Wednesday, November 13, 2013
xsf@muc.xmpp.org
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XSF Discussion | Logs: http://logs.xmpp.org/xsf/ | Agenda https://trello.com/b/Dn6IQOu0/board-meetings

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[06:37:32] <fippo> alex: any reason membership voting hasn't started yet?
[06:37:49] <fippo> i'm somewhat worried that florian hasn't reapplied...
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[06:44:38] <Alex> its delayed becasue of the Wiki problems we had. I have contacted the members which have not reapplied yet, so hopefully we can start voting soon.
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[06:53:59] <fippo> ah, ok. thanks
[06:55:52] <fippo> https://blog.andyet.com/2013/11/12/why-wont-we-put-on-another-realtimeconf -- those &yets are manipulating the xmpp community
[06:56:03] *fippo likes being manipulated in that way
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[06:57:50] <fippo> it would have probably been easier to just send pie
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[07:20:58] <Simon> I'm presuming the next board meeting is next week? Who can update the calendar?
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[07:21:25] <Simon> Is this the right link: http://xmpp.org/calendar/xsf-all.ics ?
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[07:26:13] <fippo> isn't it today?
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[07:26:26] <fippo> i know there is no council today...
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[07:31:42] <Simon> I would like to meet next Wednesday, 13 November 2013 at 1630 UTC
(which is 1130 EST, 0930 MST, 0830 PST)

[07:31:43] <Simon> yep
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[16:25:14] <Laura> Just checking following messages above, is the Board meeting today or next week?
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[16:26:08] <Simon> today
[16:26:19] <Laura> Thank you
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[16:26:40] <dwd> Both, possibly. :-)
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[16:34:21] <Simon> Who is running the meeting today?
[16:34:35] <Laura> I was just about to ask the same thing, and is it happening here?
[16:34:37] <ralphm> Well, usually it would be bear
[16:34:46] <ralphm> Since he is our Chair.
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[16:36:22] <Simon> Can someone else run it - I think we have a basic agenda
[16:36:23] <Simon> 1. accept the results of the yearly meeting
2. nominate and elect the board chairperson
3. decide on the next meeting

[16:37:55] <dwd> Without knowing if Mike is standing, I don't think we can do much.
[16:38:20] <Laura> As this is my first ever meeting, I am going to suggest I am not the best person to chair today
[16:39:00] <Simon> heh - Laura - I wanted to chat with you afterwards since Bear and Peter and myself have been starting to work on the text for a new revamped XMPP website and it would be good to have your input too.
[16:39:30] <Laura> Sounds interesting
[16:40:37] <Simon> although I'm unable to send you messages right now.
[16:40:41] <Simon> laura.gill@surevine.com ?
[16:40:47] <Simon> in XMPP land?
[16:40:49] <Laura> That's me
[16:41:07] *** Simon shows as "online"
[16:42:48] <dwd> Right - in the absence of Mike, I think we can probably manage items (1) and (3) at least, and also accept nominations for Chair even if we can't realistically elect one.
[16:43:32] <dwd> So to get the rubber-stamp item out of the way first, do we accept the results of the Annual General Meeting of the XMPP Standards Foundation?
[16:43:45] <Simon> +1 to accept results. And propose that we hold the next meeting in a week if we can't do a proper one today.
[16:43:57] <dwd> Simon, One thing at a time. :-P
[16:44:13] *Simon is multi-threading.
[16:44:46] <ralphm> 0. Open the meeting. dwd is chairing this meeting. :-D
[16:44:51] <dwd> ralphm, Laura - are you both happy to accept the results (which I can dig out for you if you've not got the document to hand).
[16:45:01] <ralphm> +1
[16:45:02] <Laura> Don't feel able to accept the results of the Annual General meeting (as I haven't seen them) but this may not be needed by me?
[16:45:04] <dwd> ralphm, Ah, sorry. I've staged a coup for the duration of this meeting. ;-)
[16:45:21] <ralphm> dwd: that's fine
[16:45:33] <dwd> Laura, It's largely a formality. And you're able to abstain, it'll still carry.
