Friday, May 04, 2012
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[03:50:40] *** Jef shows as "online" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
We could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away"

[04:07:15] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
We could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"

[04:11:43] *** Jef shows as "online" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
We could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away"

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[11:03:04] *** Jef shows as "online" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away"

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[15:30:32] <Florian> T-2m
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[15:35:38] <MattJ> I just have to tell you that I reconnected just then
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[15:36:08] <MattJ> 198 is so good, but it needs a big announcement every time someone reconnects, to show how well it works
[15:37:54] <Zash> T+5m ?
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[15:39:52] <dwd> Sorry, my fault, entirely distracted.
[15:40:20] <dwd> So we have 4/5 board members. Excellent. Hi guys.
[15:40:26] *bear waves
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[15:40:51] <dwd> First off - GSoC - bear/Florian - I think you were going to have a chat about getting Stuff to Students?
[15:41:14] <bear> yes, I have 2 of 7 addresses - I need to switch to grumpy bear mode to get more addresses
[15:41:23] <bear> and then we figure out who can ship to where when
[15:41:31] <dwd> bear, Postal addresses, you mean?
[15:41:34] <bear> yes
[15:41:52] <dwd> bear, OK. And you and Florian and Kev are happy with what to send them?
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[15:42:12] <bear> I believe it's the same book list as before plus tshirts
[15:42:20] *bear makes a note to confirm that via list
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[15:42:26] <dwd> We have some t-shirts to send them?
[15:42:44] *bear adds that Q to the list
[15:42:44] <dwd> (I mean, aside from the ones locked in the depths of Cisco Diegem)
[15:43:37] <bear> I think it's the cisco shirts, was not aware that they are a physical challenge level 3 to retrieve
[15:43:52] <dwd> So, as a proposal, why don't we get the books shipped as we get the addresses, and then we can sort out t-shirts later? The shipping will be different in each case anyway.
[15:44:09] <bear> sounds like a plan
[15:44:42] <dwd> bear, You need a +4 Access Card Of Cisco to get at the t-shirts. ANd they'll all need shipping from Diegem anyway.
[15:44:57] <bear> then definitely handle later
[15:45:08] <dwd> OK.
[15:45:25] <dwd> Florian, Ashley - Happy with ship-as-we-go for books?
[15:45:28] <bear> I would like to get some shipped to US for oscon - so that could be discussed soon
[15:45:51] <Ashley> +1 seems like the most reasonable approach
[15:46:21] <bear> k, action item for next board meeting: report on shipped and to be shipped books
[15:47:09] <dwd> Righty. ANything else for GSoC?
[15:47:21] <Florian> +1
[15:47:46] <dwd> I'll take that as a no.
[15:47:58] <bear> gsoc is in an odd period - a lot will happen after the first deadline approaches
[15:48:09] <bear> right now it's "oh my, I got accepted"
[15:48:31] <dwd> So... SHall we move onto XSF sponsoring development of Crazy BrowserID-onna-XMPP Thing?
[15:48:38] <bear> +1
[15:48:44] <Florian> +1!
[15:49:00] <dwd> Florian, Is that all you're going to say this meeting? :-)
[15:49:06] <Florian> -1
[15:49:07] <Florian> :p
[15:49:35] <Ashley> sure sounds good
[15:49:44] <Florian> so, I think there's enough interest from the membership to support us doing this?
[15:50:01] <Ashley> is this the wrong venue/time to ask about scalability of said concept?
[15:50:03] <dwd> So, the - very vague - proposal is that we - the XSF - spend Actual Money™ to push for a demonstratble implementation of BrowserID using XMPP.
[15:50:16] <MattJ> Ashley, from a technical perspective?
[15:50:23] <Ashley> yeah
[15:50:23] <Florian> dwd: correct
[15:50:41] <Ashley> i'm in favor of spending Actual Money to support this
[15:51:12] <Ashley> just curious about server infrastructure that could support 100M+ users
[15:51:22] <Florian> Ashley: federation :)
[15:51:31] <Florian> and Flosoft servers :D
[15:51:33] <MattJ> aka. XMPP :)
[15:52:01] <Ashley> yeah yeah :)
