] <Florian> So i think demoes is not really a problem
[17:03:00] <stpeter> [10:01:52] <Florian> It's more the beanbags
[17:03:10] <stpeter> I don't think the Cisco offices have beanbags on offer ;-)
[17:03:50] <stpeter> [10:02:28] <Florian> Yes, Cisco projectors would be a great help
[17:04:01] <stpeter> I'll see what I can do for projectors
[17:04:10] <stpeter> this is for the RTL lounge?
[17:04:20] <dwd> Yes.
[17:04:22] <stpeter> would we also need a screen>
[17:04:33] <dwd> And yes, I'm not aware of Cisco beanbags.
[17:04:47] <stpeter> i.e., on what will we project?
[17:05:00] <dwd> Screens would be useful. If needs be we can project onto walls - I'd prefer that if we can.
[17:05:41] <stpeter> ok
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[17:06:06] <stpeter> well, we could borrow this stuff on Friday and return it Monday, so I wouldn't need to shlepp it all on Thursday
[17:06:18] <stpeter> I'll follow up with the Cisco folks in Diegem about it
[17:06:27] <dwd> Thanks.
[17:06:40] <dwd> ANd if they happen to have Cisco iBeanbags, that'd be great too.
[17:06:55] <stpeter> hehe
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[17:07:40] <stpeter> I've never seen a beanbag in a Cisco office -- it's not some hip startup ;-)
[17:08:00] <dwd> We should probably look about and see if such things could be hired.
[17:08:20] <dwd> Unless there are any hip startups attending who could lend us their beanbags.
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[17:09:54] <stpeter> [10:08:16] <Florian> I might try BetaCowork
[10:08:49] <Florian> They're an incubator
[17:10:14] <stpeter> [10:09:03] <Florian> They have such things
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[17:10:53] <dwd> OK. And I guess there must be places in Brussels that deal with trade shows wanting odd things, etc.
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[17:11:32] <Florian> hi
[17:11:39] <Florian> so ... Virgin Media is back for a bit
[17:11:39] <dwd> Florian, It lives!
[17:11:54] <stpeter> heh nice
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[17:11:59] <Florian> so yeah, BetaCoWork ... don't know anyone there really
[17:12:02] <Florian> but I know 2 members
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[17:12:07] *stpeter can stop his personal relay service
[17:12:14] <Florian> and we might be able to get help from them with beanbags
[17:12:24] <Florian> stpeter: thanks for that :)
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[17:13:23] *stpeter loads http://code.matthewwild.co.uk/riddim/ for later investigation of bot experimentation
[17:13:24] <Florian> I think the urgent thing now is ...
[17:13:27] <Florian> get a list of talks compiled
[17:13:31] <Florian> and put up on the xmpp.org page
[17:13:38] <Florian> so that we can also submit them to FOSDEM
[17:13:40] <stpeter> yes
[17:13:43] <stpeter> yes
[17:13:43] <stpeter> yes
[17:13:44] <Florian> I think the deadline for talks is the 15th
[17:13:53] <stpeter> ok
[17:14:00] <Florian> and we need to tell them that we only want the RTL, not RTL + Stand
[17:14:05] <stpeter> so we need to put out a clear call for talks with deadline
[17:14:13] <Florian> yes
[17:14:16] <stpeter> I can do that on jdev/standards/summit
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[17:14:38] <Florian> great
[17:14:39] <dwd> Florian, There was some discussion with Ralph about that last night.
[17:14:44] <Florian> ah
[17:14:45] <dwd> stpeter, Please.
[17:15:06] <dwd> Florian, We seem to have both, but they'll cancel the stand if the RTL comes together, or something.
[17:15:15] <Florian> ah right, that sounds good
[17:15:24] <Florian> well, let's focus on the RTL
[17:15:35] <Florian> worst case, we take the work from the RTL to the stand
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[17:16:04] <dwd> Florian, I wasn't clear on the details, Ralph was going to ask them in detail later today.
