XSF Discussion - 2013-11-13


  1. Lance has joined
  2. tato has joined
  3. stpeter has joined
  4. Simon has left
  5. tato has left
  6. Jef has joined
  7. tato has joined
  8. Jef has left
  9. Jef has joined
  10. Jef has left
  11. stpeter has left
  12. Lance has joined
  13. Alex has joined
  14. Simon has joined
  15. fippo alex: any reason membership voting hasn't started yet?
  16. fippo i'm somewhat worried that florian hasn't reapplied...
  17. Alex its delayed becasue of the Wiki problems we had. I have contacted the members which have not reapplied yet, so hopefully we can start voting soon.
  18. fippo ah, ok. thanks
  19. fippo https://blog.andyet.com/2013/11/12/why-wont-we-put-on-another-realtimeconf -- those &yets are manipulating the xmpp community
  20. fippo likes being manipulated in that way
  21. fippo it would have probably been easier to just send pie
  22. Alex has left
  23. Simon I'm presuming the next board meeting is next week? Who can update the calendar?
  24. Simon Is this the right link: http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-all.ics ?
  25. fippo isn't it today?
  26. fippo i know there is no council today...
  27. Simon I would like to meet next Wednesday, 13 November 2013 at 1630 UTC (which is 1130 EST, 0930 MST, 0830 PST)
  28. Simon yep
  29. Kev has left
  30. Ashley Ward has joined
  31. Edwin Mons has joined
  32. Lloyd has joined
  33. ralphm has left
  34. Edwin Mons has left
  35. Edwin Mons has joined
  36. Simon has left
  37. Simon has joined
  38. Kev has joined
  39. Edwin Mons has left
  40. Edwin Mons has joined
  41. Simon has left
  42. Simon has joined
  43. Simon has left
  44. Simon has joined
  45. Alex has joined
  46. Edwin Mons has left
  47. Simon has left
  48. Simon has joined
  49. Lance has joined
  50. Simon has left
  51. SouL has joined
  52. Simon has joined
  53. Edwin Mons has joined
  54. Simon has left
  55. Simon has joined
  56. SouL has left
  57. SouL has joined
  58. Simon has left
  59. Simon has joined
  60. tato has joined
  61. tato has left
  62. SouL has left
  63. tato has joined
  64. SouL has joined
  65. dwd has joined
  66. SouL has left
  67. SouL has joined
  68. SouL has left
  69. Edwin Mons has left
  70. Edwin Mons has joined
  71. SouL has joined
  72. SouL has left
  73. SouL has joined
  74. tato has left
  75. SouL has left
  76. SouL has joined
  77. Simon has left
  78. Simon has joined
  79. SouL has left
  80. SouL has joined
  81. Laura has joined
  82. Laura Just checking following messages above, is the Board meeting today or next week?
  83. Simon today
  84. Laura Thank you
  85. dwd Both, possibly. :-)
  86. Simon Who is running the meeting today?
  87. Laura I was just about to ask the same thing, and is it happening here?
  88. ralphm Well, usually it would be bear
  89. ralphm Since he is our Chair.
  90. Simon Can someone else run it - I think we have a basic agenda
  91. Simon 1. accept the results of the yearly meeting 2. nominate and elect the board chairperson 3. decide on the next meeting
  92. dwd Without knowing if Mike is standing, I don't think we can do much.
  93. Laura As this is my first ever meeting, I am going to suggest I am not the best person to chair today
  94. Simon heh - Laura - I wanted to chat with you afterwards since Bear and Peter and myself have been starting to work on the text for a new revamped XMPP website and it would be good to have your input too.
  95. Laura Sounds interesting
  96. Simon although I'm unable to send you messages right now.
  97. Simon laura.gill@surevine.com ?
  98. Simon in XMPP land?
  99. Laura That's me
  100. dwd Right - in the absence of Mike, I think we can probably manage items (1) and (3) at least, and also accept nominations for Chair even if we can't realistically elect one.
  101. dwd So to get the rubber-stamp item out of the way first, do we accept the results of the Annual General Meeting of the XMPP Standards Foundation?
  102. Simon +1 to accept results. And propose that we hold the next meeting in a week if we can't do a proper one today.
  103. dwd Simon, One thing at a time. :-P
  104. Simon is multi-threading.
  105. ralphm 0. Open the meeting. dwd is chairing this meeting. :-D
  106. dwd ralphm, Laura - are you both happy to accept the results (which I can dig out for you if you've not got the document to hand).
  107. ralphm +1
  108. Laura Don't feel able to accept the results of the Annual General meeting (as I haven't seen them) but this may not be needed by me?
  109. dwd ralphm, Ah, sorry. I've staged a coup for the duration of this meeting. ;-)
  110. ralphm dwd: that's fine
  111. dwd Laura, It's largely a formality. And you're able to abstain, it'll still carry.