[15:52:02] <bear> dwd - my concern is getting the process in place so we can see projects that want/need money and have a selection process
[15:52:14] <bear> things go really squirrly when money is involved
[15:52:20] <MattJ> +1
[15:52:20] <Florian> I'd say we should define a "pot" of money
[15:52:29] <bear> bounty style then?
[15:52:33] <Florian> and ask for RFPs for an amount between X and Y
[15:52:37] <dwd> bear, Right. My concern is that we also need to spec out the project, and divide it into sane chunks we can stick bounties on.
[15:52:39] <bear> then we need levels and criteria for acceptance
[15:53:21] <bear> we should plan a face-to-face hack session to work that out
[15:53:25] <bear> IMO
[15:54:39] *bear listens to the sound of everyone rushing for the door
[15:54:45] <dwd> Is there anyone present who feels they could write out the specification?
[15:55:09] <waqas> Could we get some pointers to the existing BrowserID spec and code?
[15:55:13] <dwd> That is, write out the RFP-level spec, not the standard required (which is a whole different thing).
[15:55:24] <Zash> waqas: It's on github
[15:55:30] <MattJ> dwd, I'd volunteer, but something makes me think someone else might be better for the task right now ;)
[15:55:33] <Zash> https://github.com/mozilla/browserid/
[15:55:40] <bear> waqas - that info is available on github and I can introduce anyone to the moz people
[15:55:49] <dwd> Hmmm. Actually, slightly different question. Who here is interested in actively managing the project?
[15:55:50] <Florian> dwd: ah, I'd be happy to do that, but I'd appreciate some pointers from more technical people
[15:56:11] <Florian> why not just have a Wiki page to draft something like that?
[15:57:14] <Florian> for the management of the project ... I'm free from the 16th onwards
[15:57:18] <MattJ> Seems sensible, we do other stuff that way
[15:57:30] <dwd> OK, so we'll kick things off that way.
[15:57:35] <Ashley> Florian, dwd, i'm happy to try to help, tho i've never written an rfp before
[15:58:03] <Florian> great :)
[15:58:10] <bear> let's start the wiki page then, list some early milestones and just start iterating
[15:58:17] <Ashley> i've been on the receiving end of them, of course :)
[15:58:26] <Florian> bear: sounds good
[15:58:30] <bear> we can meet often to find out if the wiki has become ready to merge to an RFP
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[15:58:46] <Ashley> at a high level, are we trying to get members of Mozilla or XMPP community to "bid" then?
[15:59:02] <Florian> I'd say XMPP first
[15:59:05] <bear> I would love it to be XMPP first
[15:59:06] <Florian> as we want to push XMPP adoption
[15:59:17] <bear> but that is easily solved for anyone - they can join
[15:59:21] <Florian> but if we write our RFP intelligently, it will require XMPP
[15:59:29] <Florian> and then if Mozilla codes stuff, even better
[15:59:34] <Ashley> k, timeline is probably an important consideration, when would we want responses
[15:59:39] <bear> we need to use xmpp as the implementation example
[15:59:44] <Florian> and yeah, XSF Membership can be a tie breaker
[16:00:12] <Florian> should we say we want an RFP ready by end of may?
[16:00:13] <bear> mozilla is already writing xmpp based js
[16:00:36] <dwd> Florian, At the latest, I'd have thought.
[16:00:48] <bear> end of may means we need milestones and an outline by middle of next week
[16:00:54] <dwd> Florian, What do you think the chances of getting some additional cash pledged from industry is?
[16:01:15] <bear> if we have a sane outline and plans, I can push hard for moz to help with this
[16:01:17] <Florian> dwd: good question ... I can go out and investigate
[16:01:32] <Florian> bear: Mozilla has cash :)
[16:01:35] <bear> but without a plan, i'm tilting at windmills
[16:01:37] <dwd> Florian, I think that's a task made for you.
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[16:02:03] <dwd> MattJ, Can you contribute technically to the RFP/Plan?
[16:02:05] <Florian> yeah, once we have an RFP draft, and some goals set for this "project", we can go out and get some munies
[16:02:09] <MattJ> dwd, sure
[16:02:37] <bear> sounds like we have enough folk to iterate on the wiki already present
[16:02:57] *** Ashley shows as "online"
[16:03:24] <Florian> http://wiki.xmpp.org/web/BID-RFP
[16:04:41] <dwd> OK. SO I guess we want that close to complete by end of next week?
[16:04:54] <Florian> ok
[16:05:17] <Ashley> ok