[17:16:14] <Florian> ah, great
[17:16:24] <Florian> well, as long as they were made aware of the situation
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[17:20:44] <Florian> anything else?
[17:22:06] <dwd> No, I don't think so.
[17:22:22] <dwd> Is there anything else from anyone else?
[17:22:40] <Ashley Roach> Not from me
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[17:22:56] <stpeter> I just pinged the FSW list again
[17:22:56] <dwd> We'll call it a meeting, then.
[17:23:05] <stpeter> that is public-xg-federatedsocialweb@w3.org
[17:23:05] <Ashley Roach> seconded
[17:23:15] <Florian> great
[17:23:15] <stpeter> it's a public list in case you'd like to join
[17:23:18] <Florian> thanks all!
[17:23:21] <Florian> oh ... one last thing ...
[17:23:31] <dwd> Florian, Yes, Columbo?
[17:23:45] <Florian> if you know anyone else who has some money lying around ... dinner sponsorship is always appreciated
[17:23:49] <Florian> I'm thinking 50 Cent: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2085191/50-Cent-Floyd-Mayweather-photos-Rapper-shows-loose-change.html
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[17:29:38] <dwd> Florian, Wow. Subtle guy.
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[17:35:36] <stpeter> I sent an email about devroom talks
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[17:38:56] <stpeter> I'm going to open posting to summit@xmpp.org for a few days so that non-members can post
[17:39:13] <dwd> OK, sounds like a good idea.
[17:39:43] <stpeter> i.e., moderator can approve
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[17:44:22] <stpeter> shall we have another chat next week to maintain momentum?
[17:44:28] <stpeter> I can add it to the calendar
[17:46:21] <dwd> Please.
[17:47:28] <stpeter> that will immediately follow the next XMPP Council meeting
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[17:47:50] <dwd> Oh, on the "ask the experts" thing we usually do - I was wondering if we have shorter, more focussed versions in between the talks, to allow for speaker transition (given that the ask the experts sessions have no slides or laptops).
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[17:48:08] <stpeter> yeah
[17:48:16] <stpeter> that might work
[17:48:18] <dwd> So we'd have talk, followed by ask the experts on security, followed by talk, followed by a-t-e on pubsub, or something.
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[17:50:05] <dwd> PubSubHubbub! I'm not sure we allow *that* sort of thing...
[17:50:15] <stpeter> heehee
[17:50:24] <Zash> Not sure if want.
[17:50:41] <stpeter> I think it could be a useful discussion -- compare and contrast
[17:51:09] <stpeter> and it might lead to some lively interactions :)
[17:51:12] <Zash> über basics of pubsub + dialback :P
[17:51:26] <Kev> We could have some SIMPLE folks come in and present...
[17:51:42] <stpeter> Kev: now that's beyond the pale!
[17:51:48] <dwd> Kev, I'll ask Florian about obtaining rotten tomatos.
[17:52:01] <Kev> Or Y! Messenger, perhaps.
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[17:53:09] <Kev> A certain presentation from a few years ago is brought to mind, where the presenter took it as an opportunity to bash the XSF and explain that he was smarter than everyone there.
[17:53:54] <Kev> ...and then I realise Peter might have been the only other one (here) there.
[17:54:09] <dwd> Yeah, I'm just a noob.
[17:55:19] <stpeter> I don't recall that presenter
[17:55:21] <Kev> No Doubt - Just a noob.
[17:55:33] <Kev> stpeter: Virtual avatars.
[17:55:53] <stpeter> ah yes
[17:56:18] <stpeter> although I don't remember much bashing -- perhaps I'm thick-skinned or I just have a bad memory
[17:56:40] <Kev> Maybe I misremember. I was young(er) and foolish(er) back then :)
[17:57:48] <stpeter> :)
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[17:58:16] <Florian> well, if we can get someone from Yahoo or Microsoft there
[17:58:18] <Florian> it would be great to have a panel :)
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[17:58:40] <dwd> MSFT arem after all, users of XMPP now.
