Wednesday, November 06, 2013
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[16:22:53] <bear> hello folks - power was out at the house, did I miss anything?
[16:23:10] <bear> ah, council is still meeting, then i'm actually early
[16:23:32] <ralphm> T-10min
[16:23:44] <bear> cool
[16:30:41] <bear> I don't see dave, laura or simon yet
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[16:33:32] <ralphm> I invited dwd, but not seeing him yet
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[16:36:30] <bear> we can wait a bit, the council meeting just ended
[16:36:57] <bear> (yes, i know that fact has nothing to do with the question of where are the others)
[16:37:14] <ralphm> :-D
[16:38:21] <Lloyd> Hi all, laura.gill@surevine.com sends her apologies, she's stuck in a meeting she can't get out of right now.
[16:38:27] <Kev> Did this go out to members, BTW? (In which case I missed it and I suck)
[16:38:48] <ralphm> Lloyd: good first impressions :-P
[16:40:19] <ralphm> Kev: from my cursory look, we didn't announce the board meeting on the members list
[16:40:20] <bear> kev - I *thought* I sent it out to members list, but it could be I also suck
[16:40:23] <Lloyd> I'm not sure she was aware, I hadn't seen any notice go out - although I'm not aware of how council alerts go out.
[16:40:37] <Kev> Lloyd: Or Board, which this is.
[16:40:42] <bear> I sent emails to each board member and also to board@
[16:40:46] <Lloyd> Yeah that too :S
[16:40:55] <ralphm> bear: yeah, board members should know about the meeting
[16:41:21] <bear> we only have 2 out of 5 with apologies for 1 so far
[16:41:42] <Edwin Mons> How would we know when to flee out of the room if the meeting isn't announced to members?
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[16:42:41] <ralphm> Edwin Mons: I assume because the Chairman will bang the gavel.
[16:44:04] <Edwin Mons> You need to elect one first ;)
[16:44:10] <bear> i'll give them 5 more minutes
[16:44:33] <Kev> Edwin Mons: I think in the members meeting there was some discussion, and no-one disagreed that old chairs remained chair until new chairs were elected.
[16:44:37] <ralphm> Edwin Mons: no, bear is still chair, even if he hadn't been elected
[16:44:42] <Kev> Which makes sense, as otherwise there's no-one to run the first meeting.
[16:44:58] <bear> until the new board meets and accepts the results IIRC
[16:44:59] <Kev> Assuming, that is, that there /is/ a first quorate meeting.
[16:45:10] <bear> that is the crux of our current situation
[16:46:07] <Edwin Mons> Kev: good point
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[16:46:43] <Edwin Mons> I assume you need 50% for quorum?
[16:46:57] <ralphm> FWIW, the XMPP calendar doesn't reflect the date for this meeting.
[16:47:32] <Kev> Edwin Mons: Whether it's 50% or majority is largely irrelevant with odd numbers, and I forget which it is.
[16:47:55] <bear> I don't have the bylaws memorized, but it's 3 out of 5
[16:48:08] <bear> which satisfies 50% 60% and simple majority
[16:48:38] <ralphm> by laws say 'majority'
[16:48:59] <bear> ralphm - i'm getting calendar alerts for today's meeting, so it's on one of the calendars
[16:49:34] <bear> it's all bike shedding to be blunt as they are not present
[16:49:46] <ralphm> bear: interesting
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[16:50:14] <bear> so I will send an email to members@, board@ and them directly to suggest a meeting friday, or anytime next week
[16:50:41] <bear> I will be lurking here for another 15 or so minutes in case one of them shows up
[16:51:00] <ralphm> bear: I was just looking at the ics files for -board and -all, no mention.
[16:51:29] <bear> then i'm being haunted by the ghost of the last board I guess
[16:51:30] <stpeter> we definitely need better calendar management and notifications
[16:51:40] <ralphm> I could do friday, probably, but I'd rather not change the date and time
[16:51:59] <stpeter> there's always next Wednesday
[16:52:03] <ralphm> right
[16:52:07] <stpeter> (although I'll be on a plane then)
[16:52:20] <ralphm> in-flight wifi?
[16:52:25] <ralphm> :-D
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[16:52:31] <bear> the first meeting is normally restricted to 1) accepting results and 2) electing chair
[16:52:39] <bear> so it will be a fast one
[16:53:36] *bear goes to write that email
[16:53:43] <ralphm> bear: yeah, let's put out an e-mail with a proposed agenda. It might also be useful to have a chat on the Board's priorities for this term.