  112. Laura Great
  113. Laura Would be interested to read them though (please)
  114. dwd One second.
  115. ralphm http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2013-10-29/
  116. Edwin Mons has left
  117. Edwin Mons has joined
  118. dwd ralphm, Thanks.
  119. Laura Thank you
  120. dwd FWIW, I vote to accept them.
  121. dwd Laura, Would you like a minute or two to read them, or are you still abstaining?
  122. Laura *reading now*
  123. Laura +1
  124. ralphm cheers
  125. dwd Thanks.
  126. dwd So, as I say, in the absence of Mike I'm hesitant to do (2), but if there are people who are keen to stand they can make themselves known.
  127. dwd I should point out for the "spectators" that there is, as far as I can tell, no requirement for the Chair to actually be a voting member of the Board.
  128. Laura Happy to agree to postpone that decision until the next meeting?
  129. dwd Though you might want to double-check that in the Bylaws. :-)
  130. ralphm Well, as it is, we can postpone this item as the current Chair is on the Board anyway.
  131. ralphm I motion we do so.
  132. dwd I'm happy to postpone. I'd rather know what Mike's intent is here before deciding what to do.
  133. ralphm indeed
  134. dwd Oh, wait, you motioned. I shall second, then.
  135. dwd loves the formal lingo. ;-)
  136. Simon motions to create some motion.
  137. Laura I concur.
  138. dwd OK.
  139. dwd So item (3), which is the next meeting.
  140. ralphm wait
  141. dwd Oh?
  142. ralphm or can we do additional things after that item
  143. ralphm ?
  144. dwd Oh, we should have an AOB at the end. COnsider that as (4).
  145. ralphm Cool
  146. dwd I also have AOB. Possibly the same AOB, actually.
  147. ralphm In that case. +1W
  148. dwd Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel?
  149. ralphm right
  150. ralphm I think we should keep this timeslot open every week
  151. dwd Yes, makes sense if it works for us. If it's awkward for Mike, though, we should move it.
  152. ralphm sure
  153. dwd Laura, Simon - this time/day work for you guys?
  154. Simon yeah - works for me.
  155. Laura Works for me.
  156. dwd OK.
  157. Laura Although, I would like us to consider a video meeting at some point, when there is bigger things to discuss than the next meeting
  158. Laura *opens another can of worms*
  159. dwd Yeah, we should consider some logistics for that. It'd be nice to have a Jingle meeting, but we need a protocol written...
  160. dwd So, ralphm - you had some AOB?
  161. dwd Was it FOSDEM? :-)
  162. ralphm Sure, I do these things all the time. Over Hangouts.
  163. ralphm dwd: it wasn't FOSDEM
  164. ralphm so go ahead
  165. Laura I also use hangouts
  166. dwd Ah, OK. No, you go first.
  167. Laura Sorry, fo ahead with AOB
  168. ralphm I'd like to discuss what we want to do this term.
  169. dwd Right. So just a small topic, then?
  170. ralphm In the discussions leading up to the Member's meeting, as well as during the XMPP Summit, many things have been suggested as things the XSF could, should or ought to do.
  171. Laura How does a conversation like that happen on here?
  172. ralphm Let's think about this some more and have that discussion in a (near) future meeting.
  173. ralphm Laura: by typing, I guess.
  174. dwd Actually declaring a meeting specifically for this purpose (say, the one after next) might make the most sense.
  175. dwd Since then interested members can also show up and suggest ideas.
  176. Laura Maybe that conversation (as bound to be more complex) could be a tester for video meeting?
  177. Simon I hear fippo is the video guy. :)
  178. ralphm We also briefly talked about this in last week's non-meeting, and there were some different opinions on what a/the board should do in general. Only react on what members request v.s. lead by proposing things.
  179. dwd I think that some of both is required - we should be proposing things, and pushing the membership - raising the bar, as it were.
  180. Simon We should examine the XMPP charter to see what it says we should do. Or?
  181. ralphm Although I do a lot of video conferences, I think it is not a great medium for discussion.
  182. Simon But we also all wrote manifestos and should see what kind of commonality there is there and work towards that.
  183. Laura I disagree. As I am part of a distributed company, this is how I work every day and its a great way to get meetings done and decisions made
  184. Simon IMHO it wouldn't hurt to jointly agree on what the XSF is here for and make sure our decisions work towards that end.
  185. dwd Laura, Yes, but it only works for open discussion in a relatively small group.
  186. dwd Simon, Yes - I'm tempted to suggest we should actually work on getting a mission statement for the XSF together.
  187. Simon dwd - yeah something like that.
  188. dwd Simon, Though I don't really like mission statements as a rule, I think in this case a single statement saying "This is what the XSF does" makes sense.
