XSF Discussion - 2012-04-20


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  32. Florian afternoon all
  33. Florian Board meeting in 20?
  34. Florian board meeting time?
  35. Florian dwd bear?
  36. dwd Afternoon.
  37. dwd Yes, meeting time.
  38. dwd Florian, I think this may be the first meeting we've had across three continents.
  39. Florian if bear is here, we're quorate, right?
  40. dwd Florian, If he's awake. bear ?
  41. Florian haha ... I think you might be right
  42. Kev You need to change the bylaws so I count towards quorum, as I'm always here :p
  43. Florian heh ...
  44. dwd Kev, We can't do that, we need a members meeting.
  45. Florian I think that says less about the bylaws than it does about you :)
  46. dwd Kev, I think we can allocate ourselves a salary, though. Or at least, we can appoint ourselves into an officer's position and then give ourselves a salary.
  47. Florian :)
  48. cchris434 has joined
  49. dwd Hi Chris.
  50. cchris434 hi Chris here
  51. cchris434 hello!
  52. Florian Hi Chris :)
  53. Kev I'm happy with handing out salaries as long as I get one.
  54. dwd Well, that's certainly quorate.
  55. dwd Kev, I bet you wish you could vote, now.
  56. bear is here
  57. dwd OK, and now we are four.
  58. Florian all good then :)
  59. cchris434 sorry that I was late
  60. dwd So, we don't actually have any real agenda, but stuff has been happening nonetheless.
  61. Florian GSoC is one thing
  62. dwd Kev, My understanding is that the Summer of Code application went well?
  63. Kev We got slots for all the students we wanted marked "Amazing", although none of the ones that were "Nice to have".
  64. Kev But as that's already more slots than in the last couple of years we did pretty well.
  65. dwd How many is that?
  66. Kev 7
  67. Florian I think that's a nice number
  68. dwd OK, so two questions:
  69. dwd 1) What's the next step?
  70. Kev 1) Attending the dedup meeting in approximately 3 hours 19 minutes.
  71. dwd 2) Presumably this means we get 7 x $SOMETHING into the XSF's piggy bank at some point?
  72. dwd What's a dedup meeting?
  73. Kev If multiple orgs accept the same student it's a dupe.
  74. bear some students are accepted by more than one org - dedupe is when they figure out who wins the student
  75. Kev These need to be resolved.
  76. Florian right
  77. Florian do we know of any risks in our case?
  78. Kev This will take about 5 minutes, as all the dupes should already have been sorted out between the orgs (ours was, at least).
  79. Kev Florian: I've already resolved our only known duplicate.
  80. Florian alright :)
  81. Kev It's possible for more to occur during the meeting, but this is unlikely to affect us.
  82. Kev The next real step is sorting out an appropriate welcome for the students.
  83. Kev I'm hoping someone will help with this, as I'll be fairly busy with my own student.
  84. Florian appropriate welcome in what sense? A nice mail + blog post?
  85. Florian or should we give them XMPP Swag?
  86. Kev We typically give them swag, although I think we dropped the ball a bit last year.
  87. Florian right ... books for all?
  88. bear yes, I messed up the books for last year
  89. bear tshirt + books would be nice IMO
  90. Florian right
  91. Kev But yes, we should make sure they're on the gsoc mailing list, we should make sure they know who to talk to.
  92. Florian I was thinking of shirts / hoodies ... but they're locked up at Cisco Diegem
  93. Kev I'd like it if someone other than me was a possible contact - at least so my student has a chance to bitch to someone about me.
  94. Florian I'd be happy to help
  95. Kev Thanks.
  96. bear I can help monitor the gsoc xmpp list
  97. Kev Thanks.
  98. Florian I need to join that :)
  99. Kev I note that we did have a bit of an issue this year.
  100. bear the stuck-in-moderation issue?
  101. Kev louiz' didn't read any of my mails or Carol's emails, and so hasn't started deciding he wants students for poezio until today - which is clearly far too late to be able to do anything about it.