[16:54:01] <Kev> And can this happen on members@, please?
[16:54:10] <Edwin Mons> +1
[16:54:20] <ralphm> Kev: sure
[16:54:31] <Kev> Thank you
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[16:57:42] <ralphm> woah
[16:57:45] <ralphm> quorum
[16:57:47] <Simon> sorry everyone - wasn't aware that a date had been set.
[16:57:49] <Simon> :)
[16:57:51] <bear> email sent
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[16:58:35] <ralphm> bear sent out an e-mail on 2013-10-30 13:39 -0400 on this
[16:58:42] <bear> oh sure, I just press the "send" button and *now* we get a quorum :)
[16:58:48] <Lloyd> :)
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[16:59:01] <ralphm> don't leave!
[16:59:04] <Kev> I think the meeting was effectively abandoned long ago.
[16:59:18] <ralphm> Kev: who are you to judge that :-P
[16:59:34] <Kev> ralphm: I'm the only person who can judge it.
[16:59:48] <ralphm> haha
[17:00:00] <bear> simon - I just sent out an email with details for the next meeting
[17:00:12] <Simon> is the calendar feed still being updated / who maintains it? Could we add a board meeting event in there?
[17:00:20] <Kev> Yeah, I'm waiting for that one to come through - is my mail being slow, or did it not go to members? :)
[17:00:26] <ralphm> Simon: this was a thing we discussed earlier, yes
[17:00:37] <Edwin Mons> Kev: I just received it.
[17:00:42] <Kev> Marvellous.
[17:00:55] <Simon> great. What's the usual frequency of board meetings?
[17:01:27] <bear> if we have things to do, bi-weekly, but not very often
[17:01:33] <Kev> I'd suggest you adopt Council+20, personally.
[17:01:35] <ralphm> bi-weekly
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[17:01:50] <Simon> you mean fortnightly ;)
[17:01:50] <ralphm> Kev: I'd like that, indeed
[17:01:50] <Kev> Because I think having regular meetings creates some sort of impetus to do stuff.
[17:01:52] <bear> tradition has it that they are just after the council meeting and that the time is limited to 30 minutes to help focus people
[17:02:26] <Simon> +1 for regular set time and repeats.
[17:03:00] <bear> so unless one of the new board folk has a real problem with our current schedule, it probably won't change
[17:03:29] <ralphm> I'd like to have it occur on the calendar every week.
[17:03:49] <ralphm> Because it makes it easier for people to make it a habit of showing up.
[17:03:50] <bear> once we decide next week, it will be
[17:04:17] <Simon> yes - same day and time every two weeks. Much easier!
[17:04:25] <bear> simon, ralph - please do respond to the email with your +1 or whatever about the current timing
[17:04:35] <bear> that will make the first meeting even faster
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[17:11:24] <bear> ralph - your question about discussing the board's priorities is kinda easy
[17:11:41] <bear> the board can only respond,work,deal with items that the members want to do
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[17:11:43] <Kev> Interesting. I've received Ralph's reply to Bear's mail, but not Bear's mail.
[17:12:03] <ralphm> Kev: maybe be spam because it was signed by a bear
[17:12:07] <Kev> I don't /think/ I've set up any special MTA rules to blackhole bear :)
[17:12:11] <bear> :)
[17:12:32] <Kev> bear: I think that's a bit of a cop-out answer, sorry. People don't have to /want/ to do stuff to get stuff done. What needs doing is the important question.
[17:13:09] <ralphm> bear: While I agree on that on a strict basis, any board can develop a policy that it subjects to its membership
[17:13:54] <bear> it's a small difference in what you both are saying and me - the difference being that this policy discussion should just be amongst members
[17:14:04] <Kev> Yeah, I think that's a cop-out.
[17:14:21] <bear> ok
[17:14:24] <Kev> I think Board need to work out what needs to be done, and plans to do it.
[17:14:41] <ralphm> bear: I agree, but again believe that a Board can spearhead any such discussion.
[17:14:42] <Kev> Yes, they should not act against members' wishes, but the point of the Board is to provide steering.