[16:45:39] <Laura> Great
[16:45:52] <Laura> Would be interested to read them though (please)
[16:45:58] <dwd> One second.
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[16:46:22] <ralphm> http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/meeting-minutes/xsf-member-meeting-2013-10-29/
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[16:46:39] <dwd> ralphm, Thanks.
[16:46:50] <Laura> Thank you
[16:47:06] <dwd> FWIW, I vote to accept them.
[16:47:45] <dwd> Laura, Would you like a minute or two to read them, or are you still abstaining?
[16:48:24] <Laura> *reading now*
[16:48:56] <Laura> +1
[16:49:37] *ralphm cheers
[16:50:07] <dwd> Thanks.
[16:51:02] <dwd> So, as I say, in the absence of Mike I'm hesitant to do (2), but if there are people who are keen to stand they can make themselves known.
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[16:51:28] <dwd> I should point out for the "spectators" that there is, as far as I can tell, no requirement for the Chair to actually be a voting member of the Board.
[16:51:45] <Laura> Happy to agree to postpone that decision until the next meeting?
[16:51:47] <dwd> Though you might want to double-check that in the Bylaws. :-)
[16:51:58] <ralphm> Well, as it is, we can postpone this item as the current Chair is on the Board anyway.
[16:52:17] <ralphm> I motion we do so.
[16:52:47] <dwd> I'm happy to postpone. I'd rather know what Mike's intent is here before deciding what to do.
[16:52:57] <ralphm> indeed
[16:53:08] <dwd> Oh, wait, you motioned. I shall second, then.
[16:53:18] *dwd loves the formal lingo. ;-)
[16:53:39] *Simon motions to create some motion.
[16:53:49] <Laura> I concur.
[16:54:07] <dwd> OK.
[16:54:15] <dwd> So item (3), which is the next meeting.
[16:54:23] <ralphm> wait
[16:54:28] <dwd> Oh?
[16:54:42] <ralphm> or can we do additional things after that item
[16:54:45] <ralphm> ?
[16:54:59] <dwd> Oh, we should have an AOB at the end. COnsider that as (4).
[16:55:06] <ralphm> Cool
[16:55:13] <dwd> I also have AOB. Possibly the same AOB, actually.
[16:55:14] <ralphm> In that case. +1W
[16:55:24] <dwd> Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel?
[16:55:27] <ralphm> right
[16:55:55] <ralphm> I think we should keep this timeslot open every week
[16:56:11] <dwd> Yes, makes sense if it works for us. If it's awkward for Mike, though, we should move it.
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[16:56:33] <ralphm> sure
[16:56:39] <dwd> Laura, Simon - this time/day work for you guys?
[16:57:00] <Simon> yeah - works for me.
[16:57:15] <Laura> Works for me.
[16:57:43] <dwd> OK.
[16:57:44] <Laura> Although, I would like us to consider a video meeting at some point, when there is bigger things to discuss than the next meeting
[16:57:56] <Laura> *opens another can of worms*
[16:58:17] <dwd> Yeah, we should consider some logistics for that. It'd be nice to have a Jingle meeting, but we need a protocol written...
[16:58:26] <dwd> So, ralphm - you had some AOB?
[16:58:32] <dwd> Was it FOSDEM? :-)
[16:58:32] <ralphm> Sure, I do these things all the time. Over Hangouts.
[16:58:39] <ralphm> dwd: it wasn't FOSDEM
[16:58:42] <ralphm> so go ahead
[16:58:42] <Laura> I also use hangouts
[16:58:48] <dwd> Ah, OK. No, you go first.
[16:58:50] <Laura> Sorry, fo ahead with AOB
[16:59:02] <ralphm> I'd like to discuss what we want to do this term.
[17:00:05] <dwd> Right. So just a small topic, then?
[17:00:26] <ralphm> In the discussions leading up to the Member's meeting, as well as during the XMPP Summit, many things have been suggested as things the XSF could, should or ought to do.
[17:00:36] <Laura> How does a conversation like that happen on here?
[17:00:56] <ralphm> Let's think about this some more and have that discussion in a (near) future meeting.