  189. ralphm Laura: also, I don't know about Surevine, but the XSF has members from many different countries, where English is not the native language. Typing makes things easier for some people.
  190. Laura I see.
  191. Laura I wondered if a video call for a discussion on bigger topics, with a blog summary post might be useful?
  192. dwd Laura, I'm all in favour of audio/video chats for focussed discussions within a smaller group, mind.
  193. fippo i'm working on the video stuff ;-)
  194. ralphm indeed, but if you want to give voice to the membership, I am inclined to say, just use a groupchat
  195. ralphm This has worked for this community since before its inception.
  196. dwd Right - aside from anything else, you get higher bandwidth with a text chat amongst that many people - nobody gets shut out of the conversation, they all can type at once.
  197. Laura As I said, it as just an idea. I just haven't been part of a meeting this way before so was just suggesting
  198. ralphm Laura: I shall have Lloyd train you then :-D
  199. fippo ralphm: that could be dangerous, he'll show the the jingle-capable xmpp-ftw ;-)
  200. ralphm fippo: there is a record of him taking suggestions from me. We'll see.
  201. ralphm ok, as there seems to be some consensus, I'm good with my AOB
  202. dwd So, as a concrete motion, shall we hold a meeting specifically on the topic of "What should the XSF do this year" in two weeks?
  203. Laura +1
  204. ralphm +1
  205. Simon +1. But could we not do it next week?
  206. Simon Either is fine for me though - just keen to get things rolling
  207. dwd Simon, We could; I figured we'd want to get some of the paperwork (like electing Chairs, and possibly confirming the contiuing appointments of Alex and Peter) out of the way.
  208. ralphm dwd: agreed
  209. dwd Plus if we're inviting the members, we probably want to give a bit more notice.
  210. SouL has left
  211. Lloyd has left
  212. ralphm dwd: that's actually in our by laws (section 3.4, 10 days)
  213. dwd OK. One more for the AOB - we need to start considering the XSFs activity in FOSDEM.
  214. Neustradamus has joined
  215. ralphm indeed
  216. ralphm There has been no confirmation of our booth, yet.
  217. Simon ok - so will someone update the calendar (or we move to a shared G calendar?)
  218. dwd ralphm, OK. Do you know when we'll find out?
  219. ralphm The date for this is 15 December
  220. SouL has joined
  221. dwd Simon, I'll get the calendar sorted.
  222. Simon Thanks DWD
  223. ralphm Which is pretty short notice.
  224. ralphm So I think we have to start plan for the Summit
  225. ralphm and then have the booth sorted out later
  226. dwd ralphm, Right - unfortunately the Summit is probably the one that'll take less time.
  227. ralphm Well, we could plan things under the assumption that we'll have the same arrangement as last year.
  228. dwd ralphm, Yeah, my concern is that if we look at buying in promo gear again, we can't commit until the 15th.
  229. ralphm As some of us have discussed at RealtimeWeek, we'd like to make it somewhat better organised as a minimum.
  230. dwd ralphm, But we can get quotes, do the designs, etc.
  231. ralphm dwd: true
  232. dwd ralphm, Two years ago, I think we formed a formal Work Team to arrange the FOSDEM/Summit stuff - mostly focuessed on FOSDEM.
  233. Simon I remember that - worked very well
  234. SouL has left
  235. dwd ralphm, That was the first year we managed the Realtime Lounge. We could spin that up again, if that'd help?
  236. SouL has joined
  237. dwd ralphm, I'm sort of assuming you'll be leading this, since you're normally our ambassador to FOSDEM as it were.
  238. ralphm Since our thing at FOSDEM has been called the Realtime Lounge for a few years, and discussed this with some people, we can get some help from the &yet guys regarding the branding and possibly more.
  239. ralphm dwd: sure
  240. ralphm One of the foremost issues are:
  241. dwd ralphm, Why don't you start assembling a team. We'll need to figure out what budget we can run to, but I'd hope we could recoup most of the cost by promo stuff as usual.
  242. Kev has left
  243. ralphm 1) Organizing demos
  244. ralphm 2) getting gear there
  245. Laura Suggestion: someone draft the tasks that need to be done, and at the next meeting let's assign them out?
  246. ralphm Laura: are you suggesting to make this a Board activity?
  247. Laura Is it not a Board activity? Or at least need Board input?
  248. dwd ralphm, Board-managed at least, I'd have thought.
  249. ralphm dwd: right
  250. dwd ralphm, Hopefully we can get several members to help, though.
  251. Laura I agree
  252. dwd ralphm, I'm hoping Florian will lend us a hand as usual, for a start.
  253. ralphm Laura: I guess this ties in with the level of involvement of the Board in general. But yeah, it would be great to have more of that in this case.
  254. ralphm dwd: indeed. Although he doesn't seem to have reapplied for membership
  255. dwd But anyway - let's consider returning next week and figure out what's needed, as Laura says.