[17:15:05] <ralphm> suggest things and then discuss it with the membership
[17:15:09] <Kev> ^ this
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[17:15:32] <bear> then i'll be happy to be wrong :)
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[17:15:43] <bear> but even "wrong" isn't the proper word
[17:15:54] <bear> i'll be happy to be busily dealing with an active board
[17:16:00] <Kev> Oh, I think it's the perfect word for anyone with a different opinion to mine :D
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[17:16:48] <ralphm> Proactive is my word of choice here.
[17:17:09] <ralphm> And with that, I'm proactively going to have dinner.
[17:17:12] <bear> :)
[17:17:14] <Kev> Heh.
[17:17:53] <stpeter> BTW I am paying attention to the IETF technical plenary
[17:18:08] <Edwin Mons> ralphm: enjoy
[17:18:14] <stpeter> http://ietf88streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf889.m3u in case you want to listen (not sure if the video is working at http://www.ietf.org/live/ )
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[17:18:28] <ralphm> video works for me
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[17:18:31] <stpeter> the topic is pervasive surveillance
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[17:19:06] <stpeter> BTW the manifesto went over well when I talked about it on Monday, although of course this is the IETF so some people had objections
[17:19:36] <bear> video is not working for me but audio is
[17:19:45] <Simon> as long as we don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good
[17:20:46] <Kev> stpeter: I think knowing what the objections are would be interesting.
[17:20:59] <stpeter> "flag days are bad" was one of them
[17:21:16] <stpeter> "you'll fail" was another
[17:21:36] <Simon> I wonder who works in the Crazy-Code-Names department at the NSA?
[17:21:47] *bear is happy now, video is working
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[17:21:57] <Simon> Who is speaking?
[17:22:04] <stpeter> Bruce Schneier
[17:22:14] <Simon> Wow. Nice.
[17:22:21] <bear> hmm, text is very timely, audio is lagged by about a minute but wow, video is lagged by about 2 minutes
[17:22:25] <fippo> http://vancouver.conf.meetecho.com/WebLite/event.jsp?w=plenary might provide an alternative if youtube doesn't work
[17:22:33] <Edwin Mons> video is fine here.
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[19:22:57] <stpeter> ok, I said my piece
[19:25:03] <ralphm> stpeter: was good!
[19:26:23] *bear cheers
[19:30:45] <stpeter> bbl
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[20:25:19] *** Edwin Mons has left the room
[20:27:19] *** Edwin Mons has joined the room
[20:37:52] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[20:40:06] *** MattJ shows as "away"
[20:40:10] *** MattJ shows as "online"
[20:42:04] *** ralphm shows as "away" and his status message is "Away as a result of being idle"
[20:43:40] *** ralphm shows as "online"
[20:54:26] *** stpeter has joined the room
[21:00:36] *** SouL shows as "online"
[21:04:35] *** Alex shows as "away" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[21:15:41] *** SouL has left the room
[21:19:30] *** Lance has joined the room
[21:19:31] *** Lance shows as "online"
[21:22:04] *** SouL has joined the room
[21:24:35] *** Alex shows as "xa" and his status message is "Auto-Status (untätig)"
[21:25:17] *** SouL has left the room
[21:36:10] *** Edwin Mons has left the room
[21:36:10] *** Edwin Mons has joined the room
[21:44:53] *** Kev shows as "online"
[21:45:16] *** Ashley Ward has joined the room
[21:58:38] *** Lance has left the room
[21:58:46] *** Lance has joined the room
[21:58:47] *** Lance shows as "online"
[22:13:38] *** Ashley Ward has left the room
[22:17:48] *** Tobias has joined the room
[22:17:53] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[22:19:07] *** ralphm has left the room
[22:19:33] *** Edwin Mons shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:21:32] *** Kev shows as "away"
[22:22:32] *** Kev shows as "online"
[22:30:32] *** Edwin Mons shows as "away" and his status message is "Away"
[22:41:00] *** Alex shows as "online"
[22:43:34] *** Alex has left the room
[22:48:24] *** Tobias has joined the room
[22:48:30] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[23:02:00] *** Kev shows as "away"
[23:03:28] *** Neustradamus shows as "away"
[23:32:32] *** stpeter has left the room
[23:35:55] *** Tobias shows as "away" and his status message is "Available"
[23:36:02] *** Tobias shows as "online" and his status message is "Available"
[23:58:38] *** stpeter has joined the room