[17:01:10] <ralphm> Laura: by typing, I guess.
[17:01:17] <dwd> Actually declaring a meeting specifically for this purpose (say, the one after next) might make the most sense.
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[17:01:31] <dwd> Since then interested members can also show up and suggest ideas.
[17:01:57] <Laura> Maybe that conversation (as bound to be more complex) could be a tester for video meeting?
[17:02:29] <Simon> I hear fippo is the video guy. :)
[17:02:39] <ralphm> We also briefly talked about this in last week's non-meeting, and there were some different opinions on what a/the board should do in general. Only react on what members request v.s. lead by proposing things.
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[17:03:31] <dwd> I think that some of both is required - we should be proposing things, and pushing the membership - raising the bar, as it were.
[17:03:33] <Simon> We should examine the XMPP charter to see what it says we should do. Or?
[17:03:36] <ralphm> Although I do a lot of video conferences, I think it is not a great medium for discussion.
[17:04:07] <Simon> But we also all wrote manifestos and should see what kind of commonality there is there and work towards that.
[17:04:27] <Laura> I disagree. As I am part of a distributed company, this is how I work every day and its a great way to get meetings done and decisions made
[17:04:41] <Simon> IMHO it wouldn't hurt to jointly agree on what the XSF is here for and make sure our decisions work towards that end.
[17:04:53] <dwd> Laura, Yes, but it only works for open discussion in a relatively small group.
[17:05:21] <dwd> Simon, Yes - I'm tempted to suggest we should actually work on getting a mission statement for the XSF together.
[17:05:48] <Simon> dwd - yeah something like that.
[17:06:05] <dwd> Simon, Though I don't really like mission statements as a rule, I think in this case a single statement saying "This is what the XSF does" makes sense.
[17:06:06] <ralphm> Laura: also, I don't know about Surevine, but the XSF has members from many different countries, where English is not the native language. Typing makes things easier for some people.
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[17:06:21] <Laura> I see.
[17:06:43] <Laura> I wondered if a video call for a discussion on bigger topics, with a blog summary post might be useful?
[17:06:57] <dwd> Laura, I'm all in favour of audio/video chats for focussed discussions within a smaller group, mind.
[17:07:20] <fippo> i'm working on the video stuff ;-)
[17:07:30] <ralphm> indeed, but if you want to give voice to the membership, I am inclined to say, just use a groupchat
[17:08:11] <ralphm> This has worked for this community since before its inception.
[17:08:15] <dwd> Right - aside from anything else, you get higher bandwidth with a text chat amongst that many people - nobody gets shut out of the conversation, they all can type at once.
[17:08:27] <Laura> As I said, it as just an idea. I just haven't been part of a meeting this way before so was just suggesting
[17:08:55] <ralphm> Laura: I shall have Lloyd train you then :-D
[17:09:17] <fippo> ralphm: that could be dangerous, he'll show the the jingle-capable xmpp-ftw ;-)
[17:09:51] <ralphm> fippo: there is a record of him taking suggestions from me. We'll see.
[17:10:38] <ralphm> ok, as there seems to be some consensus, I'm good with my AOB
[17:10:42] <dwd> So, as a concrete motion, shall we hold a meeting specifically on the topic of "What should the XSF do this year" in two weeks?
[17:10:51] <Laura> +1
[17:10:54] <ralphm> +1
[17:11:10] <Simon> +1. But could we not do it next week?
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[17:11:30] <Simon> Either is fine for me though - just keen to get things rolling
[17:11:57] <dwd> Simon, We could; I figured we'd want to get some of the paperwork (like electing Chairs, and possibly confirming the contiuing appointments of Alex and Peter) out of the way.
[17:12:13] <ralphm> dwd: agreed
[17:12:14] <dwd> Plus if we're inviting the members, we probably want to give a bit more notice.
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[17:12:58] <ralphm> dwd: that's actually in our by laws (section 3.4, 10 days)
[17:13:17] <dwd> OK. One more for the AOB - we need to start considering the XSFs activity in FOSDEM.