[16:05:17] <Florian> should we maybe schedule a MUC cramming session sometime this weekend / monday (bank holiday here)
[16:05:43] <Florian> at least I think it's a bank holiday here :/
[16:06:01] <Florian> Early May Bank Holiday
[16:06:02] <bear> these other details should go to the list
[16:06:10] <Florian> yeah
[16:06:13] <Ashley> i might be able to do about this same time tomorrow
[16:06:42] <Florian> personally I'd prefer it to be sunday or monday, so that people have some time to notice the mail on the list
[16:06:44] <bear> yea, I have a colo move downtime for tomorrow - i'll be at the computer :/
[16:07:09] <bear> but yea, put it out on the list - it's a wiki, work can be 24x7
[16:07:16] <Florian> true
[16:07:44] <Florian> so tomorrow, same time .. a MUC session for people who are interested in talking BrowserID RFP
[16:07:58] <dwd> Yes, a further MUC bashing session sounds sensible. We should also probably announce the intent to proceed on this wider than just the members list.
[16:08:27] <Florian> yeah, jadmin + jdev?
[16:08:36] <dwd> Possibly standards@ as well.
[16:08:43] <Florian> and maybe poke some people at Mozilla ?
[16:08:46] <dwd> Maybe the blog?
[16:08:46] <Florian> yeah, standards as well
[16:08:52] <Florian> sure, I can write a blog post
[16:09:44] <bear> write the blog - I can point to that on the internal moz sites
[16:09:57] <Florian> awesome.
[16:10:48] <Florian> and once we have an RFP, the Board can decide on what pot of money we want to open up
[16:10:56] <Florian> and then accept ideas
[16:11:08] <dwd> Yeah - anyone any views of how much we should be /need to be spending?
[16:11:20] <MattJ> I'd say we should spec it out first
[16:11:24] <Florian> yeah
[16:11:25] <MattJ> and decide money after :)
[16:12:08] <dwd> OK, I'm fine with that.
[16:12:08] <Florian> the way I've run some competitions here with money was that once the ideas are in, they have a request for X amount
[16:12:20] <dwd> Primarily because it suggests we've reached the end of this discussion, for now.
[16:12:25] <Florian> and depending on that, we either fund it in full or get back to them and offer them something else
[16:12:25] <bear> :)
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[16:13:00] <Florian> yeah, I think we're good for now
[16:13:16] <dwd> OK. SO MUC session tomorrow?
[16:13:24] <Florian> yup, it's in my calendar
[16:13:28] <Florian> same place, same time
[16:13:57] <MattJ> wfm
[16:14:23] <bear> we are just over the 30 minute mark - good time to adjourn?
[16:14:29] <Florian> +1
[16:14:51] <dwd> Yup, let's adjourn.
[16:14:57] <dwd> Thanks everybody.
[16:15:00] <bear> thanks all
[16:15:03] <Florian> cheers all ... I'm off to the pub
[16:15:04] <MattJ> Thanks
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[16:15:26] <Ashley> k, ttfn
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[16:22:21] <Ashley> dwd, any chance we can do 30 mins earlier tomorrow? realized i have to shuttle kids to soccer game.
[16:22:40] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[16:23:47] <dwd> Ashley, I'm free all weekend (wife and daughter off for the weekend, and son off on camp too!), so I'm easy.
[16:24:33] <Ashley> k, i see Florian dropped, will see if i can snag him
[16:25:21] <Ashley> hmm, i don't have him on my roster, what's his IM?
[16:30:07] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:30:37] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:30:59] *** luca tagliaferri has left the room
[16:31:27] *** Ashley shows as "online"
[16:37:55] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[16:40:07] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[16:45:51] *** Ashley shows as "online"
[16:47:46] *** Ashley has left the room
[16:48:33] *** Ashley has joined the room
[16:51:05] *** Ashley shows as "online"
[16:51:16] *** Ashley has left the room
[16:54:05] *** MattJ shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[16:58:47] *** Ashley has joined the room
[17:04:05] *** MattJ shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[17:04:05] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:07:33] *** Jef has joined the room
[17:09:43] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[17:10:09] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:21:36] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[17:21:46] *** Ashley has left the room
[17:22:46] *** stpeter shows as "away" and his status message is "wandered off..."
[17:24:36] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"