[17:58:52] <Florian> hehe
[17:59:00] <dwd> I actually dropped Bernard Aboba a mail suggesting they came.
[17:59:00] <stpeter> brb
[17:59:08] <dwd> Haven't heard anything, yet.
[17:59:29] <Zash> Hm, what about Facebook?
[18:00:02] <dwd> I have no contacts there.
[18:00:56] <Florian> yeah, if any of the big guys could send someone
[18:01:03] <Florian> they can bring dinner sponsorship :)
[18:01:14] <dwd> I did think about trying to contact the Valve/Steam guys.
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[18:01:42] <dwd> I've no contacts there, either, but they're one of the last big IM systems without XMPP access, I think.
[18:01:49] <dwd> I mean, relevant ones. :-)
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[18:02:52] <Kev> I saw a review of Evolve on RPS today, and noticed one of the commenters posting "They'd better be using XMPP" or such.
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[18:03:09] <dwd> Nice.
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[18:07:47] <Neustradamus> I can see for facebook, I can join XMPP developer guys of Facebook.
[18:07:56] <Neustradamus> you have a message ?
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[18:37:47] <Neustradamus> stpeter: can you send me the xmpp.org theme ?
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[18:38:16] <stpeter> it's the Carrington Theme
[18:38:31] <stpeter> you want the specific PHP files currently on the file system?
[18:38:32] <Neustradamus> yes with modifications
[18:38:48] <Neustradamus> I would like the theme folder.
[18:40:31] *stpeter wonders if we should try Carrington Mobile
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[18:40:47] <stpeter> Neustradamus: tarfile OK?
[18:42:13] <Neustradamus> yes
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[18:44:50] <stpeter> sent
[18:44:51] <stpeter> brb
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[18:46:31] <Kevin> Is possible to install windows 3.1 or 6.3 on Nokia mobiles.Symbian Os?
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[18:50:36] <Zash> Hm?
[18:52:35] <Kevin> mmhmm
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[18:59:50] <Neustradamus> stpeter: thx
[19:00:21] <stpeter> Neustradamus: sure thing, sorry about the delay
[19:00:30] <Neustradamus> stpeter: no problem !
[19:00:48] <Neustradamus> about redirections, have you seen ?
[19:00:48] *dwd has done his XSF [re]application.
[19:01:23] <dwd> http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/Dave_Cridland_Application_2012
[19:01:28] *dwd is quite proud.
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[19:02:01] <stpeter> Neustradamus: the www stuff?
[19:02:08] <Neustradamus> yes
[19:02:32] <Zash> dwd :D
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[19:03:44] <Neustradamus> dwd: beautiful !
[19:04:17] <stpeter> Neustradamus: I just fixed a few instances of that in redirects.conf
[19:04:28] <stpeter> Neustradamus: maybe that solves the problem
[19:06:08] <Kev> We really need to sort out our redirects at some point to be less broken.
[19:06:20] <stpeter> Kev: indeed
[19:06:23] <Kev> I still haven't worked out how Cacti got broken without the redirects being changed.
[19:06:30] <Neustradamus> you must patch it all proposals ? http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/
[19:06:53] <Neustradamus> stpeter: http://xmpp.org/extensions/inbox/bind.html
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[19:08:17] <Neustradamus> same for XEP date : "© 1999 - 2011 XMPP Standards Foundation. SEE LEGAL NOTICES." +1 year
[19:09:28] <stpeter> Neustradamus: I changed the copyright date in the templates, but I haven't regenerated all the files because some of them are "interim" versions...
[19:09:45] <Neustradamus> ok
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[19:10:56] <stpeter> but yeah I see that the old redirects to jabber.org are broken -- something else to fix :)
[19:11:03] <stpeter> time for lunch, bbiab
[19:12:28] <Neustradamus> http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/XSF_website_gap_analysis_notes ;)
[19:14:09] <Neustradamus> http://tracker.xmpp.org/ problem !
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