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[17:13:27] <ralphm> indeed
[17:13:43] <ralphm> There has been no confirmation of our booth, yet.
[17:14:01] <Simon> ok - so will someone update the calendar (or we move to a shared G calendar?)
[17:14:05] <dwd> ralphm, OK. Do you know when we'll find out?
[17:14:06] <ralphm> The date for this is 15 December
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[17:14:16] <dwd> Simon, I'll get the calendar sorted.
[17:14:21] <Simon> Thanks DWD
[17:14:33] <ralphm> Which is pretty short notice.
[17:14:43] <ralphm> So I think we have to start plan for the Summit
[17:15:00] <ralphm> and then have the booth sorted out later
[17:15:08] <dwd> ralphm, Right - unfortunately the Summit is probably the one that'll take less time.
[17:15:47] <ralphm> Well, we could plan things under the assumption that we'll have the same arrangement as last year.
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[17:16:25] <dwd> ralphm, Yeah, my concern is that if we look at buying in promo gear again, we can't commit until the 15th.
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[17:16:28] <ralphm> As some of us have discussed at RealtimeWeek, we'd like to make it somewhat better organised as a minimum.
[17:16:42] <dwd> ralphm, But we can get quotes, do the designs, etc.
[17:16:45] <ralphm> dwd: true
[17:17:06] <dwd> ralphm, Two years ago, I think we formed a formal Work Team to arrange the FOSDEM/Summit stuff - mostly focuessed on FOSDEM.
[17:17:21] <Simon> I remember that - worked very well
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[17:17:29] <dwd> ralphm, That was the first year we managed the Realtime Lounge. We could spin that up again, if that'd help?
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[17:18:04] <dwd> ralphm, I'm sort of assuming you'll be leading this, since you're normally our ambassador to FOSDEM as it were.
[17:18:05] <ralphm> Since our thing at FOSDEM has been called the Realtime Lounge for a few years, and discussed this with some people, we can get some help from the &yet guys regarding the branding and possibly more.
[17:18:27] <ralphm> dwd: sure
[17:19:16] <ralphm> One of the foremost issues are:
[17:19:22] <dwd> ralphm, Why don't you start assembling a team. We'll need to figure out what budget we can run to, but I'd hope we could recoup most of the cost by promo stuff as usual.
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[17:19:42] <ralphm> 1) Organizing demos
[17:19:46] <ralphm> 2) getting gear there
[17:20:13] <Laura> Suggestion: someone draft the tasks that need to be done, and at the next meeting let's assign them out?
[17:20:57] <ralphm> Laura: are you suggesting to make this a Board activity?
[17:21:20] <Laura> Is it not a Board activity? Or at least need Board input?
[17:21:22] <dwd> ralphm, Board-managed at least, I'd have thought.
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[17:21:38] <ralphm> dwd: right
[17:21:42] <dwd> ralphm, Hopefully we can get several members to help, though.
[17:21:48] <Laura> I agree
[17:22:11] <dwd> ralphm, I'm hoping Florian will lend us a hand as usual, for a start.
[17:22:22] <ralphm> Laura: I guess this ties in with the level of involvement of the Board in general. But yeah, it would be great to have more of that in this case.
[17:22:38] <ralphm> dwd: indeed. Although he doesn't seem to have reapplied for membership
[17:22:53] <dwd> But anyway - let's consider returning next week and figure out what's needed, as Laura says.
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[17:23:19] <ralphm> I'd be happy to head this, though
[17:23:21] <dwd> ralphm, I'll threaten to out him to the Heathrow security staff if he doesn't help out. ;-)
[17:23:32] <ralphm> hah
[17:23:41] <dwd> ralphm, I'm happy to help in whatever way I can, of course.
[17:24:06] <ralphm> as for the Summit, we can draft a call b
[17:24:11] <ralphm> for participation
[17:24:16] <Laura> I might be able to track him down… he is often kicking around in the coffee shop in my building
[17:24:36] <ralphm> when he's not partying, I'm sure
[17:24:40] <dwd> Oh, I assumed your office was too up-market to let him in...