  102. bear ah
  103. Kev So some poor students haven't got slots through no fault of their own.
  104. Kev Other next steps include setting up weekly meetings for all students and mentors in the gsoc room.
  105. bear that was hard to wrangle last year - the students were in timezones that made a common meeting hard
  106. Florian alright
  107. Florian what time worked last year?
  108. Kev As for books, I suggest the two XMPP books, pragprog and something on time management.
  109. Kev Florian: Typically evening UK time is what we go for, we'll see once we have the students.
  110. Florian alright
  111. Kev We will also need some blog post, I imagine.
  112. Florian on a sidenote: what's the URL / E-mail to subscribe to gsoc?
  113. Kev To our gsoc list, you mean?
  114. Florian yeah
  115. Florian I'm on the Google one
  116. Florian Kev: if you send me the info that need to go into the blogpost, I can write one tomorrow at the airport
  117. Kev http://mail.jabber.org/mailman/listinfo/gsoc
  118. Kev Florian: Thanks - but we can't discuss our accepted students until they know themselves, which is Monday :)
  119. bear we could use an etherpad to start coordinating student meetings and posts
  120. Florian or that :)
  121. bear so we all have info on which student is attending and also blogging
  122. Kev bear: We should get all the students to set themselves up with blogs and onto planet, too, yeah.
  123. Florian gsoc@xmpp.org. You are already subscribed to this mailing list.
  124. Florian interesting
  125. Kev Congratulations :)
  126. bear part of their "Day 1" activities: wiki accounts, blog planet, meeting info, mailing address
  127. Kev Ok, so we've got a bunch of stuff to do, but we can't do it until Monday.
  128. Florian alright
  129. bear actually - we should create a gsoc 2012 wiki page
  130. bear and have the students, when known, start filling in info
  131. Kev We can sign them up to the mailing list and wiki ourselves, but theother things need their interaction.
  132. dwd So aside from approving $MONEY to spend on $BOOKS, does the Board need to do anything here?
  133. Kev Is someone willing to offer to sort out bear's list of TODOs above, Monday or Tuesday next week?
  134. bear florian - we can meet monday and work out the list
  135. Florian bear: sounds good
  136. Kev Is that bear and Florian sorting out the student welcome?
  137. bear kev - yes
  138. Florian yup
  139. Kev Marvellous, thanks chaps.
  140. Kev I will chase if I remember, once the announcements go out.
  141. dwd bear, Florian - that's including the swag, right?
  142. Kev dwd: 2) Yes, there will be $3500 available to the XSF towards the end of the year. We'll need to invoice for it. I believe we failed to last year.
  143. bear it can
  144. Kev For books I suggest we go with the two XMPP books, PragProg and something timemanagementy.
  145. Florian alright
  146. Kev Assuming we can swallow the cost until the end of the year.
  147. bear where I failed last year was in getting addresses for shipping until way to late
  148. dwd Kev, Yes, we can.
  149. dwd Where is the list of students going to be documented?
  150. bear it will be on the xsf's gsoc page
  151. bear actually it is, just private
  152. Kev dwd: On google-melange.com. I can just tell you who right now if you want - but not in a logged public channel.
  153. Kev It's not final until Monday, but it's very nearly a done deal at this point unless the dedup meeting throws us a new dupe.
  154. dwd Kev, Sure - it was more of a question of our internal logistics, not because I wanted to know.
  155. Kev I note that there wasn't much Board help in ranking students this year.
  156. Kev In fact, only Florian signed up.
  157. dwd OK, noted.
  158. dwd Kev, Anything more on GSoC?
  159. Kev And I think that's GSoC covered.
  160. Florian great
  161. dwd So in summary, Florian and bear are sorting out student welcomes on Monday.
  162. Florian yup
  163. bear yes
  164. Ashley has joined
  165. Florian I quickly wanted to bring up another thing ...
  166. Florian if we're done with GSOC
  167. dwd Florian, Shoot.
  168. bear did we approve money for books?
  169. Florian bear: I think we did
  170. dwd bear, In principle - get a proposal together. I'm assuming it'll all come to << what we're getting.
  171. Florian right :)
  172. bear k, once we have list of students I can find out what cost will be for shipping
  173. Florian coolbeans
  174. Florian at the Summit in Brussels, we talked about BrowserID and letting XMPP become the standard for it
  175. dwd bear, Sure, but if we're getting books, we can ship locally (ie, ship to EU from EU, etc).