[17:25:04] *** Jef shows as "online" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away"

[17:27:57] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[17:31:16] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"

[17:38:50] *** Jef shows as "online" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away"

[17:42:46] *** stpeter shows as "xa" and his status message is "wandered off..."
[17:43:25] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[17:47:27] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"

[17:47:45] *** Jef shows as "online" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away"

[17:53:49] *** Tobias has joined the room
[17:53:51] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[17:56:05] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[18:02:20] *** Kooda shows as "away"
[18:16:39] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"

[18:19:31] *** Jef shows as "online" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away"

[18:26:36] *** dwd shows as "online"
[18:28:10] *** Jef shows as "away" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"

[18:29:34] *** Jef shows as "online" and his status message is "Give me some rope
Tie me to dream
Give me the hope
To run out of steam
Somebody said
It could be here
I could be roped up, tied up
Dead in a year
I can't count the reasons I should stay
One by one they all just fade away"

[18:33:20] *** Jef has left the room
[18:33:55] *** stpeter shows as "online"
[18:38:09] *** waqas has left the room
[18:46:47] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[18:56:47] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[19:01:29] *** MiGri shows as "online" and his status message is "This conversation may be monitored for quality assurance or security purposes. ;)"
[19:01:49] *** Tobias has left the room
[19:10:31] *** dwd shows as "online"
[19:16:02] *** MiGri shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not at the computer but I'll read the messages as soon as I'll be back."
[19:21:36] *** Ashley has joined the room
[19:21:59] *** Ashley shows as "online"
[19:23:39] *** Ashley shows as "online"
[19:23:55] *** Ashley has left the room
[19:38:31] *** Changaco has joined the room
[19:44:37] *** MiGri shows as "online" and his status message is "This conversation may be monitored for quality assurance or security purposes. ;)"
[19:52:57] *** MiGri shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not at the computer but I'll read the messages as soon as I'll be back."
[20:06:04] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[20:16:03] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[20:46:41] *** MiGri shows as "online" and his status message is "This conversation may be monitored for quality assurance or security purposes. ;)"
[20:53:09] *** Jef has joined the room
[21:00:08] *** MiGri shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not at the computer but I'll read the messages as soon as I'll be back."
[21:03:13] *** MiGri shows as "online" and his status message is "This conversation may be monitored for quality assurance or security purposes. ;)"
[21:09:28] *** Zash shows as "dnd" and his status message is "Film"
[21:11:57] *** MiGri shows as "away" and his status message is "I'm not at the computer but I'll read the messages as soon as I'll be back."
[21:14:06] *** dwd shows as "online"
[21:28:58] *** stpeter has left the room
[21:43:29] *** MiGri shows as "online" and his status message is "This conversation may be monitored for quality assurance or security purposes. ;)"
[21:43:29] *** MiGri shows as "xa" and his status message is "Screen detached. I'll read the messages as soon as I'll be back."
[21:44:40] *** Kooda shows as "online"
[21:46:48] *** Ashley has joined the room
[21:47:39] *** Neustradamus has joined the room
[21:47:43] *** Neustradamus has left the room
[21:55:12] *** Ashley shows as "online"
[21:55:12] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:12:56] *** dwd shows as "away" and his status message is " (Away as a result of being idle more than 5 min)"
[22:19:25] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:19:28] *** Ashley shows as "online"
[22:22:56] *** dwd shows as "xa" and his status message is " (Not available as a result of being idle more than 15 min)"
[22:37:24] *** Jef has left the room
[22:58:39] *** Zash shows as "online"
[23:04:24] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:04:24] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:11:46] *** Kev has joined the room
[23:11:47] *** Kev shows as "online"
[23:21:19] *** Changaco shows as "xa" and his status message is "ZZZZzzzzzZZZZZ"
[23:31:38] *** Ashley shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[23:31:41] *** Ashley shows as "online"
[23:33:13] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:40:13] *** Ashley has left the room
[23:46:22] *** Zash has left the room