[17:24:52] <ralphm> *burn*
[17:25:05] <Laura> Like, I said, he hangs in the basement :)
[17:25:32] <dwd> OK - I'm good with this, unless anyone else has anythign to add?
[17:25:40] <fippo> btw @ florian... can someone specifically poke him to reapply for membership? :-)
[17:25:40] <Laura> Happy to wrap up there
[17:25:49] <Laura> I will take that action
[17:26:03] <Laura> I am seeing him in a few weeks anyway for the XMPP meetup I am hosting
[17:26:08] <Laura> Details about to be announced
[17:26:14] <ralphm> Laura: he needs to apply today, basically
[17:26:19] <dwd> Cool.
[17:26:23] <Laura> Ahh. Tweeting him now
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[17:26:51] <Edwin Mons> Laura: when will this be?
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[17:26:58] <Edwin Mons> (the meetup)
[17:26:59] <ralphm> any other any other business?
[17:27:18] <dwd> I'm good. We can adjourn.
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[17:27:20] <Laura> Edwin, will send you details but Monday 2nd Dec
[17:27:24] *ralphm remarks the devil just appeared
[17:27:26] <dwd> (Not that we all need to run away)
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[17:27:47] <ralphm> admin: go and reapply now!
[17:27:59] <Edwin Mons> ralphm :)
[17:28:21] <dwd> OK, I'll formally call this meeting to a close.
[17:28:31] <Laura> Thanks all!
[17:28:34] <ralphm> Thanks!
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[17:28:56] <ralphm> dwd: are you writing some minutes?
[17:29:01] <dwd> Done.
[17:29:22] <dwd> And sent.
[17:29:29] <dwd> Wrote them as we went, it seemed easier.
[17:30:06] <MattJ> Teach Kev that trick :)
[17:30:10] <ralphm> haha
[17:30:31] <dwd> MattJ, Kev is *way* more organized than I am about these things.
[17:30:32] <ralphm> Kev kept word about heckling. Much appreciated. Don't tempt him now.
[17:30:54] <MattJ> Heh
[17:31:02] <Kev> :p
[17:31:03] <dwd> ralphm, We could always vote Kev as Board Chair, too. As I say, he doesn't actually need to be on the Board for us to do so.
[17:31:10] <ralphm> heh
[17:31:17] <dwd> ralphm, Then he;d have all the minutes to write up...
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[17:31:38] <Kev> I used to write minutes to meetings before I'd attended the meetings, for my day job (before Isode).
[17:33:11] <ralphm> dwd: It seems that formally, our Secretary should do that in our case.
[17:33:40] <dwd> Can someone do the calgen.py thing? I've updated the events.xml.
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[17:36:01] <bear> bah
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[17:36:53] <ralphm> bear: yay timezones!
[17:37:14] <bear> phone failure so I completely did not get my reminder
[17:37:18] <bear> did I miss it?
[17:37:43] <fippo> dave already sent the minutes
[17:37:48] <bear> k
[17:37:58] *bear goes to read
[17:38:20] <ralphm> bear: yeah, we started about an hour ago
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[17:39:17] <bear> don't see any emails
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[17:40:09] <ralphm> bear: I'd celebrate today.
[17:40:15] <ralphm> I see hundreds of them
[17:40:29] <bear> :P
[17:40:40] <bear> I meant for the board meeting
[17:40:49] <ralphm> bear: the meeting notes were sent to the members' list
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[17:41:14] <bear> yes - figures as soon as I type "no, don't have it" my mailbox dings
[17:41:21] <bear> it's going to be a good day :/
[17:41:32] <ralphm> bear: good luck
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[17:42:10] *bear thanks dwd for doing the minutes
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[22:09:01] <dwd> Lance, Hmm. Your server still doesn't like my certificate.
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[22:16:02] <dwd> The dsfjdssdfsd list provides a venue for discussion of
randomness in IETF protocols, for example related to updating RFC 4086.
[22:16:06] <dwd> Awesome list name.
[22:16:45] <ralphm> nice
[22:17:40] <Lance> their RNG appears to be biased
[22:18:08] <dwd> Seems left-handed, possibly.
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