  176. dwd Florian, Yeah, we discussed a lot in this space and we (meaning I, mostly) haven't followed up much.
  177. Florian right
  178. Florian I think we should push this as the board
  179. bear what is required for pushing?
  180. bear internal to moz i'm pushing hard to get some work done on 2 dns srv related bugs
  181. Florian good question ... I think just starting conversation with entities such as BrowserID (Mozilla?)
  182. dwd bear, Someone who works for Mozilla getting the right (BrowserID + XMPP) folk in a chatroom together, probably.
  183. bear to allow js code to make dns questions
  184. bear buddycloud folk are already in touch with all the mozilla people
  185. Florian ah, cool
  186. Florian so maybe get them together too?
  187. bear but maybe we need to start having buddycloud have public conversations so mozilla folk have to respond in public
  188. bear right now I think it's all via email
  189. dwd OK, so the thing to do from a Board perspective is to push these conversations into the public sphere.
  190. bear +1
  191. Florian +2
  192. cchris434 +3
  193. bear let me ping simon
  194. Florian and make sure XMPP becomes the glue for the internet :)
  195. bear and ask what he is blocked on
  196. bear well, and to also get him to post to the list about it
  197. Florian is it worth that we get a SIG ?
  198. bear we need to figure out what all the pieces are
  199. dwd The problem with SIGs is that we run the risk of them having too small a number of people to keep momentum. I'd rather form SIGs by demand, in general.
  200. Kev I agree.
  201. dwd My inclination is that if Simon & co are actively driving this, we should let them continue, and support them where we can.
  202. bear yes
  203. Florian yes, I agree
  204. simon has joined
  205. Florian I think we (the XSF) need to push this in the next few months
  206. dwd Although pulling the discussion into the public seems like something we should push for, of course.
  207. dwd Ah, speak of the Simon.
  208. simon tips his hat.
  209. dwd simon, Your discussions with Mozilla - we'd like them to be public, if at all possible. What can we do to help?
  210. simon At the moment someone needs to implement a proof of concept. I'll be in Mountain View next week and would like to meet with Ben Adida at Mozilla again.
  211. bear i'm sending him an email right now to try and get that done
  212. simon There's no secret on progress. I've just exceeded my mental bandwith this month and so nothing has happened.
  213. bear more resources at mozilla are being thrown into the persona and identity space
  214. bear internally they are gearing up to enter that space as a company
  215. bear so now is the time to get under their noses
  216. simon I like that Thunderbird has an XMPP stack now and perhaps something could come out of that. From my own opinion I'm really keen on "get a channel, you've got a browserID"
  217. Florian right
  218. dwd simon, RIght, our aim here (as XSF) is to ensure that XMPP is the identity/browserid solution.
  219. Florian for me I see it this way: you have a single ID (a JID), and all your friends are on there
  220. simon Ben was really keen on not excluding an XMPP component... but there isn't any demo for that yet.
  221. simon momspeak: "My email that I can chat with also enables me to sign into my Etsy account"
  222. bear with tbird now doing xmpp - the time is right for other parts of moz to do the same
  223. Florian indeed
  224. Florian and if you think of identity ... it consists of you (authentication) and your network (your roster)
  225. simon Bear: how will mozilla be spinning up XMPP hosting?
  226. Florian and we have notifications sorted
  227. bear email sent to ben and david ascher about your being in MV
  228. Florian as we can do push
  229. dwd So, we really need a tech demo done, you think?
  230. bear yes
  231. dwd .
  232. Florian hmm, would it be worth spending some money on doing that?
  233. bear I haven't pushed for moz running their own xmpp - I think the ops folks are scared of it by lack of knowledge
  234. Florian bear: they should contact a third party :)
  235. bear the last one they tried was ejabberd
  236. simon Mozilla should just make a nice sign-up process that can spin you offto other known providers. (heck, they don't host email either).
  237. simon shudders.
  238. dwd has left
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  240. bear they don't host it *yet*
  241. simon It's a problem we have with bc too. The next version will help a user choose a good domain.
  242. bear email hosting was the biggest problem for tbird also
  243. bear people downloaded it expecting to get an email address
  244. simon that still doesn't mean they need to get one from Mozilla.