  256. Neustradamus has joined
  257. ralphm I'd be happy to head this, though
  258. dwd ralphm, I'll threaten to out him to the Heathrow security staff if he doesn't help out. ;-)
  259. ralphm hah
  260. dwd ralphm, I'm happy to help in whatever way I can, of course.
  261. ralphm as for the Summit, we can draft a call b
  262. ralphm for participation
  263. Laura I might be able to track him down… he is often kicking around in the coffee shop in my building
  264. ralphm when he's not partying, I'm sure
  265. dwd Oh, I assumed your office was too up-market to let him in...
  266. ralphm *burn*
  267. Laura Like, I said, he hangs in the basement :)
  268. dwd OK - I'm good with this, unless anyone else has anythign to add?
  269. fippo btw @ florian... can someone specifically poke him to reapply for membership? :-)
  270. Laura Happy to wrap up there
  271. Laura I will take that action
  272. Laura I am seeing him in a few weeks anyway for the XMPP meetup I am hosting
  273. Laura Details about to be announced
  274. ralphm Laura: he needs to apply today, basically
  275. dwd Cool.
  276. Laura Ahh. Tweeting him now
  277. Edwin Mons Laura: when will this be?
  278. admin has joined
  279. Edwin Mons (the meetup)
  280. ralphm any other any other business?
  281. dwd I'm good. We can adjourn.
  282. Laura Edwin, will send you details but Monday 2nd Dec
  283. ralphm remarks the devil just appeared
  284. dwd (Not that we all need to run away)
  285. Jef has joined
  286. ralphm admin: go and reapply now!
  287. Edwin Mons ralphm :)
  288. dwd OK, I'll formally call this meeting to a close.
  289. Laura Thanks all!
  290. ralphm Thanks!
  291. Laura has left
  292. ralphm dwd: are you writing some minutes?
  293. dwd Done.
  294. dwd And sent.
  295. dwd Wrote them as we went, it seemed easier.
  296. MattJ Teach Kev that trick :)
  297. ralphm haha
  298. dwd MattJ, Kev is *way* more organized than I am about these things.
  299. ralphm Kev kept word about heckling. Much appreciated. Don't tempt him now.
  300. MattJ Heh
  301. Kev :p
  302. dwd ralphm, We could always vote Kev as Board Chair, too. As I say, he doesn't actually need to be on the Board for us to do so.
  303. ralphm heh
  304. dwd ralphm, Then he;d have all the minutes to write up...
  305. Neustradamus has joined
  306. Kev I used to write minutes to meetings before I'd attended the meetings, for my day job (before Isode).
  307. ralphm dwd: It seems that formally, our Secretary should do that in our case.
  308. dwd Can someone do the calgen.py thing? I've updated the events.xml.
  309. bear has joined
  310. bear bah
  311. admin has left
  312. ralphm bear: yay timezones!
  313. bear phone failure so I completely did not get my reminder
  314. bear did I miss it?
  315. fippo dave already sent the minutes
  316. bear k
  317. bear goes to read
  318. ralphm bear: yeah, we started about an hour ago
  319. bear don't see any emails
  320. Kev has left
  321. ralphm bear: I'd celebrate today.
  322. ralphm I see hundreds of them
  323. bear :P
  324. bear I meant for the board meeting
  325. ralphm bear: the meeting notes were sent to the members' list
  326. bear yes - figures as soon as I type "no, don't have it" my mailbox dings
  327. bear it's going to be a good day :/
  328. ralphm bear: good luck
  329. bear thanks dwd for doing the minutes
  330. SouL has left
  331. SouL has joined
  332. SouL has left
  333. Edwin Mons has left
  334. Lance has joined
  335. SouL has joined
  336. SouL has left
  337. SouL has left
  338. SouL has joined
  339. SouL has left
  340. SouL has joined
  341. Simon has left
  342. Ashley Ward has left
  343. SouL has left
  344. SouL has joined
  345. ralphm has left
  346. ralphm has left
  347. ralphm has left
  348. fsteinel has joined
  349. fsteinel has left
  350. bear has left
  351. Kev has joined
  352. Edwin Mons has joined
  353. Kev has left
  354. Kev has joined
  355. jabberjocke has joined
  356. Kev has left
  357. Kev has left
  358. dwd has left
  359. dwd has joined
  360. dwd has left
  361. dwd has joined
  362. dwd Lance, Hmm. Your server still doesn't like my certificate.
  363. dwd The dsfjdssdfsd list provides a venue for discussion of randomness in IETF protocols, for example related to updating RFC 4086.
  364. dwd Awesome list name.
  365. ralphm nice
  366. Lance their RNG appears to be biased
  367. dwd Seems left-handed, possibly.
  368. dwd has left
  369. dwd has joined
  370. Edwin Mons has left
  371. SouL has left