  245. bear true
  246. bear they also thought to host sync offsite - until they realized none existed that had the privacy policy that was likeable to moz
  247. bear so they had to create sync servers
  248. bear the issue with xmpp is that once it is part of the browser then they need xmpp servers that can handle 40 million users
  249. Florian bear: they should drop us a line :)
  250. bear "us" being flosoft?
  251. simon it's called gtalk.
  252. dwd bear, Or else we need a protocol that allows distributed fedreated signup.
  253. Florian bear: yeah, sorry .. I'll stop self promoting :)
  254. bear florian - no - was just wanting to be clear - keep self promoting :)
  255. bear for a brief moment I thought you meant xsf
  256. bear can gtalk be used for non-gmail signups?
  257. dwd bear, No, not really.
  258. bear because the browserid would be their xmpp jid - for it to really be federated
  259. dwd bear, But in any case, sign-up is a technical problem.
  260. bear agreed
  261. dwd So back to where I was before my DSL dropped, I'm wondering if there's likely to be someone we could throw a bounty to, to get the tech demo written.
  262. dwd I think it's an area where, if XMPP got a foothold, we'd massively increase XMPP deployment and use, and that seems somethign worth spending actual cash on.
  263. bear agreed
  264. bear we would need an xmpp server that groks the server side browserid implementation
  265. Florian agreed
  266. Zash Yay world domination!
  267. dwd bear, Yeah, we need a protocol too, or at least a strawman for one.
  268. Zash dwd: Write down what you described at the summit?
  269. dwd Zash, Yeah, although my solution had an XMPP address for the website. But yeah, we could do something here.
  270. bear can we continue on list for this - I need to run
  271. dwd bear, Yeah - assuming we're happy in principle to spend some cash here, let's raise it on the members list?
  272. Florian I can send a quick summary of where we're at with BrowserID to the list
  273. Florian list, being board first?
  274. bear I think if we can get a small focused project idea - yes
  275. Florian and we can decide what we can do?
  276. bear or even an incremental list of tech demos
  277. Florian XMPP as ID for everyone in the world ... I'd be more than happy to spend money on that
  278. Ashley since i was late, we're describing something for GSOC or just more general purpose?
  279. dwd Florian, That has been duly noted.
  280. dwd Ashley, General purpose, in this case.
  281. Ashley ok, cool & interesting!
  282. dwd Right - Next meeting - was this time OK for everyone?
  283. simon has left
  284. Florian I like this time
  285. bear this time was very good
  286. Ashley yes, was good for me, but did it ever get added to the ical?
  287. dwd Then this time next week, OK?
  288. simon has joined
  289. dwd Ashley, Erm. Possibly not.
  290. Kev Was this meeting arranged on the members list? It's possible I missed it, but I didn't see it announced.
  291. Ashley i think it was on the board list
  292. Florian yeah, I think board only
  293. dwd Kev, No, this is also true - I arranged it on the board list.
  294. Kev I vaguely remember a discussion about the members list being used by Board for everything that didn't need to be out of camera.
  295. bear are we moving to fridays then?
  296. Florian but yeah, let's push it to Members list
  297. Florian bear, I'd +1 that
  298. bear +1 for fridays also
  299. Florian not that it matters to me ... everyday is sunday :)
  300. dwd bear, Seems that way, unless there's objections.
  301. bear my wed is just way to busy lately
  302. cchris434 I am good with that
  303. Ashley +1 on fridays for me
  304. dwd OK, so same time next week, I'll announce it on members and do the ical thing.
  305. Florian Friday 1530 UTC it is :)
  306. bear +1
  307. Ashley great, thx!
  308. simon If anyone is interested in how bc is planning on doing a distributed sign-up this is the current plan: http://postimage.org/image/6shnsv2k1/
  309. Ashley tho, next friday i'll be traveling and may not be able to make it
  310. dwd I think we're done - anyone anything further?
  311. cchris434 I am good, thank you
  312. Florian +1 for ending this :)
  313. Kev Not from the peanut gallery.
  314. bear +1 for adjourn
  315. dwd See you all on the list, then. :-)
  316. bear thanks all
  317. cchris434 ciao
  318. cchris434 has left
  319. Florian great meeting guys! thanks all!
  320. bear simon - davida says he can meet later in week
  321. simon Awesome! I'll shoot him an email.
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